2021 NBA Playoffs Gamethread

Not to rub it in on all the Giannis-haters who coincidentally have all clammed up since Game 7, but in a series where Giannis was getting raked over the coals for under-performing and not being skilled enough to win in the playoffs, he averaged 32-13-3 on 57% shooting, and then cleaned out the Nets on the road in a Game 7, going 40-13-5 on 15-24 from the field. People are way too focused on his shooting because its an obvious flaw, that it allows them to overreact and convince themselves that this guy isn't one of the top 3-4 players in the NBA.
I'm very interested to see how Capela matches up with him defensively over multiple games, and/or how Atlanta schemes to keep him in check. Embiid was too strong and physical for Capela, for the most part, but Giannis has a very different type of game despite being of similar overall quality, and I'm inclined to think Capela will play better going forward.

Also, the return of Budenholzer to Atlanta is a great storyline. McMillan has had an outstanding postseason, Game 2 of the Knicks series being the one biggest exception...and Coach Bud really hasn't. If the Hawks are going to make this competitive, Budenholzer is probably going to have to play his part.
 
I'm not a huge fan of the Bucks, but an NBA final 4 with no Lakers, Nets, Heat or Sixers? Is this heaven?
Seriously. Obviously I want the Hawks to win, but I'm far more OK with any of the other three teams winning instead than I am when I get to most Conference Finals most years. It's like the Hawks are Leicester City - to use an analogy I've floated before - but the other teams in contention for the Premiership are Spurs, Everton and post-Wenger Arsenal or pre-Klopp Liverpool; no Chelsea or Man City or Man Utd to be seen.
 

lovegtm

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Not to rub it in on all the Giannis-haters who coincidentally have all clammed up since Game 7, but in a series where Giannis was getting raked over the coals for under-performing and not being skilled enough to win in the playoffs, he averaged 32-13-3 on 57% shooting, and then cleaned out the Nets on the road in a Game 7, going 40-13-5 on 15-24 from the field. People are way too focused on his shooting because its an obvious flaw, that it allows them to overreact and convince themselves that this guy isn't one of the top 3-4 players in the NBA.
He played a nice game 7. He was able to, in 7 games, beat a team that was basically Kevin Durant, one-legged James Harden, and the artist formerly known as Joe Harris. If Kyrie OR Harden are healthy, that series is a sweep.

The Bucks offense repeatedly bogged down in crunch time, even in the wins, due to his glaring flaws.

He's a top-10 player, but top 3-4 seems insane honestly, given what we've now seen in 3 straight postseasons.

If your counterargument is his points-rebounds-assists line, I'd politely suggest that you put more effort into these discussions.
 

Kliq

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He played a nice game 7. He was able to, in 7 games, beat a team that was basically Kevin Durant, one-legged James Harden, and the artist formerly known as Joe Harris. If Kyrie OR Harden are healthy, that series is a sweep.

The Bucks offense repeatedly bogged down in crunch time, even in the wins, due to his glaring flaws.

He's a top-10 player, but top 3-4 seems insane honestly, given what we've now seen in 3 straight postseasons.

If your counterargument is his points-rebounds-assists line, I'd politely suggest that you put more effort into these discussions.
If Kyrie or Harden are healthy, with Durant playing at his current level, the Nets probably roll everyone in the NBA Playoffs. Giannis is not a perfect player, in fact out of all the elite-NBA players he probably has the most glaring an obvious flaw that makes him an easy target for reactionary posts, which unfortunately have been very prevalent throughout the playoffs as people overreact to a few moments in every game.

I pointed out his stat line to bring up the broader point that people might look at a few moments in crunch time (in games the Bucks lost, but conveniently not in games the Bucks won) and make judgments about Giannis that to me, seem kind of insane. Despite the fact that the main talking point in this series was that Giannis is a broken player unworthy of being labeled as one of the best players in the league, he actually played extremely well throughout the series and carried his team to victory. That might be hard for some people to admit, especially if they overreacted to his past failures, like a poor stretch in Game 5, to make inaccurate rushed judgments and summations of a player, but hey, that is the environment we live in when it comes to NBA discussion.

Giannis' lack of shooting does make him worse than say, Luka Doncic or Dame Lillard, in the final few offensive possessions of a basketball game. I don't think that disqualifies him from being considered one of the best players of the NBA. He brings so much to the table on both ends of the court besides shooting that we can't just look at his one flaw and exaggerate its impact because it can be more noticeable in end-of-game scenarios. Most of the time he dominates the game to such a degree that crunch time never exists, like he did in Game 6.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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He played a nice game 7. He was able to, in 7 games, beat a team that was basically Kevin Durant, one-legged James Harden, and the artist formerly known as Joe Harris. If Kyrie OR Harden are healthy, that series is a sweep.
The Joe Harris line was nice. Kudos. As for the bolded, the series was 2-1 when Kyrie went down and MIL did have a chance to win G1. Maybe a healthy Kyrie relieves some pressure off KD but then again, maybe a healthy Kyrie means that Jeff Green doesn't hit 7 straight 3Ps in G5.

Maybe Giannis isn't the guy anyone would pick to win a game down the stretch but he might be the #1 guy you pick right now to build a team around. One thing about Giannis - he always plays super hard. In that way, he's like a taller and longer version of RWB.

I think he's the best overall player remaining in the playoffs and I think it would be great if he got the title after staying in MIL.
 
I think he's the best overall player remaining in the playoffs and I think it would be great if he got the title after staying in MIL.
If the Bucks beat the Hawks, I'd have no problem with the bolded for the reason you've said here. But as to the non-bolded...c'mon, Trae is the best overall player remaining in the playoffs. ;)
 

Sam Ray Not

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I'm not a huge fan of the Bucks, but an NBA final 4 with no Lakers, Nets, Heat or Sixers? Is this heaven?
I still need the Suns to knock off the Ballmers to get to “heaven,” but otherwise agreed. Suns, Bucks, Hawks are all aces in my book, full of fun, likable, home-grown players.

in related news, in my (otherwise mostly wrong) NBA Playoff Predictions entry, I had Bucks over Suns 4-2 in the Finals. Seems like a pretty plausible scenario at this point?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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If the Bucks beat the Hawks, I'd have no problem with the bolded for the reason you've said here. But as to the non-bolded...c'mon, Trae is the best overall player remaining in the playoffs. ;)
Trae will have plenty of chances to show that he's the best player left. It will be super interesting to watch Trae on both ends given how long MIL is.

Can't wait to see Giannis switched onto Trae.

BTW, the Trade looks a bit different than it did say four months ago, doesn't it?

edit: speaking of the Trade, there's a report out of CLE that before ATL made the deal with DAL, ATL offered #3 to CLE for #8 if CLE would take Kent Bazemore's contract. There's a bullet dodged, if true. https://factoryofsadness.co/2021/06/19/cavs-koby-altman-remembered-trade-didnt-make/
 
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BTW, the Trade looks a bit different than it did say four months ago, doesn't it?
That it does, man - that it does. Someone on Reddit advanced the interesting theory that Luka, because he was so good straight out of the gate, actually screwed himself over by making his team too good too fast to surround him with other lottery-level draft picks; Trae, because he couldn't carry the Hawks on his own in his first year, put Schlenk in position to draft Hunter and not be tempted into a Porzingis-like trade to make the Mavs competitive immediately. And all of that aside, I'm not sure how much responsibility Luka has regarding any of the dysfunction so clearly on display in Dallas right now, but his attitude - not to mention his free throw shooting - is throwing up a few red flags that Trae's most definitely is not. In a vacuum, you would of course still prefer to have Luka to Trae as a player on your team...but these games aren't played in vacuums.

(FYI, we may even see Reddish against the Bucks; he was cleared for full practices about a week ago, so in theory he'd be available if McMillan wants to risk him. Not that he'd likely provide anything on offense, but 10-15 minutes of good wing defense wouldn't go amiss against the Bucks.)
 
There's definitely a chance that Simmons gets traded to a rather bad team this offseason, in which case there's a non-zero chance that he may live out his NBA career as a good player/bad team guy and never come closer to the Finals than he did this season. In which case yes, that pass may well define Simmons' career.
I still need the Suns to knock off the Ballmers to get to “heaven,”
Personally, given the Clippers' hideous history, I'd be happy for them to get a title if the Hawks can't. They're probably fourth on my list of the remaining four teams, but not by *that* much, and if nothing else them winning the title might knock the Lakers' sense of self-importance down a peg or two, wouldn't it?
 

dhellers

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If Kyrie or Harden are healthy, with Durant playing at his current level, the Nets probably roll everyone in the NBA Playoffs. Giannis is not a perfect player, in fact out of all the elite-NBA players he probably has the most glaring an obvious flaw that makes him an easy target for reactionary posts, which unfortunately have been very prevalent throughout the playoffs as people overreact to a few moments in every game.

I pointed out his stat line to bring up the broader point that people might look at a few moments in crunch time (in games the Bucks lost, but conveniently not in games the Bucks won) and make judgments about Giannis that to me, seem kind of insane. Despite the fact that the main talking point in this series was that Giannis is a broken player unworthy of being labeled as one of the best players in the league, he actually played extremely well throughout the series and carried his team to victory. That might be hard for some people to admit, especially if they overreacted to his past failures, like a poor stretch in Game 5, to make inaccurate rushed judgments and summations of a player, but hey, that is the environment we live in when it comes to NBA discussion.

Giannis' lack of shooting does make him worse than say, Luka Doncic or Dame Lillard, in the final few offensive possessions of a basketball game. I don't think that disqualifies him from being considered one of the best players of the NBA. He brings so much to the table on both ends of the court besides shooting that we can't just look at his one flaw and exaggerate its impact because it can be more noticeable in end-of-game scenarios. Most of the time he dominates the game to such a degree that crunch time never exists, like he did in Game 6.
Let us not forget that Kevin Garnett was a reluctant end-of-game shooter.

IOW: Middleton kind of has the Paul Pierce role -- the guy with nerve and capability to lead the charge at the end of close games.
 

Kliq

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That it does, man - that it does. Someone on Reddit advanced the interesting theory that Luka, because he was so good straight out of the gate, actually screwed himself over by making his team too good too fast to surround him with other lottery-level draft picks; Trae, because he couldn't carry the Hawks on his own in his first year, put Schlenk in position to draft Hunter and not be tempted into a Porzingis-like trade to make the Mavs competitive immediately. And all of that aside, I'm not sure how much responsibility Luka has regarding any of the dysfunction so clearly on display in Dallas right now, but his attitude - not to mention his free throw shooting - is throwing up a few red flags that Trae's most definitely is not. In a vacuum, you would of course still prefer to have Luka to Trae as a player on your team...but these games aren't played in vacuums.

(FYI, we may even see Reddish against the Bucks; he was cleared for full practices about a week ago, so in theory he'd be available if McMillan wants to risk him. Not that he'd likely provide anything on offense, but 10-15 minutes of good wing defense wouldn't go amiss against the Bucks.)
The Hawks front office has done a fabulous job putting this team together. They had a very busy off-season, acquiring Gallo and Bogdanovic (and Rondo!) which got a lot of hype in the off-season and at the start of the year, but fell off when guys got injured and the team slumped. In the playoffs, we are seeing those moves pay off. By pairing Trae with two other guys who can create shots (and have great size for perimeter players) it makes the offense much-less predictable and takes the onus off of Trae to create and be responsible on every possession. Schlenk also stole Capela from Houston in their bizarre fire sale last season, and Capela is a good fit playing with Trae (just like he was a good fit with Harden) because he is an excellent screen-and-lob guy who plays hard on defense and can protect the rim a bit.

Atlanta (pre-Schlenk) also accomplished one of the most valuable moves to do as an NBA franchise and that is find real rotation players outside of the Top 10. Collins and Huerter were excellent picks and the Celtics would have killed to have found players that good drafting later in the first round.
 

scottyno

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He played a nice game 7. He was able to, in 7 games, beat a team that was basically Kevin Durant, one-legged James Harden, and the artist formerly known as Joe Harris. If Kyrie OR Harden are healthy, that series is a sweep.

The Bucks offense repeatedly bogged down in crunch time, even in the wins, due to his glaring flaws.

He's a top-10 player, but top 3-4 seems insane honestly, given what we've now seen in 3 straight postseasons.

If your counterargument is his points-rebounds-assists line, I'd politely suggest that you put more effort into these discussions.
Yes, he beat a team that was basically Durant, compared to the Bucks team that was basically... Giannis

Holiday took 17 shots a game and shot 36% and 26% for 3, and MIddleton had 4 games where he shot 36% or worse. Giannis had as little help as Durant did.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yes, he beat a team that was basically Durant, compared to the Bucks team that was basically... Giannis

Holiday took 17 shots a game and shot 36% and 26% for 3, and MIddleton had 4 games where he shot 36% or worse. Giannis had as little help as Durant did.
And 3 of the 4 "bad" Middleton Games they lost.

Middleton also averaged 29/10/5 on .476/.448/.889 shooting in the 4 wins.
Middleton was BY FAR the best non-Giannis/KD player in this series.
 

scottyno

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And 3 of the 4 "bad" Middleton Games they lost.

Middleton also averaged 29/10/5 on .476/.448/.889 shooting in the 4 wins.
Middleton was BY FAR the best non-Giannis/KD player in this series.
Kyrie was probably better and he didn't even play 3 games. Also those Middleton win stats are massively inflated by one insane game, overall he did not have a good series.
 

Cellar-Door

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Kyrie was probably better and he didn't even play 3 games. Also those Middleton win stats are massively inflated by one insane game, overall he did not have a good series.
This is silliness...
He had 2 GREAT games, and several very good ones. He was also their best man defender and created a ton of turnovers (he got 10 steals in games 6 and 7 combined)... Middleton was very good in this series and a huge reason they won.

I mean, I don't at all see how he didn't have a better series than Kyrie. Even counting his "bad" games, he averaged... more points, more rebounds, more steals and the same assists as Kyrie, he shot a bit worse overall, but better from 3, and was a better defender.
 

scottyno

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This is silliness...
He had 2 GREAT games, and several very good ones. He was also their best man defender and created a ton of turnovers (he got 10 steals in games 6 and 7 combined)... Middleton was very good in this series and a huge reason they won.

I mean, I don't at all see how he didn't have a better series than Kyrie. Even counting his "bad" games, he averaged... more points, more rebounds, more steals and the same assists as Kyrie, he shot a bit worse overall, but better from 3, and was a better defender.
If they had lost game 7 he would have shot 36% or worse in all 4 losses while taking a total of 91 shots, there's no way you can call someone who did that in 4 of the 7 games of a 7 game series very good.

Also not sure which these very good games were, game 4 where he was mediocre or any of the 4 games where he shot horribly? 5 steals in game 7 is of course great, but if they lost that game he would have been one of the main reasons why.
 

mikeot

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I'm not a huge fan of the Bucks, but an NBA final 4 with no Lakers, Nets, Heat or Sixers? Is this heaven?
More like a watchable purgatory before the C’s new season. Lived in the ATL when the Hawks were longtime laughable, so savoring their run as small solace.
 

Ale Xander

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I remember this version of Marcus Morris. Don't miss him one iota, even with the bench wing struggles.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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Why’s sportscenter tweet “booker and Beverley appear to hit heads” like boi just say they did