2021 NBA Playoffs Gamethread
- Thread starter JohnnyTheBone
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5 point game with a couple minutes left in the half, then Middleton drains a couple 3s to stretch the lead to 11 at the break.
Giannis has been covering Harden a lot, not doing a great job of it so far.
Giannis has been covering Harden a lot, not doing a great job of it so far.
Seems like a ton of teams love forcing Harden to his right and it never seems to work
He is such an incredible offensive player. Playing at half speed doesn’t really affect his game as he isn’t a blow by guy anyway.
My brother who lives near Philly told me today about a friend who attended last night’s game. He watched Simmons shoot 20 FTs before the game. Made 16.
I’ve been to a Sixers practice. Was a few years ago but Simmons was draining jumpers and his form looked fine. Clearly almost all mental.
Sadly, it is also a sign of weakness. The Hawks are like sharks in the water, closing in on Ben.
Pleasantly surprised. I need Milwaukee to win G7 because a) fuck Brooklyn and b) I could theoretically see Atlanta knocking off Milwaukee.
Yikes: KD played 40 minutes tonight. Nash is playing with fire, but let's see how it works out.
He's averaging 31 and 13 on high 50s% shooting for the series, that's pretty damn dominating. If MIddleton or Holiday showed up much this series the Bucks would have won in 5 or 6 already
It's really hard to get a read on Giannis at this point. On one hand, he's one of the most efficient high volume scorers in the league (of the 31 players who averaged 20+ ppg this year, only Jokic, Zion and Curry had a higher eFG%). On the other hand, he's unable to create a good look in a half court set when the defense really stiffens at the end of playoff games. On one hand, he just won back to back MVPs and is occasionally physically overwhelming. On the other hand, he's clearly the second best player in this series. On one hand he won DPOY last year and was 1st team all defense for the 3rd straight year. On the other hand, he's (at best) the 4th option for the Bucks against Durant, which is ridiculous on his face because they are almost the exact same size.
His inability to hit outside shots just neuters him in the half court, and while he could still improve in that regard (he's not exactly Simmons), he won't be getting any better this year. Even if improvement is a high possibility down the line, this is the year for him and the Bucks to break through. It just doesn't seem possibility that we'll ever get this many injuries to stars ever again.
His inability to hit outside shots just neuters him in the half court, and while he could still improve in that regard (he's not exactly Simmons), he won't be getting any better this year. Even if improvement is a high possibility down the line, this is the year for him and the Bucks to break through. It just doesn't seem possibility that we'll ever get this many injuries to stars ever again.
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I'll take this one--his defensive value is somewhat fake; he's definitely good, but it's very reputation-based, and he's not at the level of the very top guys either on the perimeter or in the interior. I'd take Simmons over him and wouldn't think twice. He's good as a free safety, but I'm not sure he's better than, say, Tatum in that role.
On offense, the numbers are good and efficient. However, not all efficient points are created equal. Giannis gets a ton of his in transition and semi-transition situations. He definitely adds value there, and those points count.
The problem is that in a locked-in halfcourt situation, you can load up on him. He doesn't force doubles like Embiid--you can just shade his way and build a wall. He's also not nearly the passer you need to be to take advantage of those shifting defenses.
This results in what we observe in halfcourt situations where the defense is locked in: he's constantly getting forced into bad shots, or else passing to teammates in ways that don't generate an advantage for them. If you watch the games, a ton of Jrue and Middleton's underperformance is coming from Giannis throwing them grenades with 8 seconds or whatever on the shot clock. That keeps his efficiency good, but doesn't lead to efficient team offense in the halfcourt.
Agreed on the offense (especially when he tosses end of shot clock decisions to Holiday and Middleton who are often not up to it), although it's one of the things I'm really bullish on him in the future - he has a TON of room to grow, and he doesn't even need to develop a good 3 point shot for it to work. If he became a decent mid-range shooter, it would open up a lot for him in the half-court, even in the playoffs. Of course, that does nothing for Milwaukee this year.
Defensively, he's not the league's best on ball defender but he is absolutely elite off the ball. Tatum isn't even in the same conversation (especially as the Tatum's offensive responsibilities have increased). It's not just reputation, although both he and the Bucks took a slight step back this year defensively. The 2019 and 2020 Bucks were first in defensive rating, and Giannis was the fulcrum for that. He led the league in DPM in 2019 and 2020, and he led the league in defensive win shares in 2020 (he was 3rd and 7th in those rankings this year, at least in part due to missed time). When both the voters and the stats say he's 1st team, I'm inclined to believe it. In today's switch everything defense, there may be more value in being elite off the ball anyway. Durant ripping apart the Bucks despite the latter having two 1st team all-defense guys just shows that Durant is the best player in the league, and great defense beats great offense.
I might take Simmons over Giannis defensively as well. Simmons has defensive versatility that is basically unmatched in modern history, especially because he isn't weighed down by things like offense or being playable in the closing minutes of tight games. However, it's worth remembering that wings and guards will always look better defensively when there is an elite rim protector behind them. It's a different conversation entirely, but I think it's somewhat ironic that a scenario in which Simmons is maximized offensively (when he's a point center with greater offensive responsibility), his defensive utility would suffer greatly.
Defensively, he's not the league's best on ball defender but he is absolutely elite off the ball. Tatum isn't even in the same conversation (especially as the Tatum's offensive responsibilities have increased). It's not just reputation, although both he and the Bucks took a slight step back this year defensively. The 2019 and 2020 Bucks were first in defensive rating, and Giannis was the fulcrum for that. He led the league in DPM in 2019 and 2020, and he led the league in defensive win shares in 2020 (he was 3rd and 7th in those rankings this year, at least in part due to missed time). When both the voters and the stats say he's 1st team, I'm inclined to believe it. In today's switch everything defense, there may be more value in being elite off the ball anyway. Durant ripping apart the Bucks despite the latter having two 1st team all-defense guys just shows that Durant is the best player in the league, and great defense beats great offense.
I might take Simmons over Giannis defensively as well. Simmons has defensive versatility that is basically unmatched in modern history, especially because he isn't weighed down by things like offense or being playable in the closing minutes of tight games. However, it's worth remembering that wings and guards will always look better defensively when there is an elite rim protector behind them. It's a different conversation entirely, but I think it's somewhat ironic that a scenario in which Simmons is maximized offensively (when he's a point center with greater offensive responsibility), his defensive utility would suffer greatly.
He's 27 next year and has known about this room to grow for the past couple seasons, particularly after playoff disappointments.
What makes you optimistic that he will be able to learn to shoot from the mid-range when he's been trying to add that to his game for 2-3 years and has very little touch?
For a lot of players (especially players who came into the league as raw as Giannis), 27 is the beginning of their prime, not the end. I don't think he'll ever be Kevin Garnett, but it's not unreasonable that a 26 year old two time MVP who has improved exponentially since coming into the league isn't done growing (skill-wise). It's not always a straight line and sometimes it takes more than a couple of years, and maybe the answer is instead of a mid-range shot he develops some real post moves (he's got the length and athleticism to make any hook shot or fadeaway unguardable). Deciding that he's a finished product at age 26 doesn't seem right here.
Prime is usually when players use the skills they have developed before the physical starts to go. Guys don't usually add a ton then (although there are exceptions).
He's been working hard on adding that midranger since 2018-2019 (I follow Giannis reasonably closely), and it's still not anywhere close. His FT shooting has regressed somewhat, his 3 is stalled out, and his shot seems pretty broken to the eye test. Not sure why someone would expect him to add that at this point.
I could see him really going into the lab and adding some post moves, but that's non-trivial, and he's shown very, very little growth in any aspect of his offensive game for 2-3 years now.
When I'm predicting whether guys will improve going forward, I usually like to look at whether they've improved in the recent past and how much, and Giannis really hasn't at all.
They could definitely win the title this year, which is completely bonkers. I also admit to being surprised that no one has been consistently able to exploit Trae yet, and I don't think Milwaukee will be able to either, if that's the opponent.
I think the Hawks match up better with the Bucks than they do the Sixers, if only because Embiid does more to bully teams in the paint offensively than Giannis does. And they probably match up better with a hobbled Nets team as well, simply because the Nets don't play great defense. So if we can escape with a win tonight (or on Sunday)...it really could be on.
As for Trae, he seems to be more intelligent and committed on defense than many people give him credit for. He's obviously too small to ever be more than a mediocre defender, but he's got good hands and a good basketball IQ, and particularly now that he's fully committed in the playoffs, he's getting steals and putting himself in the right places more often than not. That said, it is bonkers that the Sixers couldn't exploit Trae and Lou Williams playing together during the fourth quarter in Game 5.
As long as Maxey is playing like this, Doc should just leave Simmons stapled to the bench, shouldn't he?
LouWill and Gallinari have started out ICE COLD. Hawks need something from one or both those guys to close this out.
Yeah the Hawks may want to cover Curry, especially with Simmons throwing a 2-footer over the other side of the rim
Cassell dancing around the sideline and yelling at refs like he’s already a head coach. He’d be a great pick for the Cs.
Both are still scoreless, midway through the third quarter. JFC. Talk about coming up small in a big moment. Bogdanovic and Collins aren't covering themselves in glory, either.
