2021 Golf Thread

FL4WL3SS

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Andy Brickley's potty mouth
Awesome thanks guys I appreciate the guidance! It’s a two day tourney and I’m playing a practice round today. And yes, they have my GHIN. I was pleasantly surprised to see my 20.7 wasn’t the highest!
We start our annual member/member tournament today as well (best tournament of the year). Good luck in yours!

I'm trying not to get too drunk this year, me and my partner are one of the top favorites to win. I'll probably be drunk by 10am.
 

dhappy42

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Oct 27, 2013
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So... no single-length irons players here?

I DIY/custom-built a set using old Titleist forged iron heads that I'm reasonably satisfied with. (If I knew more about shafts, I'd have tipped them differently to increase/lower ball flight.) I'm wondering whether to buy a used set of one-length Cobra F7s or F8s.
 

jercra

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We start our annual member/member tournament today as well (best tournament of the year). Good luck in yours!

I'm trying not to get too drunk this year, me and my partner are one of the top favorites to win. I'll probably be drunk by 10am.
Awesome! Good luck both with the golf and with the drinking. I'm playing in the same Member/Guest I play in every year out in Portland, Or. It starts a week from today and we have the same concerns. We're coming in with the highest combined handicap in the champ flight so we've got very good chance at winning, but all drinks are free for 3 days and we've been known to drink ourselves out of the competition in years past. Going to try to keep it together this year, but hope springs eternal and all that.
 

Lupe Whalewatch

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Awesome! Good luck both with the golf and with the drinking. I'm playing in the same Member/Guest I play in every year out in Portland, Or. It starts a week from today and we have the same concerns. We're coming in with the highest combined handicap in the champ flight so we've got very good chance at winning, but all drinks are free for 3 days and we've been known to drink ourselves out of the competition in years past. Going to try to keep it together this year, but hope springs eternal and all that.
That was our exact situation for the 3 day at Hyannisport Club a few weeks back..highest handicap in champ flight worked to our advantage out of the gates-we were leading after 2 days, but totally collapsed on day 3. Its always the absolute highlight of the summer, but man its a lot of golf for me.
 

jercra

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That was our exact situation for the 3 day at Hyannisport Club a few weeks back..highest handicap in champ flight worked to our advantage out of the gates-we were leading after 2 days, but totally collapsed on day 3. Its always the absolute highlight of the summer, but man its a lot of golf for me.
That will not be an issue for me. I'll play 90 holes in a weekend fairly frequently. I should be much better than I am.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Andy Brickley's potty mouth
Good start. We won the horse race and like $1.5k each. Started drinking at 8am and didn't stop until 10pm. Today is ouch.

We won our flight on the 4th hole after I pumped it into the fescue, my partner popped it out to 15ft, and I made the downhill slider for birdie with 50 people around the green. Then we played the finals on 18 where the clubhouse overlooks the entire hole with like 150 people watching. Pretty fun.
 

jercra

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Good start. We won the horse race and like $1.5k each. Started drinking at 8am and didn't stop until 10pm. Today is ouch.

We won our flight on the 4th hole after I pumped it into the fescue, my partner popped it out to 15ft, and I made the downhill slider for birdie with 50 people around the green. Then we played the finals on 18 where the clubhouse overlooks the entire hole with like 150 people watching. Pretty fun.
Congrats! That sounds awesome. So is it all over or was that just day 1?
 

jercra

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Day 1 in the books. Day 2 in the books. Don't ask about day 2. Fireball shots got us
Oh shit. That happened to us a few years ago too. My partner ordered 2 fireball shots (free and free pour, so large) and then told me they were both for me. I believe I went double, double, triple on the next 3 holes and we finished out of the money by one or two strokes. You're young. You'll learn someday too
 

FL4WL3SS

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Oh shit. That happened to us a few years ago too. My partner ordered 2 fireball shots (free and free pour, so large) and then told me they were both for me. I believe I went double, double, triple on the next 3 holes and we finished out of the money by one or two strokes. You're young. You'll learn someday too
I NEVER do shots, but we got paired up with buddies and just went H.A.M

I ain't mad
 

Phragle

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I’m looking at buying new single-length irons. By “new” I mean new to me. I have no qualms about buying 2nd-hand clubs. As far as I know, the only major club-maker that offers them is Cobra. Anyone here play them?
I think Edel also makes single length irons

So... no single-length irons players here?

I DIY/custom-built a set using old Titleist forged iron heads that I'm reasonably satisfied with. (If I knew more about shafts, I'd have tipped them differently to increase/lower ball flight.) I'm wondering whether to buy a used set of one-length Cobra F7s or F8s.
What's the question about shafts? You can do that, but it's easier to adjust the trajectory w loft
 

jercra

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I think Edel also makes single length irons


What's the question about shafts? You can do that, but it's easier to adjust the trajectory w loft
But it's easier to control spin with shaft selection. 6k RPM with a 10* launch angle will be much, much worse than 2k RPM and 16* launch, assuming clubhead speed remains constant.
 

dhappy42

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Oct 27, 2013
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I think Edel also makes single length irons
Yes, but they’re relatively rare. And expensive.

What's the question about shafts? You can do that, but it's easier to adjust the trajectory w loft
When I built the one-length Titleist set, I used the same shaft in every iron, from 4 iron to gap wedge. If I knew more about how shafts — flex, kick-points, etc. — affect ball flight, I’d adjust to increase the trajectory of the 4 and 5 irons and lower it in the wedges, like Cobra has done with their one-length F8s and F9s.

Another thing I’d do differently is lower the center-of-gravity of the 4-5 irons by adding weight to the soles of the iron heads instead of the hosels and backs. And the reverse for the wedges. I’d remove weight from soles instead of evenly from the perimeter of the club head to raise the COG. Tweaks, basically.

I’m pretty satisfied with how the DIY one-length Titleist set turned out. If my swing speed was higher, the 4-5 iron ball flight wouldn’t be an issue. The ballooning wedges don’t bother me and would be relatively easy to fix with loft adjustments.

Edit: if anyone is interested, here are the specs:

Titleist 804.OS forged heads
True Temper Dynalite Gold XP shafts (high-launch)
37” long (original 7-iron length)
63* lie
All club heads weighted to 275 grams (add lead or grind off excess weight)

4 iron - 24*
5 iron - 28*
6 iron - 32*
7 iron - 36*
8 iron - 40*
9 iron - 44*
PW - 48*
GW - 52*

Last time I ranged them, I got about 10-yards of distance gapping, from 100 yards (GW) to 170 yards (4 iron.)
 
Last edited:

voidfunkt

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Gotta admit I dont get the one length shaft thing at all. I dont want a 4-iron that is as short as my 9 (pr one of my wedges) or a 9 as long as my 4. I can see it making some sense in tiers like 4-5-6 same length, 7-8-9 same length.

What are people actually trying to accomplish doing this?
 

jercra

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Gotta admit I dont get the one length shaft thing at all. I dont want a 4-iron that is as short as my 9 (pr one of my wedges) or a 9 as long as my 4. I can see it making some sense in tiers like 4-5-6 same length, 7-8-9 same length.

What are people actually trying to accomplish doing this?
The idea is that you can make exactly the same swing with exactly the same stance with every club. You simply let loft change the distance of your shots.
 

dhappy42

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Oct 27, 2013
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Gotta admit I dont get the one length shaft thing at all. I dont want a 4-iron that is as short as my 9 (pr one of my wedges) or a 9 as long as my 4. I can see it making some sense in tiers like 4-5-6 same length, 7-8-9 same length.

What are people actually trying to accomplish doing this?
The idea is that you can make exactly the same swing with exactly the same stance with every club. You simply let loft change the distance of your shots.
I don’t get the reason for multiple-length irons. Why use different stance setups and swings for every club? Simplify. If you can hit your 7-iron well, then you’ll hit your 4 iron and wedges well too.*

Bobby Jones played one-length clubs in the ‘30s. Moe “Best Ballstriker Ever” Norman played one-length irons.

The only reason NOT to use single-length clubs is that most golfers have learned on variable-length clubs and it can be hard to unlearn them. IMO, all beginners (and most duffers) would benefit from single-length irons.

I think variable-length irons started as a way for golf club manufacturers to market longer distances. You can make any club hit farther by lengthening it’s shaft. That’s why today’s 5 irons have the shaft-length and loft of a 1970s-era 3 irons. Loft creep. And why today’s PWs are like old 8 irons making gap wedges a thing. It’s a lot easier to measure and sell distance than accuracy.

https://golficity.com/how-the-golf-equipment-companies-are-scamming-you/

*Assuming you use the same swing and your swing speed is high enough to get a 4 iron in the air. My sand and lob wedges are shorter, standard lengths, because (1) I haven’t had the time to lengthen them and (2) I swing them differently from my irons anyway — inside 100 yards, green-side and from sand. I never use a full swing with my 60* wedge.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I haven't tried it yet, but I think I'm a believer in same length irons.

For me, I would probably keep my 7, 8, 9 and wedges the same as they are now (normal length), but make my 4, 5 and 6 irons equal to my 7 iron. I've gotten so good at hitting my higher loft irons that I wouldn't want to mess with them, but with my 4,5,6, I struggle with the setup, the address and striking the ball clean like I do my 7.

Yesterday, I took my 13 year old out (he's about a year into the game, and just started breaking 100 from the whites, about 6,500 yards). We paired up with the junior club champ (he's 17 years old, and a +1 handicap) and his father (who is a bad 18 handicap). My son stuck a 4 hybrid to 1 foot below the hole on the par 3 that was playing about 175-180, and made his first ever birdie at our course from the white tees. He was sooooo excited. I was so exhausted (it was my 33rd hole of the day yesterday), but I got him on video making the putt.

That shit is what the sport is all about. Just a great moment to share with my son.
 
Yesterday, I took my 13 year old out (he's about a year into the game, and just started breaking 100 from the whites, about 6,500 yards). We paired up with the junior club champ (he's 17 years old, and a +1 handicap) and his father (who is a bad 18 handicap). My son stuck a 4 hybrid to 1 foot below the hole on the par 3 that was playing about 175-180, and made his first ever birdie at our course from the white tees. He was sooooo excited. I was so exhausted (it was my 33rd hole of the day yesterday), but I got him on video making the putt.

That shit is what the sport is all about. Just a great moment to share with my son.
That's really great. (Would you believe that when I was a kid I actually made my first eagle before I ever made my first birdie?)
 

Deathofthebambino

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That's really great. (Would you believe that when I was a kid I actually made my first eagle before I ever made my first birdie?)
Oh I believe it. I did the same, except my eagle was an ace. I've probably told the story before. I was probably on a course for the 10th time in my life, a 9 hole course with a 201 yard par 3. I hit an awful 3 wood worm burner that landed and rolled probably 70 yards up into the cup. The worst hole-in-one you've ever seen, but the 4 guys on the green (they waive you on the par 3's there to speed up play), the 3 guys I was with and the 8 other guys who ran over from other tee boxes, all thought it was awesome. I didn't really get to enjoy it, because I just assumed it must happen all the time...

25 years later, and I've hit one more, and never seen another in my group. I've learned they definitely don't happen all the time.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Oh I believe it. I did the same, except my eagle was an ace. I've probably told the story before. I was probably on a course for the 10th time in my life, a 9 hole course with a 201 yard par 3. I hit an awful 3 wood worm burner that landed and rolled probably 70 yards up into the cup. The worst hole-in-one you've ever seen, but the 4 guys on the green (they waive you on the par 3's there to speed up play), the 3 guys I was with and the 8 other guys who ran over from other tee boxes, all thought it was awesome. I didn't really get to enjoy it, because I just assumed it must happen all the time...

25 years later, and I've hit one more, and never seen another in my group. I've learned they definitely don't happen all the time.
Hah. That is similar to my only ace. It was an unusually mild day in December, probably 2000? 2001? I decided to bag out of work and get on at the local Muni. As I checked in, I was told that if I hurried I could start at 10, and hop on with a three that was just finishing 9. The 14th hole is a downhill, over water 150 yard or so hole. Much like I had been doing much of the round to that point I skulled one that barely cleared the water, hit the bank in front of the green, and curled gently in. Of course, when I tell it to others, it is I hit a 9 iron (I hit a 7) to 10 feet past the hole and spun it back in.
Fortunately because of the mishmash grouping, I was exempt from buying. On the natural 5th hole, a short downhill par 3 that probably plays 95-100 yards, I hit a ball that was all over the flag. On its way down I was thinking "no way". I was right, I was about 20 yards long..At that point, though, I was playing alone, so probably better I didn't jar it.
 

Phragle

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But it's easier to control spin with shaft selection. 6k RPM with a 10* launch angle will be much, much worse than 2k RPM and 16* launch, assuming clubhead speed remains constant.
Well spin is mostly created by dynamic loft in irons. In drivers gear effect comes into play. Of course w a driver I'd like to have a high launch w low spin, but w a wedge I would want the opposite. A softer shaft will increase dynamic loft so long as we're talking about a player that loads the shaft. Lofting a head up will do the same thing, but there will be more degrees of loft to play with, but it also increases static loft -- ie the player doesn't have to load the shaft at all to increase launch.

Yes, but they’re relatively rare. And expensive.
Yeah maybe but it's worth looking. There was a set at GW in danvers last year. It could still be there. You could also check ebay.

When I built the one-length Titleist set, I used the same shaft in every iron, from 4 iron to gap wedge. If I knew more about how shafts — flex, kick-points, etc. — affect ball flight, I’d adjust to increase the trajectory of the 4 and 5 irons and lower it in the wedges, like Cobra has done with their one-length F8s and F9s.

Another thing I’d do differently is lower the center-of-gravity of the 4-5 irons by adding weight to the soles of the iron heads instead of the hosels and backs. And the reverse for the wedges. I’d remove weight from soles instead of evenly from the perimeter of the club head to raise the COG. Tweaks, basically.

I’m pretty satisfied with how the DIY one-length Titleist set turned out. If my swing speed was higher, the 4-5 iron ball flight wouldn’t be an issue. The ballooning wedges don’t bother me and would be relatively easy to fix with loft adjustments.

Edit: if anyone is interested, here are the specs:

Titleist 804.OS forged heads
True Temper Dynalite Gold XP shafts (high-launch)
37” long (original 7-iron length)
63* lie
All club heads weighted to 275 grams (add lead or grind off excess weight)

4 iron - 24*
5 iron - 28*
6 iron - 32*
7 iron - 36*
8 iron - 40*
9 iron - 44*
PW - 48*
GW - 52*

Last time I ranged them, I got about 10-yards of distance gapping, from 100 yards (GW) to 170 yards (4 iron.)
Right. Well this might be a good question to post on Golf WRX. I might be able to help, but there are some wizards there that would help a lot more.

If I'm understanding right, you're in a bit of a pickle. I don't think you can loft your way way out of it. If you tried the loft route, then your gaps would be aven smaller. So that's out. I can only think of two other things that may help. Cobra's lie angles get progressively more upright -- the opposite of standard length irons. From what I understand it's because people swing their lower lofted irons harder, thus creating more toe down deflection. A proper lie angle would help you get more weight under the ball -- not to mention more accuracy.

The other thing, is the shaft. Youre using 8 taper tip 7-iron shafts?
 

BaseballJones

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I nearly got my first ace on Friday. Short hole - just 153 yards - but I stuck it three feet past the hole, right on line, and drew it back to eight inches.

Close, but no cigar.

I loved reading @Deathofthebambino 's story. My first birdie was as a 12-year old. 265 yard par four, obviously on a beginner's course. Driver, three wood, eight foot downhill putt for birdie. Was pretty cool. I'm super happy for you DOTB and your son. Pretty awesome stuff.
 

dhappy42

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Oct 27, 2013
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...Right. Well this might be a good question to post on Golf WRX. I might be able to help, but there are some wizards there that would help a lot more.

If I'm understanding right, you're in a bit of a pickle. I don't think you can loft your way way out of it. If you tried the loft route, then your gaps would be aven smaller. So that's out. I can only think of two other things that may help. Cobra's lie angles get progressively more upright -- the opposite of standard length irons. From what I understand it's because people swing their lower lofted irons harder, thus creating more toe down deflection. A proper lie angle would help you get more weight under the ball -- not to mention more accuracy.
I think I'm done tinkering with the custom-built one-length set and ready to buy a used set of Cobra F7s or F8s. But If I were to keep tinkering, to increase the trajectory of the 4 and 5 irons, I'd change the shafts and move weight from the middle of the club back to the sole. The high flight of the 9 iron and PW don't bother me. (The 52* Vokey wedge flies fine as it is.) I'm not going to mess with the lies, because I don't think I swing the "long" irons any harder than the "short" ones. That's one reason I'm leaning towards the older F7s.

The short-term solution to the low-trajectory 4 and 5 irons is a 9 wood or a hybrid.

The other thing, is the shaft. Youre using 8 taper tip 7-iron shafts?
True Temper Dynalite Gold XP. All 37" parallel tip, IIRC. I didn't really understand what I was doing with regard to shafts. Just wanted eight of the same thing, preferably high-launching because I anticipated the low-launch angle problem with the 4 and 5 irons.
 

Phragle

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I think I'm done tinkering with the custom-built one-length set and ready to buy a used set of Cobra F7s or F8s. But If I were to keep tinkering, to increase the trajectory of the 4 and 5 irons, I'd change the shafts and move weight from the middle of the club back to the sole. The high flight of the 9 iron and PW don't bother me. (The 52* Vokey wedge flies fine as it is.) I'm not going to mess with the lies, because I don't think I swing the "long" irons any harder than the "short" ones. That's one reason I'm leaning towards the older F7s.

The short-term solution to the low-trajectory 4 and 5 irons is a 9 wood or a hybrid.
Yeah I would imagine a factory made one length set would have progressive faces to help increase the ball speed and height in the long irons. I know cobra used to make one length utility irons. They had a 3-4 and a 4-5 I think. Really hot.

So if you're not gonna continue messing w the Titleist, the only move is to try some cobras yea?

True Temper Dynalite Gold XP. All 37" parallel tip, IIRC. I didn't really understand what I was doing with regard to shafts. Just wanted eight of the same thing, preferably high-launching because I anticipated the low-launch angle problem with the 4 and 5 irons.
You cut them to 37 yeah? Usually parallel shafts come in long blanks. They're shit for normal clubs, but it's a savvy move using them in one lengths.
 

Koufax

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I'm a 24 handicap looking to improve my game. I went to a True Spec golf fitting - probably not their full effort, a 1-hour episode at my club. The fitter said that my driver, woods and wedges were fine, but he recommended new irons. He settled on Callaway Apex DCB 21 irons with Oban OI-Series TR 73 02-03 shafts. The hitch - the total cost was $300 per stick. I liked the feel of this club but I can't help wondering if I can't replicate the result by getting off-the-shelf Apex DCBs with a graphite shaft. Callaway uses UST Mamiya Recoil Dart 65 shafts and charges $200 per stick.

Thoughts? Recommendations?

Edit - callaway price corrected
 
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dhappy42

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Oct 27, 2013
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Yeah I would imagine a factory made one length set would have progressive faces to help increase the ball speed and height in the long irons. I know cobra used to make one length utility irons. They had a 3-4 and a 4-5 I think. Really hot.
Cobra makes muscle-back one-length utility irons in 3-4-5 and hybrids in 3-4-5. The hybrids, at 37.5" with fairway-wood-sized heads must be odd to play.

So if you're not gonna continue messing w the Titleist, the only move is to try some cobras yea?
Yep. Have a bid in for some F7s, 5-GW.

You cut them to 37 yeah? Usually parallel shafts come in long blanks. They're shit for normal clubs, but it's a savvy move using them in one lengths.
Yes, but I cut the shafts to 37" from the grip end. I probably should have cut some from the tip end. Or progressively tipped the short irons more than the long irons. Tipping the 9-P-G would make them play stiffer and slightly lower ball flight, right?
 

kenneycb

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I'm a 24 handicap looking to improve my game. I went to a True Spec golf fitting - probably not their full effort, a 1-hour episode at my club. The fitter said that my driver, woods and wedges were fine, but he recommended new irons. He settled on Callaway Apex DCB 21 irons with Oban OI-Series TR 73 02-03 shafts. The hitch - the total cost was $300 per stick. I liked the feel of this club but I can't help wondering if I can't replicate the result by getting off-the-shelf Apex DCBs with a graphite shaft. Callaway uses UST Mamiya Recoil Dart 65 shafts and charges $185 per stick.

Thoughts? Recommendations?
I would spend the money on lessons first then get another fitting when your swing is in a presumably better state. Fitted clubs help but they’re only a tool and a tool is only as good as the person using it. If you’re a 24, you have bigger problems than your clubs.
 

Koufax

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You're quite right. I'm doing that too. At the start of the year I couldn't hit my irons at all and felt I needed something different. Lately I've started to hit them OK, but the ones that the fitter put together were noticeably different and produced more spin. But of course the biggest problem is the carpenter, not the tools.
 

kenneycb

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My concern would be you spend a ton of money, you make some more tweaks to your swing (you’re a 24 so you likely need more than tweaks) and then your clubs aren’t as good for your new swing but you’re out 4 figures. As opposed to waiting until you feel at a steady-ish state and then getting the fitting.
 

FL4WL3SS

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I'm a 24 handicap looking to improve my game. I went to a True Spec golf fitting - probably not their full effort, a 1-hour episode at my club. The fitter said that my driver, woods and wedges were fine, but he recommended new irons. He settled on Callaway Apex DCB 21 irons with Oban OI-Series TR 73 02-03 shafts. The hitch - the total cost was $300 per stick. I liked the feel of this club but I can't help wondering if I can't replicate the result by getting off-the-shelf Apex DCBs with a graphite shaft. Callaway uses UST Mamiya Recoil Dart 65 shafts and charges $200 per stick.

Thoughts? Recommendations?

Edit - callaway price corrected
24 handicaps should not be buying a $3k set. Those shafts are awesome, but they are premium aftermarket shafts. Not sure why they couldn't have fit you into some True Temper (Dynamic Gold or Project X). It's kind of crazy to me that you benefited enough from aftermarket shafts to make the price worth it. Seems like a money grab.

Edit: looks like the OI series are made for slower swing speeds (sr, jr, ladies). Do NOT pay premium, you will not benefit from shaft tech as much as a high swing speed player. The stock senior shafts should be fine. Just my $.02
 

Phragle

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I'm a 24 handicap looking to improve my game. I went to a True Spec golf fitting - probably not their full effort, a 1-hour episode at my club. The fitter said that my driver, woods and wedges were fine, but he recommended new irons. He settled on Callaway Apex DCB 21 irons with Oban OI-Series TR 73 02-03 shafts. The hitch - the total cost was $300 per stick. I liked the feel of this club but I can't help wondering if I can't replicate the result by getting off-the-shelf Apex DCBs with a graphite shaft. Callaway uses UST Mamiya Recoil Dart 65 shafts and charges $200 per stick.

Thoughts? Recommendations?

Edit - callaway price corrected
I'd be more concerned w what he fit you for length, lie, and grip size. Oban is code for expensive, but for someone getting fit for a 70g regular flex shaft, the brand and bend profile are nearly irrelevant. There just isn't enough force being put through the shaft. The Oban's also parallel tip, a shaft design for manufacturers to pump out cheap clubs, not the way to build a high end fitted set. A properly fit club can make a big difference, but it's especially true if the previous set is a poor fit.

I'd say stick with the DCB and the other specs they gave you, but forget the oban shaft. Any store w a fitting cart should be able to have you try a Dart 65 or even better a Steelfiber i70 cw. Or just tell True Spec fitter you don't want to spend 100 per shaft on a parallel iron shaft. You wouldn't be the first one

Yes, but I cut the shafts to 37" from the grip end. I probably should have cut some from the tip end. Or progressively tipped the short irons more than the long irons. Tipping the 9-P-G would make them play stiffer and slightly lower ball flight, right?
Yeah I'd have to look up the specs but almost every parallel tip shaft is a 41-42" blank and is designed to be tip trimmed a certain amount based on the head weight. If you didn't tip trim then then they're essentially soft stepped 4-5 times and will play well into the regular flex zone. They could be too soft even if you got the desired height out of your long irons. And yes generally tipping a shaft makes it stiffer and thus lower launching
 

Koufax

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I don't think he spent any time on length, lie or grip size. I'm most concerned about lie. I have a feeling that my current irons are not correct for me - the tip of the clubs seems to be up in the air at address. I should get that figured out before ordering clubs, for sure.
 

jercra

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I don't think he spent any time on length, lie or grip size. I'm most concerned about lie. I have a feeling that my current irons are not correct for me - the tip of the clubs seems to be up in the air at address. I should get that figured out before ordering clubs, for sure.
You can buy a lie board on Amazon for like $8. Get the tape too and take it to the range. Hit 59 balls with different irons and have a much better fitting than you'll get from a fitter. Then go get your irons bent for around $100.

On the new clubs, I'm generally in agreement with the others that you don't need Oban shafts. They make amazing shafts, but it won't matter a bit on a skull, a chunk, a pull or a block slice. I will say, though, that I disagree that it's the plumber and not the tools. If you're playing a very old set of clubs, you are doing yourself a huge disservice. Get a 2 year old set from eBay or 2nd swing with some graphite, regular flex shafts. They should cost less than $500 and will improve your game more than you might think. Keep up with the lessons, but don't think that modern club tech won't knock multiple strokes off of your game. If anything, high handicappers benefit from club tech way more than low caps.
 

ManicCompression

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On the new clubs, I'm generally in agreement with the others that you don't need Oban shafts. They make amazing shafts, but it won't matter a bit on a skull, a chunk, a pull or a block slice. I will say, though, that I disagree that it's the plumber and not the tools. If you're playing a very old set of clubs, you are doing yourself a huge disservice. Get a 2 year old set from eBay or 2nd swing with some graphite, regular flex shafts. They should cost less than $500 and will improve your game more than you might think. Keep up with the lessons, but don't think that modern club tech won't knock multiple strokes off of your game. If anything, high handicappers benefit from club tech way more than low caps.
Co-sign all of this. Unless you have a ton of expendable income or golf is a priority that you don't mind spending the extra $$ on - and I wish that were the case for me - a slightly used set of nice clubs is the way to go. Golf technology has drastically improved since the late 90s but I feel like the difference between 2018 clubs and 2021 clubs is marginal in the grand scheme of things. You should have your measurements from TrueSpec. I'd figure out the kind of brand/clubs you like or try to hit some clubs at Roger Dunn/Golf Galaxy, then find a used set online in your measurements and save yourself a ton of money while upgrading to superior equipment. I did that with my TaylorMade irons years ago and it was one of the best investments I've ever made. Same with a SIM driver I recently found. I'm a 9HC and don't get to play as much as I like, so slightly used clubs let me straddle feeling like I'm maximizing my game but not wasting money. The $600-$800 difference between new and used clubs is about a years worth of rounds for me.

You will definitely see improvements if you invest in one of the newer, more forgiving irons, I just don't think it needs to be fresh off the shelf. eBay has an endless supply of awesome equipment that you can get a deal on and in whatever kind of specs you need.
 

Koufax

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I've bought used clubs in the past and have no compunction about it. However, the fitter found a new club for me that I think will make a difference, I don't want to start over and I have the money to buy new.

I'm sold on not getting the Oban shafts. I need to figure out the right flex and lie.

The Obans were apparently midway between senior and regular flex, which is about right for my swing speed (84 with the driver). I expect my swing speed to decline as I age (I'm 73 now) despite my efforts to the contrary, so maybe the time has arrived for senior flex. As for lie angle, I'm 5'9" with long arms, and think a -1 lie angle is what I need. I'm going to stop by the PGA Superstore in Peabody this afternoon to see if they can provide some guidance.

The comment above about getting clubs bent makes me comfortable about taking and educated guess about lie and adjusting afterwards if need be. FWIW, my biggest problem with my current irons is a tendency to hook my shots, which I did not do with the clubs that the fitter recommended. A better lie angle should help with this too.

As for grips, I have average sized hands and think a normal grip is just fine.

Thanks to all for the input. More is always welcome, but this has been great already.
 
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Comfortably Lomb

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Echoing the comments here I question the value of high priced boutique shafts for a 24 handicap with low swing speed. Callaway markets the Apex DCB at higher handicap, slower swing speed players and both of the stock shaft options are relatively lightweight. I find it really hard to believe you're going to actually get more out of a shaft that costs several times more, but that seems to be TrueSpec's business model.

Also, be careful with length and lie angle. There is no absolute standard and specs can vary from set-to-set within a manufacturer's roster. Typically, clubs marketed at less skilled players tend to be longer and more upright. I don't think it's a good idea to buy a set of irons without getting fit for length and lie angle.
 

jercra

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I've bought used clubs in the past and have no compunction about it. However, the fitter found a new club for me that I think will make a difference, I don't want to start over and I have the money to buy new.

I'm sold on not getting the Oban shafts. I need to figure out the right flex and lie.

The Obans were apparently midway between senior and regular flex, which is about right for my swing speed (84 with the driver). I expect my swing speed to decline as I age (I'm 73 now) despite my efforts to the contrary, so maybe the time has arrived for senior flex. As for lie angle, I'm 5'9" with long arms, and think a -1 lie angle is what I need. I'm going to stop by the PGA Superstore in Peabody this afternoon to see if they can provide some guidance.

The comment above about getting clubs bent makes me comfortable about taking and educated guess about lie and adjusting afterwards if need be. FWIW, my biggest problem with my current irons is a tendency to hook my shots, which I did not do with the clubs that the fitter recommended. A better lie angle should help with this too.

As for grips, I have average sized hands and think a normal grip is just fine.

Thanks to all for the input. More is always welcome, but this has been great already.
After reading all of this, I think it's worth talking to TruSpec again and asking them for another fitting with less expensive shafts. There's no need to guess what will work. Once you've found a combination of head/shaft/grip that work for you physically and financially, then get them measured for length and lie. If you're going to spend on new, don't guess. TruSpec should have no problem with providing a re-fit and will order the clubs exactly as you were fit.
 

Koufax

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I agree about talking to TruSpec. I feel like I got 50% of a fitting. It's just a long way from my home and I'm not crazy about making the trip. I'll give them a call to talk about it however.
 

BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
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Man I'd love to get some nice new equipment. A number of years ago, Mickelson ripped Tiger for using substandard equipment. Tiger was too much of a gentleman to say, "Oh well then that shows you how much better I am than you - I'm whipping your ass with crappy equipment!" I feel a little like that here - I'm playing pretty well, putting up some of the best scores of my life, but man my equipment is used, old, and not very good. I really wonder how much of a difference quality equipment would make.

Alas, I don't play enough, nor really want to spend the $$ to buy it - hard for me to justify that kind of expense.
 

Koufax

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So I sent an email to the TruSpec fitter. (He's an itinerant clubfitter, going up and down the East Coast with a van full of equipment.) He says that he was measuring lie and club length during the fitting, and that he can use the Recoil shafts at no upcharge. That being the case. his price should be about the same as Callaway's, but with a better fit. I'm awaiting the quote.
 

Phragle

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I've bought used clubs in the past and have no compunction about it. However, the fitter found a new club for me that I think will make a difference, I don't want to start over and I have the money to buy new.

I'm sold on not getting the Oban shafts. I need to figure out the right flex and lie.

The Obans were apparently midway between senior and regular flex, which is about right for my swing speed (84 with the driver). I expect my swing speed to decline as I age (I'm 73 now) despite my efforts to the contrary, so maybe the time has arrived for senior flex. As for lie angle, I'm 5'9" with long arms, and think a -1 lie angle is what I need. I'm going to stop by the PGA Superstore in Peabody this afternoon to see if they can provide some guidance.

The comment above about getting clubs bent makes me comfortable about taking and educated guess about lie and adjusting afterwards if need be. FWIW, my biggest problem with my current irons is a tendency to hook my shots, which I did not do with the clubs that the fitter recommended. A better lie angle should help with this too.

As for grips, I have average sized hands and think a normal grip is just fine.

Thanks to all for the input. More is always welcome, but this has been great already.
Yeah try them w the Darts at least, and hopefully they'll have a 1 flat fitting head. If not try a Mizuno hot metal. It's a highly sought after club that's in the same class as the DCB. More importantly for you, they're a degree flatter than the DCB. Lie angles aren't standardized, and Mizunos are known to be a bit flatter.

Yes loft and lies can be adjusted afterwards, but if you care about cosmetics going through the manufacturer can be better. The bending bar can leave some marks on the hosel. It's not something I care about but maybe worth mentioning. I just built a 4-PW combo set and had all the lofts and lies altered in in Danvers for $70

Echoing the comments here I question the value of high priced boutique shafts for a 24 handicap with low swing speed. Callaway markets the Apex DCB at higher handicap, slower swing speed players and both of the stock shaft options are relatively lightweight. I find it really hard to believe you're going to actually get more out of a shaft that costs several times more, but that seems to be TrueSpec's business model.

Also, be careful with length and lie angle. There is no absolute standard and specs can vary from set-to-set within a manufacturer's roster. Typically, clubs marketed at less skilled players tend to be longer and more upright. I don't think it's a good idea to buy a set of irons without getting fit for length and lie angle.
Idk if true spec is the same but Club Champions model is inefficient, and that gets passed down to the consumer. They buy heads from the manufacturer for the full retail price of the whole set, then they buy the shafts and grips separately, and charge for all the work. They also try to upcharge buyers on fairly useless stuff like Puring. That's how people end up w $4k iron sets that you can order through the manufacturer for 1500. They can do a great fit, but it's not for anyone that cares about 3 grand.

So I sent an email to the TruSpec fitter. (He's an itinerant clubfitter, going up and down the East Coast with a van full of equipment.) He says that he was measuring lie and club length during the fitting, and that he can use the Recoil shafts at no upcharge. That being the case. his price should be about the same as Callaway's, but with a better fit. I'm awaiting the quote.
Nice. I suspected that wouldn't be an issue. It's probably still worth going to peabody/danvers to swing the Dart. It's also worth asking for a timeframe. Lots of custom builds are a 6-8 week wait right now
 
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Koufax

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I'm going to Peabody for an eye exam this afternoon. Right by the PGA Superstore. I'll drop in.
 

Oil Can Dan

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I broke the shaft of my 8-day-old gap wedge (a Callaway Mack Daddy) on Sunday - bent it on a tree. I took the easy way out and am having my club replace the shaft, but all of this talk about club specs and stuff has me wondering if that was a mistake. Is the club going to be a mess when I get it back?
 

dhappy42

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Oct 27, 2013
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I broke the shaft of my 8-day-old gap wedge (a Callaway Mack Daddy) on Sunday - bent it on a tree. I took the easy way out and am having my club replace the shaft, but all of this talk about club specs and stuff has me wondering if that was a mistake. Is the club going to be a mess when I get it back?
If the replacement shaft is the same as the original, you shouldn't notice any difference.
 

Koufax

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Went to the PGA Superstore and tried out a Callaway Apex DCB 7 iron with the Recoil Dart shaft - senior flex. It felt fine. I asked how long it would take them to get me a set. They said 6 weeks (and that was a guess). I have asked TruSpec the same question and await an answer. Anything reasonable and I will pull the trigger. Changing out the shaft has brought the price down by a third, to a point that makes much more sense.

Thanks to Jetcra for suggesting that I get back in touch with TruSpec. It was the right thing to do for a number of reasons and it seems to have worked out. Now I need to get back to lessons and the practice range.
 

jercra

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Yeah try them w the Darts at least, and hopefully they'll have a 1 flat fitting head. If not try a Mizuno hot metal. It's a highly sought after club that's in the same class as the DCB. More importantly for you, they're a degree flatter than the DCB. Lie angles aren't standardized, and Mizunos are known to be a bit flatter.

Yes loft and lies can be adjusted afterwards, but if you care about cosmetics going through the manufacturer can be better. The bending bar can leave some marks on the hosel. It's not something I care about but maybe worth mentioning. I just built a 4-PW combo set and had all the lofts and lies altered in in Danvers for $70


Idk if true spec is the same but Club Champions model is inefficient, and that gets passed down to the consumer. They buy heads from the manufacturer for the full retail price of the whole set, then they buy the shafts and grips separately, and charge for all the work. They also try to upcharge buyers on fairly useless stuff like Puring. That's how people end up w $4k iron sets that you can order through the manufacturer for 1500. They can do a great fit, but it's not for anyone that cares about 3 grand.


Nice. I suspected that wouldn't be an issue. It's probably still worth going to peabody/danvers to swing the Dart. It's also worth asking for a timeframe. Lots of custom builds are a 6-8 week wait right now
Oh, here's a tip I just remembered... I ordered a putter through Club Champion after a fitting. I told them that I was going to take their fitting specs and order it from my club because I get discounts there and they knocked 15% off the price. I'm sure TruSpec would do the same. Doesn't even matter if you're a member somewhere. Just pick a place and call it your club. They'll never check.
 

jercra

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If the replacement shaft is the same as the original, you shouldn't notice any difference.
This is true unless you hit the tree low on the shaft. Just ask them to make sure the loft and lie are right before they give it back to you and you'll never notice the difference.
 

Phragle

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Went to the PGA Superstore and tried out a Callaway Apex DCB 7 iron with the Recoil Dart shaft - senior flex. It felt fine. I asked how long it would take them to get me a set. They said 6 weeks (and that was a guess). I have asked TruSpec the same question and await an answer. Anything reasonable and I will pull the trigger. Changing out the shaft has brought the price down by a third, to a point that makes much more sense.

Thanks to Jetcra for suggesting that I get back in touch with TruSpec. It was the right thing to do for a number of reasons and it seems to have worked out. Now I need to get back to lessons and the practice range.
I'm looking at the callaway site and they have the Dart as a stock shaft. If youre going with a stock shaft you should be able to buy a set that's in stock somewhere. No wait
 

Koufax

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I hope to get it from TruSPec with the shaft length, lie and grip that they recommend. It's not exactly off-the-shelf.