2021 Draft: Tank for Trevor - Can NE do it?

Super Nomario

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Losing JMac will be a good thing. He's been objectively HORRENDOUS this season, allowing opposing QBs a ridiculous 134.8 passer rating when throwing at him. Williams - way too early to call him a bust. Gilmore and McCourty are free agents after 2021, but not before 2021. If they keep them both, they're still quality players. If they trade them, they can get some young players, or other players to fill holes, or draft picks to restock. They'll have to pay Jackson, which they should. He's elite.

RBs are the last position group I'd worry about. Harris is a stud. Michel is obviously more than a serviceable backup, and apparently isn't bad on special teams either. JJ Taylor might or might not be a decent replacement for White, but we know that BB always finds useful players at RB.

The OL...I agree with you that there are possible losses, but there's a lot of quality there, and they won't lose ALL those guys.

The DL and linebackers are an issue, but there's some decent players there. Pass-catchers are an issue too, but honestly, they add one really good WR and the other guys all get much better. So think of it this way. Byrd is a useful #2 (with a good QB) but a bad #1. Meyers is a useful #3 but a not-so-good #2. You add a true #1 WR and you improve all three WR positions in one shot as Byrd and Meyers get bumped down a slot. Lots of WRs available this offseason. Same with TE. One guy I'd love to see them snag is Arnold from Arizona. He wouldn't cost too much, and his stats aren't lights out, but every time I see the guy, he's making plays. UFA after this season.

So it's possible to upgrade rather significantly with just a few key moves. The QB spot is the issue, though as I pointed out, there could be legit options there too.
You're talking about re-signing Jackson, re-signing at least some of the FA OLs, signing a #1 WR, re-signing Byrd (who is a FA), signing a #1 TE, and addressing QB ... and that's before we get to the reality that Byron Cowart is the only DL under contract for 2021 (Guy, Davis, Butler, and Wise are all FAs). I just see too much here to do.
 

OurF'ingCity

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You're talking about re-signing Jackson, re-signing at least some of the FA OLs, signing a #1 WR, re-signing Byrd (who is a FA), signing a #1 TE, and addressing QB ... and that's before we get to the reality that Byron Cowart is the only DL under contract for 2021 (Guy, Davis, Butler, and Wise are all FAs). I just see too much here to do.
Too much to do to achieve what, though? Assemble a Super Bowl contender/top-2 seed? Completely agree with that - there are too many teams ahead of them to accomplish that over a single offseason.

But this year's craptastic roster is likely going to go 7-9, and if Cam Newton hadn't forgotten how to throw a football and there hadn't been a Covid breakout at basically the worst possible time, they could pretty easily have been at least two wins better. I don't think it's a huge stretch to suggest that if they find a league-average QB, are smart with player acquisition more broadly, and get a bit lucky they could win 10 or 11 games next year and make the postseason. I think that should be the realistic goal.

Edit: This might have been pointed out above but it's also the case that the Pats are likely to have a relatively easy schedule next year because for the first time in 20 years they won't have to play a first-place schedule and thus won't have to play either KC or Pittsburgh. And they play the NFC South, which will be challenging but overall should be easier than the NFC West was this year, since I don't really see the Falcons or Panthers being significantly better than they were this year.
 
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Super Nomario

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But this year's craptastic roster is likely going to go 7-9, and if Cam Newton hadn't forgotten how to throw a football and there hadn't been a Covid breakout at basically the worst possible time, they could pretty easily have been at least two wins better. I don't think it's a huge stretch to suggest that if they find a league-average QB, are smart with player acquisition more broadly, and get a bit lucky they could win 10 or 11 games next year and make the postseason. I think that should be the realistic goal.
Finding a league-average QB is hella hard and hella expensive. Tom Brady and Phil Rivers are tied for the 17th-high paid QB AAV at $25 MM a year. That's the going rate nowadays - if someone is even available.

Yes, this year's team went 7-9, but that was with Thuney, Andrews, White, Burkhead, Byrd, Eluemunor, Butler, Guy, Wise, Simon, Bethel, Folk, all of whom are free agents (plus JC Jackson is a RFA). I think it's going to take a lot of doing just to tread water this offseason.

Edit: This might have been pointed out above but it's also the case that the Pats are likely to have a relatively easy schedule next year because for the first time in 20 years they won't have to play a first-place schedule and thus won't have to play either KC or Pittsburgh. And they play the NFC South, which will be challenging but overall should be easier than the NFC West was this year, since I don't really see the Falcons or Panthers being significantly better than they were this year.
The first place vs third place schedule thing is overrated. It's only two games. This year they played the first place team in the NFC North (Baltimore) and the AFC South (Houston), and Baltimore wound up being just OK this year while Houston wound up being terrible. They will probably play Baltimore again in 2021, as they figure to finish third. I don't know that the Souths are going to be a lot easier than the Wests were this year.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Finding a league-average QB is hella hard and hella expensive. Tom Brady and Phil Rivers are tied for the 17th-high paid QB AAV at $25 MM a year. That's the going rate nowadays - if someone is even available.
True, but they have almost $20 million coming off the books just from Brady's and AB's dead money going away. And I wouldn't be totally surprised to see them move on from Edelman via trade or just outright cutting him which would save some more money without really losing any talent compared to this year's team (it's also possible they don't cut or trade Edelman, and if he comes back at even like 80% of the player he's been in earlier years that's adding to the team's talent in a different way). And they can always draft a QB in addition or alternatively - other than Lawrence and Fields they'll have their choice of the bunch.

Yes, this year's team went 7-9, but that was with Thuney, Andrews, White, Burkhead, Byrd, Eluemunor, Butler, Guy, Wise, Simon, Bethel, Folk, all of whom are free agents (plus JC Jackson is a RFA). I think it's going to take a lot of doing just to tread water this offseason.
Agree that Thuney and Andrews are either going to be expensive re-signs or difficult to replace (although I wouldn't be shocked to see Andrews take a below-market deal to stay here). All of those other guys, though, strike me as the usual types they are willing to give up every year if another team offers them a decent contract, and they've had success in letting those types of players go while finding cheap replacements (whether via draft, free agent leftovers, etc.) that, taken together, match or exceed the production of the guys who left.

The first place vs third place schedule thing is overrated. It's only two games. This year they played the first place team in the NFC North (Baltimore) and the AFC South (Houston), and Baltimore wound up being just OK this year while Houston wound up being terrible. They will probably play Baltimore again in 2021, as they figure to finish third. I don't know that the Souths are going to be a lot easier than the Wests were this year.
"Only two games" can be really important when you're a fringe playoff team, though, which is what the Pats will be next year in the optimistic scenario. Playing the Ravens and Broncos instead of KC and Pittsburgh isn;t a huge difference, but it's a material one. Same thing for NFC West vs. NFC South - playing the Panthers and Falcons instead of the Cardinals and 49ers isn't a huge difference, but I'd say it's marginally easier. And taking another step I'd say the same thing about getting play Jacksonville and Houston next year instead of Denver and SD this year. We're talking about maybe a 1 or 2 game swing but that could be a huge deal.

All that said I don't disagree with you that 7-9 or worse next year is a real possibility - just that making the playoffs is not a pipe dream and strikes me as an achievable goal if they have a good offseason and some things break right for them.
 

lexrageorge

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Yes, this year's team went 7-9, but that was with Thuney, Andrews, White, Burkhead, Byrd, Eluemunor, Butler, Guy, Wise, Simon, Bethel, Folk, all of whom are free agents (plus JC Jackson is a RFA). I think it's going to take a lot of doing just to tread water this offseason.
Some of those guys are not all that hard to replace. In particular, players like Wise, Eluemunor, Byrd, Bethel, and Simon tend to churn every year among NFL free agency. Some will stay and others will leave, but that's no different than any team; yet somehow teams in similar situations still manage to improve from year to year.

I do see a problem that their core of younger players has a lot of question marks. Winovich has looked really good at times, and yet there are games where he gets beat badly and ends up benched. Wynn is good, but still working on a small sample size. Dugger is a keeper, but we don't know where his ceiling will be just yet, and he's almost 25. Michel has had his ups and downs and who knows how long that knee will last. Uche and Jennings both have potential, but their future is still surrounded by big error bars. They got good value from the Onwenu, Herron, and Cowart picks from the last 2 years, but the two tight ends chosen have done nothing.

Pats will have the 3rd most cap space available of any team based on current projections. That's not nothing.
 

Jnai

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Edit: This might have been pointed out above but it's also the case that the Pats are likely to have a relatively easy schedule next year because for the first time in 20 years they won't have to play a first-place schedule and thus won't have to play either KC or Pittsburgh. And they play the NFC South, which will be challenging but overall should be easier than the NFC West was this year, since I don't really see the Falcons or Panthers being significantly better than they were this year.
Aren't all schedules essentially balanced in the NFL?

Yes, there's a "first place schedule", but the first place team plays:
Their own division twice: 22, 33, 44
An AFC conference: 1234
An NFC conference: 1234
The two remaining ones that weren't in their chosen conference: 11

So, they play:
1111222233334444

A third place schedule plays:
Their own division twice: 112244
An AFC Conference: 1234
An NFC Conference: 1234
The two remaining threes that weren't in their chosen conference: 33

So, they play:
1111222233334444

(*Yes there is marginally different variance of strength in the top and bottom of the schedule, but teams get better or worse often enough.)
 

Super Nomario

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And they can always draft a QB in addition or alternatively - other than Lawrence and Fields they'll have their choice of the bunch.
I'm not sure that's true. There's a decent chance Wilson and Lance are gone by the time the Patriots pick, or at least one of them.

Agree that Thuney and Andrews are either going to be expensive re-signs or difficult to replace (although I wouldn't be shocked to see Andrews take a below-market deal to stay here). All of those other guys, though, strike me as the usual types they are willing to give up every year if another team offers them a decent contract, and they've had success in letting those types of players go while finding cheap replacements (whether via draft, free agent leftovers, etc.) that, taken together, match or exceed the production of the guys who left.
Sure, but it's not free to replace them, either. How many offseasons do we see $30 MM in cap space and have dreams of a big-ticket free agent, only to see them spend it on a bunch of smaller contracts instead? They have a lot of holes they're going to need to plug.

All that said I don't disagree with you that 7-9 or worse next year is a real possibility - just that making the playoffs is not a pipe dream and strikes me as an achievable goal if they have a good offseason and some things break right for them.
I wouldn't call it a pipe dream, but I won't be surprised if they're similar or slightly worse in 2021. I think it's a two-year rebuild and that's provided they can get their quarterback.

I do see a problem that their core of younger players has a lot of question marks. Winovich has looked really good at times, and yet there are games where he gets beat badly and ends up benched. Wynn is good, but still working on a small sample size. Dugger is a keeper, but we don't know where his ceiling will be just yet, and he's almost 25. Michel has had his ups and downs and who knows how long that knee will last. Uche and Jennings both have potential, but their future is still surrounded by big error bars. They got good value from the Onwenu, Herron, and Cowart picks from the last 2 years, but the two tight ends chosen have done nothing.
Agreed. I haven't ranked every team in under-25 talent, but I have to imagine they're in the bottom quarter, and it may be worse than that.

Pats will have the 3rd most cap space available of any team based on current projections. That's not nothing.
It's not nothing, but I think it's going to go pretty fast when you consider they don't have a QB and all the holes in free agency.
 

SoxVindaloo

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There's a very strong chance Buffalo will move on from John Brown this offseason. He's exactly the type of veteran NE has prioritized in the past and he'll probably be around $5million vs. these $20million types. Marvin Jones at 31 is still pretty effective and will certainly be cheaper than the younger, flashier alternatives. There's also going to be players who will be VERY available on the trade market as teams scramble to get cap compliant. I'd much rather have a couple of really solid #2 type of options than a very expensive #1 a defense can just game plan out of the offense anyhow.
Agree with this philosophically but one offseason ago a guy like Humphries got 4x9 from the Titans. What does the market correction look like this year? I would love Jones but I don’t think he will be cheap.
 

EL Jeffe

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Agree with this philosophically but one offseason ago a guy like Humphries got 4x9 from the Titans. What does the market correction look like this year? I would love Jones but I don’t think he will be cheap.
Adam Humphries was a free agent at 25 years old--huge difference between that and Marvin Jones who will be turning 31. Humphries was also signed during a rising cap era; 2021 is going to be putting a very real squeeze on the market. The highest-end players will still get paid but the middle-class players (and older vets) are going to get pinched. They'll either sign for bargain 1-year deals and try again in a more normalized (but crowded) 2022 cap market, or just take what they can get on multi-year deals for the longer-term security.

Another small (but potentially important) point to keep in mind is that there are a few less NE "regimes" out there with Houston and Detroit turning over their front offices/coaching staffs (Atlanta as well, but Dimitroff never really built a NE type of roster). Maybe McDaniels heads to the Chargers to mitigate some of that, but maybe not. We've seen enough examples of Houston, Tennessee, Detroit, Miami et al. swooping in and grabbing players (whether draft or free agency) that NE had been linked to. A couple of those programs off the table doesn't hurt. Might not end up making a difference, but doesn't hurt.

One more post-script here since Juju has been brought up a few times. That's a hard pass from me; Juju has basically been just a guy the last two seasons. 550 yards in 2019 (yes, bad QB play with Big Ben out, but what kind of QB play will NE have in 2021? Jury is very much still out on that). This season, he's averaging 8 yards per catch. He's sort of living off his 2018 reputation (when he was fantastic) but if you go by his last two seasons, he's essentially N'Keal Harry with a higher usage rate. You want to pay him how much to bet on the hope that his first two seasons were the real Juju and the last two seasons are the mirage? Maybe that's true, but I'm not banking a big chunk of cap space on that one.
 

EL Jeffe

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I'm not sure of the, but would Hightower, Chung and Cannon coming back impact the cap?
Miguel's projected $58million in 2021 cap space accounts for Hightower, Chung, and Cannon coming back in 2021 and playing on their current deals. Cannon almost certainly will not (they save $7million by cutting him, and he may retire anyhow). They save $10million by cutting Hightower (they'd probably want to bring him back for less but he may also retire anyhow). Chung just extended this offseason and isn't going anywhere until the following offseason.

So if they were to move on from Cannon and Hightower, they'd be looking at ~ $75million in cap space (minus their Top 51 rule replacements).
 

NomarsFool

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I'm not very optimistic. It's unfortunate, because given the Covid situation, this would have been the perfect year to really reset. There are few things to be excited about on this team - unfortunately, and those that are exciting are very likely to get worse (OL) this offseason.

It's also disappointing how poorly the Pats have done in the draft in recent years, also squandering picks on stupid penalties and neo-Nazi kickers who can't get off the practice squad.
 

Captaincoop

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Do we really think Chung and Cannon come back? My bet is that at least Chung has played his last game for the Pats. He'll be 34, coming off an 18 month break, and was already declining.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Do we really think Chung and Cannon come back? My bet is that at least Chung has played his last game for the Pats. He'll be 34, coming off an 18 month break, and was already declining.
His cap hit is 5.1m. If he gets cut, it is a 7.5m dead cap.

Hell he back.

Edit: kind of same deal for cannon. 9m cap, if hes cut, it's a 5m cap hit. We wont get a starting replacement for less than 4m, so wed be losing money by cutting him (unless they draft a starting lineman with their 1st overall).