2021 Copa América

Titans Bastard

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The Copa América is scheduled to start in two weeks and as of tonight there are no longer any host countries. Colombia and Argentina had been scheduled to co-host, but Colombia dropped out ten days ago due to civil unrest there. Tonight, CONMEBOL announced that due to rising COVID cases Argentina would also not host.

View: https://twitter.com/CONMEBOL/status/1399180028915720195


What a mess. CONMEBOL is evaluating options, but pulling this together in two weeks in a new country feels extremely difficult. There are a lot of logistics to take care of.


Zooming out, CONMEBOL is switching the Copa América from odd years to even years, or in other words from being held one year after the World Cup to being held two years after the World Cup (in the same summer as the Euros). Like the Euros, the 2020 Copa was pushed to 2021 because of COVID.
 
tmracht

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Oh man let this happen, wife just signed off on me taking the young'n to Copa at Gillette.
 
tmracht

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From The Athletic: This summer's Copa América will be moved to Brazil, CONMEBOL announced Monday, after losing both of its co-hosts in the last two weeks due to COVID-19 concerns.
 
67YAZ

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Copa to Brazil. Because if there’s one country in the world where the disease is under control and there are strong precautionary policies in place...

Really, though, Bolsonaro will use this to attempt to sportswash his image while Brazilians suffer en masse from the pandemic. Wish we could expect better from our sports leaders.
 
nolasoxfan

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67YAZ said:
Copa to Brazil. Because if there’s one country in the world where the disease is under control and there are strong precautionary policies in place...

Really, though, Bolsonaro will use this to attempt to sportswash his image while Brazilians suffer en masse from the pandemic. Wish we could expect better from our sports leaders.
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CONMEBOL is just following the examples set by FIFA, UEFA, and the IOC. Public health is a secondary consideration to cold, hard ca$h. Sane individuals would postpone the event, but greed gonna greed.

edit: and what does it say about the state of this planet’s collective mind when Luis Suarez is the freaking voice of reason?!
 
Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Depending on how exactly you define the south and northeast, that probably covers 7 of the 12 stadium sites used in the 2014 World Cup. The Northeast, South, and Sao Paulo is most of the country by population.
 
Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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ninjacornelius said:
Yeah we're talking, what, Manaus, the two stadiums in Rio, maybe Salvador, and...? This is going to be a mess.
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Plus Brasilia and Belo Horizonte. But that's still only a fraction of the country. It basically looks like states with governors aligned with Bolsonaro will hold events but states with governors in opposition won't. And of course the states with pro-Bolsonaro governors are not exactly succeeding at fighting Covid. As you said, a total mess.
 
Nick Kaufman

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Depending on how exactly you define the south and northeast, that probably covers 7 of the 12 stadium sites used in the 2014 World Cup. The Northeast, South, and Sao Paulo is most of the country by population.
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The important part is that they have a well thought out plan.
 
67YAZ

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Plus Brasilia and Belo Horizonte. But that's still only a fraction of the country. It basically looks like states with governors aligned with Bolsonaro will hold events but states with governors in opposition won't. And of course the states with pro-Bolsonaro governors are not exactly succeeding at fighting Covid. As you said, a total mess.
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I wonder if they do move forward with the venues you mention, will we see some of the biggest players withdraw or come up with injuries?
 
Senator Donut

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Brasilia, Rio de Janeiro, Cuiaba, and Goiania have been selected as host cities. Apparently this was news to the city of Rio.

View: https://twitter.com/dmontalvan/status/1399854843385221120


CONMEBOL then got in a war of words with FIFPRO, after the union said relocating the tournament “could have serious implications for the health of the professional footballers, staff and general public.”

CONMEBOL responded with “We consider it a lack of respect that FIFPRO has not even taken the time to consult the protocols, statistics and considerations, and yet still puts out statements with no base in data or easily obtainable, objective information,

“We understand that FIFPRO, with their offices in the Netherlands, must have little knowledge of behaviour in the region.”

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/conmebol-hits-out-players-union-over-copa-criticism-2021-06-02/
 
tmracht

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Insert Michael Jackson Popcorn.gif

It is quite sad that the management of CONMEBOL is so inept/corrupt/vengeful(?) I'm not sure which is the correct word(s). But this is a leadership nightmare. Attack FIFPRO is all-time insanity.
 
Zososoxfan

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This is going to end poorly. Usually CONMEBOL can skate by with corruption and ineptitude but I think this is going to end in disaster considering the lack of preparation.
 
Senator Donut

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67YAZ said:
I wonder if they do move forward with the venues you mention, will we see some of the biggest players withdraw or come up with injuries?
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Due to a condensed calendar, CONMEBOL has scheduled World Cup qualifying matches immediately before the tournament. I figured once those players had arrived with their squads in South America, they would stick around for Copa America. However, it seems like it has had the opposite effect. The extra time together has allowed players to take collective action. Right now Brazil is weighing a boycott.

View: https://twitter.com/ap_sports/status/1400830463275634693
 
Dummy Hoy

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What a disaster.
Add to it the set up which, with Qatar and Australia dropping out, plays 40 group stage games to eliminate 2 teams.
 
Senator Donut

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Going from those half filled Euro stadiums to Copa America in the evening was very jarring, almost like being back in the early pandemic. I ended up switching over to LPGA golf (my sporting interests have gotten weirder as I’ve grown older) at halftime of the Colombia match.
 
Zososoxfan

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Play 4 matches to eliminate 2 sides #LaCopa

In any event, I'm obviously still going to tune in for every match of La Seleccion. The rumored XI is:

Emiliano Martínez
Montiel-Martínez Quarta-Otamendi-Tagliafico
De Paul-Paredes-Lo Celso
Messi-Lautaro Martínez-Nicolas González

I'm baffled that Otamendi is still on the squad, let alone a starter. If I'm Scaloni I roll with Lisandro Martinez (Ajax) or play one of Quarta or Romero (Atalanta) on their off foot.

The inclusion of Gonzalez is also weird, since there are other players that offer a variety of options and more quality. Acuna could play in the MF and add a lot of workrate and width, Angel Correa is similar but more attack-minded, and Joaquin Correa could be a striker partner for Lautaro and keep defenders off of Messi. I also don't know Nico Dominguez as well, but he played real minutes for Bologna in Serie A this season. Hell, even Angel Di Maria would be a better option since he can take some creative workload from Messi.

This Chile team is still very cohesive, but it's also still "headlined" by the old guard (Sanchez, Vidal, Aranguiz, Medel, Bravo, etc.). On paper Argentina should roll these guys, but that's just not the way the Argentina NT has rolled for the past decade, possibly even more.
 
cromulence

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MESSI!!!!

Incredible free kick!!

Seemed like Bravo was a little slow moving over to it.
 
cromulence

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Yeah, that sprung to mind as well. And I recall people wanted to blame Guzan for that too.

On the rewatch, that one was better than this one - he really hit the one versus the US with a lot of pace. Today's didn't have quite as much.
 
Tangled Up In Red

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Wild double-VAR sequence ends with Chile nodding in a saved PK rebound.
Fwiw, I think the VAR penalty ruling was correct. I mean, you can't (or shouldn't be able) to kick/clobber a guy just b/c the shot has left his foot...
 
Zososoxfan

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Argentina-Chile was a pretty sordid affair. The ref did about as well as you could ask but the South American game is just too physical and clunky without giving out more cards. Vidal absolutely should've been sent off late in the second half already on a yellow, but otherwise the ref did a great job keeping the children in line. The crowding of the ref by both teams and the embellishment was over the top by a lot.

As I feared, Gonzalez was very wasteful with 2-3 of Argentina's best chances. No way he should start over either Correa or even Palacios. I'd even argue that Acuna is more valuable but he's pretty duplicative with Tagliafico willing to get forward and provide width.

I also feel vindicated about griping about Otamendi (which was obvious) since he got turned around badly on the play that led to the Chile penalty (correctly reversed upon VAR review).

Argentina played very well in the first half and really controlled the match. They created a few good chances, although the play that led to the Messi FK goal was a GK hoof clearance. In the second half, Chile ramped up the intensity and Argentina's domination of the middle fizzled. The MF3 really struggled to possess and recover when losing the ball. Di Maria helped a lot with this and should've come on sooner, but at his age and in the first match of a long tourney I hope the hesitation was precautionary. He was hugely influential and positive with his short stint. The other subs didn't make much of an impact, although the Palacios for Paredes switch was unusual, as was the RB like-for-like swap of Molina for Montiel.

It actually gets harder for Argentina as they play Uruguay on Friday.
 
Tangled Up In Red

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Brazil just scored on Peru in the 13th minute, but man, two uniform related things jump out at me (maybe better for @dirtynine kit thread)...
Peru is classically gorgeous. White/white/white with red sash. Just perfection.
And Brazil... so much better and distinguished looking with white (rather than blue) socks.
 
Zososoxfan

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Argentina have sealed their passage through to the knockout rounds with a 1-0 win over Paraguay with a match to spare. Scaloni rolled out an interesting lineup and the team performed very well in the first half:

Martinez
Molina-Romero-Pezzella-Tagliafico
Rodriguez-Paredes
Di Maria-Papu
Messi-Kun

Papu Gomez was the star of the first half, scoring a very nice goal assisted by Di Maria on a slick through ball. Messi started the move by beating a couple of defenders in the middle of the park. Di Maria and Gomez were excellent in helping Messi create offense and it led to a second goal off an OG cross, but it was incorrectly chalked off to Messi being offside on the initial Di Maria shot. Paredes and Rodriguez were pretty formidable in the middle with only a bit of help from Di Maria and Papu--this put a lot of pressure on the backline and Molina, Romero, and Pezzella only looked OK holding up to it. Molina struggled with Almiron (admittedly a good player) but Pezzella in particular didn't look terribly strong in his first appearance. I'll still take him over Otamendi and I'd still like to see Lisandro Martinez get some run. Tagliafico handled his flank very well as expected.

Scaloni made a bunch of subs in the second half as Argentina conceded lots of possession:

59' - J Correa for Aguero
72' - De Paul for Papu
81' - A Correa for Di Maria; Dominguez for Paredes

The first sub was for fresh legs and left Messi as the target man. I really like J Correa and thought he contributed a lot more in defense than in attack. De Paul was questionable with a knock coming into the match but he instantly provided some much needed help to Molina down the right. Once J Correa and De Paul came on, I felt the MF became much more stable as expected. A Correa was also excellent in defense/pressing and actually helped kill off the match with good passing and possession play upfield. I didn't notice a big change when Dominguez came on but I may go rewatch again tonight to see if that's a viable MF pair.
 
Tangled Up In Red

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Did I read it correctly that 4 of the 5 teams in each group advance to knockout? Seems even sillier than the Euro setup.
 
Zososoxfan

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bosox4283 said:
Naturally. A Simeone disciple is expected to exhibit these virtues.
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I think Atleti did some great business snatching up De Paul too. RDP is the exact kind of third MF that lets the other guys do more obviously good things. Getting him for his best 2-3 years is shrewd Cholo-Argentina biz, although at $35M (E) he's going to have big expectations.
 
DJnVa

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You folks need to go watch the the end of the Brazil vs Colombia game without spoilers then come back and discuss it. Start around the 75th minute.
 
Zososoxfan

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Group B standings are final:

Brazil
Peru
Colombia
Ecuador
Venezuela (eliminated)

Group A finishes up tonight with Argentina-Bolivia and Uruguay-Paraguay. The current table looks like this:

Team Points GD
1. Argentina 7 +2
2. Paraguay 6 +3
3. Chile (already played 4 matches) 5 -1
4. Uruguay 4 +1
5. Bolivia 0 -5


If Argentina win, they finish first in the group and would play Ecuador in the QF. If Argentina draw/lose and Paraguay beat Uruguay, Paraguay wins the group and Argentina finishes second. The first tiebreaker is GD, so if Paraguay draw and Argentina lose, Paraguay takes the group. With a draw, Uruguay would move ahead of Chile on GD. With a win, they're guaranteed at least second, and Argentina's result determines whether it's as A1 or A2.

The QF matchups are as follows:

2B (Peru) vs. 3A (Chile/Uruguay/Paraguay)
1B (Brazil) vs. 4A (Uruguay/Chile)
2A (Paraguay/Uruguay/Argentina) vs. 3B (Colombia)
1A (Argentina/Paraguay/Uruguay) vs. 4B (Ecuador)

Oddly, Scaloni has already announced his lineup and indicated that everyone on a yellow is starting on the bench (Emi Martinez, Martinez Quarta, GLC, Paredes, J Correa, and Lautaro):

Armani
Montiel-Pezzella-L. Martínez-Acuña
G. Rodríguez-Palacios
A Correa-Papu
Messi-Aguero

Not excited to see Armani again, but whatever. He's a good shot stopper with horrifying foot skills. The backline looks fine and I'm excited to see Lisandro play. El Huevo gives a nice break to Tagliafico. The MF is by far the most interesting with only one holding player in Rodriguez. Papu gets another start after his brilliant performance against Paraguay, Angelito gets to audition for a bigger role, and Palacios gets the same. Aguero gets more tune-up time, which is good.

The player I'll be watching most for positioning is Palacios. Gomes and Correa will both start on the outside but Papu will certainly cut and drift inside when there's space. Angelito will also play pretty high up, but his pressing will be rather useless if there's no coordination with his geriatric teammates. Messi will take up the AMF space so it will primarily be Palacios' job to distribute the ball to the front 4. That's a hard job for Argentina and in this tourney it's been Di Maria from the wing that's had the most success initiating offense. De Paul and Paredes have been better than other recent MF iterations though. Papu will also likely have lots of freedom to move around and his movement led to the goal and Argentina's terrific first half against Paraguay. It will also be interesting to watch whether the FBs (especially Acuna) have license to go forward at the opening whistle.
 
Zososoxfan

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The QF bracket is set:

Friday:
Brazil-Chile
Peru-Paraguay (plays winner of match above in semis)

Saturday:
Argentina-Ecuador
Uruguay-Colombia

Brazil-Chile and Uruguay-Colombia have potential to be lots of fun. Peru and Paraguay are probably happy to be playing each other with a chance to reach the semis. And Argentina may be finding their form and will be going up against an Ecuador side that qualified for the QF with 3 draws and a loss. They did score 5 goals though, so they have some balance.

Argentina's 4-1 win over Bolivia yesterday was encouraging, but it's hard to know how much to take away from it since Bolivia is pretty bad. Since Argentina have struggled to score recently it's definitely nice to see that they can convert quality chances, mostly control a match, and do so with lots of rotation in the squad. The biggest standout yesterday for me was A Correa, who provided lots of energy and created a lot of offense for the Albiceleste. His pressure, dribbling, and passing led to the first goal. The other big winner yesterday was Papu Gomez, who scored that opener and drew a pen for Argentina's second. With his ability to finish moves, he has to be in the conversation to be in the XI. The question is whether you try to get Messi-Lautaro-A Correa-Papu-Di Maria on the field simultaneously or do you sit 1 or 2 of Correa/Papu/Di Maria. Aguero had a rough day and he should be limited to sub duty unless Argentina can build an early lead and want to get him some rest. Acuna also had a good match--he's a high level professional footballer, and I wish either him or Taglia could play on their off-side at RB because they're both such good 2-way FBs. The rest of the MF and defense played well enough, but weren't challenged much by Bolivia. The Bolivia goal came off Argentina trying to play out of the back and Bolivia pressing high. Acuna made a bad decision and turned the ball over and Bolivia attacked quickly. Rodriguez could've read the play better and busted ass to mark Saavedra, but I don't find much fault in that. He's a really good backup option as a pivot at the least, and there's a world where a double-pivot with him and Paredes playing a deep-lying playmaker role gives Argentina good options.
 
coremiller

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Chile seem to have really fallen off from their heights a few years ago when they won consecutive Copas. I guess their top players all got old and the next generation isn't up to the same level.
 
cromulence

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Hahaha, Zverev just teased the crowd at Centre Court when they asked him about the game, saying he hoped it went to penalties.
 
Zososoxfan

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coremiller said:
Chile seem to have really fallen off from their heights a few years ago when they won consecutive Copas. I guess their top players all got old and the next generation isn't up to the same level.
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Yes, we talk about golden generations often, but Chile's golden generation was so far and above other iterations that it's truly remarkable. I hope they at least take out a chunk of Brazil, but Brazil still have to be heavy favorites to advance.
 
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