Ben Simmons wants out of Philadelphia

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lovegtm

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I really think at the end of the day we are going to move Jaylen as part of a shake up deal to add a star who fits better with Tatum and Beal. Maybe it’s right now for Simmons or maybe it’s next year for KAT. I have no basis for feeling this way other than “gut”……but I can see Jaylen being this generations shake up version of Employee #8.
I'd have to be really sure that Beal was coming to do Jaylen for Simmons, and even then I'm not sure. I do agree that Simmons' value is too low right now, and he slots into a Beal/Tatum team very well.
 

JakeRae

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I can certainly see the case for Simmons being a better player today (among other things, RPM lands that way). But it's pretty hard to feel like Simmons has much upside left given his remarkably flat trajectory versus Jaylen's steadily upward one. It's also hard to imagine how you'd prefer Simmons in the NBA playoffs. So given those realities, I really don't think it is a close call---and a year ago I would have (and perhaps did) argue for Simmons.
I don’t think it’s particularly close today, but I would not trade Jaylen for Simmons because Jaylen feels like a player on the verge of breaking through from having all the pieces of a star (to be clear, not a superstar) to actually being one. Jaylen has also always played up in the playoffs, whereas Simmons has played down. If you offered me that Simmons was going to actually commit to learning to fix the flaws in his game, I might consider the trade because a version of Simmons that does the work Rondo (as an example) did to learn to shoot is a borderline MVP candidate in his prime. But there is literally no indication Simmons has any interest in admitting and working on the weaknesses in his game. Absent that, I’m not interested unless it’s at a discount and Jaylen isn’t close to a discount.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Tom Moore of the Bucks County Courier Times in Philadelphia reporting (i) the Sixers are no longer planning on making a deal for Simmons because they can't get a replacement player they like and (ii) plan on forcing Simmons to show up to camp by fining him $300K a day if he doesn't.

That should work out well.

I suppose Simmons will come down with a nagging, soft-tissue injury within hours of the start of training camp.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/basketball/nba/nba-2021-dante-exum-houston-rockets-deal-cleveland-cavaliers-trade-deals-australian-boomers-video-patty-mills/news-story/7d520d7c6e66058f0855951a6eff8ba6?recommendedCount=0
 

moondog80

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Tom Moore of the Bucks County Courier Times in Philadelphia reporting (i) the Sixers are no longer planning on making a deal for Simmons because they can't get a replacement player they like and (ii) plan on forcing Simmons to show up to camp by fining him $300K a day if he doesn't.

That should work out well.

I suppose Simmons will come down with a nagging, soft-tissue injury within hours of the start of training camp.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/basketball/nba/nba-2021-dante-exum-houston-rockets-deal-cleveland-cavaliers-trade-deals-australian-boomers-video-patty-mills/news-story/7d520d7c6e66058f0855951a6eff8ba6?recommendedCount=0
Sounds like a call to other teams to up their offers. If Simmons truly wants out, players like that almost always get their wish.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Sounds like a call to other teams to up their offers. If Simmons truly wants out, players like that almost always get their wish.
Does threatening to force a player to attend camp through potential $300K fines cause other teams to up their offer or just continue waiting as the threat only further alienates the player?

Seems to me that PHI is just losing more and more leverage every day but what do I know?
 

PedroKsBambino

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I am not sure Morey has played this right....but I also don't know that he's really losing any additional leverage here. Seems like he decided there wasn't enough value available over the summer and he's waiting/hoping that Dame, Beal, or someone else will decide they want out---that may not happen, but if you don't like the value available over the summer I can't blame him for waiting and seeing whetehr things improve for the trade market. Saw the other day they broke out the Scott Boras-patented "mystery team" notion via Windhorst.

I also think Simmons is good enough that deals will be available when Philly decides they need to make the move---this is not a case where you really shrink the set of available acquirers once you lock in rosters or anything like that.

We'll see---it's a tough situation for all concerned
 

lexrageorge

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I'm fully on Team Morey here. He doesn't have to dump Simmons for a couple of pesos on the dollar, and he does have room to wait as well. The way to lose leverage is to convince yourself and everyone else that a deal has to be made by the start of training camp, or else. Conventional wisdom is not always correct. Klutch isn't dealing with a rookie GM fighting for his job.
 

moondog80

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Does threatening to force a player to attend camp through potential $300K fines cause other teams to up their offer or just continue waiting as the threat only further alienates the player?

Seems to me that PHI is just losing more and more leverage every day but what do I know?
I think you're right -- if a player truly wants to get traded, the team generally has little leverage. They are making it seem like they intend to bring him back to get as much in return as possible, and are trying to avoid a Harden situation.
 
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Cesar Crespo

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I am not sure Morey has played this right....but I also don't know that he's really losing any additional leverage here. Seems like he decided there wasn't enough value available over the summer and he's waiting/hoping that Dame, Beal, or someone else will decide they want out---that may not happen, but if you don't like the value available over the summer I can't blame him for waiting and seeing whetehr things improve for the trade market. Saw the other day they broke out the Scott Boras-patented "mystery team" notion via Windhorst.

I also think Simmons is good enough that deals will be available when Philly decides they need to make the move---this is not a case where you really shrink the set of available acquirers once you lock in rosters or anything like that.

We'll see---it's a tough situation for all concerned
I'm fully on Team Morey here. He doesn't have to dump Simmons for a couple of pesos on the dollar, and he does have room to wait as well. The way to lose leverage is to convince yourself and everyone else that a deal has to be made by the start of training camp, or else. Conventional wisdom is not always correct. Klutch isn't dealing with a rookie GM fighting for his job.

It's not really about leverage though. If they refuse to trade Simmons, other players around the league will take note and refuse to play for Philly. You can't hold players ransom in the NBA.
 

lexrageorge

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It's not really about leverage though. If they refuse to trade Simmons, other players around the league will take note and refuse to play for Philly. You can't hold players ransom in the NBA.
Simmons signed a contract; nobody is being held for ransom. He will eventually get traded, and players will act in their own self interest, not in the interest of Simmons. Embiid probably could care less.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I'm fully on Team Morey here. He doesn't have to dump Simmons for a couple of pesos on the dollar, and he does have room to wait as well. The way to lose leverage is to convince yourself and everyone else that a deal has to be made by the start of training camp, or else. Conventional wisdom is not always correct. Klutch isn't dealing with a rookie GM fighting for his job.
I'm on Team Morey too but is he really going to get more the longer he waits? I guess there's a possibility that Beal doesn't immediately sign his extension and then WAS panics but it seems to me that it's just as likely that Beal doesn't sign his extension and signals he wants to play with Tatum, which means Morey has lost even more leverage.

And if PHI doesn't do well at the start of season - I mean Simmons is a really good regular season player - how long can Morey wait?

Maybe Morey DGAF and has decided that he's going to win this at all costs. It would be great if he could pull it off because players really should have some limitations. Wonder how much collateral damage there will be though.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Simmons signed a contract; nobody is being held for ransom. He will eventually get traded, and players will act in their own self interest, not in the interest of Simmons. Embiid probably could care less.
Name one player who requested a trade and wasn't traded soon after. Players have all the power.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Maybe Morey DGAF and has decided that he's going to win this at all costs. It would be great if he could pull it off because players really should have some limitations. Wonder how much collateral damage there will be though.
I'd love to see it but he'd be setting the franchise back at least a couple seasons. I'd especially love to see the 76ers be the team to try it.

edit: especially with Maxey. Once players on rookie deals can start demanding trades, the NBA is done.
 

moondog80

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Name one player who requested a trade and wasn't traded soon after. Players have all the power.
Aaron Rodgers?

I think Philly intends to trade Simmons, but the scenario where the team does has leverage is if the offer is so low that you don't really care if you lose it. Pretend the return is one top 15 protected pick and a shitty contract -- at that point I'd take a chance that someone will come along and trump that, and if it lead to an ugly holdout, so be it.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Aaron Rodgers?

I think Philly intends to trade Simmons, but the scenario where the team does has leverage is if the offer is so low that you don't really care if you lose it. Pretend the return is one top 15 protected pick and a shitty contract -- at that point I'd take a chance that someone will come along and trump that, and if it lead to an ugly holdout, so be it.
I meant NBA.

I can't see the offers being that low and I'd imagine Philly would want NBA players rather than picks. I wonder if they are looking for a decent wing in return for Simmons and all the offers are for players like CJ McCollum. I can't see moving a decent wing for him. Would people trade Jerami Grant for Ben Simmons? If you could take one on the C's, which would you take?

Somewhat related: If this offseason doesn't inspire Simmons to start taking 3s in NBA games, nothing will.
 

moondog80

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I meant NBA.
But the dynamic is the same, right? What's different about the NFL where it could happen there and not in the NBA?


I can't see the offers being that low and I'd imagine Philly would want NBA players rather than picks. I wonder if they are looking for a decent wing in return for Simmons and all the offers are for players like CJ McCollum. I can't see moving a decent wing for him. Would people trade Jerami Grant for Ben Simmons? If you could take one on the C's, which would you take?

Somewhat related: If this offseason doesn't inspire Simmons to start taking 3s in NBA games, nothing will.
I agree -- mine was purely a hypothetical scenario. Unless Simmons declares a "preferred destination" that scares off the rest of the league, multiple teams bidding against each other should produce an offer that is above the threshold.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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This article says that PHI owes Ben 1/2 of his contract on October 1 - $16.1M. https://www.sportscasting.com/ben-simmons-make-16-1-million-if-sixers-bungle-trade-value/
Aaron Rodgers?

I think Philly intends to trade Simmons, but the scenario where the team does has leverage is if the offer is so low that you don't really care if you lose it. Pretend the return is one top 15 protected pick and a shitty contract -- at that point I'd take a chance that someone will come along and trump that, and if it lead to an ugly holdout, so be it.
I think CC meant the NBA.

There's enough interest that Morey can get a reasonable return for Simmons. He's not getting a Godfather offer - All-Star player plus control of 4 draft picks. He's overwhelmingly unlikely not to get Dame or Beal. Frankly, he's not going to "win" the trade.

But from all indications, he can get useful players that would probably help PHI over the next couple of years. Which seems to me a whole lot better than pursuing his Great Whale of a trade.
 

EvilEmpire

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Good for Morey. If there isn't a good offer, don't cave. The situation is already terrible, sure, but honestly I think a lot of Philly fans will be more angry if Simmons gets what he wants and the team is screwed with a lousy return. Angry, vengeful sorts, they are.

I don't know how NBA players will see it, but I suspect that most may not hold it against Philly so much given the length of the contract and more importantly, how charmin soft and unprofessional Simmons is. He's talented, but I don't think he is respected the way Harden is.

Edit: I don't think the offers are so great that they won't be there later.

2nd Edit: The opinion they probably care about most is Embiid. Wonder what he really thinks.
 
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Devizier

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I feel like we are getting to the point where we might see Simmons moved for a pile of garbage and a boatload of draft picks. There’s still some leverage because a lot of teams have bloated garbage and draft picks beyond Houston/Wall. Off the top of my head there’s Kristaps who has been shopped forever.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Good point on the salary floor, though not quite sure how that plays out in practical terms. I guess the net is that they likely don't save any money this year, right? Whatever comes off the buyout would just have to get redistributed to remaining players to get up to the floor. If that's the case, their position makes sense--might as well wait and see. I wonder if their theory is less a positive asset for Wall than 'something better than eating $47 mil' which is likely some other bad contract but who fits their team a little. Illustratively, Horford or someone like that. Still tough to see for me.

On Simmons, have to imagine Morey knows the offers out there and that at least some of them are not likely to disappear. I don't think his leverage has ever been from a threat that Simmons would stay---instead, it has been (and I think remains) that for any given team his leverage is that a different team is offering more. I don't think that dynamic will really change....though I acknowledge it's a pretty unique situation.
 

Euclis20

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Name one player who requested a trade and wasn't traded soon after. Players have all the power.
Name one player who demanded a trade with 4 years left on their contract. If Philly trades him for a below market return then there really is no limit to how early a player can demand a trade, other than perhaps a rookie looking at 7-8 years of control.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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People are really scraping the bottom of the history barrel to find examples of star players who were held hostage by their clubs. Morey may well decide that having a disgruntled Simmons on his roster and perhaps - if they can smooth things over - the locker room but from the outside, that seems pretty tough. I get that length of contract is a factor but I would also argue that NBA contract length is not just about team control or players locking in income. All of the rules around salaries (e.g. cap, max, length) also drive the durations of contracts.

As such, it really feels as if the league views contracts in terms of asset/liability management (i.e. everything should be viewed as somewhat fungible) versus pure player control.
 

Jimbodandy

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Lex has it right above. Morey is a fucking wildcard. Any "player's league" and "yeah but Klutch" takes need to keep that in mind. The man has stared death in the face. Regardless of whether it's the smart thing to so or not, he's not going to roll over.
 

Kliq

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I think it remains an issue where Simmons is such an unusual player in that teams value him radically differently. Simmons is not Hakeem, or Kobe, or Garnett. He is a massive question mark that makes organizations unsure about what exactly they are getting. He really isn't a "star" player in the traditional sense of the word. It's different than say, Dame Lillard being on the trade block. Teams all know what Dame is and what he can bring to the table, it is just a matter of being willing to pay a big enough price for him. With Simmons there is likely a lot more variance on what he brings, he isn't an established player in the league really at all.
 

ManicCompression

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I'm under the impression that Simmons also can't just opt out of the season without penalty - if he doesn't play, he won't get paid. The Wall and Blake and Drummond situations are different because team and player agreed that it was in both of their interests to not play. Philly could use what Simmons offers in the regular season and nothing will raise his value more than the stat padding he can do against the Detroit Pistons of the world.

He might try to pull a Harden and just totally give up on the court, but it seems like most everyone (even Harden) was in agreement as to how embarrassing that was for the player. It's also not in his interest to do that because, unlike Harden, the league isn't unanimous that he has the talent propel a team to a championship.

To me, Simmons and Klutch have no leverage beyond the press to get a trade done and Morey has no leverage over the league to get the trade he wants. This could easily stalemate to the trade deadline - I could see Chicago trapped under .500 after mortgaging their future and then deciding to trade Lavine for him (if they think ZL is going to leave in FA).
 

nighthob

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Chicago’s an interesting scenario, but I’m not sure that Simmons and DeRozan can coexist on the floor.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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If you look at this bloodlessly and without sports fanatic eyes, it becomes a lot simpler.

The 76ers have a somewhat tough to value employee who no longer serves their needs. Keeping the employee on the payroll doesn't cost them anything extra but it may have deleterious effects to their organization's goals. On the other side, the employee no longer wants to work for that organization. In short, it feels like its in everyone's best interest to part ways assuming it can be accomplished in reasonable fashion. Perhaps there are those here who don't agree but that is another discussion.

So assuming that you buy that its best for both sides to move on, now we are on to price. It makes sense that this may take time given the aforementioned difficulty in valuing Simmons production. Morey's marketing aside, Simmons is still likely to be elsewhere in the next few months because the cost of keeping him around may quickly overwhelm the benefits of holding on to him in the hopes of getting a better deal.

Edit: to clarify, some sports fans seem to think that professional player contracts are unique. They really aren't in the pure economic sense.
 
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nighthob

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I think we can all agree that Morey screwed the pooch in the Harden situation. Given how he managed his exit from Houston (telling the owner that he was burnt out and needed some time off to get an official release from his contract followed by taking a new job the next day sparing Philly from having to compensate Houston) he should have bitten the bullet and paid full price rather than dickering around over roleplayers. Houston would probably have given them a better one (like Danuel House) in order to secure 100 cents on the dollar for Harden. But after last year and the playoffs teams are seeeing the difficulty of building a team around Simmons.

Indiana kinda/sorta fits as Sabonis or Turner act as floor spacers on offense allowing BS to run the offense as a point center (more or less), while Simmons plays the big wing spot on D. The problem is that they'd have to deal one of Turner or Sabonis and neither guy really fits with Embiid. Despite his "awesomeness" I doubt the Sixers have any interest in LaVert's injury problems as the centerpiece. Which would leave them trying to find a Sabonis trade that produces the necessary talent for Philly.

Morey has his work cut out for him.
 

JM3

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Sabonis really can't space the floor particularly effectively & I'm starting to wonder if Turner is actually a useful shooter.

But yeah, it wouldn't be a bad fit & I think basically any Simmons trade should involve at least 3 teams.
 

Kliq

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Sabonis really can't space the floor particularly effectively & I'm starting to wonder if Turner is actually a useful shooter.

But yeah, it wouldn't be a bad fit & I think basically any Simmons trade should involve at least 3 teams.
Yeah Sabonis only shot 32% from three last season. He might hit some open threes, but if you have him in that role you are also limiting two of his absolute best skills, which are his rebounding and his playmaking from the elbows.
 

shoelace

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In short, it feels like its in everyone's best interest to part ways assuming it can be accomplished in reasonable fashion. Perhaps there are those here who don't agree but that is another discussion.
I don't think anyone disagrees with anything you've said in this post. I think what some folks are saying is that Morey is not going to trade Simmons for an unreasonable return. I understand the argument that refusing to trade him may alienate other players and make them unwilling to play for the Sixers, etc. But, trading away an All-Star for dogshit because Rich Paul Klutch Player Empowerment or whatever will have the same result because the team will be materially worse with no clear pathway to getting better.

Personally, I would hope that even if Morey wanted to trade Simmons for an objectively bad package, Silver would veto it. I don't think that is the likely outcome, but you would think many owners in less desirable markets would not want a precedent being set that players can sign a 5-year extension and then say "Fuck it, I'm out" after one year and get essentially nothing in return. As a Celtics fan, obviously part of me hopes that a divsional rival gets a poor return in a trade, but I also don't want to see this type of precedent set for a variety of reasons. Maybe it will happen and the spin will be that Simmons wasn't worth much because of his flaws and the difficulty in finding the right situation for him or whatever, but to me there is more at stake here than just the Sixers and Ben Simmons' happiness.
 

JM3

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I think bottom line Morey will end up trading Simmons for an OK package & everyone will move on with their lives. Just a matter of when & where.

The other obstacle with some of these rando destinations is will Simmons want to show up there either?

Idk. A few years ago I would have been appalled by this, but now I just shrug. Teams can trade players with 4 years on their contract any time they want (in fact, the 76ers tried to trade Simmons last year). Without players having some autonomy, it's a really 1-sided system.
 

benhogan

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I've got Young King ending up on the Kings.

Sacramento has the guard assets, salaries, West Coast location and the need to play defense

NBA players have the power and their agents have known how to work it since the David Falk days. If you're going to cap the top players' salaries by years + amount. AND those deals are clearly many teams best assets, then I have zero issue with players/agents exhibiting that power
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I don't think anyone disagrees with anything you've said in this post. I think what some folks are saying is that Morey is not going to trade Simmons for an unreasonable return. I understand the argument that refusing to trade him may alienate other players and make them unwilling to play for the Sixers, etc. But, trading away an All-Star for dogshit because Rich Paul Klutch Player Empowerment or whatever will have the same result because the team will be materially worse with no clear pathway to getting better.

Personally, I would hope that even if Morey wanted to trade Simmons for an objectively bad package, Silver would veto it. I don't think that is the likely outcome, but you would think many owners in less desirable markets would not want a precedent being set that players can sign a 5-year extension and then say "Fuck it, I'm out" after one year and get essentially nothing in return. As a Celtics fan, obviously part of me hopes that a divsional rival gets a poor return in a trade, but I also don't want to see this type of precedent set for a variety of reasons. Maybe it will happen and the spin will be that Simmons wasn't worth much because of his flaws and the difficulty in finding the right situation for him or whatever, but to me there is more at stake here than just the Sixers and Ben Simmons' happiness.
Entirely fair. Where we may differ is that I don't see Morey making a *bad* deal precisely because Simmons is so hard to value. I have no clue what the future holds but I am pretty confident that any Simmons trade is going to be extremely polarizing here and well beyond. There may be blood.
 

JM3

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How about a Brandon Ingram for Ben Simmons swap?
I thought about that the other day, but couldn't decide if Zion/Ben was an awesome combo or a disastrous combo.

If the Pels insisted on playing them with an actual center as well, it would be a disaster, & I'm not sure either can really play C credibly.
 

ManicCompression

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This is a wild ass, never going to happen trade idea - but what about Simmons + assets going out for Paul George?

For Sixers:
- Better shot creator, better shooter, less of a defender but still good when he needs to turn it up, and they're not really sacrificing size or switchability

For Clippers:
- They're downgrading, but they're adding youth and extending their window (as now they won't fall off a cliff in two years), they get a superior defender and someone who'd really flourish in their all shooting lineups, and I think he'd be okay with Kawhi because he's not focused on getting his own buckets. Plus they'd get some draft capital that they could use to upgrade from Luke Kennard (or someone else)
 

JM3

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This is a wild ass, never going to happen trade idea - but what about Simmons + assets going out for Paul George?

For Sixers:
- Better shot creator, better shooter, less of a defender but still good when he needs to turn it up, and they're not really sacrificing size or switchability

For Clippers:
- They're downgrading, but they're adding youth and extending their window (as now they won't fall off a cliff in two years), they get a superior defender and someone who'd really flourish in their all shooting lineups, and I think he'd be okay with Kawhi because he's not focused on getting his own buckets. Plus they'd get some draft capital that they could use to upgrade from Luke Kennard (or someone else)
The version of that trade I've seen is Simmons/Thybulle/2 1sts/+ for PG.

I don't think I'm interested unless Kawhi realllllly wants to play with Ben for some reason.

PG is going to have to carry this year & they owe their unprotected 1st & things could get kinda ugly this year trying to integrate BS with no Kawhi.
 

JM3

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Hmm what about...

Simmons
Thybulle
Seth
Maxey
'22 1st unprotected
'23 pick swap

For...

PG
Kennard

Clippers save $6m which has big tax implications, gets off bad Kennard contract & adds several usable role players.

76ers get to build around Embiid/PG/Tobias.

The trade I saw had them giving up '22 & '24 1sts, but they can't give up '24 because they owe Thunder '25.
 

nighthob

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I've got Young King ending up on the Kings.

Sacramento has the guard assets, salaries, West Coast location and the need to play defense

NBA players have the power and their agents have known how to work it since the David Falk days. If you're going to cap the top players' salaries by years + amount. AND those deals are clearly many teams best assets, then I have zero issue with players/agents exhibiting that power
Honestly I think that the T’wolves make the most sense once Minnesota finally bites the bullet and makes an offer built around Russell (right now they’re offering Beasley, McDaniels (who I wouldn’t mind Boston converting Pritchard into), expiring salary and picks). KATman is the sort of center you need to work with Simmons and would probably be extra lethal playing with BS.

Assuming that the Gs around them kept improving their shooting then a Simmons/Townes team should be able to reach the playoffs. Simmons would be a considerable defensive upgrade for the ‘Wolves.
 

Jimbodandy

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Honestly I think that the T’wolves make the most sense once Minnesota finally bites the bullet and makes an offer built around Russell (right now they’re offering Beasley, McDaniels (who I wouldn’t mind Boston converting Pritchard into), expiring salary and picks). KATman is the sort of center you need to work with Simmons and would probably be extra lethal playing with BS.

Assuming that the Gs around them kept improving their shooting then a Simmons/Townes team should be able to reach the playoffs. Simmons would be a considerable defensive upgrade for the ‘Wolves.
I think that there a few guys on this forum who would be defensive upgrades on that team. This fit makes a ton of sense for them. Their defense is so fucking bad that who cares if Simmons is too chicken to take a shot in the fourth quarter. He'd still be an asset.
 

benhogan

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Honestly I think that the T’wolves make the most sense once Minnesota finally bites the bullet and makes an offer built around Russell (right now they’re offering Beasley, McDaniels (who I wouldn’t mind Boston converting Pritchard into), expiring salary & picks). KATman is the sort of center you need to work with Simmons and would probably be extra lethal playing with BS.

Assuming that the Gs around them kept improving their shooting then a Simmons/Townes team should be able to reach the playoffs. Simmons would be a considerable defensive upgrade for the ‘Wolves.
That would be a fantastic deal for the Wolves. I'm anti-DAR, so I'd be all over that.

Townes loves the perimeter. Would give him license to never venture past the FT line with BS owning the dunkers spot on offense
 

Euclis20

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Aug 3, 2004
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Imaginationland
I'm skeptical how much Simmons would improve Minnesota's defense. Any perimeter defender who has the safety of a rim protecting center plays with a massive edge - the downgrade from having Embiid (the second best defensive center in the league) to Towns (who is, to put it charitably, not good) is huge.

Not that he wouldn't be extremely helpful for the Wolves on that end, but I strongly suspect that Simmons would no longer be seen as a perennial DPOY candidate when he's not sharing the court with Embiid.
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
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KATman definitely makes the players around him worse defensively, but Minnesota's perimeter D is hot garbage to begin with. The situation is so dire that Jaden McDaniels was actually one of their better defensive Fs last year (I don't regret Boston missing out on Bane, I regret them missing out on McDaniels at #26, I bet that Udoka could turn him into a star). Simmons as a swing F would be a ginormous upgrade to their D.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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Hmm what about...

Simmons
Thybulle
Seth
Maxey
'22 1st unprotected
'23 pick swap

For...

PG
Kennard

Clippers save $6m which has big tax implications, gets off bad Kennard contract & adds several usable role players.

76ers get to build around Embiid/PG/Tobias.

The trade I saw had them giving up '22 & '24 1sts, but they can't give up '24 because they owe Thunder '25.
I could see that working for both sides unless PG is hung up staying close to home

If the Sexton trade rumors are true, maybe all parties would be satisfied with this Ben Simmons 3-team fake trade extravaganza:

PHI: McCollum + Sexton
POR: Simmons + Milton
CAVs: Maxey + Simons + protected 1st from POR
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
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Yeah, I can’t see why Cleveland is needed at all. Sexton’s McCollum’s MiniMe. That would seem a nightmarishly bad return for BS.

Ultimately I expect Morey to hold out for a better return and just not get it followed by another Philly playoff implosion and his dismissal. …









And the new GM sending BS to Boston for a package build around Richardson, Langford, whoever they acquire with the Fournier TPE, and draft picks.
 
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