2021-22 NBA Off-season Thread

Buster Olney the Lonely

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Minor correction. Rondo will turn 36 this season.

I’m fascinated by the Lakers this year and not just because of the age thing. Mostly interested in the Westbrook- LeBron dynamic. We’ve seen Russ play a less ball dominant role with Houston so we know it’s possible. Do we see the same with the Lakers?

I think they’ll be very good but not enough to pick the over 52.5.
 

Sam Ray Not

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I’m not even sure I’d pick the over on 47.5. The West is going to be as brutal as ever. The Lakers last year were crap on offense and great on D; and I worry they may have tanked their D by trading in the youth, length, and defensive versatility of Caruso, KCP, and Kuzma (their #7, 3 and 2 rotation players, respectively) to load up on ever more partially-washed name brands. And with so many new bodies coming in they’re gonna need to figure out some fairly complex chemistry issues on the fly.

As always with LeBron’s teams, they’ll go as far as he takes them; but he’s now 37 and not quite as indestructible as he once was. If he misses more than like 20 games, I could easily them getting bounced in the play-in round, as they almost did last year.

52-53 wins seems like a highly optimistic case to me, and absurdly high as an O/U, but what do I know…
 

BigSoxFan

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Woj reporting that NBA won’t be imposing vaccination for players. Supposedly, NBAPA is not on board and contesting. Same article states roughly 85% of players are vaccinated.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Woj reporting that NBA won’t be imposing vaccination for players. Supposedly, NBAPA is not on board and contesting. Same article states roughly 85% of players are vaccinated.
Do we have any other unvaccinated players aside from Schroeder? If the NBA is committed to making this as difficult on the teams and players as the NFL this could be a problem for us.
 

BigSoxFan

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Do we have any other unvaccinated players aside from Schroeder? If the NBA is committed to making this as difficult on the teams and players as the NFL this could be a problem for us.
Not that I'm aware of but agree that the NBA's strict protocol for unvaccinated players could be a real differentiating factor for some teams. I'd be curious to know about why the NBAPA was against it if 85% of the members are already vaccinated. Guessing its a bargaining chip but figured that would be one that you would want to give on in lieu of something else.
 

ifmanis5

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We have a clarification.
View: https://twitter.com/KyrieIrving/status/1438287856703737857

“Mask off” means You stop being something you’re not and stop lying to yourself. It’s the moment you discover the real you and can walk around with NO FEAR in a society that shows a lot of the masks people wear to hide who they truly are. *nothing COVID rule related!! Relax

Also, there are a few Kyrie trade rumors and other rumors that say Kyrie will retire if traded.
 

Kliq

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Kyrie is either keenly aware of how misleading tweeting "masks off" is or he is incredibly dumb. Neither would be surprising.
 

JM3

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I mean...he literally used the fingers crossed emoji which would basically signify that he's lying.
 

128

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Not really sure where to put this, but I thought this little addendum to the Last Dance about Luc Longley was pretty interesting if you have an hour to kill.

Finally got around to watching this, and it was sensational. Thanks for posting the link.
 

JM3

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John Wall+ for Ben Simmons would be an amazing denouement to this all.

Seriously, though, how are they going to trade Wall? Seems like a buyout thing.

Not playing Wall is smart either way in a let's tank way, though. Let the young guys cook.
 

moondog80

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John Wall+ for Ben Simmons would be an amazing denouement to this all.

Seriously, though, how are they going to trade Wall? Seems like a buyout thing.

Not playing Wall is smart either way in a let's tank way, though. Let the young guys cook.

Yeah, Wall is getting paid almost 47 million next season (as in, 2022-23). Buyout has to be the endgame here.

With the Westbrook off their books, Washington has been able to unload Wall for what looks like a somewhat positive return. Amazing.
 

cheech13

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Didn’t Kobe famously request a trade and not get it? It’s been a while but it has happened.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Seriously, though, how are they going to trade Wall? Seems like a buyout thing.
Another article I saw said that HOU is not interested in buying out Wall this year. I would guess a large part of this is because without Wall, HOU won't be at the salary floor so any Wall buyout would have to pick up the extra amounts HOU will pay this year and next year. I also think HOU is still holding out hope that they get some kind of asset for Wall.

Good luck with that.
 

JM3

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My understanding is that the Kobe thing was mutual in 2007, but he had a no trade & refused to go to Detroit. The trade would have been Rip/Prince/Amir/1st.

They reportedly had an agreement with the Bulls for Deng/Tyrus/Ben Gordon/Noah, but Kobe refused to go to Chicago if Deng left, so the trade broke down.

& they also tried to trade him to the Cavs, but the Cavs refused to give up LeBron.

Also, this was 14 years ago, but they definitely tried to honor his wishes at least to some extent.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Hakeem is the one guy I can remember where the team just said "no" and stuck to it and it worked out in the end. That was a very different era...
 

JM3

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Hakeem is the one guy I can remember where the team just said "no" and stuck to it and it worked out in the end. That was a very different era...
Rockets turned down such monster packages of Seikaly/Long/Miner & Kersey/Duckworth/Abdelnaby for him.

Then he suffered a hamstring injury that the Rockets claimed in the press was fake. Then they just went ahead & gave him a big raise so he was getting paid like Admiral & Ewing & everyone lived happily ever after.
 

Buster Olney the Lonely

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JM3

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Both Zach Lowe & Tjarks suggested the same thing as the only realistic Wall destination today...

Clippers for Bledsoe/Kennard/Ibaka.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Both Zach Lowe & Tjarks suggested the same thing as the only realistic Wall destination today...

Clippers for Bledsoe/Kennard/Ibaka.
Wall and Bledsoe reuniting from their old Kentucky days…….well, maybe they can meet in passing at the airport anyway.
 

JM3

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Realistically though, I'm not sure how that's better for the Rockets than just not playing Wall or buying him out.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Is Klutch pushing to get him moved? A $44m vacation sounds nice & gives him plenty of time to rest his damaged body.
Wall has played 110 games since the spring of 2017. His body is would seem to be fresher than most 31-year olds in this league. Usage my sometimes overused position of “Players play every day”, I wouldn’t think Wall is ready to retire and is looking for a home to rebuild his value over these next two years prior to hitting the market. It is hard to judge where his game is after only 40 games in a clusterfvck with Houston but in a better situation I'd have a hard time believing he can't be an effective player in this league.
 

128

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Wall has played 110 games since the spring of 2017. His body is would seem to be fresher than most 31-year olds in this league. Usage my sometimes overused position of “Players play every day”, I wouldn’t think Wall is ready to retire and is looking for a home to rebuild his value over these next two years prior to hitting the market. It is hard to judge where his game is after only 40 games in a clusterfvck with Houston but in a better situation I'd have a hard time believing he can't be an effective player in this league.
It's a little reminiscent of the Derrick Rose situation. There was a lot of talk about how Rose was washed up, and he's had a nice second life in New York. He's definitely been a Celtic-killer.
 

JM3

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Wall has played 110 games since the spring of 2017. His body is would seem to be fresher than most 31-year olds in this league. Usage my sometimes overused position of “Players play every day”, I wouldn’t think Wall is ready to retire and is looking for a home to rebuild his value over these next two years prior to hitting the market. It is hard to judge where his game is after only 40 games in a clusterfvck with Houston but in a better situation I'd have a hard time believing he can't be an effective player in this league.
He has his whole $47m season to increase his value.

But yeah, I don't think he'd hate playing, but it doesn't really seem like the thing worth strong-arming over.
 

TripleOT

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Waiting on the Rockets mothballing John Wall until the trade deadline, and if they can’t move him, buying him out then so he can join the Lakers for the minumum
 

Swedgin

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Waiting on the Rockets mothballing John Wall until the trade deadline, and if they can’t move him, buying him out then so he can join the Lakers for the minumum
I think that only happens if Wall is willing to give up some real dollars. Tillman is not exactly flush. If there is buyout, either Wall needs to sacrifice or find a MLE deal somewhere to offset.
 

radsoxfan

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I think that only happens if Wall is willing to give up some real dollars. Tillman is not exactly flush. If there is buyout, either Wall needs to sacrifice or find a MLE deal somewhere to offset.
Wall's knee looks like Kemba's and a similar outcome would make sense. Wall isn't totally useless at the moment, but he's also of course WAY overpaid as a max superstar.

He might be worth a "Kemba on the Knicks" type contract, and I'm sure the Rockets would be happy to buy him out with some type of reasonable offseason like that.

The only trades they can make will be some combination of smaller but also hideous contracts or they will have to give up a lot of draft capital.
 

benhogan

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I think that only happens if Wall is willing to give up some real dollars. Tillman is not exactly flush. If there is buyout, either Wall needs to sacrifice or find a MLE deal somewhere to offset.
Everything done in Houston has to go under the Tillman Fertitta lens. He's a rascal (to put it nicely). I wouldn't expect that franchise to do much with him as owner. At the end of the day, it will be about lining his pocket. The NBA version of Frank McCourt
 

HomeRunBaker

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Pet Peeve of the Day: NBA talking heads discussing big name players on the move and insist on wasting their breath explaining how John Wall is only under contract for one more year and has a Player Option for ‘22-‘23. Trying to envision scenarios where Wall doesn’t exercise that $47m option…….struggling here. LOL!

Glad I got that off my chest.
 

benhogan

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Pet Peeve of the Day: NBA talking heads discussing big name players on the move and insist on wasting their breath explaining how John Wall is only under contract for one more year and has a Player Option for ‘22-‘23. Trying to envision scenarios where Wall doesn’t exercise that $47m option…….struggling here. LOL!

Glad I got that off my chest.
I know this is in your wheelhouse

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264116/Duncd-On-Western-Conference-Over-Unders-2021-22-and-Best-Bets
 

HomeRunBaker

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Thanks for posting. It’s nearly two hours long so I’ll have to break that down into a couple listens. I haven’t even looked at a total yet but my initial angle is to look toward the WC to fade the Warriors and possibly Lakers (again I haven’t seen a number but assume they will be overvalued) which will also open up some Overs elsewhere. Thanks again.
 

JM3

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There are actually other situations beyond the binary you posed. If the Sixers don't have to pay the guy real world dollars and their fans support that because they think that ownership are the good guys (as they typically do!), they can let him sit until the contract runs out or until he's forced to return to the team having not gotten the thing he requested.

I don't even think your Situation B is remotely possible. The Sixers know that he's a liability and that they need a different roster construction in order to get pas the second round - that's why they've been talking about trading him all summer, right? Do you really think they'd get hypnotized into thinking "oh yeah, this'll work now" after a good start to the regular season? Obviously the Sixers are not a better regular season team without him, but they should be well aware of their ceiling with him by now.
If the 76ers want to be worse at basketball, that's cool? If the fans want to support that, good for them?

Of course it's not binary. The further toward the 76ers being better off without him than with him, though, the more likely he will be traded. Harden did that by making a mockery of his teammates & protocols, & Simmons is doing it by not reporting.

What's the upside to backing down now? There are consequences to the 76ers to sitting with Simmons on their roster not playing, including wasting Joel's prime & alienating swaths of powerful players/agents.

I just don't see "playing to increase his trade value" aligning with his long term goals.
 

the moops

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Question that may be very dumb - what are the luxury tax implications of Simmons sitting out? They're about $5 million over, so if they're not actually paying that salary to a player, does this let them duck under?
The tax isn't calculated until the end of the year. If he wasn't paid and sat out the entirety of the year, then yes, I guess they would duck the tax
 

JM3

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Where Zion is going to end up is the next (& most interesting) question after Simmons/Beal/LaVine get resolved.