Ben Simmons wants out of Philadelphia

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Auger34

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I believe the story was that either Morey didn't want to deal with Harden after having him in Houston or that the Fertita's didn't want to deal Harden to Morey, who they obviously had a big falling out with.
It was Feritita didn’t want to trade with Morey. From all reports Morey really wanted to trade for Harden
 

HomeRunBaker

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iirc Olajuwon tried it with a lot of years left on his deal in the late 80s, and the Rockets were just like "nah", and eventually rebuilt the team and won titles.

Edit: it was after the 92 season
That was a different time than today.
 

Jimbodandy

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Morey has to move him and Paul's boss is one of the most powerful people in the NBA so at some point their incentives will align. Its easy for me to forget that these people seem to view each other as peers and coworkers moreso than rivals though that almost certainly exists too.

Regardless, these days it seems to be almost market standard to accede to a player's wishes.
You remain steadfast on this platform, and I admire you for it.

Morey almost got fired by the People Republic of China like a year ago. He built smurfball in Houston. He just got the job in Philly and isn't going to roll over for Rich Paul until he has exhausted his options.

Not every circumstance is similar. In the end, Paul will have their ear, it might help. Simmons will definitely be traded. Paul isn't setting the timeline though.
 

JM3

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I mean, he is going to roll over & it's more of a matter of when than if.

Teams who aren't on the list, & can't get on the list even if they inquire, aren't going to be making serious offers for the opportunity to acquire a disgruntled Ben Simmons & anger RP.

Morey has never even won a title & he's far less unique than when he started. Other people can do what he does & greater in terms of analytics, & be more personable. He's not some made man who can go against the player empowerment era.
 

benhogan

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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263985/Kings-Unlikely-To-Include-DeAaron-Fox-Or-Tyrese-Haliburton-In-Offer-For-Ben-Simmons

I loved Haliburton in the draft/rookie season BUT declaring him off-limits in regards to Simmons is crazy Kings' talk.

If they could add Ben for Haliburton/Hield/TT+ picks(s), that would be a tremendous deal for the KIngs (no chance 76ers do that)

With a month before the season, the combo of Simmons, Rich Paul, Daryl Morey and West Coast GMs going at it should provide decent theater.
 

JM3

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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263985/Kings-Unlikely-To-Include-DeAaron-Fox-Or-Tyrese-Haliburton-In-Offer-For-Ben-Simmons

I loved Haliburton in the draft/rookie season BUT declaring him off-limits in regards to Simmons is crazy Kings' talk.

If they could add Ben for Haliburton/Hield/TT+ picks(s), that would be a tremendous deal for the KIngs (no chance 76ers do that)

With a month before the season, the combo of Simmons, Rich Paul, Daryl Morey and West Coast GMs going at it should provide decent theater.
Sacramento would prefer to build a trade package around Buddy Hield, Marvin Begley III and other assets such as first round picks.
Hopefully Marvin Begley >>> Marvin Bagley.

This is the right messaging for the Kings to be putting out publicly. If Fox & Haliburton actually like being there, you don't want to discourage that.

They probably aren't even on the list & the chance to say these guys are basically untouchable does a lot to inspire loyalty, unlike when the messaging is that your guys are readily available.

It's not like the 76ers aren't going to hit them up 1 last time before making a trade either, so if they actually like the deal enough, they can include 1 only in the scenario where they're actually getting Simmons.

Also, the worse your public offers are, the more it does to keep perception down & hopefully keep other team's offers low.
 

HomeRunBaker

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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263985/Kings-Unlikely-To-Include-DeAaron-Fox-Or-Tyrese-Haliburton-In-Offer-For-Ben-Simmons

I loved Haliburton in the draft/rookie season BUT declaring him off-limits in regards to Simmons is crazy Kings' talk.

If they could add Ben for Haliburton/Hield/TT+ picks(s), that would be a tremendous deal for the KIngs (no chance 76ers do that)

With a month before the season, the combo of Simmons, Rich Paul, Daryl Morey and West Coast GMs going at it should provide decent theater.
It would take a lot for me to move Hali off his cheap rookie contract. As good as Simmons is I’m never including Hali in that deal.
 

TripleOT

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It would take a lot for me to move Hali off his cheap rookie contract. As good as Simmons is I’m never including Hali in that deal.
Buddy, TT, and Hali for Simmons is a good deal for the Kings. These NBA dollar for three quarters and a dime trades are more likely than a trade of all stars. I don’t think Morey will be able to trade a dollar for a dollar, even a Dame one, but this deal gets him a possible future all star on a rookie deal, and a shooter who can spread the floor. If Philly gets a better package than this one, I will be surprised.
 

JCizzle

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Buddy, TT, and Hali for Simmons is a good deal for the Kings. These NBA dollar for three quarters and a dime trades are more likely than a trade of all stars. I don’t think Morey will be able to trade a dollar for a dollar, even a Dame one, but this deal gets him a possible future all star on a rookie deal, and a shooter who can spread the floor. If Philly gets a better package than this one, I will be surprised.
Is Simmons really a dollar though? He might be more than a quarter in this analogy, but he's a very flawed player that has shown minimal desire to improve his game on the offensive end.
 

cheech13

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Is Simmons really a dollar though? He might be more than a quarter in this analogy, but he's a very flawed player that has shown minimal desire to improve his game on the offensive end.
His shooting is a major flaw and the last time we saw him he choked on a national stay, but in four seasons he has three All-Star appearances and an All-NBA selection. That’s a very good, even borderline elite level of performance.
 

Cellar-Door

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Ben Simmons is getting underrated now I think. He's a poor fit with Embiid, but he's a really good player (better than Draymond by a lot). I'm not surprised he wants out, it's a bad on-court fit, and he has both a coach and a fellow star who both have the same go to move when the team fails, which is to find someone else to passive-agressively blame, and that guy was Simmons. He should try to force his way out, he'll be in a much better situation almost anywhere else.
 

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Ben Simmons is getting underrated now I think. He's a poor fit with Embiid, but he's a really good player (better than Draymond by a lot). I'm not surprised he wants out, it's a bad on-court fit, and he has both a coach and a fellow star who both have the same go to move when the team fails, which is to find someone else to passive-agressively blame, and that guy was Simmons. He should try to force his way out, he'll be in a much better situation almost anywhere else.
100% agree.

I have always had the mind that he will succeed somewhere in his career, he just needs to find the right system. Philly clearly wasn't the place. Up until recently I thought most people felt the same way.
 

bowiac

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They surrounded Simmons with 45%, 41%, 39%, and 38% three point shooters this year. I am skeptical of the "bad fit" explanation with him. Short of like, the Nets, I can't think of a better fit for him. The situation isn't the problem. His skillset is.
 

Kliq

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They surrounded Simmons with 45%, 41%, 39%, and 38% three point shooters this year. I am skeptical of the "bad fit" explanation with him. Short of like, the Nets, I can't think of a better fit for him. The situation isn't the problem. His skillset is.
I don't think it's a skillset issue, he is a superbly skilled player. It's a mentality issue; he does not seem to be wired at the level NBA stars need to be at to maximize their ability. He doesn't have the alpha mentality on-the-court to understand when to take over games and when to be aggressive on offense, and he doesn't appear to have the mentality off the court to improve his weaknesses that have become more and more exploitable the longer he has been in the league.

He is a very unusual player, and I can see NBA executives ranging in evaluations of him, from some thinking he is worth trading an All-Star player for, to others who don't want him under any circumstances.
 

Euclis20

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I don't think it's a skillset issue, he is a superbly skilled player. It's a mentality issue; he does not seem to be wired at the level NBA stars need to be at to maximize their ability. He doesn't have the alpha mentality on-the-court to understand when to take over games and when to be aggressive on offense, and he doesn't appear to have the mentality off the court to improve his weaknesses that have become more and more exploitable the longer he has been in the league.

He is a very unusual player, and I can see NBA executives ranging in evaluations of him, from some thinking he is worth trading an All-Star player for, to others who don't want him under any circumstances.
Plus, he allows his weaknesses to bury the rest of his game when it matters. He completely disappeared late in games against Atlanta because he was terrified of being fouled. Compare this to Giannis, who has similar issues shooting and at the FT line. Like Simmons, Giannis was happy to defer to shooters (Middleton) late in games, but he stays active. Setting screens, getting rebounds, cutting for layups and dunks, being a terror on defense. In Game 5, Giannis missed a free throw that would have clinched the game in the closing seconds...and he got the offensive rebound to clinch the game anyway. No way in hell Simmons does that.

I don't know if a change of scenery helps shake him loose, but at this point I'm confident that things aren't changing in Philly, even if he chooses to stay and play.
 

Kliq

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Plus, he allows his weaknesses to bury the rest of his game when it matters. He completely disappeared late in games against Atlanta because he was terrified of being fouled. Compare this to Giannis, who has similar issues shooting and at the FT line. Like Simmons, Giannis was happy to defer to shooters (Middleton) late in games, but he stays active. Setting screens, getting rebounds, cutting for layups and dunks, being a terror on defense. In Game 5, Giannis missed a free throw that would have clinched the game in the closing seconds...and he got the offensive rebound to clinch the game anyway. No way in hell Simmons does that.

I don't know if a change of scenery helps shake him loose, but at this point I'm confident that things aren't changing in Philly, even if he chooses to stay and play.
That is what I mean when it comes to Simmons lacking the alpha-mentality that other NBA stars have. Giannis is the complete opposite in that he literally doesn't care if he airballs a shot, or misses his free throws; he is going to try even HARDER if he screws up. How many times did opposing players and fans try and get in his head with the free throw violations? He didn't care, he stayed committed to his routine and in the end, he made 16-18 in the most important game of the season. Simmons' reluctance to shoot, his fear of getting to the line, his inability to really impact the game on the offensive end, are all signs that run counter to what we think of when we think of elite NBA players. They are the most confident people in our society and are never afraid of the key moments, in fact the great ones relish that opportunity.

Simmons has an incredible skillset. He has incredible size, athleticism, ball-handling, court vision and defensive instincts. He is one of the most talented players in the NBA. All of his issues are between the ears, and that is really hard to judge because we have no idea if he will "get it" or if he is just another very talented player who doesn't have the mental makeup to reach his potential. The NBA is filled with people who have superstar talent but never reach their ceilings because they lack the additional superstar drive and attitude to maximize their ability.
 

Euclis20

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Just more evidence (good and bad) that he's tall Rondo, but even worse at shooting. Rondo's free throw issues got so bad that he stopped attacking the rim because he was afraid of going to the line. Through age 25 when he was just hitting his prime (2012), his FTR was .300. Since then, it's just .135.
 

Swedgin

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That is what I mean when it comes to Simmons lacking the alpha-mentality that other NBA stars have. Giannis is the complete opposite in that he literally doesn't care if he airballs a shot, or misses his free throws; he is going to try even HARDER if he screws up. How many times did opposing players and fans try and get in his head with the free throw violations? He didn't care, he stayed committed to his routine and in the end, he made 16-18 in the most important game of the season. Simmons' reluctance to shoot, his fear of getting to the line, his inability to really impact the game on the offensive end, are all signs that run counter to what we think of when we think of elite NBA players. They are the most confident people in our society and are never afraid of the key moments, in fact the great ones relish that opportunity.

Simmons has an incredible skillset. He has incredible size, athleticism, ball-handling, court vision and defensive instincts. He is one of the most talented players in the NBA. All of his issues are between the ears, and that is really hard to judge because we have no idea if he will "get it" or if he is just another very talented player who doesn't have the mental makeup to reach his potential. The NBA is filled with people who have superstar talent but never reach their ceilings because they lack the additional superstar drive and attitude to maximize their ability.
Well said. All of which makes Minny and the Kings likely trade partners. I just cannot see how a GM of a team with championship aspirations sells itself on Simmons to the point they are willing to give up assets that Morey would accept. However, if just making the playoffs or even the play-in counts as success then Ben is your guy.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Simmons fit may not just be a basketball issue. Given what we know about NBA culture - and as Kliq points out, the elite players tend to be wired to never defer, even when its the right play, because who could do it better? - its a fair to wonder if certain star players may not want him on their team. If so, that limits his market as well.

He is still likely to be dealt and while his value is difficult to ascertain for all the aforementioned reasons, I fully expect there to be posts definitively calling any final trade package both an overpay as well as a steal in short order. Perhaps by the very same people who acknowledge Simmons fairly unique attributes.
 

BigSoxFan

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That Simmons pass under the basket instead of the easy dunk will stick with me like the Cam non-attempt at the fumble recovery against Denver. It’s mostly mental with him so there is a natural cap on his effectiveness if he can’t improve in that area.
 

Jimbodandy

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That Simmons pass under the basket instead of the easy dunk will stick with me like the Cam non-attempt at the fumble recovery against Denver. It’s mostly mental with him so there is a natural cap on his effectiveness if he can’t improve in that area.
If it were one play in a sea of normal activity on his part, that's one thing. But we were already having a national conversation about how the man was scared to shoot the ball in fourth quarters of multiple playoff games and THEN he did that. Fucked up.
 

bowiac

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Well said. All of which makes Minny and the Kings likely trade partners. I just cannot see how a GM of a team with championship aspirations sells itself on Simmons to the point they are willing to give up assets that Morey would accept. However, if just making the playoffs or even the play-in counts as success then Ben is your guy.
This is roughly my view. I do think it's a skillset issue with SImmons (rather than lack of 'aggression' or whatever), but he remains a good player for a team without championship aspirations. The Sixers are about the best case scenario for him as a key piece on a contender, but there are a lot of teams just happy to be a 4 or 5 seed most years that could use him. I expect him to fetch a good return from one of those teams.

I would be surprised if a contender dealt for him by contrast.
 

Swedgin

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This is roughly my view. I do think it's a skillset issue with SImmons (rather than lack of 'aggression' or whatever), but he remains a good player for a team without championship aspirations. The Sixers are about the best case scenario for him as a key piece on a contender, but there are a lot of teams just happy to be a 4 or 5 seed most years that could use him. I expect him to fetch a good return from one of those teams.

I would be surprised if a contender dealt for him by contrast.
One assumes Morey wants to wait to see what happens with Dame and Beal. If nothing is percolating on either front before the start of the season, then maybe its: Russell, Beasley and a couple of firsts for Simmons and salary fodder, with the goal of using the MN firsts to acquire another player when the guys Philly just signed are eligible to be dealt as matching salary if need be.

On the Rich Paul front, assuming the Maxey leak came from his camp (as opposed to some 3-D chess from Morey) that strikes me as a real tactical error. It is clear Morey wants to move Simmons. So Paul is not "forcing a trade." But if Paul/Simmons aggressively try to force Morey's hand on timing (actually refusing to report, faking an injury, publicly stating that he will only play with teams x, y and z), then the league is going to intervene (officially or otherwise).

Simmons is in a different situation from Harden or AD (about which there was already a fair amount of hand wringing even though both franchises got solid returns). Simmons has 4 years left on his deal. That current contract is the extension of his rookie deal. Rookie contracts and restricted free agency are essential to non-marquee destination franchises. It is basically the only path to acquiring high end talent. Attempting to force a trade (or an unfavorable trade) of a guys on rookie scale contracts or in the first year of their rookie extension represents an existential threat to a majority of the franchises in the NBA.
 

benhogan

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Simmons is in a different situation from Harden or AD (about which there was already a fair amount of hand wringing even though both franchises got solid returns). Simmons has 4 years left on his deal. That current contract is the extension of his rookie deal. Rookie contracts and restricted free agency are essential to non-marquee destination franchises. It is basically the only path to acquiring high end talent. Attempting to force a trade (or an unfavorable trade) of a guys on rookie scale contracts or in the first year of their rookie extension represents an existential threat to a majority of the franchises in the NBA.
Good point. The league doesn't want Klutch to set the precedent here, but Simmon's situation is unique.

Do you think Klutch demands a trade if Doc/Embiid don't scapegoat BS in the post-game presser?

or do you think Klutch is using this as a convenient excuse to see if they can create a new paradigm in Agent/Player control?

probably botho_O
 
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JM3

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Random thought about something I don't think I've heard floated...

Doesn't Ben Simmons to the Wizards make some sense? They have a variety of contracts, all their picks, etc. & he seems like a really good fit with Beal.

Zards could give it a test run, & even if they end up having to trade Beal, they still have Simmons to build around.

Simmons for KCP/Harrell/Rui/Advija 2022 & 2024 1sts or something?
 

sezwho

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Random thought about something I don't think I've heard floated...

Doesn't Ben Simmons to the Wizards make some sense? They have a variety of contracts, all their picks, etc. & he seems like a really good fit with Beal.

Zards could give it a test run, & even if they end up having to trade Beal, they still have Simmons to build around.

Simmons for KCP/Harrell/Rui/Advija 2022 & 2024 1sts or something?
It’s so difficult to put a value on Simmons that you almost have to approach purely through the lens of retaining Beal.

If he’s a fan then see what it takes, as keeping the Wizards on Beal(e) Street would seemingly be Job #1, but otherwise do you really want to have bet your franchise you can build around Ben? I don’t think I would.
 

ManicCompression

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Random thought about something I don't think I've heard floated...

Doesn't Ben Simmons to the Wizards make some sense? They have a variety of contracts, all their picks, etc. & he seems like a really good fit with Beal.

Zards could give it a test run, & even if they end up having to trade Beal, they still have Simmons to build around.

Simmons for KCP/Harrell/Rui/Advija 2022 & 2024 1sts or something?
I feel like this is "equivalent value" for Simmons, but I don't know why Philly would do this trade because those pieces plus Embiid would make the team worse than it currently is. As flawed as Simmons can be, he still adds quite a bit on defense and helps win games in the regular season. Rui would need to take a pretty big leap to make this tempting for them.
 

Swedgin

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I feel like this is "equivalent value" for Simmons, but I don't know why Philly would do this trade because those pieces plus Embiid would make the team worse than it currently is. As flawed as Simmons can be, he still adds quite a bit on defense and helps win games in the regular season. Rui would need to take a pretty big leap to make this tempting for them.
I assume Morey's order of preference in a return for Simmons goes something like: 1) Star 2) Good players on not bad deals, which fit the current team and/or could be moved in a later deal to acquire a star along with a few picks and 3) boat load of picks.

As an iteration of #2, Philly should be able to do better. Harrell looks cooked. KCP is a valuable role player. Where this turns is Deni and Rui. I confess to not having invested much time watching Wizards basketball, so my sense of Rui and Deni's value is from the analysis of others. Like a new car driven off the lot, most picks outside the top of the lottery lose value once made. In other words, teams will value the #12 pick, than the player team X selected with that pick. Obviously, there are exceptions, for example Halliburton and our own PP, whose early play exceeds their draft slot. I don't think Rui is one of those exceptions. Less sure about Deni. I would think Morey would be looking for a package with either more established players, or in the case of guys on rookie deals, then players the league would look at as defintively positive assets.
 

JM3

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It's not a huge haul, but especially if the Wizards are willing to make the 1sts unprotected, or throw in some swaps or something, I think it's at least competitive with what other teams are offering.

& they could rope in a 3rd team who is willing to give up a good player for a chance at some Wizards picks or if they're higher on Rui/Deni.

Rui has been ~fine & Deni has kinda sucked.

Montrezl is 28, so he shouldn't really be cooked. His per 36 last year was 21/10 on 62% shooting.

I don't think the Wizards have a lot to lose trying to see if getting Simmons makes Beal happy (unless Beal says 'no'), & if not building around Simmons as a likely back up plan.

Simmons has been much better when he's the guy for his team instead of a guy, & even if it doesn't work out, at least they would have tried.

It's a lot less damaging for a treading water team to YOLO on Simmons & have it not work out than it is for a contender to do the same.

Not sure if he would add DC to his list, but apparently Kuzma was happy to be going there?

Nowhere really makes perfect sense for Simmons, or the 76ers.
 

JM3

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I take that back...Harrell doesn't turn 28 until January. I'm not a huge fan, but he definitely fulfills a role, especially in the regular season.
 

JM3

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While I'm in the Ben Simmons to random wildcard teams mode...

What about the Magic?

Jalen Suggs/Jon Isaac/Terrence Ross/'25 Nuggets 1st for Simmons/Maxey.
 

nighthob

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It's not a huge haul, but especially if the Wizards are willing to make the 1sts unprotected, or throw in some swaps or something, I think it's at least competitive with what other teams are offering.
They owe a first to the Thunder, so any firsts are far future ones and thus not a good deal for Philly. Deni looks like a bench depth only player, so the value would be Hachimura, whose timeline doesn't fit Embiid's. I think he will be a top 50 player, but he's a ways off yet.

I assume Morey's order of preference in a return for Simmons goes something like: 1) Star 2) Good players on not bad deals, which fit the current team and/or could be moved in a later deal to acquire a star along with a few picks and 3) boat load of picks.
A Simmons deal is going to be tough as OKC and New Orleans control about one third of all #1 picks over the next seven years. CJ McCollum is probably the most realistic target, but not one that it looks like they'll accept. They screwed up choosing Simmons over Butler a couple of years ago and then Simmons over Harden last winter. Now they've held him too long and his value's deflated (mostly due to his performance profile vs his actual production). They almost have to hold on to him and pray that he shows up and plays in hopes of rebuilding value. But this also involves wasting another year of Embiid's career. Morey really screwed the pooch here.
 

JM3

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I was skimming their outgoing & thought they were all 2nds going out (why do they hate 2nds so much???).

Yeah, that puts a huge wrench in it. They could do unrestricted swaps every year lol.

Random unrelated '22 1st round stuff - the Clippers 1st to the Thunder is unprotected this year, so they better hope PG stays healthy or that could be a serious pick.
 

ManicCompression

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Why not Simmons for Siakam + a first (or whatever trimmings needed to make it work)? Challenge trade and I'm not sure it matches w/ Toronto's timeline, but Siakam and Embiid are tight and Siakam can replicate some of the defense, transition offense, and physicality of Simmons while offering shooting (though not good shooting). The contracts are identical except Simmons runs a year longer.

That Toronto front court of Simmons and Barnes would be defensively a terror and offensively a nightmare in the half court, but Simmons working with FVV would pretty fun to watch.
 

JM3

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Why not Simmons for Siakam + a first (or whatever trimmings needed to make it work)? Challenge trade and I'm not sure it matches w/ Toronto's timeline, but Siakam and Embiid are tight and Siakam can replicate some of the defense, transition offense, and physicality of Simmons while offering shooting (though not good shooting). The contracts are identical except Simmons runs a year longer.

That Toronto front court of Simmons and Barnes would be defensively a terror and offensively a nightmare in the half court, but Simmons working with FVV would pretty fun to watch.
I've already heard Raptors rumblings (the BR thing I saw was Siakam + '22 & '24 1sts & '25 swap, but seems Phillysided). I was just making up new ones lol.

My initial thought is that Barnes & Simmons would be an awful fit together unless/until Barnes becomes an adequate shooter.

Would be interesting, though.
 

JM3

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While I was going down some rabbit holes I came across a Nick Wright suggestion of Simmons for Kyrie, which he says is super unlikely/impossible in the real world, but would make a lot of sense for both teams, & I kind of agree in terms of pure basketball.
 

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IMHO if the C's could somehow acquire Simmons at 50-75% the cost of Beal's perceived value, I would prefer Simmons.
 

JM3

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IMHO if the C's could somehow acquire Simmons at 50-75% the cost of Beal's perceived value, I would prefer Simmons.
Simmons would be a pretty good fit with the Jays. Idk if there's a world where the acquisition cost would be half of what it costs for Beal, though.
 

Tony C

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While I was going down some rabbit holes I came across a Nick Wright suggestion of Simmons for Kyrie, which he says is super unlikely/impossible in the real world, but would make a lot of sense for both teams, & I kind of agree in terms of pure basketball.
Boy, that is the first suggestion I have seen that really makes sense for both teams.
 

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Simmons is a very good player, but I'm not interested in a guy with no soul. He'll help us get the 2 seed and then melt in the playoffs. Fuck that.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Simmons would be a pretty good fit with the Jays. Idk if there's a world where the acquisition cost would be half of what it costs for Beal, though.
I really think at the end of the day we are going to move Jaylen as part of a shake up deal to add a star who fits better with Tatum and Beal. Maybe it’s right now for Simmons or maybe it’s next year for KAT. I have no basis for feeling this way other than “gut”……but I can see Jaylen being this generations shake up version of Employee #8.
 

Jimbodandy

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I really think at the end of the day we are going to move Jaylen as part of a shake up deal to add a star who fits better with Tatum and Beal. Maybe it’s right now for Simmons or maybe it’s next year for KAT. I have no basis for feeling this way other than “gut”……but I can see Jaylen being this generations shake up version of Employee #8.
A Jaylen for Simmons trade would kill this team for me, completely being honest here. Trading my favorite player for a guy with no heart would be the end.

For context, I haven't watched five minutes of Bruins hockey since Sinden traded Ray to Colorado.
 

ManicCompression

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I really think at the end of the day we are going to move Jaylen as part of a shake up deal to add a star who fits better with Tatum and Beal. Maybe it’s right now for Simmons or maybe it’s next year for KAT. I have no basis for feeling this way other than “gut”……but I can see Jaylen being this generations shake up version of Employee #8.
Isn't Simmons a downgrade on Jaylen at this point? I feel like a majority of GMS would prefer Jaylen over Simmons and I think he currently has more value around the league because he fits on more teams. If we have Beal in this hypothetical, I'm not sure what from a skills perspective Simmons is adding to the team.

KAT is another story - it's an interesting thought, but I don't think his D is Stevens approved.
 

sezwho

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A Jaylen for Simmons trade would kill this team for me, completely being honest here. Trading my favorite player for a guy with no heart would be the end.

For context, I haven't watched five minutes of Bruins hockey since Sinden traded Ray to Colorado.
Wow, I lack that level of discipline and would find my way back but would be very disappointed.

I think the Js can absolutely complement each other (whatever the max roster number of tremendously talented two way big wings is, it’s bigger than 2) but also because if we want it to matter to be a Celtic, then some amount of loyalty/commitment from the team in return has to be shown. Sure, if a Simmons situation develops do what you need to, but otherwise build around the exceptional young talent you’ve drafted and developed. It’s easier to engender commitment and loyalty when you show it.
 

Swedgin

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Isn't Simmons a downgrade on Jaylen at this point? I feel like a majority of GMS would prefer Jaylen over Simmons and I think he currently has more value around the league because he fits on more teams. If we have Beal in this hypothetical, I'm not sure what from a skills perspective Simmons is adding to the team.

KAT is another story - it's an interesting thought, but I don't think his D is Stevens approved.
The NBA-Draft subreddit recently did a sequential 2016 redraft. Basically a series of polls as to who would you take with each pick. After the poll closed for each pick, a new one opens with prior winner removed and a new guy added. Jaylen was hands down the number one pick. He had something like 3500 votes and the next closest was in the 500 range.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I can certainly see the case for Simmons being a better player today (among other things, RPM lands that way). But it's pretty hard to feel like Simmons has much upside left given his remarkably flat trajectory versus Jaylen's steadily upward one. It's also hard to imagine how you'd prefer Simmons in the NBA playoffs. So given those realities, I really don't think it is a close call---and a year ago I would have (and perhaps did) argue for Simmons.
 
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