2021-22 NBA Off-season Thread

HomeRunBaker

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https://theathletic.com/2775013/2021/08/25/from-pistons-to-rockets-no-10-1-ranking-the-nbas-best-offseason-moves-by-team/

Aldridge has the Clippers and Rockets as his 1 & 2 for their offseason work. I know there are a few Rockets/Clip fans around here so I've posted. Didn't realize Eric Bledsoe had so much value?
I can’t speak for others but I’d have to assume 98% of the “Clippers killed it in the offseason” had to do with them being able to extend Kawhi and then retain Jackson, Batum, and Ibaka.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Getting a 2003-2004 Lakers vibe from the 2021-2022 squad.
Same. Or 2012-13. How can anyone possibly compete with a starting 5 of Nash-Kobe-Artest-Gasol-Howard? Might as well call the season.

45-37, swept away in the first round. Then finished in last place the following three seasons. (Incl. an impressive 56 games back of the Warriors in 2015-16).

Here’s hoping, anyway. :)
 

PedroKsBambino

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I can’t speak for others but I’d have to assume 98% of the “Clippers killed it in the offseason” had to do with them being able to extend Kawhi and then retain Jackson, Batum, and Ibaka.
Yeah, even though we all thought Kawhi was heading back it still is the biggest signing of the offseason impact-wise.

The Houston rating---feels like a massive bet on their picks. I do agree they have pivoted pretty well post-Harden, but I'm not sure this offseason is all that unique.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yeah, even though we all thought Kawhi was heading back it still is the biggest signing of the offseason impact-wise.

The Houston rating---feels like a massive bet on their picks. I do agree they have pivoted pretty well post-Harden, but I'm not sure this offseason is all that unique.
Nobody in the media is saying this and you know I’ve never been one to blindly wear the green colored glasses but I feel that from moving on from a stale GM and a stale Head Coach to start, then to add quality veteran rotation players who both improved roster balance while replacing the youngs minutes…….that we had as good of an offseason as any team in the league!
 

benhogan

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I can’t speak for others but I’d have to assume 98% of the “Clippers killed it in the offseason” had to do with them being able to extend Kawhi and then retain Jackson, Batum, and Ibaka.
Yea that's a fair point. That crew makes the Clips a top 5 contender for the next 3-4 seasons.

Yea I'm still annoyed Aldridge had the Celtics at 27, which is completely a head-scratcher. He's basically saying they will be worse next season. Dennis Schroder at $5.8MM, for a position of need, is one of the best value pick-ups of the off-season. That signing is not getting nearly enough love from the mainstream NBA media. DS will have an immediate positive impact during bench minutes, which was a huge Celtic weakness last season. Begarin in the mid 2nd round as a stash candidate is also very good work. Plus a half a dozen other small but nimble/positive moves to free up space + add contract flexibility.
 

lovegtm

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Nobody in the media is saying this and you know I’ve never been one to blindly wear the green colored glasses but I feel that from moving on from a stale GM and a stale Head Coach to start, then to add quality veteran rotation players who both improved roster balance while replacing the youngs minutes…….that we had as good of an offseason as any team in the league!
I feel similarly. Evaluation of the Celtics offseason probably comes down to how one feels about "Jayson Tatum, superstar" and "Jaylen Brown, awesome sidekick." If you're bullish on those two, this was a really, really good off-season, because the team will win a lot of games and be set up for an "All the Picks" deal to gfin.

If you're not bullish on the Jays, then I can see how this offseason would feel very underwhelming.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I feel similarly. Evaluation of the Celtics offseason probably comes down to how one feels about "Jayson Tatum, superstar" and "Jaylen Brown, awesome sidekick."
It also depends on how you feel about Kemba and his knee. I think many of us think that getting rid of Kemba for more complimentary players is a net positive. We'll see if that is true.
 

lovegtm

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It also depends on how you feel about Kemba and his knee. I think many of us think that getting rid of Kemba for more complimentary players is a net positive. We'll see if that is true.
Ah, I was just assuming that tbh. It's hard for me to see how that won't be the case unless the complimentary players completely shit the bed.
 

pjheff

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Ah, I was just assuming that tbh. It's hard for me to see how that won't be the case unless the complimentary players completely shit the bed.
Does anyone consider Schroder to be an all-round downgrade -- factoring in offense, defense, and availability -- from Kemba in 2021-2022?
 

JM3

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Curious about the Grizzlies now that the dust has settled...

Started with:
#17, #51, Valanciunas, Grayson Allen, '22 2nd

Ended up with:
Ziaire (#10 pick), Santi Aldama (#30 pick), SAdams, Sam Merrill, '24 2nd, Oturu, Juancho, Culver

Meh. It's not as exciting as I had hoped, but seems ~fine.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Curious about the Grizzlies now that the dust has settled...

Started with:
#17, #51, Valanciunas, Grayson Allen, '22 2nd

Ended up with:
Ziaire (#10 pick), Santi Aldama (#30 pick), SAdams, Sam Merrill, '24 2nd, Oturu, Juancho, Culver

Meh. It's not as exciting as I had hoped, but seems ~fine.
It's curious. I wonder if Jonas will shoot the 3 more in NO. He's a decent FT shooter (.780 career) and is a career .358 3 point shooter (98/274). For his career from 10-16, he's at .423 and from 16-3 he's at .420.
He added the 3 4 years ago and in his last 258 games, he has taken 270 3s.
 

JM3

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Lance being 30 seems crazier to me. Nothing like working out with 1 guy who hasn't played in the NBA since 2018 & another who hasn't since 2016 to make someone appear to be in shape.
 

JM3

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This seems like a terrible trade for everyone but the Kings (from Hardwood Houdini).Screenshot_20210902-222312_Facebook.jpg
 

JM3

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Curious about the Grizzlies now that the dust has settled...

Started with:
#17, #51, Valanciunas, Grayson Allen, '22 2nd

Ended up with:
Ziaire (#10 pick), Santi Aldama (#30 pick), SAdams, Sam Merrill, '24 2nd, Oturu, Juancho, Culver, Dunn, Edwards

Meh. It's not as exciting as I had hoped, but seems ~fine.
I apologize for thinking your dust had settled Grizzlies...
 

JM3

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I think a team would be kinda crazy to give up any asset for the right to pay Bagley $11.3m for 1 year followed by... having his RFA rights?

I mean maybe a team like the Grizzlies who are in the asset churning business could give a 2nd or something, but that's an underwater contract with no upside.
 

BigSoxFan

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I think a team would be kinda crazy to give up any asset for the right to pay Bagley $11.3m for 1 year followed by... having his RFA rights?

I mean maybe a team like the Grizzlies who are in the asset churning business could give a 2nd or something, but that's an underwater contract with no upside.
What about OKC and one of their lesser future 1st’s?
 

JM3

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What about OKC and one of their lesser future 1st’s?
OKC has to miss the playoffs for 1 more year so they don't give their 1st to the Hawks, so I guess Bagley could be helpful for that, but he doesn't really do anything to promote winning, & there's no reason to think he will in the future, so I'm not sure why they'd want to give up any of their admittedly excessive assets for the privilege.

Especially if there's no one they would be bidding against. They could certainly send a 2nd or 2 & hope he puts up enough #s that they could s&t him & get their capital spent back, though.
 

JM3

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I almost decided I was being too hard on Bagley, butnahhhhh let's go HARDER:

Bagley is 6'11 & athletic but...

1) He has 92 blocks in 3 NBA seasons comprising of 3013 minutes (1 more than Timelord had last season in 985 minutes).

2) His block % last season was 1.6...lower than James Harden, Kyrie Irving, etc.

He's supposed to have a decent touch buuuuut...

1) Hit 57.5% of his free throws last year (77 of 134), which is worse than Ben Simmons, Andre Drummond, Dwight Howard, etc.

2) Last year he was 129th among 189 qualifying players in TS% ahead of mostly only inefficient little people.

He's lazy.

1) Of the 179 players who qualified in steal % (Bagley wasn't one of them), only 5 posted a steal % worse than Bagley's 0.8% (Zubac/Porzingis/McDermott/Biyombo/RoLo).

2) His stats are almost identical, but worse, in almost every way from his 1st season compared to his 3rd season.
 

cheech13

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No way Bagley fetches a first rounder even with protections. High picks that flame out on their first contract usually fetch a 2nd at best.
 

benhogan

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What about OKC and one of their lesser future 1st’s?
yep, pretty much what OKC and their dozen 1sts are built for

clearly, Bagley has been atrocious for the 2nd pick but 14.5pts/7.5 rebs from a 21yr old is probably worth rolling the dice on if your OKC. What do they have to lose besides minutes going to Muscala/Favors
 

JM3

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yep, pretty much what OKC and their dozen 1sts are built for

clearly, Bagley has been atrocious for the 2nd pick but 14.5pts/7.5 rebs from a 21yr old is probably worth rolling the dice on if your OKC. What do they have to lose besides minutes going to Muscala/Favors
That's like the opposite of what OKC is building for & why they're collecting 1st round picks.

Empty points & rebounds is why MBIII got overdrafted to begin with.
 

benhogan

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That's like the opposite of what OKC is building for & why they're collecting 1st round picks.

Empty points & rebounds is why MBIII got overdrafted to begin with.
I guess it comes down to how you felt about Orlando gambling on Markelle, who was much more broken. He fetched a 2nd and protected 1st.

Not sure what you thought about TL last summer, but the same folks that wrote TL's OBIT seem to be at it again.
 
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JM3

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I guess it comes down to how you felt about Orlando gambling on Markelle, who was much more broken. He fetched a 2nd and protected 1st.

Not sure what you thought about TL last summer, but the same folks that wrote TL's OBIT seem to be at it again.
Gambling on Fultz was ~ok because he had outs to becoming a good NBA player if he got over his mental stuff & fixed his mechanics so there was an upside play.

Of course the 76ers got the better player on the much cheaper contract as a result (Maxey), but I can understand shooting your shot on that upside. Fultz was the consensus #1 pick for a reason. Also, the Magic acquired 2 seasons, not 1.

Bagley is what he is at this point. He was a bad 2nd pick & he's exactly the player he was in college 3 years later. There's no magical upside. He's just an obsolete player type who doesn't really understand basketball or have any discernible work ethic.

Like his best case scenario is playing enough to be a 20/9 guy who becomes a non-disastrous shooter but still doesn't pass, defend, or think the game well, & still will be antithetical to winning basketball.
 

JM3

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I've always been an irrational TL stan.

To the extent that anyone wrote off TL it should be for health reasons, not play reasons, though. He's the complete opposite type of player as Bagley. Blocks shot, passes, shoots at a very high %, actually cares, improves, etc.
 

benhogan

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Gambling on Fultz was ~ok because he had outs to becoming a good NBA player if he got over his mental stuff & fixed his mechanics so there was an upside play.

Of course the 76ers got the better player on the much cheaper contract as a result (Maxey), but I can understand shooting your shot on that upside. Fultz was the consensus #1 pick for a reason. Also, the Magic acquired 2 seasons, not 1.

Bagley is what he is at this point. He was a bad 2nd pick & he's exactly the player he was in college 3 years later. There's no magical upside. He's just an obsolete player type who doesn't really understand basketball or have any discernible work ethic.

Like his best case scenario is playing enough to be a 20/9 guy who becomes a non-disastrous shooter but still doesn't pass, defend, or think the game well, & still will be antithetical to winning basketball.
Unless Sac adds Simmons, it's all for naught anyway. The Kings view him as a starter and probably have a higher opinion than us. Like I said before I think he's been atrocious so far, but writing off a 21yr old this early seems premature. Giving away fat tails is never a good strategy, especially for teams that live in purgatory or are in full rebuild.
 

JM3

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Unless Sac adds Simmons, it's all for naught anyway. The Kings view him as a starter and probably have a higher opinion than us. Like I said before I think he's been atrocious so far, but writing off a 21yr old this early seems premature. Giving away fat tails is never a good strategy, especially for teams that live in purgatory or are in full rebuild.
Do they? They play him like 26 minutes a game. & it's not like they have a surfeit of frontcourt talent.

What's his path to becoming a good basketball player? Are there any comparable current basketball players to Bagley with a similar set of skills that he could aspire to be like?

What about his 1st 3 seasons makes you think he has an upside? Who is his upside comp & how is he going to hit that level?
 

scottyno

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The Lakers are going to have 8 former All-NBA guys, is that a record? I feel like it has to be.
 

scottyno

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The closest I can think of was the ‘86 Celtics with 7 All-Stars (not All-NBA).
Looks like some of the 60s Celtics teams had at least 5 all nba guys at once. I'm not sure if it's easier now because old guys that used to be good join teams as ring chasers or back then because there were fewer teams so you'd naturally have more per team and the winning teams racked up a ton from guys just for being winning teams.
 

Kliq

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I was talking to someone yesterday about how the Nets/Lakers are filling out their rosters, and basically the big difference I've noticed is that NBA teams are much savvier about valuing good role players. It is a different time than even in the Heat Big 3 era. In a league where Duncan Robinson is a $90 million player, there isn't going to be a lot of Mike Millers and Shane Battiers available for cheap money. There isn't a ton of talent available off the scrap heap for teams that are in win-now mode. The play now is to sign a lot of veteran ex-stars for cheap money (mainly because the existing stars on the team are friendly with them and will trust them more than unproven rookies or career JAGs) and hope that a couple of them still have something left come play-off time.