2021-22 NBA Off-season Thread

Euclis20

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I don’t know of many ball hogs who have led the league in Assists during the last 3 full NBA seasons.
I don't know if ball hog is the right word, but he certainly dominates the ball. Westbrook is 2nd all-time in career usage %, only behind Jordan (Lebron is 5th). Interestingly enough Wade was also 2nd all-time (I think) before Lebron got to Miami.
 

JM3

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I don't know if ball hog is the right word, but he certainly dominates the ball. Westbrook is 2nd all-time in career usage %, only behind Jordan (Lebron is 5th). Interestingly enough Wade was also 2nd all-time (I think) before Lebron got to Miami.
I was curious how far back usage rates went because it seems like an awfully modern list. Was mildly surprised to see Boogie 6th.

My biggest surprise was seeing, tied with George Gervin & right ahead of...

Harden
Nique
Durant
Melo
DBooker
Kyrie
Mailman
Shaq
TMac

...

John Drew, who I'm not 100% sure I've ever heard of.

He was a 2nd round pick in 1974 & played for the Hawks for 8 years before being traded by Atlanta to Utah for Dominique Wilkins.

He is tied for the single game turnover record with Jason Kidd (14), & his career was curtailed somewhat by cocaine addiction.

Drew also has the distinction of being the 1st player in the NBA to be banned for violating the new substance abuse policy after being arrested 4 times (mostly for selling & buying cocsine, plus passing a bad check), despite not being on an NBA roster at the time.

Drew played 739 games over the course of 11 NBA seasons, averaging 20.7/6.9/1.7 on 47% shooting.

The list only lists him as having 510 games played, so it looks like ot cut off his 1st 3 seasons, meaning they track the stat back to '77-'78.

Drew was 6'6 & is 1 of 3 NBA players to go to Gardner-Webb, along with Artis Gilmore & Eddie Lee Wilkins.

& a more in depth story...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.peachtreehoops.com/platform/amp/2020/5/7/21250412/atlanta-hawks-lookback-john-drew-all-star-public-addiction-trade-dominique-wilkins
 

HomeRunBaker

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I was John Drew many times in my driveway as a young kid. Guy could get buckets like nobody’s business. When I felt quick I’d shift over into Randy Smith mode. Ah the innocence of being 8!

Utah trades Favors and a future 1st to OKC for a future 2nd in a salary dump. Of course OKC gained another 1st.



DFFEEE3A-DF12-4A1E-B933-422B82351E45.jpeg
 

snowmanny

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John Drew, who I'm not 100% sure I've ever heard of.

He was a 2nd round pick in 1974 & played for the Hawks for 8 years before being traded by Atlanta to Utah for Dominique Wilkins.
All I remember about that trade was that Red was pissed and insisted he had made a much better offer.
 

benhogan

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I was John Drew many times in my driveway as a young kid. Guy could get buckets like nobody’s business. When I felt quick I’d shift over into Randy Smith mode. Ah the innocence of being 8!

Utah trades Favors and a future 1st to OKC for a future 2nd in a salary dump. Of course OKC gained another 1st.



View attachment 43052
yep.

I'm a hair queasy about PBS trying to move Tristan Thompson (without assets) and his $9.7MM

BUT I guess the Favors cost wasn't that great, the delta between an OKC 2nd and Utah 1st isn't huge.

When do we decide that Beal isn't forcing his way out?
 
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Devizier

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Favors has two years remaining on his contract (player option). He's a better player but the situations aren't really comparable.
 

benhogan

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Favors has two years remaining on his contract (player option). He's a better player but the situations aren't really comparable.
yea. on 2nd thought the cost, for Utah, isn't even that great

TT + a protected 1st for Nance + Cleve 2nd or

TT + 2nd for Delon Wright

would be attractive options, not sure Cavs/Kings would go for it
 

HomeRunBaker

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yep.

I'm a hair queasy about PBS trying to move Tristan Thompson (without assets) and his $9.7MM

BUT I guess the Favors cost wasn't that great, the delta between an OKC 2nd and Utah 1st isn't huge.

When do we decide that Beal isn't forcing his way out?
TT isn’t the same as Favors though as the latter is due an additional $10m following this season. Also, for Utah this was a pure salary dump without receiving a player (and a contract) in return so there was only a couple options available who would want to absorb $10m in 2022-23.

Edit: What Dev said.
 

cheech13

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Favors has two years remaining on his contract (player option). He's a better player but the situations aren't really comparable.
Utah also has to dump salary before free agency to resign Mike Conley, so that can’t wait for the market to develop. They were working from a position of weakness.
 

benhogan

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TT isn’t the same as Favors though as the latter is due an additional $10m following this season. Also, for Utah this was a pure salary dump without receiving a player (and a contract) in return so there was only a couple options available who would want to absorb $10m in 2022-23.

Edit: What Dev said.
Favors is a better player than TT, but not by much. yea Dev is correct

Need to figure out who needs a backup 5.
I keep thinking (hoping) the Spurs and Kings could appreciate what TT has to offer
 

Fishy1

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Help me out: the read on Favors v TT is the former is a better weakside defender, better rum-runner, but less switchable and worse rebounder, right?
 

JM3

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Help me out: the read on Favors v TT is the former is a better weakside defender, better rum-runner, but less switchable and worse rebounder, right?
Seems fair-ish. I think Favors can play a more useful role in winning basketball. His 7'4 wingspan (TT = 7'1) allows him to be a better rim protector & he's a more efficient offensive player. He's also a better free throw shooter & less Kardashiany.

Only real downside is the '23 $10.2m player option which is problematic if trying to free up cap space next year, but I don't think that's the path they'll take anyway.
 

Cellar-Door

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I wouldn't want Favors. His on/offs last year were bad, and he was borderline unplayable in the playoffs (admittedly so was TT), neither should have much of a role with Al and TL on the roster and options for small 5s, given both have little left in the way of lateral movement. I'd rather eat TTs 1 year than take the chance of paying 10M+ two straight years for a deep bench C.

I think other teams probably see it the same way. If you're getting a veteran backup C who may be losing it you'd like to go year to year with him, and you'd rather the younger guy when given the chance.
 

Fishy1

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Bootlegging and privateer skills are pretty passe on 2021.
My best typo yet.

Seems fair-ish. I think Favors can play a more useful role in winning basketball. His 7'4 wingspan (TT = 7'1) allows him to be a better rim protector & he's a more efficient offensive player. He's also a better free throw shooter & less Kardashiany.

Only real downside is the '23 $10.2m player option which is problematic if trying to free up cap space next year, but I don't think that's the path they'll take anyway.
Seems like he'd be some very expensive TL insurance and therefore, as you said, an unlikely move.

Think TT is more likely to be moved for a reliable PG type to play next to Marcus - I know someone was floating a Tyus Jones type. Someone who doesn't need the ball a whole lot but can pass and shoot a little. But my understanding is that so much will depend on whether the C's can sign-and-trade Fournier for anything or if he just walks.
 

Fishy1

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I wouldn't want Favors. His on/offs last year were bad, and he was borderline unplayable in the playoffs (admittedly so was TT), neither should have much of a role with Al and TL on the roster and options for small 5s, given both have little left in the way of lateral movement. I'd rather eat TTs 1 year than take the chance of paying 10M+ two straight years for a deep bench C.

I think other teams probably see it the same way. If you're getting a veteran backup C who may be losing it you'd like to go year to year with him, and you'd rather the younger guy when given the chance.
Right. If we're concerned about depth, might be better to just keep Kornet around and hope he can improve his shooting percentages and strength.
 

JM3

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I wouldn't want Favors. His on/offs last year were bad, and he was borderline unplayable in the playoffs (admittedly so was TT), neither should have much of a role with Al and TL on the roster and options for small 5s, given both have little left in the way of lateral movement. I'd rather eat TTs 1 year than take the chance of paying 10M+ two straight years for a deep bench C.

I think other teams probably see it the same way. If you're getting a veteran backup C who may be losing it you'd like to go year to year with him, and you'd rather the younger guy when given the chance.
Favors is 4 months younger than TT.

The on-off was awful last year (-11.7), but it was great the year before (+9.0) & all his 36 minute #s were right in line or better. His minutes were reduced, though (24 to 15) so yeah, not sure.

Stuff like 138/103 ortg/drtg (TT 116/112) is kinda crazy & he had a 5.1 WS season (TT 2.9)19.7 PER (TT 14.2), 66.3% TS (TT 54.0%)... basically he became an Ed Davis All Star, which obviously isn't a great thing if that's his new cap & it can't translate to more & more positive minutes.

My best typo yet.



Seems like he'd be some very expensive TL insurance and therefore, as you said, an unlikely move.

Think TT is more likely to be moved for a reliable PG type to play next to Marcus - I know someone was floating a Tyus Jones type. Someone who doesn't need the ball a whole lot but can pass and shoot a little. But my understanding is that so much will depend on whether the C's can sign-and-trade Fournier for anything or if he just walks.
Yeah, I would much rather just flip him for something else. That was more of just a "if these were my only 2 options" thing.

I guess it depends on how cooked
 

Cellar-Door

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Favors is 4 months younger than TT.

The on-off was awful last year (-11.7), but it was great the year before (+9.0) & all his 36 minute #s were right in line or better. His minutes were reduced, though (24 to 15) so yeah, not sure.

Stuff like 138/103 ortg/drtg (TT 116/112) is kinda crazy & he had a 5.1 WS season (TT 2.9)19.7 PER (TT 14.2), 66.3% TS (TT 54.0%)... basically he became an Ed Davis All Star, which obviously isn't a great thing if that's his new cap & it can't translate to more & more positive minutes.
Wow, I didn't even look it up because I just assumed Favors was like 33 minimum.

Playoffs were interesting for the stuff you looked at:

43066

I think Favors is a guy who can still feast on some bad bench matchups, but gets run off the floor by playoff caliber teams. His team was a significant Rd 1 favorite and the higher seed in round 2, he basically fell out of the rotation late against the Clips (6MPG) because he couldn't play unless Zubac was on the floor. I think Thompson has a lower ceiling, but he's more matchup proof in that he can play below average against bad matchups instead of just falling off a cliff, where he doesn't have the flip side of Favors having the offensive game to feast on bad bench regular season matchups.

Honestly neither is of much use to this particular roster, so you want to move on from TT this year if possible, but next year for sure, Favors might be slightly better this year but the extra year is a huge negative.
 

JM3

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Wow, I didn't even look it up because I just assumed Favors was like 33 minimum.

Playoffs were interesting for the stuff you looked at:

View attachment 43066

I think Favors is a guy who can still feast on some bad bench matchups, but gets run off the floor by playoff caliber teams. His team was a significant Rd 1 favorite and the higher seed in round 2, he basically fell out of the rotation late against the Clips (6MPG) because he couldn't play unless Zubac was on the floor. I think Thompson has a lower ceiling, but he's more matchup proof in that he can play below average against bad matchups instead of just falling off a cliff, where he doesn't have the flip side of Favors having the offensive game to feast on bad bench regular season matchups.

Honestly neither is of much use to this particular roster, so you want to move on from TT this year if possible, but next year for sure, Favors might be slightly better this year but the extra year is a huge negative.
Yeah, Favors was 3rd pick in 2010, TT 4th in 2011, but Favors came into the league younger.

The playoffs this year is a tiny sample size & TT likely boosted by Nets not really having to GAF, but you're right that the extra year is more problematic than I gave it credit for.

I'm not concerned about TT being able to suck less against certain matchups when they're deep enough to mix & match more optimally, so I stand by Favors being better for this upcoming year, but yup. I think it would still be close if it was just an extra year on Favors' contract, but the player option aspect takes away any upside of Favors actually being a great fit & outperforming the contract.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah, Favors was 3rd pick in 2010, TT 4th in 2011, but Favors came into the league younger.

The playoffs this year is a tiny sample size & TT likely boosted by Nets not really having to GAF, but you're right that the extra year is more problematic than I gave it credit for.

I'm not concerned about TT being able to suck less against certain matchups when they're deep enough to mix & match more optimally, so I stand by Favors being better for this upcoming year, but yup. I think it would still be close if it was just an extra year on Favors' contract, but the player option aspect takes away any upside of Favors actually being a great fit & outperforming the contract.
My feeling is Favors would be better in the regular season this year, but TT might be better in the playoffs because if you need to play your 3rd big in the playoffs it's likely not because it's a good matchup, so TT can give you better bad matchup minutes (against and Embiid or something). Either way I think neither has much value to this particular team.
 

the moops

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WAS front office deserves some major props, IMO.

They turned the worst contract in the NBA, in John Wall, into two first round picks, Kuzma, Caldwell Pope, and Harrell

Thats impressive
 

JM3

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WAS front office deserves some major props, IMO.

They turned the worst contract in the NBA, in John Wall, into two first round picks, Kuzma, Caldwell Pope, and Harrell

Thats impressive
I made that mistake the other day. They gave up a 1st in the Westbrook trade. They still did good work, though.
 

Jimbodandy

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I made that mistake the other day. They gave up a 1st in the Westbrook trade. They still did good work, though.
Still moops is right about great work. They grabbed Westbrook at the right time and then jumped on the Lakers deal at the right time. Simply NOT having to end up with their own albatross contract is miraculous shit right there.
 

moondog80

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Am I the only one who would rather have Dragic for one year at 19 mil than Lowry for four years, especially if it's max money or something close?
 

the moops

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I don't think that Lowry gets anywhere close to a 4 year max deal. If he does, then yes, I would absolutely prefer Dragic on his one year deal.
 

Cellar-Door

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View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1421932608565436417


Not a surprise given his health, but if he has little market the Celtics might be a good fit for him on the cheap, he has a lot of upside left and BOS is a contender where he might play (probably better than going to a bad team and trying to put up numbers because a good team will let him show without the pressure to put up big minutes)
 

the moops

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Would love the Celts to take a flyer on Collins. I can't imagine he is going to get much more than a mini MLE deal for 1 or 2 years
 
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JakeRae

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Would love the Celts to take a flyer on Collins. I can't imagine he is going to get much more than a mini MLE deal for 1 or 2 years
Collins is recovering from another foot fracture/surgery. He has a lot of talent, but he’s a min contract guy at most given his injury issues. The track record of 7 footers with chronic foot fracture issues is really bad.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I like Monk, I wonder what the market is for him.
His market is hard to assess—-someone could certainly fall in love.

Hollinger created a valuation metric for the Athletic; he pegged Monk’s value just under $5 mil. Certainly not the be all source of data, though consistent with Hornet’s decision
 

Cesar Crespo

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His market is hard to assess—-someone could certainly fall in love.

Hollinger created a valuation metric for the Athletic; he pegged Monk’s value just under $5 mil. Certainly not the be all source of data, though consistent with Hornet’s decision
That seems like way too little. I'd guess he gets anywhere from 10-15 ml a year.
 

Euclis20

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I want Jeff Green just to keep him away from anyone else so I don’t have to deal with any more of those BS performances.
It's funny because I feel the exact same way, but look at his career splits and he's averaging just 9.5 ppg against Boston with a TS% of .454. He does better (in both stats) against all 29 other teams. One of the most shocking stats I've seen in months.

Regular season only, but still.
 

BigSoxFan

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It's funny because I feel the exact same way, but look at his career splits and he's averaging just 9.5 ppg against Boston with a TS% of .454. He does better (in both stats) against all 29 other teams. One of the most shocking stats I've seen in months.

Regular season only, but still.
That Game 7 performance will haunt my dreams for the rest of my life. I can’t discuss Jeff Green rationally because of it.