2021-22 NBA In-Season News/Transactions

JM3

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
1,205
I think that's the deal (Bill) Simmons was talking about the other day except with Haliburton instead of Fox...

Kings get:
Simmons ($33m)
Harris ($36m)

76ers get:
Haliburton ($4m)
Hield ($22.8m)
Barnes ($20.3m)
Bagley ($11.3m)
TT ($9.7m)
1st round pick
But Fox instead of Hield/Haliburton also works.

Or also Fox/Hield/Barnes.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
22,965
Offering more than Fox seems like competing amongst yourself but I guess there are the John Collins rumors. Those had Cam in them but I doubt he'd be the hang up.
You’re not really competing with yourself if Morey won’t do the deal that you’re offering.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
22,965
View: https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/1482070988493930496


Here are the re-worked testing protocols for the next month:

Fully vaxxed and boosted... no daily testing unless symptoms.
Vaxxed and ineligible for booster...no daily testing, usually no gameday
Vaxxed, eligible for but not boosted...daily testing and gameday
Un vaxxed- subject to original protocols
By the end of the season what would you project to be the percentage of NBA players who have NOT tested positive at all this year?
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
6,483
around the way
Sacramento is playing this right by talking up all of the interest in Fox. But good luck getting real value for an inefficient player who can't shoot 3s, doesn't play defense, and has an AAV of 33M through 2026.

edit: 48330
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
24,448
Ready for a hot take.....

Marcus Smart is better than DeAron Fox, and while Fox is younger, I doubt that changes in the next 3 years. If PHI is really considering a deal with Fox as the centerpiece, they should consider one with Smart. I don't think they should do either, but if they are....
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
5,687
Here's a thought experiment, if Simmons took as many threes as Smart, but shot them at 30%, would people think he's better or worse player than they do now?
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
13,379
Santa Monica
Here's a thought experiment, if Simmons took as many threes as Smart, but shot them at 30%, would people think he's better or worse player than they do now?
depends on what team he is on and the situation:

1. On a contender/win now. Since his 2pt% is 56.5%, I'd rather have him stay with his shot selection. Surround him with 3pt shooters and let him distribute.

2. On Sacramento/lottery team. Have him launch at will with the hope that he can improve from the 30% over the next 4yrs of his contract
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
24,448
I still think Fox is better than Ben Simmons.
I think you are crazy... one is 6'10" rebounds great, passes just as well or better, scores more efficiently from the floor and is an outstanding defender. The other is fast and plays terrible D.
Fox's best attribute is he finishes well at the rim, and he can handle a ton of usage, but I can't see that offsetting Simmons' massive advantage in so many other areas.
 

Tony C

Dope
Dope
Apr 13, 2000
13,094
Fox for Simmons has always been the core of a deal that makes the most sense. Fox is a bit overrated, but he is good and a good match with Philly. Simmons is exactly what the Kings need and they'll still have some great guards.

Oops, missed Garland on skim. Y'all are correct he's the 3rd best.

Wouldn't trade Luka for Trae + Garland, though.
I'm not even sure about 3rd best. To me he's right with the other two and maybe better than Trae. Trae is such a defensive burden that, even if a superior offensive player, I might prefer the more well rounded Garland (and I'd definitely do Trae+Garland for Luka, even if Luka should end up being the best of the trio).
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
17,222
I think you are crazy... one is 6'10" rebounds great, passes just as well or better, scores more efficiently from the floor and is an outstanding defender. The other is fast and plays terrible D.
Fox's best attribute is he finishes well at the rim, and he can handle a ton of usage, but I can't see that offsetting Simmons' massive advantage in so many other areas.
Fox isn't afraid to actually play basketball.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
24,448
Fox isn't afraid to actually play basketball.
Sometimes when it comes to shooting I bet the Kings wish he was.

And if Simmons is... well he somehow fights through it to be better than Fox. People have gotten ridiculous with the SImmons stuff. He's a really good player.
 

Ale Xander

killed off Vin Scully
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
44,955

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
24,448
Didn’t look like anything when it happened. I thought he’d come right back in. Hoping it’s just a super mild tweak of some kind.

They should go ahead and give LaVine the MVP after tonight, tho: road-weary Warriors on a B2B without Dray and Klay lead 112-72 through 3.

Basketball is weird.
Yeah he didn't even go down, but also immediately gave the intentional foul and walked straight to the locker-room without even stopping at the bench which is concerning. wonder if it shifted on him and felt loose.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
22,965
People have gotten ridiculous with the SImmons stuff. He's a really good player.
It truly is incredible. He’s being talked about around the internet by the super casual NBA fan as if he’s going through what Fultz was when in Philly.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
6,483
around the way
Sometimes when it comes to shooting I bet the Kings wish he was.

And if Simmons is... well he somehow fights through it to be better than Fox. People have gotten ridiculous with the SImmons stuff. He's a really good player.
To be fair, he was a really good player. Now, he plays as much NBA ball as we do. There's probably some recency bias going on.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
6,483
around the way
Side note--the "it's a player's league, Klutch is God, Morey would never get away with letting Simmons rot on the bench all year" takes haven't held up very well. Simmons hasn't gone anywhere and very well may not.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
22,965
Side note--the "it's a player's league, Klutch is God, Morey would never get away with letting Simmons rot on the bench all year" takes haven't held up very well. Simmons hasn't gone anywhere and very well may not.
So that’s a win for Morey? Simmons will ultimately get what he wants which is out of Philly as Morey wastes a year of Embiid’s prime. Congratulations on a job well done Daryl.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
6,483
around the way
So that’s a win for Morey? Simmons will ultimately get what he wants which is out of Philly as Morey wastes a year of Embiid’s prime. Congratulations on a job well done Daryl.
No, Morey doesn't win either really. I'd have cut my losses as soon as the finals were over.

But there was a lot of talk about how the agents were going to bully him, the pressure would be unbearable. Turns out that Morey gives no fucks and would rather have no deal than give Ben away. And Ben's value simply isn't that high.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
749
Brooklyn by way of Orono
No, Morey doesn't win either really. I'd have cut my losses as soon as the finals were over.

But there was a lot of talk about how the agents were going to bully him, the pressure would be unbearable. Turns out that Morey gives no fucks and would rather have no deal than give Ben away. And Ben's value simply isn't that high.
Klutch for sure didn’t blink and Morey definitely gives zero fucks. Can you give negative fucks?

For the record, I too would have worked to maximize the value of this season. As GM I only stood pat if nothing on the table could have impacted that (without decimating my future).

Unless he pulls a deadline rabbit out of his hat, still on the table of course, everyone but Morey loses to a borderline hilarious degree. The fans, ownership, Embiid, Ben himself, and the rest of the team are in the wind as the season grinds on.

Morey plays the hand with none of his own money on the table, and the chips fall where they may. It’s somehow simultaneously respectable and loathsome.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
18,697
No, Morey doesn't win either really. I'd have cut my losses as soon as the finals were over.

But there was a lot of talk about how the agents were going to bully him, the pressure would be unbearable. Turns out that Morey gives no fucks and would rather have no deal than give Ben away. And Ben's value simply isn't that high.
I don't think we really know how high Ben's value is because the 76ers are in a weird position where they are still a title contender despite a player demanding a trade.

If you look at the Kyrie return though.. maybe it isn't that high. According to rumors, his value is a little more than Collins or Fox. That's ok value.

Like, what is high value? A bunch of young, promising players and a pick swap? He's in the 2nd tier, those players normally don't demand trades.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
6,483
around the way
I don't think we really know how high Ben's value is because the 76ers are in a weird position where they are still a title contender despite a player demanding a trade.

If you look at the Kyrie return though.. maybe it isn't that high. According to rumors, his value is a little more than Collins or Fox. That's ok value.

Like, what is high value? A bunch of young, promising players and a pick swap? He's in the 2nd tier, those players normally don't demand trades.
Yeah we don't know. But it's clearly not "another top-30 player". Morey publicly said that his price is a top-30 player, so he can't exactly backtrack if one is offered. So it's safe to assume that Not-Playing-Anymore/Playoff-Meltdown Ben is worth less than pre-Atlanta-series Ben. What we don't know is how much less.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,955
No, Morey doesn't win either really. I'd have cut my losses as soon as the finals were over.

But there was a lot of talk about how the agents were going to bully him, the pressure would be unbearable. Turns out that Morey gives no fucks and would rather have no deal than give Ben away. And Ben's value simply isn't that high.
He bollixed his situation to the largest degree possible. It will be hilarious when he gets terminated because he took a team with an MVP level player and spent his time fighting for home court advantage in the playoffs.
 

Tony C

Dope
Dope
Apr 13, 2000
13,094
Side note--the "it's a player's league, Klutch is God, Morey would never get away with letting Simmons rot on the bench all year" takes haven't held up very well. Simmons hasn't gone anywhere and very well may not.
To the contrary, I actually think it's held up really well as a take. You really think there are other GMs out there saying, "hey look, next time I have a hold out I'll stick it to Klutch rather than actually help my team win games!"

I don't think so. I'm sure every agent in the business is loving this as it's showing GMs how dumb it is to engage in a macho stare down rather than work to get reasonable value back.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
6,483
around the way
To the contrary, I actually think it's held up really well as a take. You really think there are other GMs out there saying, "hey look, next time I have a hold out I'll stick it to Klutch rather than actually help my team win games!"

I don't think so. I'm sure every agent in the business is loving this as it's showing GMs how dumb it is to engage in a macho stare down rather than work to get reasonable value back.
I'm not being understood here.

I never said that Morey's position was a good idea. He's an egomaniac who is playing this poorly.

What I said was that he was going to do this. And he has done exactly this. Despite the "he would never do this" takes here and elsewhere.

Klutch is just an agency. They don't tell general managers what to do. Especially Morey. He's fucking nuts.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
13,379
Santa Monica
No, Morey doesn't win either really. I'd have cut my losses as soon as the finals were over.

But there was a lot of talk about how the agents were going to bully him, the pressure would be unbearable. Turns out that Morey gives no fucks and would rather have no deal than give Ben away. And Ben's value simply isn't that high.
+1
I was in the "Simmons will be moved at the trade deadline" camp and not a day before Dec15th. You're right Jimbo there were plenty around here that claimed the 76ers would fold up and be forced to move Simmons quickly at pennies on the dollar the first few months of the NBA season.

The 76ers have held up pretty well standings-wise. Maxey has taken over the PG position and Thybulle is flashing Simmons-esque perimeter defense.

BUT I'd be surprised if Morey waited until the summer. He'll make a move by Feb 10. The real NBA season, for contenders, begins in February
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
4,636
Imaginationland
+1
I was in the "Simmons will be moved at the trade deadline" camp and not a day before Dec15th. You're right Jimbo there were plenty around here that claimed the 76ers would fold up and be forced to move Simmons quickly at pennies on the dollar the first few months of the NBA season.

The 76ers have held up pretty well standings-wise. Maxey has taken over the PG position and Thybulle is flashing Simmons-esque perimeter defense.

BUT I'd be surprised if Morey waited until the summer. He'll make a move by Feb 10. The real NBA season, for contenders, begins in February
Yup, I was in the group that said Morey would be pressured to move him sooner rather than later because the Sixers would struggle, but they've more than kept their heads above water. As long as they make a move before the deadline it hasn't been a wasted effort.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
13,379
Santa Monica
Handing the keys to Tyrese Maxey has worked out nicely for Doc and given Morey cover to be patient

DM should be looking for a wing and take a hard pass on the overrated DeAaron Fox. He shouldn't let Tobias Harris's bad contract dictate who they acquire. They are legitimate contenders with a player like John Collins
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
17,222
People have to understand that there is a lot of pressure on the entire Sixers organization to NOT trade Simmons, at least for nothing less than a very strong deal that does return something like a top-30 player.

This is the battleground between the owners and the players and dictating who really controls the league. The owners and the league want to remain firm on the notion that a player who has four years left on a max contract cannot just decide to not play and thus force a team to trade him for .50 cents on the dollar. There is a lot of outside pressure on Morey to remain resolute and show everyone that you can't basically piss on a max deal one year after you signed it because you want to play somewhere else.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
22,965
No, Morey doesn't win either really. I'd have cut my losses as soon as the finals were over.

But there was a lot of talk about how the agents were going to bully him, the pressure would be unbearable. Turns out that Morey gives no fucks and would rather have no deal than give Ben away. And Ben's value simply isn't that high.
I was being facetious. Morey botched this about as bad as one could from day one and it isn’t even over yet.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
749
Brooklyn by way of Orono
Klutch is just an agency. They don't tell general managers what to do. Especially Morey. He's fucking nuts.
Re the bolded , I’m pretty sure they did exactly that though. This year started with Morey sending him home without an FU and no pay. Klutch stepped into advocate for their client and Morey scampered quickly away from his BS position on BS.

This is the battleground between the owners and the players and dictating who really controls the league. The owners and the league want to remain firm on the notion that a player who has four years left on a max contract cannot just decide to not play and thus force a team to trade him for .50 cents on the dollar. There is a lot of outside pressure on Morey to remain resolute and show everyone that you can't basically piss on a max deal one year after you signed it because you want to play somewhere else.
Maybe this explains why ownership is tolerating this crap show, but I still don’t believe Morey gives any fucks about that angle. He’s simply taking an extremely high variance approach because it’ll potentially generate the best outcome and he doesn’t care about the downside.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
14,045
People have to understand that there is a lot of pressure on the entire Sixers organization to NOT trade Simmons, at least for nothing less than a very strong deal that does return something like a top-30 player.

This is the battleground between the owners and the players and dictating who really controls the league. The owners and the league want to remain firm on the notion that a player who has four years left on a max contract cannot just decide to not play and thus force a team to trade him for .50 cents on the dollar. There is a lot of outside pressure on Morey to remain resolute and show everyone that you can't basically piss on a max deal one year after you signed it because you want to play somewhere else.
Bingo. I think people seem to think that Morey has an obligation to put Simmons in a better position, or to kowtow to his agent's demands. He does not. Hell, people were saying that Morey will need to trade Maxey simply because Klutch said so; good thing for Philly that Morey didn't listen.

The Sixers' ownership knows exactly what it is going on. The ownership team could have easily told Morey "Trade Simmons now, or right on December 15th, or you'll need to find employment elsewhere". The ownership does not want to set a precedent, and Morey is the perfect guy to execute that strategy, because he clearly doesn't care what Simmons or Klutch or SoSH posters think.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
13,379
Santa Monica
People have to understand that there is a lot of pressure on the entire Sixers organization to NOT trade Simmons, at least for nothing less than a very strong deal that does return something like a top-30 player.

This is the battleground between the owners and the players and dictating who really controls the league. The owners and the league want to remain firm on the notion that a player who has four years left on a max contract cannot just decide to not play and thus force a team to trade him for .50 cents on the dollar. There is a lot of outside pressure on Morey to remain resolute and show everyone that you can't basically piss on a max deal one year after you signed it because you want to play somewhere else.
John Collins+ isn't .50 cents on the Simmons dollar. Heck JC may be a better fit with Embiid than Simmons so it may be a rotation upgrade for the Sixers. JC also has a much more team-friendly contract than Simmons, saving the 76ers $10MM/yr. Morey is just waiting as long as possible (Feb.10) to get the best player(s) possible

This Agent vs Owner posturing is great for a media narrative, but it's a blanket statement. Every MAX deal/situation is on a case-by-case basis. If Simmons gets dealt it's not going to set a lightbulb off in Agent's heads. They've been trying to dictate superstar terms to the owners since David Falk was running the league in the 80s. Sometimes the stars have hand and sometimes the owners have hand (see Pippen, Scottie).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbSZMhGFsCU
 
Last edited:

Sam Ray Not

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
8,041
NYC
With Anfernee Simons blowing up in PDX, why don’t both teams just bite the bullet on a straight Lillard-Simmons swap? Dame’s only 31, and his surgery should hopefully cure what has ailed him over the last year or so; and Simmons-Simons seems like a great young tandem going forward.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
22,965
With Anfernee Simons blowing up in PDX, why don’t both teams just bite the bullet on a straight Lillard-Simmons swap? Dame’s only 31, and his surgery should hopefully cure what has ailed him over the last year or so; and Simmons-Simons seems like a great young tandem going forward.
As much as I mock Morey I can’t imagine he holds out all season to trade a young All-Star player for a small guard about to turn 32 coming off an injury and down year. This would be funny though.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
17,222
The Nets have built up enough of a cushion that they should be able to survive the time without Durant without slipping too far in the playoffs; but man the lower-body injuries are really piling up on Durant.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
24,448
The Nets have built up enough of a cushion that they should be able to survive the time without Durant without slipping too far in the playoffs; but man the lower-body injuries are really piling up on Durant.
Also getting a bit of home/road split luck in the upcoming schedule meaning they'll have Kyrie for a lot of the non-Durant games
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
6,483
around the way
The Nets have built up enough of a cushion that they should be able to survive the time without Durant without slipping too far in the playoffs; but man the lower-body injuries are really piling up on Durant.
MCL is a bad luck injury and not really related to anything else. Probably good for a guy his age to get some rest.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
24,908
People have to understand that there is a lot of pressure on the entire Sixers organization to NOT trade Simmons, at least for nothing less than a very strong deal that does return something like a top-30 player.

This is the battleground between the owners and the players and dictating who really controls the league. The owners and the league want to remain firm on the notion that a player who has four years left on a max contract cannot just decide to not play and thus force a team to trade him for .50 cents on the dollar. There is a lot of outside pressure on Morey to remain resolute and show everyone that you can't basically piss on a max deal one year after you signed it because you want to play somewhere else.
I'm sure the teams in the Eastern Conference are putting as much pressure as possible on Morey not to do anything. At all. For the entire length of Simmons' contract. :)

I mean the fact of the matter is that Embiid is almost 28, is oft-injured (hasn't played more than 64 games in a season), and weighs 280 pounds minimum. I don't know how many healthy years Embiid has left in his body but as a Cs fan, I'm happy that Morey has apparently chose one of them not to pair Embiid with a true second star.