2021-22 76ers thread: One Flew Out of the Cuckoo’s nest

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
The 76ers have always been a little cuckoo, dating back to Wilt forcing his way to the Lakers in the late 1960s, one year removed from a rare NBA team championship for Philadelphia.
This has nothing to do with Ben Simmons, who is just emotionally exhausted and might sit out the first week or three. It’s more about the movie. Basketball was a big part of the movie. Chief stuffed someone in the hoop but I forget who. The movie was a bit sad and depressing, sort of like the 76ers franchise. The movie had talent, just like the 76ers. And nobody knows the ending. That’s the great thing about sports. Conflicts take time to dissolve. Ben could be traded, or perhaps he takes a few weeks off and returns to his teammates.

We are not sure how 76ers can survive without Simmons but they won their opener Wednesday night by 20 points over the Zion-less Pelicans, who are awful. Still recovering from foot surgery, Zion is out indefinitely.
The 76ers look a lot different without Ben. Not as fast, not pushing the pace like when Ben was around. But the second unit rose up in the fourth quarter. Philly led by six when Furkie Korkmaz hit three treys inside a minute. He finished with 22 points in 20 minutes. Tyrese Maxey had 20 points and 5 assists as the starting PG. Played a team-high 34 minutes. Embiid had 22 points in 26 minutes.
Brooklyn will be in Philly tonight for the home opener. Embiid is listed as questionable with a sore right knee but he will play because the fans need him, and Joel needs the fans. He loves the big stage. National TV. The Brooklyn Nets.
The focus should be on the game, not the soap opera.
 
Last edited:

Ale Xander

killed off Vin Scully
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
43,714
It's tougher on the defense when you have to defend 5 shooters instead of 4
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
22,531
It's tougher on the defense when you have to defend 5 shooters instead of 4
Ben used this to his advantage so often. Teams would back off and give him a penetrating lane which he often took advantage of and unlike many non-shooters he is an excellent finisher in the lane.
 
Last edited:

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
76ers are not as physically intimidating without Ben. They used to be long and tall. Now they start Maxey at the point. He’s about 8 inches shorter than Ben. But as Ale pointed out, now you have four shooters on the floor in most rotations, and Embiid will take more 3s this year. He hit two of three in the first half. Philly shot 13-for-25 from beyond. Furkie went 4-for-4. So the offensive flow is smoother.
 
Last edited:

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
Simmons averages 16 points a game for his career on 56% shooting. The trash Simmons thing is really becoming irrational.
Not on this thread. We know what Ben gave Philly over the past few years. You don’t replace a guy with his all-around game. But you hope you can find two or three players who can step up their games. I doubt it will be enough. Philly will be just another team this season. Still, as a hoop fan, it will be interesting to see how Doc works his roster.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,632
I would guess you can't tell much about the post-Simmons 76ers in a game against an inferior opponent where they shot 52% from 3 and got more than twice as many FTs. The 76ers are good, the Pels are bad, add in an unsustainable shooting night, it's a blowout quick.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
I would guess you can't tell much about the post-Simmons 76ers in a game against an inferior opponent where they shot 52% from 3 and got more than twice as many FTs. The 76ers are good, the Pels are bad, add in an unsustainable shooting night, it's a blowout quick.
Actually, it was a five-point game early in fourth quarter before Korkmaz went off. That was worrisome.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,632
Actually, it was a five-point game early in fourth quarter before Korkmaz went off.
yeah, that's when the unsustainable 3 shooting came, I meant a good team vs a bad team only stays close if the good team either doesn't make their 3s or has a big FT disadvantage, once they get the 3s, it's over.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
yeah, that's when the unsustainable 3 shooting came, I meant a good team vs a bad team only stays close if the good team either doesn't make their 3s or has a big FT disadvantage, once they get the 3s, it's over.
Well, Philly will be shooting more 3s this season. That’s a good thing, and they have a few good shooters coming off the bench, including Georges Niang, a funky 6-foot-7 forward who has shot 40 percent from beyond the arc in his NBA career, mostly as a reserve with Utah. He was first forward off the bench tonight.
 

Ale Xander

killed off Vin Scully
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
43,714
Ben used this to his advantage so often. Teams would back off and give him a penetrating lane which he often took advantage of and unlike many non-shooters he is an excellent finisher in the lane.
Well-rebutted.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,632
Well, Philly will be shooting more 3s this season. That’s a good thing, and they have a few good shooters coming off the bench, including Georges Niang, a funky 6-foot-7 forward who has shot 40 percent from beyond the arc in his NBA career, mostly as a reserve with Utah. He was first forward off the bench tonight.
yeah they are a good 3pt shooting team, I'm just saying they're not shooting 52% probably more the 37-38 range.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
yeah they are a good 3pt shooting team, I'm just saying they're not shooting 52% probably more the 37-38 range.
Nobody expects 52 percent every night but for anyone to call the 76ers a good 3-pt shooting team warms my heart. This team’s identity will change with Ben gone and once a trade is made, it may change again. Gonna be a long strange trip.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
4,471
Imaginationland
The focus should be on the game, not the soap opera. Maybe the drama will subside after the home opener. But we should have a better read on this team after they play Brooklyn.
I think it's safe to say that unless the Sixers tell Simmons to take a long paid leave, he'll be on the front page pretty much every day.

View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1451251339300769796?s=20


If he's out of the picture and the team is doing alright, things should quiet down a bit.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
I think it's safe to say that unless the Sixers tell Simmons to take a long paid leave, he'll be on the front page pretty much every day.

View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1451251339300769796?s=20


If he's out of the picture and the team is doing alright, things should quiet down a bit.
If Simmons goes on the injured list, he can hide there. The media will cover the team and focus on what Morey and Brand are doing to make a trade and move on. The focus will be on team management, just as it was when Fultz went on the IL. Simmons, like Fultz, never has talked openly to the media. He will be happy to maintain a low profile.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
Thanks to two softies, 76ers are 2-1 in their first three games but they blew an 8-point lead in the final three minutes against the Nets. Who to blame? Everyone except Seth Curry. And Ben.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
Sixers visit Knicks tonight at 7:30. TNT. Guess we’ll find out a lot more about Philly, assuming Drummond is available. He missed the OKC game Sunday but should be back tonight. He is a more versatile backup to Embiid than Dwight Howard. Rebounds and passes. Makes free throws.
The Knicks are on the verge of breaking through and own a deeper, longer backcourt than Philly does. 76ers used to put Simmons down low against the Knicks but you can’t do that with Tyrese Maxey.
Knicks have lost 15 straight to Philly.
 

Gash Prex

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 18, 2002
5,273
Embiid looks awful - standing around (limping?), long 3s, turnovers etc…

I’ve seen this story before where he comes back strong in the 2nd half but right now it’s tough to see
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
22,531
Sixers crowd broke out into a chant tonight. “F#%* Ben Simmons!”

You stay classy now Philly.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
Embiid looks awful - standing around (limping?), long 3s, turnovers etc…

I’ve seen this story before where he comes back strong in the 2nd half but right now it’s tough to see
Jim Brown did the same thing after almost every tackle. Slow to get up, limping, then boom! Embiid likes sprawling on the floor and says he often just goes down in sections because it’s easier than trying to stop his fall all at once. I guess falling is harder when you are 86 inches tall.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
58,038
Mitchell Robinson too, he has gone down seemingly injured probably 4 times in the first 5 games, and every time he has ended up fine.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
17,823
If Maxey ever did demand a trade, he was really smart to back off it. Him and Thybulle are benefiting greatly from Simmons absence.

I'm curious how many blocks Thybulle will end up with. Jordan had 125 and 131 in back to back years. Crazy. Not sure what the record is for a guard, though.

edit: It's Jordan, depending on what you label TMac. As far as I can tell anyway.
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
8,400
76ers back to fining Simmons, saying he’s not cooperating with the team’s physicians on his medical health treatment (worth noting that he is working with mental health professionals through the unions):
The Philadelphia 76ers fined All-Star guard Ben Simmons his $360,000 game salary for missing Thursday night's victory over the Detroit Pistons and plan to continue fining him until he cooperates with team physicians on his mental health and fulfills other basketball-related obligations, sources told ESPN on Friday.

The Sixers will again place Simmons' future salary into an escrow account, sources said. Earlier this season, Philadelphia released Simmons' money from escrow after he had been initially cooperative on a path toward returning to play.

Sixers officials believe that they have been supportive of Simmons' stated need for mental health assistance and that they are left no choice but for these actions in response to the three-time All-Star's refusal to provide basic details of his course of mental health meetings, evaluation or treatments or to accept consultation with any specialists arranged by the team, sources said. Simmons has worked with mental health professionals via the National Basketball Players Association.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32559520/philadelphia-76ers-resume-fining-ben-simmons-sources-say
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
17,823

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
701
Brooklyn by way of Orono
Does he have to provide basic details of his mental health meetings, evaluation or treatments? What are basic details?
Given privacy laws, I would imagine a formal statement from the union indicting he’s getting help would be all they get. Based on the contract language that’s been posted in this thread, I would say he would win in a grievance from this point forward.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
22,531
76ers back to fining Simmons, saying he’s not cooperating with the team’s physicians on his medical health treatment (worth noting that he is working with mental health professionals through the unions):

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32559520/philadelphia-76ers-resume-fining-ben-simmons-sources-say
Matter of time before Team Ben found a loophole through the Union to continue getting paid. I can’t imagine how this fine holds. I only hope the retraction makes headlines and Philly fans treat Morey as they did Simmons.
 

JCizzle

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2006
14,925
Given privacy laws, I would imagine a formal statement from the union indicting he’s getting help would be all they get. Based on the contract language that’s been posted in this thread, I would say he would win in a grievance from this point forward.
Sounds like the millionaire version of a doctor's note. I'm sure the Sixers aren't asking for details regarding his sessions, but merely basic proof that he's attending them. If the union provided that, I agree that this is going to be messy for the Sixers.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Staff member
Dope
Apr 9, 2007
14,132
Washington
Sounds like the millionaire version of a doctor's note. I'm sure the Sixers aren't asking for details regarding his sessions, but merely basic proof that he's attending them. If the union provided that, I agree that this is going to be messy for the Sixers.
That would be my guess too.

Beyond whatever is going on with mental health treatment, according to the article there are a few other issues:

Simmons has been showing up regularly at the team's facility for some daily basketball activity with coaches and individual teammates, but Philadelphia will begin fining him again for failures to participate in other requirements, such as strength training, film study and some presence at team practices and game-day shootarounds, sources said.
Participating is some daily basketball activities and not others that don't involve on court activity, including strength training and film study sounds really strange to me. Strength training and film study exacerbate his mental health challenges? Seems like a tough sell.

I'm curious how the grievance process will work out.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,632
Given privacy laws, I would imagine a formal statement from the union indicting he’s getting help would be all they get. Based on the contract language that’s been posted in this thread, I would say he would win in a grievance from this point forward.
Doesn't sound like what they are asking for, they mention his refusal to meet with specialists they choose as a factor, and they are being very vague about what "information and course of treatment" means, but that the paragraph notes he is meeting with NBPA provided specialists indicates they know he is meeting with them... so it's more they want to be involved and he's telling them no.

If they merely wanted confirmation that he was meeting with specialists they would say so, including that they want him to meet their specialists and vaguary about "information and course of treatment" tells me they want at least some level of detail on what is going on in his meetings and any medication or treatment, and want him to get second opinions from their staff. This isn't "we want to make sure you are seeing someone" it's "we want to have a say in your treatment".
 

Swedgin

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2013
491
Given privacy laws, I would imagine a formal statement from the union indicting he’s getting help would be all they get. Based on the contract language that’s been posted in this thread, I would say he would win in a grievance from this point forward.
There is no need to imagine. The CBA is publicly available. The uniform player contract includes the following provision:

"(h) (i) A Player who consults or is treated by a physician (including a psychiatrist)... other than a physician or other professional designated by the Team shall give notice of such consultation or treatment to the Team and shall provide the Team with all information it may request concerning any condition that in the judgment of the Team’s physician may affect the Player’s ability to play skilled basketball."

Therapists records would seem to be off limits, but the team is entitled to information from his psychiatrist. If he's not seeing a psychiatrist, that begs the question.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Staff member
Dope
Apr 9, 2007
14,132
Washington
If they merely wanted confirmation that he was meeting with specialists they would say so, including that they want him to meet their specialists and vaguary about "information and course of treatment" tells me they want at least some level of detail on what is going on in his meetings and any medication or treatment, and want him to get second opinions from their staff. This isn't "we want to make sure you are seeing someone" it's "we want to have a say in your treatment".
I suspect the issue may boil down to the team wanting justification from Simmons' mental health care providers for what team activities Simmons can participate in or not and why. To what extent can Simmons pick and choose how he wants to participate in team activities and what information is he obligated to share about his treatment to support it?
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
701
Brooklyn by way of Orono
There is no need to imagine. The CBA is publicly available. The uniform player contract includes the following provision:

"(h) (i) A Player who consults or is treated by a physician (including a psychiatrist)... other than a physician or other professional designated by the Team shall give notice of such consultation or treatment to the Team and shall provide the Team with all information it may request concerning any condition that in the judgment of the Team’s physician may affect the Player’s ability to play skilled basketball."

Therapists records would seem to be off limits, but the team is entitled to information from his psychiatrist. If he's not seeing a psychiatrist, that begs the question.
Thanks, that’s helpful. It informs Article 2, Section 4 D that a player’s salary cannot be withheld “if such failure has been caused by the player’s mental disability”.

I suspect the issue may boil down to the team wanting justification from Simmons' mental health care providers for what team activities Simmons can participate in or not and why. To what extent can Simmons pick and choose how he wants to participate in team activities and what information is he obligated to share about his treatment to support it?
That makes sense, and a letter from a friendly and well compensated psychiatrist stating that Ben’s mental health is dynamic and he needs the flexibility to participate at whatever level he is able on a given day should do it.

It’s worth remembering this may actually be true. There’s still huge stigma to mental health challenges (just look at this thread) no probably not the first choice for BS to BS.

Heck, the NFL by comparison owns the players like a pair of shoes and even Mighty Bill couldn’t convince Gilmore to stop faking a hamstring.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
Meanwhile, Philly sits atop the East with a 7-2 record. The replacements have been fun to watch and they don’t even tank the second half of back-to-back games. If we took a leading star off every team, how much would it hurt? Short run, not much. Teamwork can cover up for awesomeness for a week or two.

Maxey, Niang, Thybulle, Curry and Embiid might let Morey off the hook and buy him time to get a deal done next month. Both sides would benefit from ending this soap opera as soon as possible.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
22,531
Meanwhile, Philly sits atop the East with a 7-2 record. The replacements have been fun to watch and they don’t even tank the second half of back-to-back games. If we took a leading star off every team, how much would it hurt? Short run, not much. Teamwork can cover up for awesomeness for a week or two.

Maxey, Niang, Thybulle, Curry and Embiid might let Morey off the hook and buy him time to get a deal done next month. Both sides would benefit from ending this soap opera as soon as possible.
Take the Bulls out and the other six teams they beat have a combined record of 12-38. The schedule has been very good to them early on. These next 10 games leading up to Thanksgiving will be a good test. If they can manage to go 5-5 that’s a good sign. I’ve got them 4-6.
 
Last edited:

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
23,632
Meanwhile, Philly sits atop the East with a 7-2 record. The replacements have been fun to watch and they don’t even tank the second half of back-to-back games. If we took a leading star off every team, how much would it hurt? Short run, not much. Teamwork can cover up for awesomeness for a week or two.

Maxey, Niang, Thybulle, Curry and Embiid might let Morey off the hook and buy him time to get a deal done next month. Both sides would benefit from ending this soap opera as soon as possible.
Lowe covered it some, but they've played a very easy schedule, and also Seth Curry has a .761 TS, which would be the NBA record by... oh about 100 points, almost 150 off the nearest no-center.
It's good that they've won a lot, it's not being done in a way that is likely sustainable.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
Seth has been insane. Everyone is playing better ball except for Embiid, and him just being there for 30 minutes is enough. With this franchise, you enjoy the little moments because the big ones tend to go badly. So for now I see a team playing well, held together by a veteran coach who needs a career boost. Ben is coming back next month in another uniform.
 

Tony C

Dope
Dope
Apr 13, 2000
13,075
Sure, but at the same time they're doing it w/out Simmons and with Embiid playing sub-standard ball. Still a sign the supporting cast is strong. Some nice small deals.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
Sure, but at the same time they're doing it w/out Simmons and with Embiid playing sub-standard ball. Still a sign the supporting cast is strong. Some nice small deals.
76ers missed on several elite lottery picks but hit on some long shots, including Shake Milton, Maxey, Korkmaz, and now Niang and Drummond for the second team. Philly’s second team has a chance to change games if the whole roster is healthy.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
12,853
Santa Monica
Meanwhile, Philly sits atop the East with a 7-2 record. The replacements have been fun to watch and they don’t even tank the second half of back-to-back games. If we took a leading star off every team, how much would it hurt? Short run, not much. Teamwork can cover up for awesomeness for a week or two.

Maxey, Niang, Thybulle, Curry and Embiid might let Morey off the hook and buy him time to get a deal done next month. Both sides would benefit from ending this soap opera as soon as possible.
Seth Curry has been underrated for years. Niang/Drummond were nice pickups and Maxey has stepped up

Still expect Morey to be patient and wait until Dec/Jan to deal Simmons. Their record won't put them in any rush
 
Last edited:

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
20,883
pawtucket
During Embiid’s absence, 76ers have been able to get a good look at 6-11, 235-pound rookie Charles Bassey, Conference USA Player of Year and Defensive POY for Western KY who fell to 53rd in draft due to a lingering leg/shin injury from college that is fine now. Bassey held his own against Jolic on Thursday night. He blocks shots, seems well-coached and understands the game.

All the injuries and the one soap opera have given opportunities for Bassey, Maxey, Korkmaz to improve in game conditions.

https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/sixers-charles-bassey-doc-rivers-tyrese-maxey-20211119.html
 
Last edited: