2021-2028 Pats: Is Bill the man for the Re-Billed?

Do we have faith in BB the GM for this rebuild?

  • Yes

    Votes: 229 87.1%
  • No

    Votes: 34 12.9%

  • Total voters
    263

Steve Dillard

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I’m actually skeptical that Belichick at this stage in his career and at his age can rebuild this thing. I’m not fond of the quote he said a few years ago that said “At this stage I only want to coach the players I want to coach”. It’s not a quote that he should have said.
This will be somebody's sig someday.
I thought this is the largest question looming over the team the next half-decade. Part of it is wrapped in the Brady vs. BB debate, but the other more nuanced issue to me is whether BB's strengths were suited for having a GOAT foundation, and mixing and matching around him. Did Brady allow for BB's personnel strength of never overpaying, and benefitting from players willing to take less in order to fit around the GOAT and the winning. To play into the quote, did BB have the luxury of only looking for his players, when rebuilding requires a whole different mentality.
 

RFDA2000

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I presume the four no votes just voted too quickly based on the thread title and not the poll question.
 

Seels

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yes but willing to turn that in to a no if Newton is on this team next year
 

BigSoxFan

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He's the greatest NFL coach of all time. If Pats fans don't have faith in him, then who?
My read of this thread is that it’s about BB the GM and not BB the coach. Clearly, nobody should have doubts about the coach. But, I think it’s fair to question his chops at rebuilding the team in a post-Brady world.

I personally view this year as a throwaway year and hard to judge him on his roster building skills. This offseason will tell more of the story along with the hopeful return of some of the opt outs.

BB needs to find a serviceable QB to make it all work. I’ll be interested in watching him address that major issue in the coming months.
 

tims4wins

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I’ll admit to voting no. For 20 years in BB I have trusted. I don’t believe he will ever again put together an 11+ win team. It doesn’t mean I won’t love him until eternity. I just don’t believe he will turn this around.
 

SMU_Sox

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They gambled on risky bargain WR after the other and couldn’t afford to sign a TE. He had some difficult years in free agency 2018, 2019, and 2020. He finally has some cap space next year and some rookies stepping into starting roles unlike other years. It’s going to be hard and he’s going to have to have better draft and mid-tier free agent luck but I think he can still do it. I voted yes. This off-season will heavily influence my vote though. If he doesn’t upgrade skilled position players I will reconsider. I just would bet though that he does.
 

vadertime

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I voted 'no'. As a coach, yes the confidence is still there. As a GM, he has flat out shit the bed on the majority of draft picks and FA pickups the last few years, and I have no reason to have confidence in a quality draft and/or free agent class let alone an entire rebuild.
 

Koufax

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I voted yes but he really needs to find someone who can evaluate wide receiver talent in the draft. The consistent failure in that department is a glaring problem. Whoever has been doing it for the Steelers should get a Godfather offer from Bill.
 

Leather

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This seems like an awfully rash poll/thread based on a season anyone paying attention knew would be at least mediocre. He’s great at his job but he’s not a comic book superhero, which is what some folks seem to demand or else he’s washed up.

Boston fans really can be shitty.
 

heavyde050

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I believe Bill will reach another Super Bowl before Brady
I think this too, but only because BB will be coaching after Brady retires. I don’t really think either of them make it in the next 5 seasons. I hope I am wrong.

Edit - contrary to the last 20 years - making the Super Bowl is very difficult.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I think this too, but only because BB will be coaching after Brady retires. I don’t really think either of them make it in the next 5 seasons. I hope I am wrong.

Edit - contrary to the last 20 years - making the Super Bowl is very difficult.
Bill will be 73 in 5 years. I think that’s the outside horizon of when he’ll still be doing this. If he hasn’t shown signs of turning it around by then he should probably go enjoy his boat on ACK.

Brady will be 48 in five years. I know we think both guys are super heroes but Brady has 1-2 more years to do it. Bill has around five or so, maybe fewer. So saying neither will do it within five years is basically saying they’ve both gone to their last SB (which is a fine opinion to have, for the record).
 

E5 Yaz

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I voted No.

One of the things that kept momentum going within the organization was that some players were willing to come from elsewhere, or stay in New England, for less money simply because of that momentum. I don't see the competitive edge being in the Patriots favor any longer -- they're no longer seen as a team at the top, and the willingness to be part of a rebuild, however slight, is only going to be attractive if the price is right.

On top of that, as has been discussed ad nauseum, outside of running back, the skill positions on offense are in need of help ... in large part because of poor personnel decisions by those making the decisions. Unless someone comes into the mix who can see NFL talent in college players at those sports, it's unlikely that weakness is going to magically change.

I suspect we're in for a string of 7-9 to 10-6 seasons, dominated by defense, with a playoff run or two sprinkled in along the way. Enough to keep the fanbase interested and frustrated.

Finally, there's another piece of Belichick's modus operandi to consider ... knowing when to move on from someone a year too early than a year too late. At some point, that will apply to the coach as well.

This seems like an awfully rash poll/thread based on a season anyone paying attention knew would be at least mediocre. He’s great at his job but he’s not a comic book superhero, which is what some folks seem to demand or else he’s washed up.

Boston fans really can be shitty.
This is bullshit. We've been talking about the transition of the Patriots since Brady left. Hell, we've been talking about it for a couple of years before Brady left.

I don't see anyone saying he's washed up. What I see being said is that the system that kept the engine running for two decades needs to be tinkered with to rebound into the ranks of title contenders. The league has caught up, they are significant key holes on the roster and the strategies that worked in the past might not fly when you're in a rebuild as they might when you're at the top.

And some folks think he might not be the one to be able to make those adjustments. If we can't discuss that here, then what's the purpose of this board?
 
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FL4WL3SS

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I voted yes but he really needs to find someone who can evaluate wide receiver talent in the draft. The consistent failure in that department is a glaring problem. Whoever has been doing it for the Steelers should get a Godfather offer from Bill.
I don't understand why this is a hangup. Just because he can't draft WR doesn't mean he hasn't been phenomenal at finding WR talent.

For as bad as his drafting has been he should get equal or more credit for finding guys like Welker, Amendola, and turning a qb into a HoF worthy WR (Edelman).

Who cares about the draft, he's done an excellent job filling in the WR position for 20 years (ok minus a couple years nobody is perfect).
 

bankshot1

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The guy is 68 and is closing in on the end of his career. Speaking as a guy who is a year older than BB, my personal observation is that the energy and the intensity of being to able to work 70+ hour weeks at supreme performance levels to not only compete but to win at the highest levels, represents a pretty big challenge at 68.

Many of the tasks he did himself or had close trusted associates who he had worked with for years are now gone. Scar comeback! But Ernie's still around. He will likely have to delegate to others not as good or good as they once were, or are still learning. Further he has an old team that needs a fair amount of retooling and not to beat up an old guy, but his drafts over the last several years have not yielded a lot of talent. And lastly Buffalo, Miami and the Jets (Trevor!) may all have their QBs of the future right now, or will soon. We don't, and unless there is a miracle, like finding that gem at #199, or the Jets trade us Darnold for bupkis,. Then there are other teams far ahead of the Pats on talent, the Chiefs, Rams even BB's old team, the Browns.

So I think its a longshot to expect a championship in the next 5 years. I think there are too many obstacles for BB to overcome .
 

BigSoxFan

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I voted No.

One of the things that kept momentum going within the organization was that some players were willing to come from elsewhere, or stay in New England, for less money simply because of that momentum. I don't see the competitive edge being in the Patriots favor any longer -- they're no longer seen as a team at the top, and the willingness to be part of a rebuild is only going to be attractive if the price is right.

On top of that, as has been discussed ad nauseum, outside of running back, the skill positions on offense are in need of help ... in large part because of poor personnel decisions by those making the decisions. Unless someone comes into the mix who can see NFL talent in college players at those sports, it's unlikely that weakness is going to magically change.

I suspect we're in for a string of 7-9 to 10-6 seasons, dominated by defense, with a playoff run or two sprinkled in along the way. Enough to keep the fanbase interested and frustrated.

Finally, there's another piece of Belichick's modus operandi to consider ... knowing when to move on from someone a year too early than a year too late. At some point, that will apply to the coach as well.



This is bullshit. We've been talking about the transition of the Patriots since Brady left. Hell, we've been talking about it for a couple of years before Brady left.

I don't see anyone saying he's washed up. What I see being said is that the system that kept the engine running for two decades needs to be tinkered with to rebound into the ranks of title contenders. The league has caught up, they are significant key holes on the roster and the strategies that worked in the past might not fly when you're in a rebuild as they might when you're at the top.

And some folks think he might not be the one to be able to make those adjustments. If we can't discuss that here, then what's the purpose of this board?
Well said. Belichick obviously has the chops to do it but it is completely fair to wonder if he will do it. The Patriots franchise hasn’t had this much uncertainty in 2 decades so we’re in uncharted territory for the most part. We’re pretty much about to complete the 2000 season equivalent only difference is that team had a solid but flawed QB in Bledsoe and the GOAT waiting in the wings.

The range of possibilities for the QB position is pretty much the entire spectrum, at least as far as 2021 is concerned. Cam is complete trash as a player. Stidham is somehow even trashier. Neither is the answer for 2021. There aren’t too many good options in FA especially if Jimmy stays in SF. The draft might have some decent long term options in Jones, Trask, etc. but who knows. Getting any of the top 4 guys will be tough, if not impossible.

None of the other problems with the offense really matter if the QB situation isn’t solved.
 

luckiestman

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Guys, WTF? You’re 6-6 with a QB that can’t throw the fucking ball. Any other coach is 3-9 at best right now.
 

j-man

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bill is going to coach utill he beat suala record unless jimmy g gets cut by SF i think cam will be back because he will take atother 1y 1 mil deal which any other qb will want at least 5-10 million

u have a 4-6 year window and this is just a guess but

2020 8-8
2021 9-7
2022 7-9
2023 8-8
2024 10-6
 

Pandemonium67

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At this point there are 92 Yes votes to 15 No, or 86%. I voted Yes, but I can certainly see the argument for voting No. That's for BB as a GM only. Strictly as a coach I think he's still got tons going for him, and I'm happy to ride him all the way.

As a GM I'm less sure. The glaring need at the skill positions continues to stick out, and it's been a couple of years now. Some of it is bad injury luck, but it's been a weak spot for too long. I mean, you look at KC and wonder how the hell they can be so loaded while we have Meyers, Byrd, Harry and Izzo. (Yet still we coulda beat them...I don't really understand.)

But I have faith. I don't know if we'll win the SB anytime soon, but I think the Pats will be playing games in January '22.
 

heavyde050

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Bill will be 73 in 5 years. I think that’s the outside horizon of when he’ll still be doing this. If he hasn’t shown signs of turning it around by then he should probably go enjoy his boat on ACK.

Brady will be 48 in five years. I know we think both guys are super heroes but Brady has 1-2 more years to do it. Bill has around five or so, maybe fewer. So saying neither will do it within five years is basically saying they’ve both gone to their last SB (which is a fine opinion to have, for the record).
That makes a lot of sense. I guess if I had to put money on it....I would say they both have been to their last one, unless Brady gets luck this year or next (I doubt it).
For BB, I guess the Pats could make it back in maybe 3 or 4 years, but it is just so tough to make it to a Super Bowl, especially without having a QB. I am fairly confident BB is never going to a Super Bowl with Cam Newton.

Edit - BB is still the best coach I have ever seen, and his run the last 20 years will probably never be replicated.
 
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heavyde050

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At this point there are 92 Yes votes to 15 No, or 86%. I voted Yes, but I can certainly see the argument for voting No. That's for BB as a GM only. Strictly as a coach I think he's still got tons going for him, and I'm happy to ride him all the way.

As a GM I'm less sure. The glaring need at the skill positions continues to stick out, and it's been a couple of years now. Some of it is bad injury luck, but it's been a weak spot for too long. I mean, you look at KC and wonder how the hell they can be so loaded while we have Meyers, Byrd, Harry and Izzo. (Yet still we coulda beat them...I don't really understand.)

But I have faith. I don't know if we'll win the SB anytime soon, but I think the Pats will be playing games in January '22.
I definitely could see the playoffs again next season, but it all depends what happens at QB.

Edit - I voted Yes. Having faith in the rebuild is a slam dunk for me with BB, I am just not sure if that will end in another Super Bowl title. I have complete faith that BB will get the team back in contention or on the path to contention.
 
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Jimbodandy

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I voted 'no'. As a coach, yes the confidence is still there. As a GM, he has flat out shit the bed on the majority of draft picks and FA pickups the last few years, and I have no reason to have confidence in a quality draft and/or free agent class let alone an entire rebuild.
The last few years? You realize that we're in a 1-year super bowl drought and won 3 of the last 6 championships, right?
 

54thMA

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I voted No.

One of the things that kept momentum going within the organization was that some players were willing to come from elsewhere, or stay in New England, for less money simply because of that momentum. I don't see the competitive edge being in the Patriots favor any longer -- they're no longer seen as a team at the top, and the willingness to be part of a rebuild, however slight, is only going to be attractive if the price is right.

On top of that, as has been discussed ad nauseum, outside of running back, the skill positions on offense are in need of help ... in large part because of poor personnel decisions by those making the decisions. Unless someone comes into the mix who can see NFL talent in college players at those sports, it's unlikely that weakness is going to magically change.

I suspect we're in for a string of 7-9 to 10-6 seasons, dominated by defense, with a playoff run or two sprinkled in along the way. Enough to keep the fanbase interested and frustrated.

Finally, there's another piece of Belichick's modus operandi to consider ... knowing when to move on from someone a year too early than a year too late. At some point, that will apply to the coach as well.



This is bullshit. We've been talking about the transition of the Patriots since Brady left. Hell, we've been talking about it for a couple of years before Brady left.

I don't see anyone saying he's washed up. What I see being said is that the system that kept the engine running for two decades needs to be tinkered with to rebound into the ranks of title contenders. The league has caught up, they are significant key holes on the roster and the strategies that worked in the past might not fly when you're in a rebuild as they might when you're at the top.

And some folks think he might not be the one to be able to make those adjustments. If we can't discuss that here, then what's the purpose of this board?
I voted yes, but I also agree with a lot of this, mainly talented players who in the past would come here for less money who were chasing a ring probably won't be doing that going forward.

And as people have rightfully pointed out regarding less that stellar recent drafts, you also have to look at the bigger picture, ie, trades and free agent signings, the Patriots have made some very good trades and some very good free agent pick ups, you have to look at the entire body of work.

The thing that amazes me about this team is they had a great 20 year run, but it in effect was two dynasties in one, 2001-2007 and 2014-2020, 3-1 in Super Bowls on the front end, 3-1 in Super Bowls on the back end, 2008-2013 resulted in 0-1 in the Super Bowl, but 3 trips to the AFCCG.

Incredible really.
 

E5 Yaz

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The thing that amazes me about this team is they had a great 20 year run, but it in effect was two dynasties in one, 2001-2007 and 2014-2020, 3-1 in Super Bowls on the front end, 3-1 in Super Bowls on the back end, 2008-2013 resulted in 0-1 in the Super Bowl, but 3 trips to the AFCCG.
If, however, they were to go through a similar seven-year "drought" of being good, but not good enough, Belichick won't be the coach in 2027
 

Jimbodandy

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You can still do a bad job drafting and in fa and win, it just catches up with you.
I hear you, but you're saying that he has been utterly failing at both for years. We we still reigning Super Bowl champions in February of this year. Are the refs on payroll?
 

Salem's Lot

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This team has a QB that can’t throw, multiple important veterans opted out on defense, and couldn’t spend any money this offseason because they’re paying the cap bill that they had to run up to win 3 Super Bowls in 5 years, (the last one being 22 months ago) and they have a chance to finish 9-7 with the worst case scenario of 7-9.

This guy is the best coach in football and I have all the confidence in the world in him rebuilding this franchise. In fact, I don’t want anyone else doing it.
 
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I don't know if he will win another SB because there is a lot of luck involved in that after a team is positioned for it, but I have no doubt he will have the team positioned for it within 3 years or so.
 

streeter88

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The above posts I agreed with most walked a fine line between "we're in a 1 year drought" / "we have had not 1 but 2 dynasties" and "we have no weapons to show for the last several drafts". We are truly spoiled if, as luckiestman says, we can complain about being 6-7 despite a QB who can't throw the ball.

I voted yes, but I think at some point ownership and/or the fans will run out of patience with BB the GM. It isn't the next 1-2 years, but it might be by 2023 if there is no tangible turnaround. At that point BB will be 72, and maybe just gunning for Shula's record. If so, it might make sense to hire a specialist GM.

But then the question is, if not BB, then who? And that is a tough question I think.
 
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I am fully on board that BB drafts have been lacking the last several years, especially as it relates to offensive playmakers. Having said that...

1) Even if he is truly a bust - and it sure as hell looks like he is - N’Keal Harry still went in the draft in a slot where LOTS of people (psst...all of the people) had him going - late 1st-early 2nd. So, as much as I hate how he’s looked so far, and as much as I wanted Deebo (a far better system fit), and as much as it’s a bummer, it’s not as simple as ”They were stupid to take him” and more like, “Yeah, that looks like it didn’t work out. Shit.”
2) It is, we know we know, a bit early to judge last year’s class, but even with the so-far disappointments of Harry and JoeJuan Williams, a draft class that lands you players like Wino, Damien Harris, Cowart and Bailey is a far cry from a failed crop. if their trajectory continues, that’s four AT LEAST solid contributors. That’s a GOOD draft.
3) With that same caveat in mind, this year’s draft class has shown even more promise: Onwenu. Uche. Dugger. Herron. Again, who knows and it’s early, but if JUST those players continue in the direction they seem to be headed, regardless of the development of the TEs and Anfernee Jennings, that’s a really good draft.

This team has gotten old and has some pretty serious deficiencies in some pretty important areas. There have been some big - and impactful - whiffs, and that’s vexing and concerning. But there’s hope in recent drafts, and to just lump the last two in with some of the very weak ones from the last several years seems not only easy/lazy, but also really off-base.

Sign me up for more of Bill continuing the rebuild and for - recency-bias alert - drafting Zach effing Wilson at #14-ish overall. He is blowing up my TV right now!
 

wiffleballhero

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I voted yes. The biggest reason to vote no is that he is old and another Tom Brady -- with the full combination of factors therein -- is not coming through that door again. And yet, I think there is one more run in him. Get a serviceable QB, get younger and get the team salary situation to a more functional level (which includes moving past the Covid strain on the roster) and you have a shot. They are 6-7 but everything else being the same with Brady on this team they are probably 9-4 ( three of the Buff, Den, Houston and Seattle games).

Newton really is not good.

Edit: I also think the thread title should change so that a yes/no response to the title would line-up to a yes/no response to the poll.
 

Dotrat

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The organization is well run, with a solid foundation of people, processes, goals, expectations, etc. Ownership is supportive. I think the key issue, then, is how willing BB is to delegate as he grows older. Caserio is a more than capable personnel guy while Josh and the other coordinators/position coaches are also strong. As long as this is the case, the Pats should be competitive or, assuming good fortune at filling the QB spot, good enough to make deep playoff runs.
 

BigJimEd

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If, however, they were to go through a similar seven-year "drought" of being good, but not good enough, Belichick won't be the coach in 2027
Are you saying he would retire or that he'd be fired for not being good enough?

I don't expect him to do be coaching in 2027 but I would consider that a successful rebuild. If they are serious title contenders, winning the division while averaging 12+ wins a season then the organization is doing a good job.
 

Bowhemian

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This team has a QB that can’t throw, multiple important veterans opted out on defense, and couldn’t spend any money this offseason because they’re paying the cap bill that they had to run up to win 3 Super Bowls in 5 years, (the last one being 22 months ago) and they have a chance to finish 9-7 with the worst case scenario of 7-9.

This guy is the best coach in football and I have all the confidence in the world in him rebuilding this franchise. In fact, I don’t want anyone else doing it.
This is exactly how I feel.
 

joe dokes

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No.
No qualifiers needed.
I trust that just as BB jettisons players "a year too soon rather than a year too late," he will do the same to himself.

As for the present, I can't say it better than this:

This team has a QB that can’t throw, multiple important veterans opted out on defense, and couldn’t spend any money this offseason because they’re paying the cap bill that they had to run up to win 3 Super Bowls in 5 years, (the last one being 22 months ago) and they have a chance to finish 9-7 with the worst case scenario of 7-9.
This guy is the best coach in football and I have all the confidence in the world in him rebuilding this franchise. In fact, I don’t want anyone else doing it.
Edit: I answered the thread title not the poll.
 
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lexrageorge

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It is difficult to build a good football team, where good is one that consistently competes for the championship. I think Belichick knows this better than anyone else. To some extent, the Pats caught lightning in a bottle; no franchise during the time he was coach has been as consistently successful as the Patriots. Every one of the teams that challenged New England during their run has gone through big ups and downs, including the Steelers, Ravens, Giants, Eagles, and Seahawks. Meanwhile, the Pats will win a single digit number of games this season for the first time in 18 years, an NFL record.

Will that happen again? Unlikely, even with Belichick as coach/GM. But I doubt very much Belichick simply forgot how to build a team, or that his philosophy with regards to the characteristics he looks for in players has somehow become outdated. He is not a baseball GM looking for "RBI guys", a basketball GM looking for "a rebounder", or a hockey GM trading for a slow-footed player with "grit". There are a lot of coin flips when it comes to building a football team; the Pats had a lot of those coin flips come up heads in a very big way. Belichick the GM is still the same guy that drafted Richard Seymour, Matt Light, Nate Solder, Asante Samuel, Donta Hightower, Devin McCourty, Gronk, Deion Branch, Chandler Jones, Vince Wilfork, and Julian Edelman. The same GM that traded for Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Doug Gilmore and Corey Dillon. And signed Chris Hogan, Amendola, Darrelle Revis, and Brandon LaFell. And picked up unwanted players such as Malcolm Butler and JC Jackson.

Yes, he had a huge coin come up heads in TB12. And he's had some notable misses as well. And we've seen some of those misses pile up when it comes to the draft recently, a dry spell that every single team in the league periodically encounters (including the vaunted Steelers and Packers).

The current rebuild could easily take multiple seasons; I firmly believe Belichick the GM realizes this. There were a ton of GFIN moves made to maximize the Brady window, and the piper had to be paid this season. But he starts the upcoming offseason with a clean salary cap, plenty of money to spend, reasonably favorable draft position, and potentially a good crop of younger players from some recent drafts. I'm betting heads on this one.