2021-2022 NBA Game Thread!

benhogan

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Ladies and Gentleman,

I bring to you tonight, one Dennis Smith Jr. Enjoy…..or cringe.

View: https://twitter.com/worldwidewob/status/1491641970250301446?s=12
"Literally just -- I'm tired as hell right now," James said. "I just want to get some wine and get up tomorrow. I feel good about what tomorrow has in store, and we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens as far as the deadline, but other than that, I'm kind of just focused on what we can do to be better."

The Laker's GM Bron/Klutch will have a busy day tomorrow extorting negotiating with other teams
 

lexrageorge

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Lakers are pretty much locked into the play-in game, especially with Portland and Sacramento waving the white flag. And I don't see this team going all out to pass Denver in the standings.
 

BigSoxFan

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Lakers are pretty much locked into the play-in game, especially with Portland and Sacramento waving the white flag. And I don't see this team going all out to pass Denver in the standings.
Yeah, I expect them to make the playoffs and then get stomped by Phoenix or Golden State. It should be glorious.
 

lexrageorge

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Yeah, I expect them to make the playoffs and then get stomped by Phoenix or Golden State. It should be glorious.
Beyond the 2 obvious names, is there anyone on the Lakers that would start over any of the current Celtics' starters?

Didn't think so.
 

BaseballJones

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Not that I care that much, but it will be interesting to see how history remembers Westbrook as a player. Clearly some eye-popping numbers, and for almost all of his career he was an absolute max effort guy. But there's something way off about him, and it's not just his shot. How he has never really won anything, I'll never know. Usually when you have a guy with real talent (and he does have real talent) and puts in that kind of effort, and who's played with some other great players, you get excellent results.

I mean, even on this Laker team, as third banana, he's averaging 18.3 points, 7.8 rebounds, and 7.6 assists. The basic numbers seem fine for a #3 guy on a team. But I don't know. His whole is not equal to the sum of his parts, I don't think. Weird.
 

Cellar-Door

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Not that I care that much, but it will be interesting to see how history remembers Westbrook as a player. Clearly some eye-popping numbers, and for almost all of his career he was an absolute max effort guy. But there's something way off about him, and it's not just his shot. How he has never really won anything, I'll never know. Usually when you have a guy with real talent (and he does have real talent) and puts in that kind of effort, and who's played with some other great players, you get excellent results.

I mean, even on this Laker team, as third banana, he's averaging 18.3 points, 7.8 rebounds, and 7.6 assists. The basic numbers seem fine for a #3 guy on a team. But I don't know. His whole is not equal to the sum of his parts, I don't think. Weird.
On offense. On D he was a lazy freelancer off-ball starting a few years into his career just like Rondo.

Westbrook is weird. He was one of the best athletes in the history of the game, he was aggressive and fearless. He also couldn't shoot, never improved, and refused to adjust to that weakness. On both ends he had a strong tendancy to stat hunt over doing what was best for the team.
 

Fishy1

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Not that I care that much, but it will be interesting to see how history remembers Westbrook as a player. Clearly some eye-popping numbers, and for almost all of his career he was an absolute max effort guy. But there's something way off about him, and it's not just his shot. How he has never really won anything, I'll never know. Usually when you have a guy with real talent (and he does have real talent) and puts in that kind of effort, and who's played with some other great players, you get excellent results.

I mean, even on this Laker team, as third banana, he's averaging 18.3 points, 7.8 rebounds, and 7.6 assists. The basic numbers seem fine for a #3 guy on a team. But I don't know. His whole is not equal to the sum of his parts, I don't think. Weird.
I think the "basic numbers" are lying to you. Among guys taking more than 13 shots a game, he's bottom three in TS%: 50%. That's TS% on the far right. (Clumping together top and bottom for you below).

49266
49265


He's a terrible fit and a terrible shooter. He's got a worse career 3pt% than Marcus Smart, he's a 66% FT throw shooter these days. He's still a good passer, but he insists on taking sixteen shots a game. I haven't watched much Laker's footage, but I'm guessing he's not a very good defender anymore.

What's that leave? A good passer, but that team doesn't really need that very much since Lebron already offers that and should have the ball in his hands. They'd have been better off with Schroder at 5million per and resigning Caruso, and moving off Kuzma, Harrell and Caldwell-Pope some other way.

EDIT: Gotta agree with Cellar-Door, too. A max effort guy but not one who ever adjusted to the era or made the strides he needed to become an elite shooter in an era filled with efficient players. (Also, I know everyone knows this, but holy shit Jokic is on another level this year)
 

PedroKsBambino

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I agree he's complicated. The simplest description for me is Westbrook is a good stats/bad team guy. He raises your floor because for all his flaws he creates, he plays really really hard, and he does a lot of good things. But he has real gaps in his game and he has never been able to figure out how to be a winning player---to adjust to his environment or the defense.

He's neither truly as good as his stats nor as bad as I think some of his rep---this guy isn't a cancer or a 'loser' but he also has never shown he's a championship-level starter.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I think the "basic numbers" are lying to you. Among guys taking more than 13 shots a game, he's bottom three in TS%: 50%. That's TS% on the far right. (Clumping together top and bottom for you below).
I agree with this. RWB's career will be a testament to math working. There are 90-100 possessions in an average NBA game (could be less based on pace of play). Average margin of victory is like 5 buckets are so. So a team will be hard pressed to consistently win when one player is taking 5 or so possessions a game and throwing them away, whether on bad shots or TOs.

It's amazing to me that no one could ever get RWB to understand this.
 

Kliq

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As this site's foremorest Russell Westbrook defender, I think what PedroKs said is pretty accurate. Westbrook, in his current form, is a floor-raiser not a ceiling-raiser. He can do a lot of things for you if you are a team with limited options and can be a positive force for a lackluster team due to his effort and energy. He's miscast on this Laker team because he is expected to be a ceiling-raiser, but he isn't that kind of player. At one point in his career, like when he was paired with Durant, he probably was, but ever since he was given license to basically do whatever he wanted post-Durant, he has morphed into a player who can only be effective when he has the ball in his hands.

Him on the Lakers is a disaster because LeBron rightfully has the ball a ton, and Westbrook just doesn't bring anything to the court from an off-ball perspective. He needs to have the ball and he needs to be running in transition. The Lakers are full of old guys who are not going to exactly be dynamic running the floor. One of the reasons he found success in Washington was because they just had a bunch of younger guys who would run in transition with him.

I don't think Westbrook is necessarily a terrible player, but he has a very specific skill set and he needs to be on a very specific team for him to look like a good player, and the Lakers are the complete opposite.
 

BigSoxFan

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As this site's foremorest Russell Westbrook defender, I think what PedroKs said is pretty accurate. Westbrook, in his current form, is a floor-raiser not a ceiling-raiser. He can do a lot of things for you if you are a team with limited options and can be a positive force for a lackluster team due to his effort and energy. He's miscast on this Laker team because he is expected to be a ceiling-raiser, but he isn't that kind of player. At one point in his career, like when he was paired with Durant, he probably was, but ever since he was given license to basically do whatever he wanted post-Durant, he has morphed into a player who can only be effective when he has the ball in his hands.

Him on the Lakers is a disaster because LeBron rightfully has the ball a ton, and Westbrook just doesn't bring anything to the court from an off-ball perspective. He needs to have the ball and he needs to be running in transition. The Lakers are full of old guys who are not going to exactly be dynamic running the floor. One of the reasons he found success in Washington was because they just had a bunch of younger guys who would run in transition with him.

I don't think Westbrook is necessarily a terrible player, but he has a very specific skill set and he needs to be on a very specific team for him to look like a good player, and the Lakers are the complete opposite.
I’ve always kind of wondered how Westbrook would look on a Simmons-less Philly team. Maybe poorly at this stage.
 

Cellar-Door

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I’ve always kind of wondered how Westbrook would look on a Simmons-less Philly team. Maybe poorly at this stage.
like Simmons, except instead of not taking 3s and letting other guys shoot, he'd take them and miss them. Also, he's roughly 100x worse on D.

Ben Simmons is a better player than Westbrook and has been for a while.
 

BigSoxFan

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like Simmons, except instead of not taking 3s and letting other guys shoot, he'd take them and miss them. Also, he's roughly 100x worse on D.

Ben Simmons is a better player than Westbrook and has been for a while.
My post wasn’t about comparing the 2. But trying to think of a possible fit for a guy who just doesn’t fit well with practically any team at this point.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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As this site's foremorest Russell Westbrook defender, I think what PedroKs said is pretty accurate. Westbrook, in his current form, is a floor-raiser not a ceiling-raiser.
Not that I disagree with anything you said, but in today's NBA, what good is a floor-raiser who isn't a ceiling raiser? I watched some of the 'Zards last year and ok, maybe RWB was key 8n getting them into the play-in game where they got blown out by the Cs. How did that help the franchise?
 

Kliq

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I’ve always kind of wondered how Westbrook would look on a Simmons-less Philly team. Maybe poorly at this stage.
Yeah it would be interesting. He isn't afraid to play basketball which puts him ahead of Simmons at the moment. He would obviously be an improvement offensively; he would help players like Thybulle contribute more on offense because they'd be willing to run in transition and finish fast breaks that Westbrook would start, similar to how Rui Hachimura played well when Westbrook was in Washington. He doesn't provide any spacing; but at the same time he would give the Sixers more of a natural playmaker at PG, someone who can handle the ball and slash-and-kick in the half-court, something Philly could really use absent Simmons and when Embiid sits. Philly is currently 14th in Offensive Rating and 10th in Defensive Rating; Westbrook hurts you defensively, but I could see him helping the offense just enough to make it worthwhile.

Looking across the NBA, I think Denver would be an interesting team with Westbrook. His defense would again be a problem, but it would interesting to see if he could infuse some temp to their offense. Jokic grabbing a board, hitting Westbrook with an outlet pass, and then Barton/Gordon/Hyland/Nnaji running the floor could have a lot of potential.

Not that I disagree with anything you said, but in today's NBA, what good is a floor-raiser who isn't a ceiling raiser? I watched some of the 'Zards last year and ok, maybe RWB was key 8n getting them into the play-in game where they got blown out by the Cs. How did that help the franchise?
I totally get what you are saying in the sense there is no value in being mediocre in the NBA. The two ways I would say it helped the franchise were:

1. Fans were actually excited for a little while that the team looked good and were trying to win basketball games. Obviously that is ignoring the big picture to an extent but I wouldn't discount that.

2. Westbrook padded his stats enough and played well enough that it convinced another team to trade for him and give up some real assets in the process. It certainly helped the franchise because it finally allowed them to move past the John Wall mistake. Things actually unfolded quite nicely for Washington; they had the terrible, franchise-killing Wall contract. They swapped it for another, equally as hefty contract in Westbrook. Then they rehabilitated Westbrook to such a degree that they both got some entertaining weeks of basketball to show fans they were trying to win, and also were able to sell Westbrook off to another team, getting at worst, neutral assets in return and freeing them of any further ramifications from the Wall contract.
 

Cellar-Door

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Was watching this live and couldn't believe it.

When Dennis Smith Jr. is logging 45 minutes a night for the tanking Blazers, now you know why.
As dumb as that play was... he played well last night.

22 minutes, 7 points on 3-5 from the floor, 11 assists, 2 REB, 6 STL and only 3 TOV.

He's a good defender, his offense isn't good, but there are some indications of an NBA bench PG there.
 

radsoxfan

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On offense. On D he was a lazy freelancer off-ball starting a few years into his career just like Rondo.

Westbrook is weird. He was one of the best athletes in the history of the game, he was aggressive and fearless. He also couldn't shoot, never improved, and refused to adjust to that weakness. On both ends he had a strong tendancy to stat hunt over doing what was best for the team.
Yeah, the strangest thing is that he was never able to turn his elite athleticism/max effort game into anything more than average defense (and it was often much worse than that).

He had the skillset to be a terror on D but for whatever reason (poor instincts, effort, coaching, whatever) he just never was particularly useful on that end of the court.
 

Devizier

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Westbrook was a positive asset as recently as last year. He's a terrible fit on the Lakers, which pretty much everyone on this board predicted, and he's 33, so it's hard to imagine that there's a lot of room to improve at this point. But it's not like the guy has been trash. His limitations have been real and the chucking really has had a negative impact on his overall production, but he was a key player on some major contenders in OKC and it's not hard to imagine him having earned at least one ring if OKC got past GS in 2016.
 

radsoxfan

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As dumb as that play was... he played well last night.

22 minutes, 7 points on 3-5 from the floor, 11 assists, 2 REB, 6 STL and only 3 TOV.

He's a good defender, his offense isn't good, but there are some indications of an NBA bench PG there.
The perfect tanker.

Some NBA skills and occasional decent games mixed with moronic plays that will prevent you from winning (unless you are playing this putrid Laker team).
 

Cellar-Door

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Westbrook was a positive asset as recently as last year. He's a terrible fit on the Lakers, which pretty much everyone on this board predicted, and he's 33, so it's hard to imagine that there's a lot of room to improve at this point. But it's not like the guy has been trash. His limitations have been real and the chucking really has had a negative impact on his overall production, but he was a key player on some major contenders in OKC and it's not hard to imagine him having earned at least one ring if OKC got past GS in 2016.
The thing about Westbrook isn't that he's bad, it's that he's not a $44M player, and he's not a #1 or even #2 option... but he thinks he is.
If you pay Westbrook $44M your team's ceiling is likely very low (unless you go full GS and pay a ton of tax), because he's a very inefficient use of limited resources.
 

Devizier

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The thing about Westbrook isn't that he's bad, it's that he's not a $44M player, and he's not a #1 or even #2 option... but he thinks he is.
If you pay Westbrook $44M your team's ceiling is likely very low (unless you go full GS and pay a ton of tax), because he's a very inefficient use of limited resources.
Well, yeah. He was traded for John Wall with good reason.
 

Sam Ray Not

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It’s the CP3-for-Westbrook trade that gets more mind-blowing by the day. Even *straight up* it would have been a shockingly bad deal for the Rockets. That Morey threw in two first round picks *and* two first round pick swaps to make it happen has to put it up there with the absolute worst trades in NBA history. Particularly if CP3 can get the Suns over the hump this year.
 

cheech13

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Lakers are pretty much locked into the play-in game, especially with Portland and Sacramento waving the white flag. And I don't see this team going all out to pass Denver in the standings.
Sacramento waived the white flag? They just traded a future all-star to chase the playoffs this year. They’ll fail, of course, but they definitely pushed all their chips in.
 

bigq

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Nets lost their 10th in a row tonight. Not sure when KD or Ben Simmons will be back with the team. It would be a real shame if Kyrie and team continue their downward spiral and dig a hole too deep for them to climb out of.
 

BigSoxFan

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Nets lost their 10th in a row tonight. Not sure when KD or Ben Simmons will be back with the team. It would be a real shame if Kyrie and team continue their downward spiral and dig a hole too deep for them to climb out of.
You just hate to see it. Rockets must be loving it. Nets pick is currently #16, which is way higher than expected in the first year.
 

Euclis20

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radsoxfan

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Nothing gets a national TV crew more excited than an unknown white dude off the bench doing surprisingly non-shitty things.

Having said that... nice quarter from Reaves so far.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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Apparently Harden didn’t report for his physical in time, so Curry and Drummond couldn’t play for the Nets tonight, and they lost again. Hilarious
 

Just a bit outside

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Nuggets hang on to beat the Raptors, Jokic with a TL-esque block to save the game:

View: https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1492692034137702406?s=20&t=SfCPBUGtFjO80Ex5II77aQ


The Celtics now have the longest winning streak in the league at 7 games (Memphis and Utah both have 5 game streaks going), but frustratingly enough are still in line for the play in game. Technically tied with Toronto, but they are a few percentage points ahead.
Jokic missed two free throws with 12 seconds left that would have made it a 3 point game. Nice recovery.
 

Euclis20

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I know the stats don't remotely bear this out, but it seems like every time I see Anthony Davis I'm struck by the notion that he's a gigantic fraud. Lebron is 37 and clearly past his prime, Westbrook is 33 and is barely useful. Davis is 28, and the Warriors didn't even both having a big on the floor down the stretch. He should be carrying them right now, but he's absolutely not. By my count the Lakers are 16-20 when he plays, most of which were with Lebron. Maybe he's one of those guys who peaked young and injuries have aged him faster than you'd expect, but he's not getting nearly enough criticism for how the Lakers' season has gone.
 

BigSoxFan

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I know the stats don't remotely bear this out, but it seems like every time I see Anthony Davis I'm struck by the notion that he's a gigantic fraud. Lebron is 37 and clearly past his prime, Westbrook is 33 and is barely useful. Davis is 28, and the Warriors didn't even both having a big on the floor down the stretch. He should be carrying them right now, but he's absolutely not. By my count the Lakers are 16-20 when he plays, most of which were with Lebron. Maybe he's one of those guys who peaked young and injuries have aged him faster than you'd expect, but he's not getting nearly enough criticism for how the Lakers' season has gone.
He has been very inconsistent and passive at times this year. In his last 3 games, he’s taken only 34 shots. Prior to that, he had a really good 5 or 6 game stretch of dominance where he was doing it all. LeBron is still clearly the alpha here.
 

Kliq

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There was a time in New Orleans where he looked like he was on his way to being a truly dominant, consistently Top 5 NBA Player; someone who could be one of the 20 best NBA Players of all-time. He came into the league with tremendous hype; a dominant season in college, followed by an Olympic run. Everything about him screamed next super-duper star. But he has never been that player; he puts up good numbers but he's inconsistent and doesn't seemed wired like the kind of player who is the best player on multiple championship teams.

I will say that the original idea for the Lakers was that as LeBron got older, Davis would step in and be the fulcrum for the Lakers as he is in his prime, as @Euclis20 points out. But to give Davis a bit of an excuse, that really isn't the case. LeBron is still the dominant player, the team was built by GM LeBron and designed around him with old players that LeBron thinks are still useful guys. LeBron is the dominant ball-handler, plays the most minutes and controls the game. It's hard for Davis to assume the mantle when LeBron clearly has no interest in relinquishing it.

LeBron's role on the Lakers is pretty fascinating. Statistically, he's having an awesome season considering his age, and it's hard to look at his numbers and think that he is in anyway responsible for the Lakers being bad this season. At the same time, it's a team designed basically so LeBron will have to do it all and at this stage of his career "LeBron doing it all" isn't necessarily as conducive to winning as it once was.
 

benhogan

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There was a time in New Orleans where he looked like he was on his way to being a truly dominant, consistently Top 5 NBA Player; someone who could be one of the 20 best NBA Players of all-time. He came into the league with tremendous hype; a dominant season in college, followed by an Olympic run. Everything about him screamed next super-duper star. But he has never been that player; he puts up good numbers but he's inconsistent and doesn't seemed wired like the kind of player who is the best player on multiple championship teams.

I will say that the original idea for the Lakers was that as LeBron got older, Davis would step in and be the fulcrum for the Lakers as he is in his prime, as @Euclis20 points out. But to give Davis a bit of an excuse, that really isn't the case. LeBron is still the dominant player, the team was built by GM LeBron and designed around him with old players that LeBron thinks are still useful guys. LeBron is the dominant ball-handler, plays the most minutes and controls the game. It's hard for Davis to assume the mantle when LeBron clearly has no interest in relinquishing it.

LeBron's role on the Lakers is pretty fascinating. Statistically, he's having an awesome season considering his age, and it's hard to look at his numbers and think that he is in anyway responsible for the Lakers being bad this season. At the same time, it's a team designed basically so LeBron will have to do it all and at this stage of his career "LeBron doing it all" isn't necessarily as conducive to winning as it once was.
Bron & AD should have surrounded themselves with elite shooting like Monk & defenders like Caruso...last summer was one of the worst GMing jobs in a long time
 

Sam Ray Not

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Overshadowed by the stirring return of “Game 6 Klay” was Jon Kuminga getting his second straight start opposite LeBron/AD and putting up 18 points on 10 fga with 9 rebounds in 25 minutes.

On the season (631 minutes) he’s now averaging 20.1 pts / 7.2 reb per 36 on .584 true shooting — highest scoring efficiency by far among his fellow lotto picks, at the highest scoring volume. To compare the three nominal ROY frontrunners:

Mobley 15.6 pts per 36 on .546 ts
Barnes 14.8 on .542 ts
Cunningham 17.8 on .494 ts

Kuminga is also over a year younger than all three.

His progression on both ends over the last couple months has been so impressive that Kerr postgame declared him part of the playoff rotation.

Eye candy for good measure…

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/NBA/status/1492677964928110596
 

HomeRunBaker

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The player Boston picked over the much-discussed Max Strus, Javonte Green, has been really solid for the Bulls, who lead the Eastern Conference:

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401360662

Twenty-three points last nite.
For as bad of a basketball player Green was here he’s exactly the type of young athletic freak who has the upside to make it worth keeping a guy like that around. It’s always much easier to learn how to shoot and understand the nuances of the NBA than it is to learn how to be a freakish and long athlete.
 

Kliq

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Overshadowed by the stirring return of “Game 6 Klay” was Jon Kuminga getting his second straight start opposite LeBron/AD and putting up 18 points on 10 fga with 9 rebounds in 25 minutes.

On the season (631 minutes) he’s now averaging 20.1 pts / 7.2 reb per 36 on .584 true shooting — highest scoring efficiency by far among his fellow lotto picks, at the highest scoring volume. To compare the three nominal ROY frontrunners:

Mobley 15.6 pts per 36 on .546 ts
Barnes 14.8 on .542 ts
Cunningham 17.8 on .494 ts

Kuminga is also over a year younger than all three.

His progression on both ends over the last couple months has been so impressive that Kerr postgame declared him part of the playoff rotation.

Eye candy for good measure…

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/NBA/status/1492677964928110596
The Dubs are way better than they were last year, but its hard to look at Kuminga and wonder what went wrong with Wiseman last year. Kuminga just dives to the rim and cleans up, I wonder what Wiseman would look like in that role this year?
 

BigSoxFan

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The Dubs are way better than they were last year, but its hard to look at Kuminga and wonder what went wrong with Wiseman last year. Kuminga just dives to the rim and cleans up, I wonder what Wiseman would look like in that role this year?
Wiseman is still young and coming back off a meniscus tear so who knows how his career turns out but really hard to wonder what could have been if they had gone Melo over him.

Dray
Wiggins
Klay
Melo
Curry

with Kuminga, Poole, Looney as the key guys off the bench would have been insanely fun to watch.