2021-2022 NBA Game Thread!

Cellar-Door

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Rocky Rubio looks like he might have torn his ACL again, shame, he was playing great for CLE
 

Kliq

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Incredibly impressive first half from Denver against GS. Dominant on both ends.
 

benhogan

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I loved Fox earlier in his career but am questioning his commitment. He’s gotten super lazy defensively, which could simply be a product of playing on a bad team, but I’m more concerned with his conditioning. He’s gained weight and is more soft/puffy than he’s ever been and this correlated with his contract. He’s still real good but you have to have some buyer beware to a degree.
Fox is a hot mess tonight. He's got the body of a spider. Major buyer beware

as bad as the Celtics need a ballhandler/playmaker I'd stay away

On the other hand, Haliburton looks great. PBS should offer a bundle for him
 

Kliq

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Dubs hold 'em to 29 in the second half, but can't do enough on O. Nuggets eke it out at the buzzer.
Look, there is only so much juice you can squeeze out of a backcourt of Austin Rivers and Facundo Campazzo. I know he coughed the ball up 8 times tonight, but this is really an incredible season from Jokic. His supporting cast is so bad and yet Denver is right in the playoff hunt.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Look, there is only so much juice you can squeeze out of a backcourt of Austin Rivers and Facundo Campazzo. I know he coughed the ball up 8 times tonight, but this is really an incredible season from Jokic. His supporting cast is so bad and yet Denver is right in the playoff hunt.
For sure — what he's been doing with that hollowed out supporting cast is amazing.

Still a pretty impressive feat to hold an NBA team to 29 in a half, especially without Draymond.

Less impressed by the 15 bricked FTs, and by Steph generally looking like he had drunk too much Xmas egg nog in the first half. His yank of Austin Rivers in the 4th may have been the one offensive highlight of the game...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lNPO5MaHx4
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I know all teams have had some level of Covid issues but without looking I recal that during the Cavs 5-game losing streak they were pretty decimated too. When this team has been healthy they have been a juggernaut. I mean I liked theit offseason moves more than most but damn this is a group who just naturally meshed well together.
It's funny because speaking of not really having any shooting - aside from Garland at 38%, with respect to 3P%, Mobley and Rubo are at 34%, Allen is 16.7%, Markkanen is at 31.2%, Okoro is at 30%, and Rubio is at 34%. While Osman and Love can shoot off the bench, the Cavs really lack for shooting.

But they play really good and consistent defense. If only the Cs could get to that point.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It's funny because speaking of not really having any shooting - aside from Garland at 38%, with respect to 3P%, Mobley and Rubo are at 34%, Allen is 16.7%, Markkanen is at 31.2%, Okoro is at 30%, and Rubio is at 34%. While Osman and Love can shoot off the bench, the Cavs really lack for shooting.

But they play really good and consistent defense. If only the Cs could get to that point.
The Cavs have two of the longest and most active defenders starting at the 4 and 5 to anchor that defense……it isn’t fair to expect us to match that without the accompanying personnel. Rubio, pre-ACL, was a great switchable defender on the perimeter. It will be interesting to see where they go next without Sexton and Rubio.
 

benhogan

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It's funny because speaking of not really having any shooting - aside from Garland at 38%, with respect to 3P%, Mobley and Rubo are at 34%, Allen is 16.7%, Markkanen is at 31.2%, Okoro is at 30%, and Rubio is at 34%. While Osman and Love can shoot off the bench, the Cavs really lack for shooting.

But they play really good and consistent defense. If only the Cs could get to that point.
Cleveland has a much better defense than the C's, but they also have shot better from 3

Team 3pt% NBA rank:
Cavs 11th
Celtics 22nd

Simply put, if you can't hit 3s at above average, you are destined to be .500 or below
 

Kliq

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The Cavs have two of the longest and most active defenders starting at the 4 and 5 to anchor that defense……it isn’t fair to expect us to match that without the accompanying personnel. Rubio, pre-ACL, was a great switchable defender on the perimeter. It will be interesting to see where they go next without Sexton and Rubio.
Yeah, my first thought for Cleveland losing Rubio is that with his 6'9" wingspan, you can play him with a player like Garland and Rubio has the length to combat most wings. This is already a team that is weak on wing-depth, so losing Rubio really hurts them on the defensive end.
 

benhogan

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Yeah, my first thought for Cleveland losing Rubio is that with his 6'9" wingspan, you can play him with a player like Garland and Rubio has the length to combat most wings. This is already a team that is weak on wing-depth, so losing Rubio really hurts them on the defensive end.
they could have potential interest in DS, JRich, Langford

wonder what their plans are with Sexton done for the season?
 

HomeRunBaker

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they could have potential interest in DS, JRich, Langford

wonder what their plans are with Sexton done for the season?
Good catch on the Schroder interest. This seems like an ideal landing spot if we decide to tank the season. It shouldn’t be difficult to match up the numbers and maybe get a future protected low #1 in the process.
 

Kliq

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they could have potential interest in DS, JRich, Langford

wonder what their plans are with Sexton done for the season?
I don't see Schroder as a great fit in Cleveland. He is long for a PG, but he can't shoot and he's not a good defender. He'd give them more offense and that is it. Richardson I could see being a much better fit since he can shoot a bit and helps their wing depth. Romeo...I just don't see teams giving up a lot for him to the point the Cs are better off just sitting on him for now, unless he is part of a bigger package.

I'm not sure if Cleveland is really going to make any big moves at the trade deadline. I think you look at your young core and consider this season a success if you make the playoffs, not sure they are going to try and make some big moves at the deadline and go all-in this year.
 

benhogan

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I don't see Schroder as a great fit in Cleveland. He is long for a PG, but he can't shoot and he's not a good defender. He'd give them more offense and that is it. Richardson I could see being a much better fit since he can shoot a bit and helps their wing depth. Romeo...I just don't see teams giving up a lot for him to the point the Cs are better off just sitting on him for now, unless he is part of a bigger package.

I'm not sure if Cleveland is really going to make any big moves at the trade deadline. I think you look at your young core and consider this season a success if you make the playoffs, not sure they are going to try and make some big moves at the deadline and go all-in this year.
Rubio was a big part of what they were doing

DS is dirt cheap, immediately adds legitimate veteran scoring punch, he'd be the #2 or 3 scoring option

offering a lottery-protected 1st is a no-brainer for the Cavs.
(late firsts aren't worth a whole lot in my book when you are finally decent)
 

128

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Good catch on the Schroder interest. This seems like an ideal landing spot if we decide to tank the season. It shouldn’t be difficult to match up the numbers and maybe get a future protected low #1 in the process.
Your point is well-taken, but would moving Schroder really "tank the season"? How many more games are the C's likely to win with Schroder and not Pritchard in that role?
 

Kliq

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Rubio was a big part of what they were doing

DS is dirt cheap, immediately adds legitimate veteran scoring punch, he'd be the #2 or 3 scoring option

offering a lottery-protected 1st is a no-brainer for the Cavs.
(late firsts aren't worth a whole lot in my book when you are finally decent)
Rubio and Schroder are totally different players though. Rubio is a more traditional pass-first PG and a good defender. Schroder is a bench-scorer that can carry offense at times when he gets going. Schroder as a replacement for Sexton makes more sense than a replacement for Rubio. I think the Celtics will get a better offer for Schroder for a team that probably feels like they are closer to the title but need another scorer.
 

benhogan

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Rubio and Schroder are totally different players though. Rubio is a more traditional pass-first PG and a good defender. Schroder is a bench-scorer that can carry offense at times when he gets going. Schroder as a replacement for Sexton makes more sense than a replacement for Rubio. I think the Celtics will get a better offer for Schroder for a team that probably feels like they are closer to the title but need another scorer.
Agreed, every contender could use a 16ppg, veteran ballhandler that won't blow up their cap and can be matched with end of bench jetsam/flotsam (+ a protected 1st) or blocked youngsters

I know if the tables were turned and the Celtics were 20-14 they'd look to add a 16ppg scorer for picks or RL/AN
 

Kliq

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Agreed, every contender could use a 16ppg, veteran ballhandler that won't blow up their cap and can be matched with end of bench jetsam/flotsam (+ a protected 1st) or blocked youngsters

I know if the tables were turned and the Celtics were 20-14 they'd look to add a 16ppg scorer for picks or RL/AN
But the Celtics probably feel like they are closer to contention (and with a smaller window) than the Cavs. I think the Celtics will ultimately to get more for Schroder than what the Cavs are willing to offer; from a team that probably feels like it's closer to the title this year, or is in a more desperate "win-now" situation.
 

benhogan

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But the Celtics probably feel like they are closer to contention (and with a smaller window) than the Cavs. I think the Celtics will ultimately to get more for Schroder than what the Cavs are willing to offer; from a team that probably feels like it's closer to the title this year, or is in a more desperate "win-now" situation.
nothing really happens until Feb so Brad & Co will have ~ another 20 games to review the situation.

Schroder was an opportunistic signing and is not part of their LT planning. I'll be shocked if they don't trade him if they continue to play ~ .500 ball
 

128

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Schroder was an opportunistic signing and is not part of their LT planning. I'll be shocked if they don't trade him if they continue to play ~ .500 ball
Year, the decision gets complicated only if the C's catch fire, start winning a ton of games and look like they could make a postseason run. At this point, that scenario seems highly unlikely.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Your point is well-taken, but would moving Schroder really "tank the season"? How many more games are the C's likely to win with Schroder and not Pritchard in that role?
The message of losing one of your most crucial players while your competitors are adding pieces, including one of yours, would be clear to the team.

It isn’t only downgrading the Schroder to Pritchard position but it is also downgrading the bench in going from PP to whoever gets those minites. When you move a starter/big minute guy the effect is also felt on the bench as you downgrade their as well……while other teams are upgrading.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Rubio and Schroder are totally different players though. Rubio is a more traditional pass-first PG and a good defender. Schroder is a bench-scorer that can carry offense at times when he gets going. Schroder as a replacement for Sexton makes more sense than a replacement for Rubio. I think the Celtics will get a better offer for Schroder for a team that probably feels like they are closer to the title but need another scorer.
Sure they have different skill sets but you need a quality player to replace the hole left by Rubio. The Sexton role really has just opened the door to more Garland which is a good thing as he is the superior player.
 

128

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The message of losing one of your most crucial players while your competitors are adding pieces, including one of yours, would be clear to the team.

It isn’t only downgrading the Schroder to Pritchard position but it is also downgrading the bench in going from PP to whoever gets those minites. When you move a starter/big minute guy the effect is also felt on the bench as you downgrade their as well……while other teams are upgrading.
Wouldn't that depend in large part on who then filled the PP role? I mean, everything you say makes perfect sense in theory, but the reality is, the C's haven't been very good with Schroder. Now, if they're winning with him, everything changes.

Morever, Schroder's position on the team is unusual, given that there's probably no realistic scenario under which the C's retain him for 2022-23. I would assume Tatum and Brown understand that, too.
 

cheech13

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But the Celtics probably feel like they are closer to contention (and with a smaller window) than the Cavs. I think the Celtics will ultimately to get more for Schroder than what the Cavs are willing to offer; from a team that probably feels like it's closer to the title this year, or is in a more desperate "win-now" situation.
If the Celtics think they are closer to contention than the Cavs they are delusional.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Wouldn't that depend in large part on who then filled the PP role? I mean, everything you say makes perfect sense in theory, but the reality is, the C's haven't been very good with Schroder. Now, if they're winning with him, everything changes.

Morever, Schroder's position on the team is unusual, given that there's probably no realistic scenario under which the C's retain him for 2022-23. I would assume Tatum and Brown understand that, too.
It’s similar to the Rozier position 3 years ago where the player could be more valuable in making a run this year rather playing an inferior guy (was it Wanamaker?) while trying to make a playoff run over a limited value asset in the future. We’d obv have to turn the corner but the talent is here to win a playoff series and become interesting.
 

Kliq

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If the Celtics think they are closer to contention than the Cavs they are delusional.
The Celtics absolutely think they are closer to contention than the Cavs. The Cavs so far have clearly been the better team this season, but preseason expectations still matter and the Celtics are looking at a team that has handed out big contracts to two cornerstone players, and probably expected to finish in the Top 4 of the East this season. They may pack it in this season if things don't turn around, but I'm certain they feel they are relatively close to their title window.

The Cavs on the other hand are still in the rebuilding process and are looking to have their first winning season since LeBron left; in fact, with three more wins they will officially have the most wins in a single-season since LeBron was on the team. They are riding high now thanks to a fast start, but if I'm Altman, I'm under no real pressure to win anything right now and merely making the playoffs will be seen as a big success. Their best players are 22, 20 and 23 respectively, and they have a rookie head coach. I don't think they see their title window even open right now; it's all about the future and IDK if they give up a pick for a rental on Schroder.
 

128

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It’s similar to the Rozier position 3 years ago where the player could be more valuable in making a run this year rather playing an inferior guy (was it Wanamaker?) while trying to make a playoff run over a limited value asset in the future. We’d obv have to turn the corner but the talent is here to win a playoff series and become interesting.
If that's going to happen, the C's need to get rolling soon. Let's hope it does.
 

HomeRunBaker

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If that's going to happen, the C's need to get rolling soon. Let's hope it does.
Yeah exactly. Decisions don’t need to be made today but of course Brad is preparing for all scenarios as are other GM’s when guaging who will and won’t be available in February.
 

cheech13

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The Celtics absolutely think they are closer to contention than the Cavs. The Cavs so far have clearly been the better team this season, but preseason expectations still matter and the Celtics are looking at a team that has handed out big contracts to two cornerstone players, and probably expected to finish in the Top 4 of the East this season. They may pack it in this season if things don't turn around, but I'm certain they feel they are relatively close to their title window.
Nobody should have had them in their top 4. They were mediocre last year and did nothing to improve in the off-season. They changed the GM, coach and supporting cast and they are still a borderline playoff team. The sooner the organization realizes what they are and how far they are from contention the better.
 

128

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Rozier with 35 tonite in Charlotte's win over the dreadful Pacers.
 

jon abbey

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NY played ten guys tonight in a 94-85 comeback win against DET, they have everyone back from Covid and just Fournier/Noel out so most of their ideal rotation.

5 starters: 104 combined minutes with a collective -116 +/-.

5 bench guys: 136 combined minutes with a collective +161 +/-.
 

Cellar-Door

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NY played ten guys tonight in a 94-85 comeback win against DET, they have everyone back from Covid and just Fournier/Noel out so most of their ideal rotation.

5 starters: 104 combined minutes with a collective -116 +/-.

5 bench guys: 136 combined minutes with a collective +161 +/-.
DET only had 9 guys, including 1 starter and only 3 of their top 12 rotation guys,, then one of those 3 (their backup PG) got hurt after 13 minutes. The Knicks were truly facing a team that was almost all 10-day guys and one that basically played 5 deep most of the game
 

the moops

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As a Celtics fan, I would be irate if we gave up a lottery protected first for 1/2 season of Dennis Shroder. Likewise, if I were a CLE fan I would be equally mad.

We are not going to get a first round pick for a guy who was freely available to just about every team and is not a difference maker nor is he having an outrageous season.
 

BigSoxFan

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As a Celtics fan, I would be irate if we gave up a lottery protected first for 1/2 season of Dennis Shroder. Likewise, if I were a CLE fan I would be equally mad.

We are not going to get a first round pick for a guy who was freely available to just about every team and is not a difference maker nor is he having an outrageous season.
I think the 2021 trade deadline comps of Hill, Rondo, Delon Wright, etc. probably support this conclusion. Brad deserves a statue if he gets a future protected 1st for Schroder, a guy every GM knows he can’t keep beyond this year.

I’d still take whatever the best possible deal is since we’re going nowhere this year and those 2nd’s could be useful for executing minor future trades.
 

the moops

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And looking at laast years trades, it seems that non-difference makers in last years of their deal don't net all that much

Derrick Rose - 2021 2nd round pick and the complete bust Smith Jr
Trevor Ariza - 2027 2nd round pick
George Hill - two 2nd round picks
Delon Wright - two 2nds
Terence Davis - 2021 2nd
Evan Fournier - two 2nds
Victor Oladipo - 2022 pick swap
 

jon abbey

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DET only had 9 guys, including 1 starter and only 3 of their top 12 rotation guys,, then one of those 3 (their backup PG) got hurt after 13 minutes. The Knicks were truly facing a team that was almost all 10-day guys and one that basically played 5 deep most of the game
OK, not sure of your point here, except it makes the awful results from the Knicks starters look even worse. My point was just to point out the crazy +/- numbers, turns out they were historically extreme.

View: https://twitter.com/statsbystats/status/1476435334665752576?s=12
 

cheech13

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As a Celtics fan, I would be irate if we gave up a lottery protected first for 1/2 season of Dennis Shroder. Likewise, if I were a CLE fan I would be equally mad.

We are not going to get a first round pick for a guy who was freely available to just about every team and is not a difference maker nor is he having an outrageous season.
Schroeder is the type of player that gets traded every deadline for 1-2 2nd rounders. Maybe if there was a top 3 team that desperately needed a PG you could squeeze a late first but I don’t see it.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Schroeder is the type of player that gets traded every deadline for 1-2 2nd rounders. Maybe if there was a top 3 team that desperately needed a PG you could squeeze a late first but I don’t see it.
The other thing about Schroder that is being ignored is that while its a SSS, he isn't having a good season in any regard. I don't doubt that if the C's made him available that there would be interest but its hard to see anyone in the NBA paying up for ~1/2 of a bad Dennis Schroder season.
 

Cellar-Door

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Cesar Crespo

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Saddiq Bey has come back to earth as a shooter this season. He was 3 for 13 on 3-pointers last nite and is shooting 31 percent from long range overall.
Last 7 games: 39.1 mpg, .451/.377/.938, 24.3 points, 7.4 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1.9 TO. 23/61 from 3. 45/48 from the line. In his first 26 games this year, he was 36/49. He's been getting to the line a lot lately.

It's covid season and the Pistons are still losing, but that has to be a very encouraging sign if you're a Pistons fan. Cade's been playing well, though he's been out due to Covid. Frank Jackson and Hamdiou have been playing well recently, too.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, Bey and Diallo both looked great last night, they had 50 points combined in the first three quarters.
 

benhogan

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Last 7 games: 39.1 mpg, .451/.377/.938, 24.3 points, 7.4 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1.9 TO. 23/61 from 3. 45/48 from the line. In his first 26 games this year, he was 36/49. He's been getting to the line a lot lately.

It's covid season and the Pistons are still losing, but that has to be a very encouraging sign if you're a Pistons fan. Cade's been playing well, though he's been out due to Covid. Frank Jackson and Hamdiou have been playing well recently, too.
Saddiq Bey shot 38% from 3 last season (175/460) & 84.4% at the FT line

that shooting % over the last 7 games isn't really shocking
 

terrynever

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76ers too sharp for Nets tonight, in Brooklyn. Maxey with 25 points, three big hoops during close out time late, Embiid with 34. Durant and Harden with 33 each. Embiid taunted Durant after his final hoop. Seemed more like a pro wrestling feud than any hard feelings.
76ers sure look a lot better late in games now without Simmons standing in a corner on offense. They are not a better team for 48 minutes without Ben but in close out time, they are.
 

Kliq

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MY MAN!! Finally getting the credit he deserves. First the defensive play and then the old school running jumper for the Win!

View: https://twitter.com/worldwidewob/status/1477044907604787200?s=21
I will direct everyone to my post from March 10, 2017:

Well at least he isn't out because Pop didn't want to show his hand during the regular season.

DeRozan is really, really good. Fuck what the advanced metrics say; I watch the games.