2020 Tompa Bay: Tom Tom Club

rodderick

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Their D is weird. They've had weeks where they've looked great. They held the Packers - the #1 scoring offense - to 10 points and just 201 yards of total offense, both their worst totals of the season. Overall they finished 8th in scoring D and 6th in yardage D, and they had the best run D in the league by most measures. But they've had weeks where they've looked awful. Heinicke was carving them up last night.
Pass defense seems really suspect when they can't generate pressure. Bowles seems content to sit in soft zones all day long and that secondary isn't great. Devin White coming back should help them with some blitz packages.
 

BaseballJones

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Their D is weird. They've had weeks where they've looked great. They held the Packers - the #1 scoring offense - to 10 points and just 201 yards of total offense, both their worst totals of the season. Overall they finished 8th in scoring D and 6th in yardage D, and they had the best run D in the league by most measures. But they've had weeks where they've looked awful. Heinicke was carving them up last night.
Yep, I agree 100%. They can be dominant. Or they can be awful.
 

johnmd20

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They were the number 3 defense and 32nd offense by DVOA. They suck, but mainly because they've had awful QB play. Most passing yards they had given up this season before yesterday was 308 to Ben. That defense is legit and to hang 381 yards on them with 7 drops, including two dropped TDs is pretty remarkable.
And Heiny was definitely the best passing QB the WFT had this season. Smith, a game manager, is the checkdown king. Haskins is just bad across the board. Kyle Allen is a backup.

Yesterday's version of the WFT was probably the best version they have. It wasn't a terrible win, although the TB defense didn't look great yesterday. Either Heiny is gonna have an incredible future in the NFL or he just looked great because TB can't cover WRs.
 

Caspir

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Brady has as many playoff wins against NFC teams (7) as Brees. That’s ridiculous.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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As bad a person as AB may be, he has made a huge difference for the Bucs...Tom knew what he was doing (as always) when he pushed hard for the signing.
 

BaseballJones

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I mean, when all three of these guys are in top form, how many teams have a better WR group than Brown, Evans, and Godwin? Anyone? Thielen and Jefferson are a great 1-2. As are Metcalf and Lockett, and Buffalo has a really terrific group. But Brown, Evans, and Godwin are all pretty awesome when they're healthy and playing right.

EDIT: I forgot to add in there this amazing group too: Byrd, Meyers, and Harry. It's pretty close, right?
 

rodderick

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I mean, when all three of these guys are in top form, how many teams have a better WR group than Brown, Evans, and Godwin? Anyone? Thielen and Jefferson are a great 1-2. As are Metcalf and Lockett, and Buffalo has a really terrific group. But Brown, Evans, and Godwin are all pretty awesome when they're healthy and playing right.

EDIT: I forgot to add in there this amazing group too: Byrd, Meyers, and Harry. It's pretty close, right?
The scary thing is I don't really think they played many snaps with all 3 of them fully healthy and integrated into the offense before the final 2 games of the season in which they were ridiculously explosive. Brown didn't play in the second half against Washington for some reason, Evans was banged up and Godwin had his worst day as a pro and it amounted to 381 passing yards against a very good defense. If they're all humming and Brady has time it's pretty much unstoppable.
 

Super Nomario

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Alex Cappa's injury is a concern; he's been solid for them at RG but fractured his ankle. Their top interior backup, AQ Shipley, is already out for the season, so they had to turn to 33-year-old (Patriots legend) Ted Larsen, who didn't play in the regular season this year. Larsen has started a lot of games in his career, but he was really struggling with Daron Payne. Tampa Bay's OL has been a strength this season, but this is the sort of thing that can undermine that.
 

Euclis20

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Starting the playoffs this year, Tom Brady had more playoff wins than every other QB in the playoffs combined.

That includes Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers, and Aaron Rodgers.

Just a ridiculous career. He has more playoff wins than every other team in the NFL except for GB, SF, Pitt, and Dallas.
And New England. Still 6 wins away from tying the Pats.
 

BaseballJones

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Franchises with the most playoff wins:

1. New England - 37
2. Pittsburgh - 36
3t. Dallas - 35
3t. Green Bay - 35
5. San Francisco - 32
6. Tom Brady - 31
 

tims4wins

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Here's a fun one
Montana - 16
Bradshaw - 14
Elway - 14
Manning - 14
Roethlisberger - 13
Favre - 13

...

Brady in the divisional round - 13

If Brady wins this coming week he'll have 14 divisional round wins. In a single round.

Edit:

here's another. If he wins this coming week, he'll have 16 playoff wins... after turning 35.
 

DJnVa

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I think he's also had something like 12 first round byes. I can't imagine many have more. Those should be added to that win total (not officially, but still...).
 

rodderick

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Franchises with the most playoff wins:

1. New England - 37
2. Pittsburgh - 36
3t. Dallas - 35
3t. Green Bay - 35
5. San Francisco - 32
6. Tom Brady - 31
He won't play long enough to reach 37 playoff wins but the mere fact that you can't discount it 100% is ridiculous. Let's just hope the Pats keep adding to this number to put some more distance between them and Tom.
 

tims4wins

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He won't play long enough to reach 37 playoff wins but the mere fact that you can't discount it 100% is ridiculous. Let's just hope the Pats keep adding to this number to put some more distance between them and Tom.
He could get to 37 next year!
 

cshea

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13 bye's by my count. He's only lost in the WC round twice. 18 playoff appearances, only one-and-done 3 times (09 Ravens, 10 Jets. 20 Titans).
 

Euclis20

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I think he's also had something like 12 first round byes. I can't imagine many have more. Those should be added to that win total (not officially, but still...).
That's a record that will never be broken, especially if the new playoff format sticks around (like Ghost's consecutive XP record).
 

johnmd20

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And New England. Still 6 wins away from tying the Pats.
Sorry, I excluded the Pats on purpose because it's impossible for Brady to have more wins than the Pats. But, yes, he does not have more than the Pats and I guess he could technically pass them at this point. Which would probably not happen but would be something.
 

tims4wins

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Brady has beaten 17 different teams in the playoffs.

Montana had 16 wins.

Edit: that only counts the Rams once to be clear
 

Rook05

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I thought to myself that Tom looked dumb in that white baseball hat, but then I realized it’s because he’s usually wearing a pom pom hat.

But he did look dumb in that hat.
 

wiffleballhero

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This has been a cute little Rumspringa, but I want to see Brady back home with the Pats soon.

This is more than a little agonizing to watch. He's going to run the table here, beating Brees, Rodgers and Mahomes right in a row.
 

lexrageorge

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When Drew Brees walked off the field last night, it definitely seemed like the end of the line for the "other" future first-ballot Hall-of-Famer playing last night. If so, Brees will finish his career as one of 12 quarterbacks with a winning record (5-3) against Tom Brady, and tied with Ryan Tannehill for 2nd with the most wins against TB12 (Peyton Manning won 6).
 

BigSoxFan

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I know Brady wasn’t his elite self yesterday but boy he looked worlds better than Brees.
Yup. Brady made a few iffy throws but his throws still have enough zip on them to get away with it most of the time. Perfect contrast were those sideline passes to the right. Brees threw an absolute duck that was easy to pick off and Lattimore wasn’t able to get to Brady’s even though he correctly diagnosed that throw to Miller.
 

Van Everyman

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Brady looked fine out there. I went into this game thinking the odds weren’t great that NOLA was going to beat them three times in a single season, esp. given that Brees didn’t look great since coming back from his injury.

As good as Brady is, he has had tons of playoff games over the years where he hadn’t been great bc, well, the defenses are better in the postseason. The same was true yesterday when the Saints once again mostly stymied him. The problem was that their offense fell short. This was less about TB’s defense (tho White was terrific and the pass rush was good) than Brees not having enough zip on his ball to force it into tight coverage. And his receivers picked a terrible time to have stone hands.

I’ve not been rooting for Brady all season bc I’m still grumpy about him being grumpy and leaving my favorite team. And I still don’t think Arians is a good fit for Tom. But they def. have the tools to win it all. And my guess is that people are really underestimating their chances in Green Bay next weekend.
 

BaseballJones

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Brees looks like he's ready to retire. He was in tears on the sidelines at the end of the game. He looked old. Brady, meanwhile, just keeps chugging along. He hasn't had a great completion percentage in the playoffs yet (54.8%), but has thrown for 580 yards, 4 td, and ZERO turnovers. Add in one rushing touchdown to boot.

Brady looks like he could play at a high level for a few more years, but Brees doesn't. Rodgers looks incredible too but man, he's just a kid at 37 years of age. Haha
 

Otis Foster

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Brady looked fine out there. I went into this game thinking the odds weren’t great that NOLA was going to beat them three times in a single season, esp. given that Brees didn’t look great since coming back from his injury.

As good as Brady is, he has had tons of playoff games over the years where he hadn’t been great bc, well, the defenses are better in the postseason. The same was true yesterday when the Saints once again mostly stymied him. The problem was that their offense fell short. This was less about TB’s defense (tho White was terrific and the pass rush was good) than Brees not having enough zip on his ball to force it into tight coverage. And his receivers picked a terrible time to have stone hands.

I’ve not been rooting for Brady all season bc I’m still grumpy about him being grumpy and leaving my favorite team. And I still don’t think Arians is a good fit for Tom. But they def. have the tools to win it all. And my guess is that people are really underestimating their chances in Green Bay next weekend.
That's about where I am. Tom's clearly GOAT in my book, and I can never thank him enough for what he delivered over the years, but I've found him to be increasingly unattractive as a personality, between his refusal to coach along younger receivers, his idiosyncratic attachment to Alex Guerro (and encouraging teammates to move from team facilities to Guerro), his business sidelines, his dissing of the New England playing environment.

I know that Belichick has created a lot of the problems, with his parsimony in dealing with Tom and his martial attitude turning off Gronk, its never a one sided story. I'll always wonder why Kraft never did anything to cool this problem off - Did he share the perception that TB was toast? Was he wary of antagonizing Belichick? If he's afraid of dealing with BB over a problem of this dimension, then he's got ownership concerns of another dimension.

In any case, what I saw of the game (I was on a ZOOM call for much of it) simply confirmed that TB, whether I like him or not, is a winner. He can go through a good part of a game looking like yesterday's news, and then he can turn it on when its important.

(I recognize that a lot of this is generated by the jilted lover's sour grapes, but there are objective reasons to feel this way too. And I've left out politics - his views are pretty widely held throughout the league, at least at ownership levels.)
 

bankshot1

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Brady '21 ain't Brady '07 or '17, but he's good enough with a decent D to win it all. He had a couple of balls yesterday that with some luck or longer finger tips were TDs.

I posted in the game thread, I always liked Brees and thought it unfortunate if this was his swan song. And lets remember, this guys got crushed about 5 weeks ago with broken ribs and a collapsed lung. Dude's tough and a HoFer. He was playing way less than 100% yesterday.

TB12 versus Rodgers in Lambeau has the makings of the NFL's version of Malamud's "The Natural". Aging star, thought to be washed up by the modern day Lombardi walks into the hallowed grounds of Lombardi, and outuels the league MVP and IMO league prima dona douche-bag and TVs explode all over American when Roy Hobbs hits Gronk for the game-winner at 0:00.

I'm so Team Redford on this.
 
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Super Nomario

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I know that Belichick has created a lot of the problems, with his parsimony in dealing with Tom and his martial attitude turning off Gronk, its never a one sided story. I'll always wonder why Kraft never did anything to cool this problem off - Did he share the perception that TB was toast? Was he wary of antagonizing Belichick? If he's afraid of dealing with BB over a problem of this dimension, then he's got ownership concerns of another dimension.
My read is that Kraft did do a lot to cool things off over the years; we know he was personally involved in a lot of Brady's contract negotiations, etc. He helped Brady buy his house (in Kraft's neighborhood), he rented him real estate for his TB12 business; I think he did what he could outside of normal channels to try to keep Brady happy. And they kept things together for 20 years, which is an amazing run. Eventually, I think things just got to the point where it made sense for everyone to move on.
 

Harry Hooper

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Brady playing less-than-stellar in the first half of a playoff game is not something that popped up in his 40's.
 
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Euclis20

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I've always liked Brees, but somehow he's been both overrated and underrated. Overrated statistically, it seems like he's spent his much of his career putting up empty stats for mediocre teams (missing the playoffs 4 times in 5 years, in his prime with a good coach, is pretty damning), juiced by playing in a dome (the NFL equivalent of the Colorado Rockies' offense). At the same time, he's at the very top (or near top) of all the passing stats, regardless of the circumstances, and for him not to make the all time 100 team was a rough look. Even if those records melt away in the next 20 years or so, his career has been both incredibly impressive and slightly underwhelming.

My read is that Kraft did do a lot to cool things off over the years; we know he was personally involved in a lot of Brady's contract negotiations, etc. He helped Brady buy his house (in Kraft's neighborhood), he rented him real estate for his TB12 business; I think he did what he could outside of normal channels to try to keep Brady happy. And they kept things together for 20 years, which is an amazing run. Eventually, I think things just got to the point where it made sense for everyone to move on.
Yeah I don't think their eventual parting was anyone's fault in particular. As they say, if things didn't end badly they wouldn't end at all. The Kraft/Belichick/Brady were by far the most successful owner/coach/player trio in history, any way you want to measure it. Obviously there were behind the scenes measures taken to extend it, at multiple points.
 

Silverdude2167

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Bruce Arians is an arrogant asshole apparently,

Consummate leader,” Arians said. “Has been all year. Got the air of confidence that permeates through our team every day. I allow him to be himself. Like, New England didn’t allow him to coach. I allow him to coach. I just sit back sometimes and watch.”
Yeah, Bruce you sure knew how to unlock Tom Brady unlike those fools up in New England who never took full advantage...
 

lostjumper

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Bruce Arians is an arrogant asshole apparently,



Yeah, Bruce you sure knew how to unlock Tom Brady unlike those fools up in New England who never took full advantage...
If only Bill was a genius like Bruce Arians and let Brady do his own thing... The Patriots may have even won a superbowl or 2 in his 20 years there!
 

rodderick

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Bruce Arians is an arrogant asshole apparently,



Yeah, Bruce you sure knew how to unlock Tom Brady unlike those fools up in New England who never took full advantage...
Bruce is just a buffoon. Even if that's the case and you indeed give Brady more freedom, you're really going to spin it like you're teaching Bill fucking Belichick how to handle the guy? God.
 

johnmd20

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Bruce is just a buffoon. Even if that's the case and you indeed give Brady more freedom, you're really going to spin it like you're teaching Bill fucking Belichick how to handle the guy? God.
SoSH has been a debacle today about QB talk. But this is a take I can get behind.

Arians is such a douche. He's full of himself and an idiot at the same time, which is a thrilling combination. But I am sure Tom Brady is grateful he finally got to a team that allowed him to be himself. His failures in New England are quite legendary and until he got to TB, he would have gone down as one of the biggest draft busts in NFL history. Thanks Bruce, you douche.