2020 Texans: Billy O'Brien Canned

soxhop411

soxhop411

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After a humiliating playoff loss, one would think there would be some retrospect about how their season ended. Right?
Well, this is the Texans and today they fired their SVP Chris Olsen. And instead of looking outside the organization for a replacement, the Texans owner rewards BoB by giving him and Jack Easterby even more power more power in the organization. So much so, that the only person these two report to is the owner.

View: https://twitter.com/AaronWilson_NFL/status/1219055872434941953

View: https://twitter.com/McClain_on_NFL/status/1219060754403471360
 
DeadlySplitter

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B'OB can build a fine program but he's horrific on gameday. Maybe they can hire a gameday coach to help him lol

they also haven't been able to draft OL at all and had to give up a lot of draft capital to patch it up - and it's still not a good OL.
 
Ale Xander

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Easterby has only been there 9 months. He must have compromising pictures of McNair
 
soxhop411

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How the hell does BOB still have a job?
View: https://streamable.com/zu1tq
Texans coach and General Manager Bill O’Brien was eager to trade away wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins, and Hopkins is apparently eager to play for a different coach as well.
Hall of Fame wide receiver Michael Irvin relayed this morning on ESPN a discussion that Hopkins told him he had with O’Brien. According to Hopkins, O’Brien sat Hopkins down to talk to him about life and brought up Aaron Hernandez, who played for O’Brien in New England and was later convicted of murder.
“The last time I had to have a meeting like this, it was with Aaron Hernandez,” Hopkins says O’Brien told him, according to Irvin.
Hopkins was not pleased with that comment.
“That blew my mind that he would even bring that up,” Hopkins told Irvin. “I’ve never been in any trouble. I don’t know why he would equate me with Aaron Hernandez.”
Irvin also says that O’Brien questioned how Hopkins was living his personal life.
“He told DeAndre he doesn’t like that he has his baby mommas around sometimes. And from there I think the relationship just went bad,” Irvin said.
We haven’t heard O’Brien’s side of this conversation, but it’s clear that whatever message O’Brien was trying to get across, it resulted in alienating one of his best players. And now that player is being traded away.
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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/18/michael-irvin-bill-obrien-offended-deandre-hopkins-with-aaron-hernandez-comment/
 
Euclis20

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He's 26, a half step below pro-bowl level, doesn't seem like he's a problem in the locker room, doesn't have an extensive injury history, and he'll be on his 4th team in 5 years. I understand why he was moved (that's a big contract) but still, it's odd to see a young solid player get traded around this much.
 
Cellar-Door

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So one argument for the bad Hopkins trade was to save money next year to re-sign Watson. This deal makes no sense if that was true, Cooks makes only $1.5M less than Hopkins next year
 
S

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Euclis20 said:
He's 26, a half step below pro-bowl level, doesn't seem like he's a problem in the locker room, doesn't have an extensive injury history, and he'll be on his 4th team in 5 years. I understand why he was moved (that's a big contract) but still, it's odd to see a young solid player get traded around this much.
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He kind of does, as he has a history of concussions.

This move is extremely on-brand for Bill O'Brien's Texans. It's a lot like watching the bad owner in your fantasy league operate.
 
BigSoxFan

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Cooks and Fuller seems very redundant but would obviously open up the middle of the field for a good slot WR. Cobb seems to have a little juice left. Of course, that trio will probably play like a combined 5 games together.
 
Euclis20

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Soxy Brown said:
He kind of does, as he has a history of concussions.

This move is extremely on-brand for Bill O'Brien's Texans. It's a lot like watching the bad owner in your fantasy league operate.
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He's not invincible, but concussions or not he didn't miss a game from 2015-2018 (averaging 77 catches, 1,150 yards and 7 TDs) and he played 14 games last year. He's had enough value to be traded twice for 1st round picks, and as the centerpiece of a trade for a 2nd round pick. In a vacuum each move is fine, it's just an odd quirk for a solid young player.
 
Seels

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kenneycb said:
Something tells me Cooks may be a problem.
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I doubt it. He's just a guy that is overpaid and that stats overrate.

Til Cooks retires the play I'm going to most remember him for is whatever the fuck he was doing where he got knocked the fuck out in SB52, minutes after trying (failing) to leap frog another player. Pats win that game if he just plays with average game intelligence.
 
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Soxy

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Euclis20 said:
He's not invincible, but concussions or not he didn't miss a game from 2015-2018 (averaging 77 catches, 1,150 yards and 7 TDs) and he played 14 games last year. He's had enough value to be traded twice for 1st round picks, and as the centerpiece of a trade for a 2nd round pick. In a vacuum each move is fine, it's just an odd quirk for a solid young player.
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He's had four concussions in the past two years. That seems like an issue, though I obviously haven't seen the medicals.

That aside, the biggest problem is that the Texans only made this trade to fill the hole that they created themselves with the bad DeAndre Hopkins trade, and Hopkins is a much better player than Cooks to begin with.

Hence my comparison to a bad fantasy football owner, because it's hard to find a coherent plan here. Unless the plan really was: "How can we turn DeAndre Hopkins into David Johnson and Brandin Cooks?"

So, either there is no plan, or there's an incredibly stupid plan.
 
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Soxy

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RedOctober3829 said:
Cooks' deal is all non-guaranteed after this year. If they cut him, they'll have gotten 1 year of Cooks and a 4th for a 2nd.
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For those who may have quickly skimmed over the tweet and missed it, worth noting that the 4th round pick is in 2022. Two years from now.

You can't make this stuff up.
 
BaseballJones

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Seels said:
I doubt it. He's just a guy that is overpaid and that stats overrate.

Til Cooks retires the play I'm going to most remember him for is whatever the fuck he was doing where he got knocked the fuck out in SB52, minutes after trying (failing) to leap frog another player. Pats win that game if he just plays with average game intelligence.
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Cooks is a good player who played well for the Pats. It's amazing that without Cooks and Edelman in the Super Bowl, the Patriots put up 633 yards, with Brady throwing for 505, 3 td, and 0 int.

Amendola was a beast. 8 rec, 152 yds
Gronk was Gronk. 9 rec, 116 yds, 2 td
Hogan was terrific. 6 rec, 128 yds, 1 td

633 total yards and lose. Unreal.
 
C

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What’s funny is that the snow bowl game has a eerily similar breakdown in the o-line on the game tying drive where the d man just gets his hands on the ball but Brady twists away and doesn’t fumble.


In the Eagles super bowl the d man gets to Brady enough to knock the ball loose and end the game. Goes to show how much of the game is inches.
 
DJnVa

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The Rams offense was weird last year, but prior to that Cooks had 4 straight 1000 yard seasons, averaging more than 7 TDs. His production just moves him into the "he needs to get paid a bit" territory that teams can live with for a season or two, then he moves on.
 
Cellar-Door

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The more I think about this series of deals the worse it looks:

You trade away a great WR for pick #40, a future 4th and a RB 3 years away from being above league average on a significantly underwater contract.

You then turn around and trade pick 57 for a further future 4th and a WR significantly worse than the one you traded on a similar contract (oh and he's coming off 2 concussions in a lost season brining him to 5 total)

If you're looking short term.... why not keep Hopkins then deal him after the season? Or if you HAVE to trade him, why not just roll with the WR corps you already have plus a rookie in a deep WR draft?

If you're looking long term, why in the world downgrade to Cooks?

If you need to clear cap next year.... why not use 40 or 57 to draft a WR in what is widely considered a DEEP WR class?


A side note... one reason likely for many of these trades is to clear cap, not just to re-sign their QB in Watson, but also to re-sign Laremy Tunsil, for whom they traded two 1sts and a 2nd, without getting an agreement for an extension.

It's not so much that a 2nd for Cooks and a 4th is bad (it is to me), it's that each move they make, stacks one after another to make less and less sense. It's the work of a person who isn't sure what he's doing and has no long term plan at all. Not only does B.O.B. not seem to have a 3 year plan, he doesn't even have a 3 week plan.


EDIT- oh right I also forgot that they just gave Randall CObb $18M guaranteed to be their 4th WR.
 
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Cellar-Door said:
The more I think about this series of deals the worse it looks:

You trade away a great WR for pick #40, a future 4th and a RB 3 years away from being above league average on a significantly underwater contract.

You then turn around and trade pick 57 for a further future 4th and a WR significantly worse than the one you traded on a similar contract (oh and he's coming off 2 concussions in a lost season brining him to 5 total)

If you're looking short term.... why not keep Hopkins then deal him after the season? Or if you HAVE to trade him, why not just roll with the WR corps you already have plus a rookie in a deep WR draft?

If you're looking long term, why in the world downgrade to Cooks?

If you need to clear cap next year.... why not use 40 or 57 to draft a WR in what is widely considered a DEEP WR class?


A side note... one reason likely for many of these trades is to clear cap, not just to re-sign their QB in Watson, but also to re-sign Laremy Tunsil, for whom they traded two 1sts and a 2nd, without getting an agreement for an extension.

It's not so much that a 2nd for Cooks and a 4th is bad (it is to me), it's that each move they make, stacks one after another to make less and less sense. It's the work of a person who isn't sure what he's doing and has no long term plan at all. Not only does B.O.B. not seem to have a 3 year plan, he doesn't even have a 3 week plan.


EDIT- oh right I also forgot that they just gave Randall CObb $18M guaranteed to be their 4th WR.
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I hate to continue piling on a guy from my hometown, but O'Brien is rapidly approaching Isiah Thomas with the Knicks levels of incompetence. If we're not there already. He has got to be the laughing stock of the league right now.
 
BaseballJones

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Soxy Brown said:
I hate to continue piling on a guy from my hometown, but O'Brien is rapidly approaching Isiah Thomas with the Knicks levels of incompetence. If we're not there already. He has got to be the laughing stock of the league right now.
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I guess. He must be doing something right though. His 6-year record with Houston is 52-44 (.541), including 11-5 and 10-6 the last two years, and he's won the division 4 out of those 6 seasons. I don't know if he's had GM powers all those years, but most franchises would give their left arm for that performance over a 6-year period.
 
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BaseballJones said:
I guess. He must be doing something right though. His 6-year record with Houston is 52-44 (.541), including 11-5 and 10-6 the last two years, and he's won the division 4 out of those 6 seasons. I don't know if he's had GM powers all those years, but most franchises would give their left arm for that performance over a 6-year period.
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O'Brien didn't take full control of personnel until the summer of 2019, which coincides with the start of Houston making a series of........ let's say head-scratching moves that have been almost universally derided as bad decisions right as they happened.

The Laremy Tunsil trade raised eyebrows, to say the least. Now Tunsil needs to be paid, as he's in the last year of his contract. He's also the reason the Texans don't have a first round pick this year or next year, and no second round pick next year either. That move seemed dumb at the time, still seems dumb now.

The DeAndre Hopkins trade made absolutely no sense at the time and makes even less sense now that they just traded for Brandin Cooks. David Johnson is essentially a negative asset at this point. Not to mention that BOB just traded a 3rd round pick for Duke Johnson last season, who is already a better player than David. Minnesota somehow got a much better haul for Stefon Diggs than Houston managed to get for DeAndre Hopkins, which doesn't make any sense and makes it seem likely BOB completely misjudged the market.

It's a series of decisions that seem individually bad in a vacuum and even worse when viewed in their totality. Again, he basically turned DeAndre Hopkins into David Johnson and Brandin Cooks. That is some creatively awful GM-ing. As is handing $18 mil for what will probably be two years of Randall Cobb. Danny Amendola signed a one year deal for basically $5 mil. Would you rather have him or Cobb? (Not that Houston necessarily had that option, just giving an idea of what the market looks like.)
 
BaseballJones

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If BOB didn't have "full control" until the start of 2019, how much control did he have before then?
 
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Soxy

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BaseballJones said:
If BOB didn't have "full control" until the start of 2019, how much control did he have before then?
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I'm sure he had a seat at the table, but O'Brien won the power struggle between him and GM Rick Smith after the 2017 season. That's when O'Brien really started increasing his power over personnel decisions. Brian Gaine was then hired as Smith's replacement as GM, with O'Brien's endorsement, but he only lasted a season before being shown the door.

It's definitely the Bill O'Brien show now.
 
BaseballJones

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Soxy Brown said:
I'm sure he had a seat at the table, but O'Brien won the power struggle between him and GM Rick Smith after the 2017 season. That's when O'Brien really started increasing his power over personnel decisions. Brian Gaine was then hired as Smith's replacement as GM, with O'Brien's endorsement, but he only lasted a season before being shown the door.

It's definitely the Bill O'Brien show now.
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Ok so he won the power struggle after 2017, and has had a lot of influence on personnel (and obviously coaching) from 2018-present. In that time, the Texans have gone 11-5 and 10-6 and have won the division twice.

I'm not disagreeing with you about how these string of moves appear to be pretty bad. But again, he has to be doing SOMETHING right. You don't go 21-11 and win two division titles in two years by accident.
 
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BaseballJones said:
Ok so he won the power struggle after 2017, and has had a lot of influence on personnel (and obviously coaching) from 2018-present. In that time, the Texans have gone 11-5 and 10-6 and have won the division twice.

I'm not disagreeing with you about how these string of moves appear to be pretty bad. But again, he has to be doing SOMETHING right. You don't go 21-11 and win two division titles in two years by accident.
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Deshaun Watson is the answer to your question. O'Brien deserves some credit for that too, sure. But it's mainly Watson.
 
Papelbon's Poutine

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The Tunsil trade, one can argue over what a franchise LT is worth, but the main criticism to throw at BOB for it was he didn’t lock up an extension before he pulled the trigger, like the Bears did with Mack. Now he has no leverage when extending him and Tunsil has a ton.
 
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Papelbon's Poutine said:
The Tunsil trade, one can argue over what a franchise LT is worth, but the main criticism to throw at BOB for it was he didn’t lock up an extension before he pulled the trigger, like the Bears did with Mack. Now he has no leverage when extending him and Tunsil has a ton.
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I would go so far as to argue that franchise left tackles are overrated in the modern NFL. Pass rush doesn't exclusively come from the right side. Pass rush comes from anywhere and everywhere. Protecting the QBs blindside is generally an overrated concept.

You want flexible linemen who can more or less act as interchangeable parts. That's the ideal.
 
tims4wins

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Soxy Brown said:
I would go so far as to argue that franchise left tackles are overrated in the modern NFL. Pass rush doesn't exclusively come from the right side. Pass rush comes from anywhere and everywhere. Protecting the QBs blindside is generally an overrated concept.

You want flexible linemen who can more or less act as interchangeable parts. That's the ideal.
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No need to look any further than our own back yard on this one. Matt Light and Nate Solder were good players. But they’ll make no hall of fame lists. The Pats strength in OL play has always been about the unit.
 
joe dokes

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tims4wins said:
No need to look any further than our own back yard on this one. Matt Light and Nate Solder were good players. But they’ll make no hall of fame lists. The Pats strength in OL play has always been about the unit.
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tims4wins said:
No need to look any further than our own back yard on this one. Matt Light and Nate Solder were good players. But they’ll make no hall of fame lists. The Pats strength in OL play has always been about the unit.
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Watson's skill set also makes the "blindside" an elusive concept.
 
Cellar-Door

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BaseballJones said:
Ok so he won the power struggle after 2017, and has had a lot of influence on personnel (and obviously coaching) from 2018-present. In that time, the Texans have gone 11-5 and 10-6 and have won the division twice.

I'm not disagreeing with you about how these string of moves appear to be pretty bad. But again, he has to be doing SOMETHING right. You don't go 21-11 and win two division titles in two years by accident.
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I mean he is probably a pretty good coach, and he inherited the best talent in the division by a mile.

The problem is, all the talent is from before he had personnel control and since he has been bad.

Their last 2 drafts haven't been anything special, but the trades.... oh the trades:
2018- traded a 4th for 7 games of Demariyus Thomas
2019- Traded a 3rd for Duke Johnson
2019- Traded Rankin who they had just picked in the 3rd for Carlos Hyde
2019- Traded Jadaveon Clowney for 2 backup LBs (they combined for 1 start and 17 tackles) and a 2020 3rd
2019-Traded a 2020 3rd for Gareon Conley
2019- The Tunsil trade (which can be argued, but not getting an extension as part of the deal is killing them right now)
2020- Covered above.

The planning is so weird. Basically traded multiple 3rd rounders for vet RBs other teams were trying to dump which is just awful.
 
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