2020 TB12: The Decision 2020

How Would You Feel if Brady Left?

  • Completely devastated

    Votes: 24 13.0%
  • Very disappointed but still got BB

    Votes: 84 45.4%
  • Hold my beer until we know our next QB

    Votes: 29 15.7%
  • Eh, this may turn out to be a plus

    Votes: 32 17.3%
  • Let the Stidham era begin!

    Votes: 16 8.6%

  • Total voters
    185
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DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
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Dec 16, 2010
40,160
Does anyone know what the rationale might be for it not looking good for Brady to return to NE? What is the actual information on this?

Because I've seen ZERO actual information. Just a lot of bloggers and twitter people and reporters throwing stuff out there. Even Curran's SF stuff was "I believe it would make sense for him to go to SF" kind of thing. No actual information, just total speculation.
Because that's how anonymous sources work. Especially in a situation like this. I know the Pats are tight-lipped, but Brady has never really played this game outside of BB's control, and it's possible people in his camp have an inkling as to what direction he's leaning. It's not out of the realm of possibility.
 

Bowhemian

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Nov 10, 2015
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Again, nobody knows anything. There are no "sources close to the situation". It's the media trying to get clicks while nothing is going on.
There are 2 people who know stuff. TB and BB. That's about it, and they ain't talking to the media.
This is definitely not true given that Brady's paying Yee a lot to do legwork and other teams must be talking to Yee.

(But I fully admit that paying as much attention to this as I have been is silly).
What’s your source “definitely not true”?
Does anyone know what the rationale might be for it not looking good for Brady to return to NE? What is the actual information on this?

Because I've seen ZERO actual information. Just a lot of bloggers and twitter people and reporters throwing stuff out there. Even Curran's SF stuff was "I believe it would make sense for him to go to SF" kind of thing. No actual information, just total speculation.
Exactly my point. No one knows anything
 

Anthologos

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Jun 4, 2017
30
I’m a bit confused as to what the appeal of the Raiders could be, player-wise. Are they considered a stacked offense? Darren Waller has a career year, and Renfrow seems good and he’s young, and Jacobs looks great...but are they all a huge draw? I’m no expert, so I’m probably missing something.

The other odd thing is, could Raider fans ever root for Brady? He’ll be the face of a displaced franchise whose fans are either the angry and abandoned Oaklanders, or the rather faceless high-rollers and tourists of Vegas. Seems like a weird choice to me. Like I said, I’m missing something I guess.
 

nattysez

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What’s your source “definitely not true”?
Multiple reporters who have reputations they care about have cultivated connections with Brady's agent and/or the Pats such that they feel they can trust those sources and report on tidbits leaked to them. Multiple of those reporters have been indicating that Brady is likely to leave, based on sources. At the very least, it seems likely that (1) Yee is getting a bad feeling from the Pats and is starting to leak "he's gone" to see if he can bring them around and/or (2) people within the Pats' organization are being told to do things that make them think Brady's gone or have been given indications that the Pats aren't going to spend a ton at the QB spot this year, meaning that if Brady goes to FA, he's very likely gone.

Do those sources have agendas? Sure. Is this iron-clad factual info? No. But that doesn't mean that "no one knows anything."

The idea that NO ONE knows ANYTHING is incredibly naive, particularly when combined with your assertion that "only" Belichick and Brady know what's going to happen next. Do you think those two just lock themselves into a room to negotiate his contract? There are agents and underlings of various stripes being exposed to all kinds of info that explicitly or implicitly indicates what's happening.

But if no one knows anything, then why even bother coming into the thread? Go find something else to talk about until Brady and BB emerge from their conclave.
 

CreedBratton

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Dec 6, 2009
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I’m a bit confused as to what the appeal of the Raiders could be, player-wise. Are they considered a stacked offense? Darren Waller has a career year, and Renfrow seems good and he’s young, and Jacobs looks great...but are they all a huge draw? I’m no expert, so I’m probably missing something.

The other odd thing is, could Raider fans ever root for Brady? He’ll be the face of a displaced franchise whose fans are either the angry and abandoned Oaklanders, or the rather faceless high-rollers and tourists of Vegas. Seems like a weird choice to me. Like I said, I’m missing something I guess.
Yup it makes no sense. They don’t have very many weapons & Raiders fans hate TB more then any athlete ever.
 

cornwalls@6

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Apr 23, 2010
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It has really never described any Tom Brady negotiation with the Patriots.
Right, but he’s also never been an UFA. Im
not sure if some people (and I know you’re passing along the tweet, not really advocating for its accuracy) thought this would be quick, easy, and team friendly. We’ve known he’s very likely going to free agency since last summer. None of how this has proceeded so far seems outside of the norm of that to me.
 

RedOctober3829

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Right, but he’s also never been an UFA. Im
not sure if some people (and I know you’re passing along the tweet, not really advocating for its accuracy) thought this would be quick, easy, and team friendly. We’ve known he’s very likely going to free agency since last summer. None of how this has proceeded so far seems outside of the norm of that to me.
I didn't think it would be easy either.
 

bosockboy

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Jul 15, 2005
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I’m a bit confused as to what the appeal of the Raiders could be, player-wise. Are they considered a stacked offense? Darren Waller has a career year, and Renfrow seems good and he’s young, and Jacobs looks great...but are they all a huge draw? I’m no expert, so I’m probably missing something.

The other odd thing is, could Raider fans ever root for Brady? He’ll be the face of a displaced franchise whose fans are either the angry and abandoned Oaklanders, or the rather faceless high-rollers and tourists of Vegas. Seems like a weird choice to me. Like I said, I’m missing something I guess.
Waller and Renfrow great chain movers, and likely spending one of their 1st rounders on Jeudy or Lamb. And Jacobs.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

writes the Semi-Fin
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I don’t understand what “leverage” means here.

TB: If you won’t pay me 3/90 I’ll take my talents to Vegas.

BB: If I give you 3/90 here’s the list of players I can afford to surround you with on offense:

[BB: Hands Brady list of broken-down vets willing to play for the minimum, washed out draft busts trying to stay in the league, practice-squad heroes from Rutgers, talented headcases who are discounted thanks to “character issues,” and youngsters who don’t know the playbook.]

What is Brady’s leverage here? I love him and want him to end his career with the Pats, but if he wants to both stay in NE and get paid what the market will bear, he’ll have a miserable year barking at a collection of sub-replacement-level receivers. And he can no longer elevate mediocrities to competence. It’ll be Reche Caldwells all the way down.

And watching him get clobbered for money behind a cheap OL? Neither Giselle nor I find that acceptable. We talk.
 

JimD

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Nov 29, 2001
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Do any of these idiots like Curran even care anymore whether people can tell the difference between real reporting, and “ throwing things against the wall”?
He wasn't 'reporting' this initially, he was on a radio show giving his opinion.
 

BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
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He wasn't 'reporting' this initially, he was on a radio show giving his opinion.
Exactly. There is virtually no actual news on any of this. It's literally guys just throwing out their opinions. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard people say things like, "Tom is so done with Bill", and I'm like...where the F*** do you get that? Because Tom has never said it or even hinted at that. Ever. Anything that's ever come out of his mouth (publicly anyway) regarding Bill has been nothing short of admiration and appreciation. There's also reasons why he keeps re-signing with the Patriots. Suddenly, at 43, he's sick of dealing with Bill and can't deal with how BB does things?
 

bakahump

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just a hypothetical....

Your BB. Brady says "Look Bill, I will come back for 20 Million per for 3 years, with only 40 million guaranteed (or substitute your own "team friendly but not bare bones" contract like 3rd year option etc etc). However I want some perks. I want Alex to be allowed to be my personal trainer and have access to team facilities and resources. I want to be able to skip mini camp and OTAs and this . Finally I want to be able to have more flexability in my schedule during the season for future endeavors and family commitments."
(Basically all the shit that have been brought up over the last 3 years as sticking in the craw of brady <Not arguing there validity assume they are> , he wants it resolved).

Do you as BB agree? Does the immovable object allow this kind of Bill Russell/superstar freedom/perks to a player. Any player? Even Brady? Does he consider giving up some authority for monetary considerations and to put the team in a better situation moving forward?

And if so.....is there any reason why if allowed these concessions that Brady would go anywhere else? Is 5-10 million (for 2 years) really worth it to Brady at this point in his life? Or would he rather have more "freedom"?

Will this play out this way...almost certainly not. Or is this really the issue(s)? Who knows. But its an interesting question.
 

Kull

wannabe merloni
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Nov 1, 2005
1,555
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Here's what we know (based on the actions and statements of TB12):
- He's never been "about the money"
- He wants to play until he's 45
- He wants to win Super Bowls

So as long as we're doing hypotheticals:

"I can't be Tom Brady if the O-Line is a revolving door and I'll never last out the season at age 43+ (much less make it to another super bowl) if I keep getting clobbered by huge linemen. So Bill, I'll sign for well below market if you invest those savings, dollar-for-dollar in the line." And here's where it probably gets sticky; "And I want to see plans and action on that front before I sign, AND be part of that discussion."
 

bsj

Renegade Crazed Genius
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Dec 6, 2003
18,838
Central NJ SoSH Chapter
There's an awful smoke around the "Brady is gone" theory coming from multiple directions in the media. At this point, I am, sadly, inclined to believe them. Based on that, if the Patriots beat Brady to the punch and sign or deal for someone, I really cant kill them for it.

Unless its Andy Dalton, there is no excuse for Andy Dalton.
 

Harry Hooper

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There's an awful smoke around the "Brady is gone" theory coming from multiple directions in the media. At this point, I am, sadly, inclined to believe them. Based on that, if the Patriots beat Brady to the punch and sign or deal for someone, I really cant kill them for it.
The alternate take is the Brady camp is almost desperately trying to stoke interest from other teams by trying to get the message out there that he's really ready to leave new England and sign elsewhere.
 

RGREELEY33

Potty Mouth
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Nov 28, 2005
3,996
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I do not recall off the top of my head another top free agent player that was a franchise player, that most would think would never leave that team, actually going to free agency and staying with that team when there was this much smoke around him leaving.

I get that it is TOM FUCKING BRADY, but I think he is gone at this point. Somewhat shamefully, I am kind of excited to see what BB can do with another QB and this defense and all of the legacy arguments that will inevitably arise from it.
 

NomarsFool

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Dec 21, 2001
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No way I'd trade Edelman and a pick for Jimmy G. We trade away our pretty much only receiver? I know it frees up some money to maybe get someone else, but I'm supposed to watch Brady, Betts, and Edelman all leave this winter? That's pretty much all the posters/jerseys in my house.
 

Oppo

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Maybe if he spent more time working with Harry, the TEs, Myers, etc before the season started they could’ve worked out some chemistry instead of trying to force it once it became critical and whining when it didn’t work.

You can’t blame BB for the 2 most important OL getting hurt, going all out for AB and it didn’t work out, trading Gordon since he got suspended anyway, Sanu getting hurt, and Harry getting hurt.

Brady was given a top defense, top special teams (that Bailey/Slater/Bethel group was great and even Folk ended up being solid), the OL was generally solidified, and decent weapons. He couldn’t get it done and came off as a huge baby complaining about his weapons. For all the credit he deserves for the wins, he deserves just as much for his part in 2019. If he wants to tarnish his legacy and leave with this as the last image as a Patriot, so be it.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
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Ohh, the knives are already starting to come out for TB!

I guess it is starting to look like he may really end up on another team. I still don't think that's the most likely option, but in many ways as soon as we heard he had extracted no franchise from the team for basically this was always a non-zero chance.

He's going to be really fucking good wherever he plays. I'm resigned to that fact. Because he is Tom Brady.
 

heavyde050

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Maybe if he spent more time working with Harry, the TEs, Myers, etc before the season started they could’ve worked out some chemistry instead of trying to force it once it became critical and whining when it didn’t work.

You can’t blame BB for the 2 most important OL getting hurt, going all out for AB and it didn’t work out, trading Gordon since he got suspended anyway, Sanu getting hurt, and Harry getting hurt.

Brady was given a top defense, top special teams (that Bailey/Slater/Bethel group was great and even Folk ended up being solid), the OL was generally solidified, and decent weapons. He couldn’t get it done and came off as a huge baby complaining about his weapons. For all the credit he deserves for the wins, he deserves just as much for his part in 2019. If he wants to tarnish his legacy and leave with this as the last image as a Patriot, so be it.
I am not sure TB12 couldn’t get it done is the most accurate assessment of last year. I mean he had zero running game (we can chalk that up to losing key blockers at TE, OL, and FB).
I mostly disagree with the solid weapons part of the take. I mean maybe through week 3 before the injuries and craziness kicked in (also when Brady had weapons, his stats were fine).
I do agree BB tried to improve the weapons; it was just the rare instance that all of the moves seemed to fail.

Edit - Chemisty is important, but I watched way to many skill players straight up drop passes that hit them in stride to blame it all on Brady.
 
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pappymojo

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Jul 28, 2010
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I am not sure TB12 couldn’t get it done is the best take. I mean he had zero running game (we can chalk that up to losing key blockers at TE, OL, and FB).
I am firmly still a believer in Brady as a QB. I want him back and I think that this team will regress significantly if he signs elsewhere.

Just want To call out the idea that Brady had a down year due to the lack of a running game.

Couldn't you also say that the running game failed to establish itself because they had no passing game? The Pats offense last year wasn't one-dimensional. They were zero-dimensional.

To be clear, I am not blaming Brady for last year. I'm just also not blaming Sony Michel and the running game either.

To me, splitting blame between the running game and the passing game is a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg situation. Both aspects of the offense failed.
 

heavyde050

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I am firmly still a believer in Brady as a QB. I want him back and I think that this team will regress significantly if he signs elsewhere.

Just want To call out the idea that Brady had a down year due to the lack of a running game.

Couldn't you also say that the running game failed to establish itself because they had no passing game? The Pats offense last year wasn't one-dimensional. They were zero-dimensional.

To be clear, I am not blaming Brady for last year. I'm just also not blaming Sony Michel and the running game either.

To me, splitting blame between the running game and the passing game is a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg situation. Both aspects of the offense failed.
I was mostly blaming the lack of strong running game on injuries/retirements. There was a complete inability to pick up at least a few key 4 and shorts.
I blame that on mostly the running game and/or play calling. I don’t blame the passing game.

Edit - I agree the entire offense failed. But I am also of the opinion that if AB doesn’t Go crazy, the passing game looks a lot better (with just that small change).
 

TheMoralBully

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Oct 10, 2005
146
Brady was like 10 TD, 3 INT, competing around 67% of his passes for around 275 yards/game through 5 games last season. Then both Gordon and Brown didn't work out, the injuries mounted and the offense was pretty bare. I do think there's some credibility to the thought that he has slipped enough that maybe he can't carry the show as much he used to, but he still played very well when he had good players around him. And really, we saw similar performances when the "cupboard was bare" the year before, as well as 2013 and 2015, so it's not like this was unprecedented.

Edelman, Sanu, a Harry who showed nothing last year and no TEs isn't good; it's understandable he wants to see improvements. Whether the Patriots are even in a position where they can make those improvements in such short order, I don't know. Seems like it's going to be difficult. It might be an unfortunate situation where neither side is going to be happy and they have to part ways and that's really going to suck, but I have a hard time blaming either BB or Brady.
 

Super Nomario

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I am firmly still a believer in Brady as a QB. I want him back and I think that this team will regress significantly if he signs elsewhere.

Just want To call out the idea that Brady had a down year due to the lack of a running game.

Couldn't you also say that the running game failed to establish itself because they had no passing game? The Pats offense last year wasn't one-dimensional. They were zero-dimensional.

To be clear, I am not blaming Brady for last year. I'm just also not blaming Sony Michel and the running game either.

To me, splitting blame between the running game and the passing game is a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg situation. Both aspects of the offense failed.
I don't see it. Brady lit up the Steelers like a pinball machine in Week 1 and Sony Michel had 14 yards on 15 carries. And the run game actually came around a bit late in the year, but that was the time period when the passing game ("bolstered" by Harry and Sanu) fell apart.
 

Harry Hooper

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The alternate take is the Brady camp is almost desperately trying to stoke interest from other teams by trying to get the message out there that he's really ready to leave new England and sign elsewhere.

Looks like Bedard is on the same page:

That’s why I think Brady’s camp is responsible for a lot of the leaks — he’s trying to create a market when there really isn’t a robust one.
...
If Brady knew he had a robust market and a perfect landing spot like the 49ers was laying in the weeds, then why the need for the leaks? Why tell us anything?

The truth is there isn’t much of a market, at least not with teams Brady really wants to or would play for.
 

cornwalls@6

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Apr 23, 2010
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However this shakes out, and I really hope he stays here, one thing that’s been floated, which I don’t think will ever happen, is that that he becomes some sort of de-facto assistant GM, with input on other roster moves involving the offense. I can’t see Bill ever offering or going along with something like that. Some sort of general verbal commitment to improve other positions on offense if they can, maybe. But Bills MO through the years has been that he runs the coaching staff and football operations, and the players play. I can’t see him relinquishing any of that, even for Brady. And through the years, Brady himself has acknowledged that’s the way it is, and has never , at least publicly, questioned or complained about it.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Jun 27, 2006
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New day, new poll. For posterity, here are the final results of the last poll "What Will Happen with Brady?":
  • Retirement: 6.0%
  • Returns to NE, has a better year: 42.1%
  • Returns to NE, has a similar or worse year: 31.4%
  • Goes elsewhere, has a better year: 4.5%
  • Goes elsewhere, has a similar or worse year: 15.9%
 

BlackJack

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Oct 11, 2007
1,663
I was 'returns, similar or worse' and now I'm 'Eh, this may turn out to be a plus'

I still think he probably comes back but if he does leave, it's hard to be too upset for me.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
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I think the poll is a bit flawed. Won’t we all be devastated when Brady leaves in the same sense that we were devastated when Papi retired?

Isn’t the question really how much we will be bothered by him playing his last two years as a non Patriot versus retiring as a Patriot.

I am crushed that very soon Brady will not be our QB. That is already baked into how I feel about the next two years. I will only be incrementally a little more crushed if we don’t get him for the next two years.
 
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axx

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Jul 16, 2005
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You know, the Corona Virus would be a rather convient excuse if Brady decides that he doesn't like any of the offers and retires instead.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
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You know, the Corona Virus would be a rather convient excuse if Brady decides that he doesn't like any of the offers and retires instead.
Brady’s more likely to say the TB12 method prevents infection.
 

NomarsFool

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Dec 21, 2001
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Unless there is some team out there that happens to have a huge amount of cap room AND a stocked roster, I can't see Brady "getting paid his due" as so many in the media talk about.

So, I like bakahump's take. He has every intention of coming back to the Patriots, but he wants to jerk them around a bit so that he can negotiate some of the fringe benefits that he believe a player of his stature and tenure with the club deserves (which I can understand). He's not getting more money, but he would like to Bill to pitch to him. He wants to hear Bill say that they are going to give him a good O-line, that they are going to get some better offensive weapons, and that TB will have some freedom. He MAY want to skip OTAs, wouldn't surprise me - but I hope that maybe he sees the error of that. It's kind of a bad look, and he could use the work with the receiving squad.
 

Bowser

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Sep 27, 2019
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Brady has a well-documented Twitter bromance ongoing with Antonio Brown. I wonder if this is his way of letting Kraft know he's willing to walk unless AB returns. Sorry to go there, but AB would solve several problems (while perhaps creating several more).
 

djbayko

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Jul 18, 2005
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Brady has a well-documented Twitter bromance ongoing with Antonio Brown. I wonder if this is his way of letting Kraft know he's willing to walk unless AB returns. Sorry to go there, but AB would solve several problems (while perhaps creating several more).
I'd be okay with that if we had any evidence that he could stay on the field so we don't squander $6M in cap space again for nothing in return. Seems like a huge risk for any team.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
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Brady has a well-documented Twitter bromance ongoing with Antonio Brown. I wonder if this is his way of letting Kraft know he's willing to walk unless AB returns. Sorry to go there, but AB would solve several problems (while perhaps creating several more).
Seems at odds with any Vegas rumors.
 
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