2020 PGA Tour

FL4WL3SS

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Could be an ugly 2 days for Tiger if he can't hit a fairway or a green. Looks like he hasn't taken a full swing on a course in months.
He's toast. I think he was ready to go for the Masters in April, but the quarantine hit and he hasn't been the same. I don't think Tiger wins another tournament, he looks old as shit. Hell Phil looks younger and has him by 5+ years.
 

cshea

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This just kind of is what he is. When he's feeling good and can put in the reps he'll contend/win. Otherwise. it's a slog. I don't think it's a coincidence that his wins have come at the end of stretches where he was healthy enough to play on a regular basis.

This is kind of how he looked after the Masters last year. He looked terrible the rest of the Tour season and battled some injuries. Then all of a sudden he showed up in Japan and won and was the best player on the team in the Presidents Cup. I think he'll still have his peaks but they'll be shorter and further apart. When he can put in the reps. he's been great.
 

jercra

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This just kind of is what he is. When he's feeling good and can put in the reps he'll contend/win. Otherwise. it's a slog. I don't think it's a coincidence that his wins have come at the end of stretches where he was healthy enough to play on a regular basis.

This is kind of how he looked after the Masters last year. He looked terrible the rest of the Tour season and battled some injuries. Then all of a sudden he showed up in Japan and won and was the best player on the team in the Presidents Cup. I think he'll still have his peaks but they'll be shorter and further apart. When he can put in the reps. he's been great.
Agreed. The best he's looked so far this year was with Phil, TB12 and Manning.
 

FL4WL3SS

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This just kind of is what he is. When he's feeling good and can put in the reps he'll contend/win. Otherwise. it's a slog. I don't think it's a coincidence that his wins have come at the end of stretches where he was healthy enough to play on a regular basis.

This is kind of how he looked after the Masters last year. He looked terrible the rest of the Tour season and battled some injuries. Then all of a sudden he showed up in Japan and won and was the best player on the team in the Presidents Cup. I think he'll still have his peaks but they'll be shorter and further apart. When he can put in the reps. he's been great.
What's preventing him from putting in reps? That's part of my calculus, he doesn't play enough to contend anymore.
 

cshea

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What's preventing him from putting in reps? That's part of my calculus, he doesn't play enough to contend anymore.
His health, of course. When he's felt good and been able to play, he's been elite. I think he'll still have these little bursts here and there but they'll be more sporadic.
 

cshea

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He's healthy. He's just not playing and practicing as much.
Is he? He was skipping events left and right before the shutdown due to injury. He's mentioned back soreness/stiffness as recently as the US Open.

I guess we'll get a better read on how he is feeling physically if he plays the Houston Open.
 

Average Reds

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He's healthy. He's just not playing and practicing as much.
The man has had four lower back surgeries; the last of which fused several vertebrae together.

He may be "healthy" in the sense of "feeling generally good," but he'll never be healthy in the sense of "able to put in the kind of reps he needs to play at the level of Tiger Woods" again. His lower back simply cannot take that kind of sustained action.

That doesn't mean he won't show flashes of brilliance on occasion, or even win a tournament. However, he appears to be pretty much done as a reliable contender.
 

cshea

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Mid-late 2nd round would where my brain would slot him, but who knows how the heart strings would pull if I had a mid/late pick in the 1st round. With a top 20 guy already in the bag, you can roll the dice on boom or bust types in the 2nd round.
 

FL4WL3SS

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The man has had four lower back surgeries; the last of which fused several vertebrae together.

He may be "healthy" in the sense of "feeling generally good," but he'll never be healthy in the sense of "able to put in the kind of reps he needs to play at the level of Tiger Woods" again. His lower back simply cannot take that kind of sustained action.

That doesn't mean he won't show flashes of brilliance on occasion, or even win a tournament. However, he appears to be pretty much done as a reliable contender.
Right, that's what I meant. He's generally as healthy as he's going to be. One thing we've learned about Tiger is that he needs the reps to be effective and he's not putting in those reps anymore.

I've been following Tiger since 1994 and haven't missed a single major victory and have probably witnessed over half of his 82 overall victories as they happened. He's been my favorite golfer since I was a teenager.

It pains me to say it, but I think he's toast. Reasonable minds can disagree.
 

jercra

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Right, that's what I meant. He's generally as healthy as he's going to be. One thing we've learned about Tiger is that he needs the reps to be effective and he's not putting in those reps anymore.

I've been following Tiger since 1994 and haven't missed a single major victory and have probably witnessed over half of his 82 overall victories as they happened. He's been my favorite golfer since I was a teenager.

It pains me to say it, but I think he's toast. Reasonable minds can disagree.
I still think he'll have his moments and maybe win a couple more tourneys, but yeah, if/until he can play 4 or 5 events in row, he'll never be a regular contender. The fields are too good now and he doesn't have the physical advantage he used to have. He's like the rest of us now, but at a PGA Tour level. If things are working well for him, he can still win, but mostly they aren't.
 

Average Reds

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Right, that's what I meant. He's generally as healthy as he's going to be. One thing we've learned about Tiger is that he needs the reps to be effective and he's not putting in those reps anymore.

I've been following Tiger since 1994 and haven't missed a single major victory and have probably witnessed over half of his 82 overall victories as they happened. He's been my favorite golfer since I was a teenager.

It pains me to say it, but I think he's toast. Reasonable minds can disagree.
On the same page. Thanks.
 

TFP

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Yeah you do - shanks are probably the most common mishit for pros. It's the chunks/blades that are extremely rare, especially out of the fairway.
 

wonderland

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Interesting stretch of holes for Phil.

He birdies four of five holes. The one hole he didn’t, he had a quad.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Yeah you do - shanks are probably the most common mishit for pros. It's the chunks/blades that are extremely rare, especially out of the fairway.
Actually, lots of bad stuff happens at tournaments, it's just rare that it's caught on camera so perfectly.

I was about 10 yards behind Villegas at the Memorial tournament on the 18th hole when he chunked 4-5 chips up the hill and the ball kept coming back to his feet.
 

cshea

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Jordan is having a very Spiethian round in Houston today. Bogey free, -2 front 9. And then we get to the back...1 par so far.. 2 bogey's. 3 doubles and 2 birdies.
 

cshea

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Also, fans are back. We've got baba booey jerks. What poor bastard is going to get COVID from some jackass maskless fan and be forced to miss the Masters next week?
 
Peter Alliss has died:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/55204070A legend, no question. His style didn't translate all that well to ABC, but when you look at his work in totality, I'd be hard-pressed to think of more than a handful of golf commentators who had a greater impact on the sport than he did. And he was a pretty capable player himself, back in the day - I hadn't realized that both he and his dad represented GB&I in the Ryder Cup.

(FWIW, I interviewed Alliss for what became my first book, and he really was a delight to talk to, even speaking to a nobody like me.)
 

CodPiece XL

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I met Peter for the first time when I was a kid at Turnberry, early 80's. The BBC were doing the pro-am. He took me under his wing and introduced me to Seve and Lee Travino. He was just so nice to me. I'm sure there are things that have been brought up after the fact about his views on women's golf. So that's where I will shut up, not going there. He was kind, showed interest in a nobody, yeah I'll miss him.
 

cshea

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Good golf on today. The final round of the US Women's open gets underway at 9:00am on the Golf Channel. Thusfar,. coverage has been entirely commercial free and I'd expect that to continue. Yesterday was wiped out due to weather and today still looks pretty nasty...cold. rainy, windy, so if carnage is you're thing, you might be in business.

Hinako Shibuno currently has a 1-shot lead over Amy Olson. Shibuno is a young star from Japan. She won her first ever major start, the Women's British Open in 2019. Going for her 2nd major victory in 5 major starts today. She had a 4-shot lead at one point during the 3rd round before leaking some oil coming in. She's got a bit of Bryson in her, she went right to the range for a lengthy session Saturday night after her round. Olson is only 28 but gets disucssed asa bit of a journey-women on the LPGA Tour. The broadcast has been talking her up as a prolific junior and college player but she has yet to break through and win on the LPGA tour. Olson also suffered a tragedy, losing her father in law unexpectedly Saturday night. Other players are lurking around so it's pretty wide open especially if the weather causes multiple car wrecks.
 

cshea

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This has been pretty good so far. Shibuno just made a bogey at 8 so she is tied for the lead with Olson at -2. Olson started wobbly with bogeys at 2,3.4 but bounced back with birdies at 5 and 6 to get the momentum back. Bunch of other players in the mix, including world #1 who is now only a shot back. I guess with wind chill it's like 37 degrees there. They are freezing. It is amusing to watch them toss on the full winter jacket and gloves after every shot.

It's also kind of interesting to watch professionals who hit it a similar distance as I do. Olson seems to be a bit of a bomber, getting drives out there 230-240 while the rest are 210-220. It's kinda cool watching them hit similar clubs that I would attempt to hit.
 

FL4WL3SS

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The longest hitters on the LPGA average 290 yards and can easily get it out to 300.

230-240 isn't much of a bomber on the LPGA these days, but would have been 15 years ago.

Edit: Not even 15 years ago. Brittany Lincicome has been the premier long hitter on tour since 2005 averaging 270 until Lexi came in tour in 2013 (she's been in tour 7 years already, damn).

There have been a bunch of bombers joining the tour since 2016 where driving distance has exploded by 10-15 yards.
 
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cshea

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Fair enough, I was just commenting on what I've seen today which is a tiny sample size. Obviously it's freezing cold and windy which impacts driving distance.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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The longest hitters on the LPGA average 290 yards and can easily get it out to 300.

230-240 isn't much of a bomber on the LPGA these days, but would have been 15 years ago.

Edit: Not even 15 years ago. Brittany Lincicome has been the premier long hitter on tour since 2005 averaging 270 until Lexi came in tour in 2013 (she's been in tour 7 years already, damn).

There have been a bunch of bombers joining the tour since 2016 where driving distance has exploded by 10-15 yards.
LPGA driving averages: https://www.lpga.com/statistics/driving/average-driving-distance?year=2020

They're trending up but the longest has been 283-284 the past two years. Only the top 16 were 270+ last year. That's still a lot of power compared to even a few years ago.

Current leader is Bianca Pagdanganan at 284.66 and she's only 5'4". No idea if the LPGA Tour players like to round up heighwise like male athletes tend to do but that's a lot of distance from a very short person.
 

FL4WL3SS

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LPGA driving averages: https://www.lpga.com/statistics/driving/average-driving-distance?year=2020

They're trending up but the longest has been 283-284 the past two years. Only the top 16 were 270+ last year. That's still a lot of power compared to even a few years ago.

Current leader is Bianca Pagdanganan at 284.66 and she's only 5'4". No idea if the LPGA Tour players like to round up heighwise like male athletes tend to do but that's a lot of distance from a very short person.
Pound for pound might be the longest hitter on the planet, sheesh. She can mash it.
 

barbed wire Bob

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LPGA driving averages: https://www.lpga.com/statistics/driving/average-driving-distance?year=2020

They're trending up but the longest has been 283-284 the past two years. Only the top 16 were 270+ last year. That's still a lot of power compared to even a few years ago.

Current leader is Bianca Pagdanganan at 284.66 and she's only 5'4". No idea if the LPGA Tour players like to round up heighwise like male athletes tend to do but that's a lot of distance from a very short person.
Recently I was reading a book on the physics of golf and they had something about LPGA driving distances. LPGA players don’t generate high swings speeds but they impart less spin on the ball. Combine that with a higher dynamic loft and you get a ball that flies higher and rolls more. In short, what the LPGA players lack in power, they make up it by having highly efficient swings,

FWIW, I was once watching a high school girl hit her driver at the local (OC ) golf course. The girl is a petite Asian who stands about 5’3, is extremely dedicated to the game and getting professional coaching. She was at least 250 yards long. She has a beautiful swing and it was fun to watch.
 
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FL4WL3SS

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Recently I was reading a book on the physics of golf and they had something about LPGA driving distances. LPGA players don’t generate high swings speeds but they impart less spin on the ball. Combine that with a higher dynamic loft and you get a ball that flies higher and rolls more. In short, what the LPGA players lack in power, they make up it by having highly efficient swings,

FWIW, I was once watching a high school girl hit her driver at the local (OC ) golf course. The girl is a petite Asian who stands about 5’3, is extremely dedicated to the game and getting professional coaching. She was at least 250 yards long. She has a beautiful swing and it was fun to watch.
It's always better to watch the LPGA swings vs. the PGA swings. They do so many things right, whereas the men mostly have compensations in their swings.
 

jercra

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Recently I was reading a book on the physics of golf and they had something about LPGA driving distances. LPGA players don’t generate high swings speeds but they impart less spin on the ball. Combine that with a higher dynamic loft and you get a ball that flies higher and rolls more. In short, what the LPGA players lack in power, they make up it by having highly efficient swings,

FWIW, I was once watching a high school girl hit her driver at the local (OC ) golf course. The girl is a petite Asian who stands about 5’3, is extremely dedicated to the game and getting professional coaching. She was at least 250 yards long. She has a beautiful swing and it was fun to watch.
Bianca Pagdanganan was on NLU last week and said her clubhead speed is 107-108. 285 total distance right in line with what you'd expect for that clubhead speed according to Trackman:

37090
 

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
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Bianca Pagdanganan was on NLU last week and said her clubhead speed is 107-108. 285 total distance right in line with what you'd expect for that clubhead speed according to Trackman:
Right. We know a lot about maximizing driver distance now. Per clubhead speed there's a sweet spot of launch angle and spin rate. And that spin rate is lower than what equipment generated in the 90s and 00s. I'm sure LPGA Tour players are dialing in their equipment and swings to maximize distance off the tee whether they're at 95 mph or 105 mph.
 

barbed wire Bob

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Bianca Pagdanganan was on NLU last week and said her clubhead speed is 107-108. 285 total distance right in line with what you'd expect for that clubhead speed according to Trackman:

View attachment 37090
Right and good for her but that really doesn’t change my overall point. The average swing speed for the LPGA is still around 94mph and according to your table the total distance for that swing speed should be 240 yards or less, but the women hit a lot longer than that. For example, this is the Trackman data for Sei Young Kim. Her swing speed is only 94.7 mph but total distance is 269 yards which means her driving efficiency is 2.84 yards/ mph. Also look at her spin rate. It’s absurdly low which helps with the distance. Again the reason why LPGA players can do that is because they have very efficient swings.42E30711-8C49-44B4-B638-C9AF5A70EDD5.pnghttps://blog.trackmangolf.com/sei-young-kim-winner-of-the-thornberry-creek-lpga-classic/
 
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Comfortably Lomb

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I'm not quite sure what your point is here? She's not defying physics. 143 mph ball speed at 1685 rpm and 17 degree launch angle is expected to carry around 240 yards at 600' above sea level (Thornbury Creek in Hobart, WI). It is not expected to be a total distance of 240 or less. Generally rollout would be something like 265-70. What's atypical is the 1685 rpm which is extremely low but also why she's getting that kind of distance with relatively low swing speed.
 

barbed wire Bob

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I'm not quite sure what your point is here? She's not defying physics. 143 mph ball speed at 1685 rpm and 17 degree launch angle is expected to carry around 240 yards at 600' above sea level (Thornbury Creek in Hobart, WI). It is not expected to be a total distance of 240 or less. Generally rollout would be something like 265-70. What's atypical is the 1685 rpm which is extremely low but also why she's getting that kind of distance with relatively low swing speed.
Yeah, I was mis-reading the table jercra posted

Regarding the bolded, that was my point; it was the low spin that I was referring to. I’m not implying she is defying physics, I‘m saying she is using physics to her advantage. We are broadly in agreement so I don’t understand why this is such a controversial statement.
 
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jercra

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Yeah, I was mis-reading the table jercra posted

Regarding the bolded, that was my point it was the low spin that I was referring to. I’m not implying she is defying physics, I‘m saying she is using physics to her advantage. We are broadly in agreement so I don’t understand why this is such a controversial statement.
I think we are all violently agreeing. Even Bianca is at the top end of the expected distance for her clubhead speed. I didn't mean for my post to be read as disagreement, but as evidence of what you were saying. I've played with a few LPGA players and some D1 women golfers and they really impressive. The one's I've played with have such consistent swings from shot to shot.
 

jercra

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