2020 Pats: You Cam Go Your Own Way

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
12,643
Santa Monica, CA
I feel like I remember an article highlighting some of the all time highest QBR performances when the rolled the statistic out and they were comically bad games. Then ESPN just disappeared those games from the QBR data.
 

FL4WL3SS

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
12,562
Andy Brickley's potty mouth

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
20,673
Newton
It’s too bad the Herald is pretty much dead because otherwise we could have a week of “BILL RIPS JOSH” and “BAD CALLS SINK PATS” headlines on the back page to chew over.
 

Ferm Sheller

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2007
12,285
...and our weekends free in January, and don't have to go to bed late on Feb. 7th or wake up hungover the morning of the 8th. After 20 years, we need a break.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
30,175
Not going to quote the article because it's all relevant, but Belichick reinforces that Cam gives them the best chance to win and he hints at playcalling may be to blame for some of the disfunction.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2020/12/11/bill-belichick-cam-newton-jarrett-stidham-cam-newton-patriots-quarterback
Worth a read. Talks positively about Stidham, but with reservation.
That quote from BB was taken out of context. He actually said the following:

"We're trying to win the game...using pre-1906 rules."
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
7,470
Dallas
On the plus side, we get to have a stress free holiday!
We’ve got 19 problems but the Pats ain’t one.

When the Pats don’t execute perfectly they generate nothing. Kind of amazing they are 6-7 with Izzo, Meyers, Harry, and Byrd as your main receivers. That’s like cooking with stale ingredients...
 
Feb 19, 2015
4,019
We’ve got 19 problems but the Pats ain’t one.

When the Pats don’t execute perfectly they generate nothing. Kind of amazing they are 6-7 with Izzo, Meyers, Harry, and Byrd as your main receivers. That’s like cooking with stale ingredients...
I think Myers and Byrd could contribute to a good NFL offense.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
7,470
Dallas
I think Myers and Byrd could contribute to a good NFL offense.
Sure all those guys I mentioned could contribute to an NFL offense. It is a matter of where they are on the Roth chart. Byrd and Meyers strike me as WR3s. Byrd can play all 3 roles but with his speed can work as an X. Meyers is an inside guy. Harry can play all 3 positions but imo is best suited as an inside guy. Izzo is a decent depth inline guy who is better at blocking. They could all be useful pieces to some degree. You wouldn’t want them as the main course though - they are contributors not stars.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
12,643
Santa Monica, CA
Sure all those guys I mentioned could contribute to an NFL offense. It is a matter of where they are on the Roth chart. Byrd and Meyers strike me as WR3s. Byrd can play all 3 roles but with his speed can work as an X. Meyers is an inside guy. Harry can play all 3 positions but imo is best suited as an inside guy. Izzo is a decent depth inline guy who is better at blocking. They could all be useful pieces to some degree. You wouldn’t want them as the main course though - they are contributors not stars.
You certainly know this stuff better than me - but I look at Harry and in particular Izzo and see two guys who should not be anywhere on an NFL depth chart. If Izzo can block, I'm missing it on the regular TV broadcast.

Agree on the other two, but Byrd looks like a damn good #3 and maybe even decent #2.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
14,324
A legit WR1 would push Byrd and Meyers down to their appropriate spots as WR2 and WR3. Would help everyone out immensely.
 

Zincman

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
259
New London
You certainly know this stuff better than me - but I look at Harry and in particular Izzo and see two guys who should not be anywhere on an NFL depth chart. If Izzo can block, I'm missing it on the regular TV broadcast.

Agree on the other two, but Byrd looks like a damn good #3 and maybe even decent #2.
Harry should not be on an NFL roster? That's hyperbole, right? Cut him and see how fast he ends up on an NFL roster.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
72,210
Oregon
Cam can't fucking throw the ball quickly and with accuracy, tho.
Agreed. Even when he has flashes where he can ... those seem to come like a surprise.

But we've all seen by now the issues in consistency, awareness, timing and ball placement. Improving the wide receiver corps isn't going to change that.
 

DourDoerr

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 15, 2004
2,517
Berkeley, CA
Let/hip was the speculation. I remember someone like Bedard implying that the Pats were annoyed that Stidham had put himself in that position in the first place, but it quickly became clear that Cam was better. I’m starting to wonder if it was more of a “presence” thing with Cam winning the media narrative, but whatever.

I’d rather go the development route rather than a stopgap solution, but we may be looking at another mediocre vet as GM Belichick drafts another project. I think the wildcard is Bill’s view of the defense, though. I could seem them stretching with a retread if he feels it’s closer to being a top tier unit.
Thanks. I agree on the development, but also think they need a vet to push whomever it is we're trying to develop. They can learn how to prepare, etc, and the vet is there to hopefully avoid an apocalypse if the prospect flames out. If the prospect can't beat out a journeyman vet, well, that says it all.
 

McBride11

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
17,232
Charleston, SC
The WR certainly aren't great, but even having prime Randy Moss wouldn't fix this. Cam cannot throw, has no pocket awareness, takes forever to windup. His mechanics are shot. Ive never seen an NFL QB throw the ball while standing with feet parallel to the LoS instead of one foot forward and stepping into the throw. Cam looks like he is putting all his effort into these 20 yard throws that end up at the WR feet.

BB has forgotten more about football than I will ever know, but I just don't understand the downside of rolling Stid the remaining games. And those intimating he 'may lose the locker room' are silly. The greatest coach in NFL history is going to lose the locker room?
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
The WR certainly aren't great, but even having prime Randy Moss wouldn't fix this. Cam cannot throw, has no pocket awareness, takes forever to windup. His mechanics are shot. Ive never seen an NFL QB throw the ball while standing with feet parallel to the LoS instead of one foot forward and stepping into the throw. Cam looks like he is putting all his effort into these 20 yard throws that end up at the WR feet.

BB has forgotten more about football than I will ever know, but I just don't understand the downside of rolling Stid the remaining games. And those intimating he 'may lose the locker room' are silly. The greatest coach in NFL history is going to lose the locker room?
Tom Jackson likes this post.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
7,470
Dallas
You certainly know this stuff better than me - but I look at Harry and in particular Izzo and see two guys who should not be anywhere on an NFL depth chart. If Izzo can block, I'm missing it on the regular TV broadcast.

Agree on the other two, but Byrd looks like a damn good #3 and maybe even decent #2.
He is an average blocker. I think he is an average TE3/4 so he might be able to find the bottom of someone else's roster. I'm not lighting a candle at night pining for Izzo as a starter next year. I believe a loaded team like the Titans would scoop Harry up. The Ravens might want him too - they ask their receivers to block more than the average bear. Cleveland and 49ers might have fun with him too. He's not too far removed for someone who would want to give him another chance.

A legit WR1 would push Byrd and Meyers down to their appropriate spots as WR2 and WR3. Would help everyone out immensely.
Completely agree.

Seriously, put Aaron Rodgers, Allen Robinson, and TJ Hockenson in the lineup and this team would be really good.
Ok but that's the situation they are in. It isn't pretty to need 1-2 top end receiving weapons when you have none. It sucks that they currently don't have an inline TE who can catch worth a damn but, again, that's reality. Cam has some warts and personally I want them to draft a top 4 QB in this years draft but have you looked at the FA QBs? I'd rather roll the dice again with Cam who would get an actual off-season and hopefully better skilled position guys vs Fitz. YMMV there. If not Cam, who do you like? I know I just joked about Fitz but I wouldn't hate him as a bridge QB IF they draft someone like Trey Lance.

Draft wise this is another year where there are plenty of exciting WRs, a few good TEs, a unique big-WR/TE weapon in Pitts, and 4-8 QBs who could see their names called day 1 or 2.
FA wise WR is loaded this year too.

Bill tried to sign Humphries to 10m+, Jared Cooks to a big deal. If he doesn't upgrade the skilled players with at least multiple middle-class FAs I would be shocked.

You can't run a football team without investing in WR/TE whether it be through FA, trades, the draft, UDFA, or a combination of those (or all of the above).
 

djbayko

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
16,680
Los Angeles, CA
BB has forgotten more about football than I will ever know, but I just don't understand the downside of rolling Stid the remaining games. And those intimating he 'may lose the locker room' are silly. The greatest coach in NFL history is going to lose the locker room?
I also think this idea is hilarious because BB has made a career out of making unpopular moves and telling everyone to fucking deal with it.
 

McBride11

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
17,232
Charleston, SC
I also think this idea is hilarious because BB has made a career out of making unpopular moves and telling everyone to fucking deal with it.
Clearly cutting leadership vets like Milloy cost BB all credibilty. Pats got smoked by Buff the next week. That 2003 season really turned out terribly.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
22,109
Tom Jackson was maybe the first to utter the preposterous idea that BB had lost a locker room. I believe the quote was “everyone hated him.” That was after the 31-0 loss that started the 2003 season.
I was being sarcastic.
“They hate their coach”
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
72,210
Oregon
As if N'Keal Harry didn't have enough to think about, his trainer apparently decided to open his mouth

“We’ve got a new quarterback. We’ve got to put some of that (expletive) on Cam. Cam hasn’t been the most accurate this year. Like if (N’Keal) had Tom Brady, Tom Brady would’ve fed him. But we’re back there with Cam and Cam’s getting acclimated to the offense, too. …
“It’s a big deal coming from Tom Brady to Cam Newton. … That’s one of Cam Newton’s biggest issues is mechanics.”
Whitfield says he was misquoted.


https://nesn.com/2020/12/nkeal-harry-responds-to-trainers-comments-about-patriots-qb-cam-newton/
 

EddieYost

has a special friend in GHoff
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
9,078
NH
We was ahead of Julian Edelman on the depth chart to start the year? Oh ok...
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
12,643
Santa Monica, CA
As if N'Keal Harry didn't have enough to think about, his trainer apparently decided to open his mouth

“We’ve got a new quarterback. We’ve got to put some of that (expletive) on Cam. Cam hasn’t been the most accurate this year. Like if (N’Keal) had Tom Brady, Tom Brady would’ve fed him. But we’re back there with Cam and Cam’s getting acclimated to the offense, too. …
“It’s a big deal coming from Tom Brady to Cam Newton. … That’s one of Cam Newton’s biggest issues is mechanics.”
Whitfield says he was misquoted.


https://nesn.com/2020/12/nkeal-harry-responds-to-trainers-comments-about-patriots-qb-cam-newton/
Yeah, Harry looked awesome last year with Brady throwing, so this all makes tons of sense.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
45,606
Gilmore has a torn quad per Ian Rapoport, should be fine for next season.
 

CoffeeNerdness

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2012
5,692
Sounds a bit like a guy who's started their last game for 2020.

"Dear Patriot Nation, I will be the first to tell you that this year has been unacceptable in more ways than one!!" Newton wrote. "And the standard has been and always have been set; and unfortunately we (I) did not live up to what that standard was at all times or consistently enough!! With that being said the answer(s) is (are) in the locker room and one thing I do know about this bunch is that this locker room is filled with guys who want to be a part of the solution including me!!

https://www.nfl.com/news/cam-newton-i-did-not-live-up-to-patriots-standard
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
10,937
Generally speaking a torn quad tendon isn’t very good news, as bad as an ACL or worse. Victor Oladipo still isn’t fully back from his in the NBA.

Sounds like it wasn’t a full rupture, so thats good at least. But if he needs surgery it must at least be a pretty high grade partial tear. The devil is in the details and if it’s only partially torn it may not be too bad.

But not often you hear anyone downplay a quad tendon tear.... that’s a bad injury, similar to an Achilles.
 
Last edited:

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
57,695
I assumed ‘torn quadriceps’ meant the muscle, not a tendon. Is that wrong?
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
10,937
I assumed ‘torn quadriceps’ meant the muscle, not a tendon. Is that wrong?
Very rare to need surgery for a quad muscle tear. Maybe a hematoma evacuation if anything.

More likely at least a decent portion of his quad tendon ripped off the patella and they need to reattach.
 

j44thor

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
9,645
Joe Flacco threw more TDs than Cam Newton this season.

What I do wonder is what Cam looks like in practice. Either his practice doesn't translate to the field or they were blinded by his "rushing" ability because on the field he looks like a poor mans Ryan Finley. His mechanics are some of the worst I've seen from a QB and his decision making is non-existent. Add in zero touch and abysmal accuracy and you get 2020 Cam Newton. 2020 Patriots might as well just run the wildcat 100% of the time because their QB play was the equivalent of that if not worse.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
12,643
Santa Monica, CA
This is pretty amazing...playing around on Stathead football just now...there are all of four quarterbacks since 1990 who have started at least 10 games in a season and thrown fewer touchdown passes than Cam Newton has this year.

Out of EIGHT HUNDRED AND TWENTY-TWO 10+ start seasons since 1990...FOUR have thrown fewer touchdown passes than 2020 Cam Newton.

(BTW: 1993 Mark Rypien; 1995 Trent Dilfer; 2000 Akili Smith; 2010 Jimmy Clausen)
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
39,585
This is pretty amazing...playing around on Stathead football just now...there are all of four quarterbacks since 1990 who have started at least 10 games in a season and thrown fewer touchdown passes than Cam Newton has this year.

Out of EIGHT HUNDRED AND TWENTY-TWO 10+ start seasons since 1990...FOUR have thrown fewer touchdown passes than 2020 Cam Newton.

(BTW: 1993 Mark Rypien; 1995 Trent Dilfer; 2000 Akili Smith; 2010 Jimmy Clausen)
Akili Smith and Jimmy Clausen. Now THAT's great company...yikes
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2006
14,177
Tuukka's refugee camp
Not including his rushing TDs is being misleading. Not that he was good but it's a major component of his game and helped made him somewhat passable sometimes (how's that for a qualifier?) even as his passing deteriorated.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
12,134
Not including his rushing TDs is being misleading. Not that he was good but it's a major component of his game and helped made him somewhat passable sometimes (how's that for a qualifier?) even as his passing deteriorated.
Sure. But as far as throwing the ball - kind of a big thing for a QB - it's not like we could just assume if he didnt run it for a TD, that he would have thrown it. Theres a strong possibility that he wouldnt even convert 50% of those rushing TDs into passing TDs. It's a lot harder to throw in the redzone than the rest of the field. If anything, his rushing TDs emphasis his failure as a passer even more.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
12,643
Santa Monica, CA
Sure. But as far as throwing the ball - kind of a big thing for a QB - it's not like we could just assume if he didnt run it for a TD, that he would have thrown it. Theres a strong possibility that he wouldnt even convert 50% of those rushing TDs into passing TDs. It's a lot harder to throw in the redzone than the rest of the field. If anything, his rushing TDs emphasis his failure as a passer even more.
Also, teams have running backs that could probably run it in on many of those plays. I'd prefer a quarterback who can actually throw the ball.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
39,585
I don’t give Cam that much credit for the rushing TDs. Harris would probably convert most of them anyways.

Having 4 TDs in 10 starts in 2020 NFL is flat out laughable. And sad. For us.