2020 Pats: Roster & Beyond (non-QB edition)

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
24,630
Hingham, MA
Edit: meh I can’t get images to work.

Agreed. Gilmore has earned every cent. Remember how bad he looked at first? Screwing up every bunch formation? Amazing how it just takes a little time to get on the same page.
First 4 weeks of 2017 were such a tire fire. D turned it around from there... up until the last game.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
24,630
Hingham, MA
They were 31st in defensive DVOA in 2017. That defense was bad all year long, it improved from the historically atrocious first month, but it never quite "turned around".
128 points allowed first 4. 32 ppg. 168 allowed last 12. 14 ppg. 14 ppg is elite. They did so much damage the first 4 weeks that it hurt their overall performance. But they were a good D the last 12 games plus 2 playoff games.
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
12,833
Mansfield MA
128 points allowed first 4. 32 ppg. 168 allowed last 12. 14 ppg. 14 ppg is elite. They did so much damage the first 4 weeks that it hurt their overall performance. But they were a good D the last 12 games plus 2 playoff games.
The O carried a lot of water for the D that year. It was kind of like the inverse of last year. They gave up a crapton of yardage (31st in yards allowed per drive!) but the opposing offenses had the worst starting field position by a full yard (which is a crazy amount) and the O had the second-lowest turnover rate in the league. It was a bad D that was awful early and in the SB and had a stretch where it looked acceptable, in large part because of the O and because they played a weak schedule.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
38,600
Bedard claims it was a secret holdout by Gilmore that forced the Pats hand. Implies he has inside knowledge and that Gilmore’s appearance/disappearance on the injury report was no coincidence.
A lot has been made of “hold-ins” given that the league punishes true holdouts very harshly now. Cook/Kamara being the prime examples this offseason.

I guess what is nice about this method is that it seems to lead to a bit less of a media circus a la Lev Bell.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
24,630
Hingham, MA
A lot has been made of “hold-ins” given that the league punishes true holdouts very harshly now. Cook/Kamara being the prime examples this offseason.

I guess what is nice about this method is that it seems to lead to a bit less of a media circus a la Lev Bell.
Man Lev Bell. Talk about a holdout that backfired. Dude is now irrelevant
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I'm kinda tired, am I missing a reference? 3%?



Also:
View: https://twitter.com/DougKyed/status/1305663045868417024
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I mean Folk. He can't come back using the PS loophole 2 weeks in a row.
Now I’m confused. The Tweet said Folk was going to PS. I thought the rule was as you just said, which would mean that the Tweet couldn’t mean that Folk could kick in SEA. But your previous post said that the Tweet did mean that Folk would kick in SEA.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
41,563
Now I’m confused. The Tweet said Folk was going to PS. I thought the rule was as you just said, which would mean that the Tweet couldn’t mean that Folk could kick in SEA. But your previous post said that the Tweet did mean that Folk would kick in SEA.
There's new rule for this season that you can move someone off PS for week and not put them on active roster. They did that with Folk.

The downside is that if you revert that player back to PS you cannot do that again the next week. Therefore, if they want Folk to kick in week 2 he has to be on the 53 man roster.

Additionally, according to the new CBA, a team can carry up to 55 players on its roster during the week -- up from 53 in past years -- by elevating one or two players from its practice squad before 4 p.m. ET on the day before that team's game. This will allow teams a larger pool from which to select their 47 or 48 game-day active players. Any player elevated from the practice squad for this purpose will immediately revert to his team's practice squad on the day after the game.

No player may be activated under this rule for more than two games per season, either regular-season or postseason games. If a player has already been elevated twice under this rule, and the team wants to add him to the roster, it must terminate his practice-squad contract and sign him to an NFL contract, as has been the case with practice-squad players in years past.
Per tweets from Pats beat guys, this new rule also says you can't do it 2 weeks in row. Can't find those tweets right now.
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
There's new rule for this season that you can move someone off PS for week and not put them on active roster. They did that with Folk.

The downside is that if you revert that player back to PS you cannot do that again the next week. Therefore, if they want Folk to kick in week 2 he has to be on the 53 man roster.



Per quotes from Pats guys, this new rule also says you can't do it 2 weeks in row.
Right. But the Tweet said Folk was reverting back To the PS. So he can’t kick in SEA.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
41,563
Right. But the Tweet said Folk was reverting back To the PS. So he can’t kick in SEA.
Yes. If they want him to kick then they have to add him to the REGULAR roster, not use the rule they used in week 1 for "Extra" players.

CAVEAT: I can't find reference to the "2 weeks in a row" thing right now.

EDIT: here it is:

The player doesn’t have to be elevated from the PS to the main roster for the move. This can happen with up to two practice squad players per week, but the same player can’t be elevated two weeks in a row. A player is only able to be elevated twice per season. To be put activated a third time requires the player to be signed to the regular roster.
 

Over Guapo Grande

panty merchant
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2005
1,935
Worcester
From what I read/understand... a 3rd callup/2nd in a row would mean that the player would be subject to normal practice squad waiver claims. How does this work with vested vets?
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
3,945
around the way
I wonder if Bill is going to swap kickers every week to exploit the PS rule
This is exactly what he's going to do, unless one forces his hand with some kind of amazing or catastrophic performance.

He's using the flexibility that this option gives him to tweak around the margin, as he hasn't made a decision on either guy yet.

He doesn't have to decide on a kicker until after week 4. He can do each guy twice, alternating.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
17,004
If he was, I'd rather have Folk this week in what should be the tougher game.
He's using the flexibility that this option gives him to tweak around the margin, as he hasn't made a decision on either guy yet.
If he's concerned about Rohrwasser, he could also just sign somebody for a week to re-set. There are players out there.... Matt Gay, Kai Forbath, Santos, etc.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
3,945
around the way
If he's concerned about Rohrwasser, he could also just sign somebody for a week to re-set. There are players out there.... Matt Gay, Kai Forbath, Santos, etc.
I haven't followed the concern over Rohrwasser, except that rumors were that he had a meh camp (and the tattoo stuff I guess). If we have learned anything from BFB, it's that he will take advantage of whatever the rules are. The practice squad olympics allows him to dick around with the margins of the roster with positions that he hasn't made decisions on yet. It only stands out because it's the kicker. I'm kind of surprised that they haven't had Gay in yet.
 
Last edited:

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
27,060
This is exactly what he's going to do, unless one forces his hand with some kind of amazing or catastrophic performance.

He's using the flexibility that this option gives him to tweak around the margin, as he hasn't made a decision on either guy yet.

He doesn't have to decide on a kicker until after week 4. He can do each guy twice, alternating.
So he's making Folk active for the winnable games?
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
3,945
around the way
So he's making Folk active for the winnable games?
No, he's alternating. You can't bring the same guy back in successive weeks or the same guy more than twice.

Folk, Rohrwasser, Folk, Rohrwasser.

If he can't make up his mind before week 5, he'll be out of options by then anyway (at least with those two guys).
 

SMU_Sox

loves his fluffykins
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
6,643
Dallas
Edit: OBJ - let's discuss if he is a reasonable trade target. His contract is team friendly IF he isn't cooked and there is no dead cap to cutting him in 2021+:

34212

Personally I prefer getting Allen Robinson (@Kenny F'ing Powers OUR BOY!!) in FA this off-season but if he's another Randy Moss in Oakland kind of a guy he would really elevate us.

Reason for edit: Francessa was the original source behind the tweet. I apologize for not catching that.
 
Last edited:

Soxy

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2008
5,605
OBJ is on the auction block. His contract is reasonable IF he isn't cooked and there is no dead cap to cutting him in 2021+:

View attachment 34212

Personally I prefer getting Allen Robinson (@Kenny F'ing Powers OUR BOY!!) in FA this off-season but if he's another Randy Moss in Oakland kind of a guy he would really elevate us.
Speak of the devil:
View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1305878809418268672?s=21


For those who can’t read embedded tweets, Allen Robinson took everything Chicago Bears related off of his twitter and instagram.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
33,178
Hartford, CT
Sounds like Robinson is in an extension tussle.

SMU, what leads you to believe OBJ is on the block (any more than any good/great player is, that is for something other than a king’s ransom)? All I am seeing from a quick perusal of Twitter is that Mike Francesa tweeted that the Browns are looking to trade OBJ for ‘a lot.’ Seems thin.
 

SMU_Sox

loves his fluffykins
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
6,643
Dallas
You got me - the only sources I have are twitter rumblings. There have been rumblings for 2 years now though. If he's a locker room cancer there I could see why the Browns would want to move on and the Patriots think they have the locker room to make him a good soldier. Reminds me a bit of a Moss in Oakland situation honestly but again I am not sure if he is cooked or not.

Let me amend my original statement. He may or may not be on the block but if the Browns continue to stink I wouldn't be surprised if they traded vets for draft picks.

Edit: I did amend my original post.

If he is someone who becomes available later at least let's keep in mind his contract is team friendly with no dead money in 2021.
 
Last edited:

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
33,178
Hartford, CT
Got it - wasn’t playing gotcha, was genuinely curious what you were seeing.

Anyways, I’d prefer Robinson, much less of a chance we’ll see weekly memos about not getting the ball enough.
 
Last edited:

ehaz

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2007
2,838
I love Allen Robinson but either would be great. Having another WR that can actually create separation and win one on one would be incredible for this team. Harry is never going to be that guy.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
3,945
around the way
I love Allen Robinson but either would be great. Having another WR that can actually create separation and win one on one would be incredible for this team. Harry is never going to be that guy.
I think that Harry may eventually be a good slot/Z but he's just not an X.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
35,412
I think that Harry may eventually be a good slot/Z but he's just not an X.
Yeah, I think Harry’s realistic production target is, ironically, as a Mohammed Sanu type slot WR. Wouldn’t be great value for a 1st, obviously, but would still be useful.
 

SMU_Sox

loves his fluffykins
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
6,643
Dallas

Ben Allbright who actually has good sources say slow your roll SMU_Sox ;)

Source tells me report of Browns actively shopping Odell Beckham Jr is false.
 

Seels

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
3,247
NH
I'd rather go after Robinson. OBJ has been more hype than play for a while. Robinson is younger, at least as good, and without the drama.
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
6,670
Westwood MA
Yeah, I think Harry’s realistic production target is, ironically, as a Mohammed Sanu type slot WR. Wouldn’t be great value for a 1st, obviously, but would still be useful.
What's done is done and hindsight is 20/20, but can anyone here realistically say where he should have been drafted?

Is it a done deal that he's not a first round talent or is there still hope he'll blossom?

Just curious is all.