2020 Pats: General/Non-QB Off-Season Discussion

Jimbodandy

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Here are the top 5 QB contracts for next season. I am not seeing Tom accept a number below the top 5 given he had a contract that prevented the team from using the franchise tag on him next season.

1 $35M (Wilson)
2 $34M (Roethlisberger)
3 $33.5M (Rodgers)
4 $32M (Wentz)
5 $30M (Ryan)
I have no insight into Brady's mindset, but isn't it possible that his aversion to a franchise deal was more about years than dollars? Isn't his brand built around longevity? I'm wondering whether a 2-3 year offer doesn't need to be accompanied by the highest AAV because years is what he wants in the public record. Is that crazy?
 

Jerry’s Curl

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I think the most likely scenario is the Patriots sign Brady to a one year deal and make a couple of big splashes on offense via free agency and trades. They have sucked drafting the last few years, so why not trade some of their top picks? Perhaps Philly would part with one of their TEs? They need a stud at the WR position. Is Beckham a possibility? Would they reconsider Antonio Brown?
 

Harry Hooper

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Brady getting the franchise tag off the table was all about securing one last multi-year contract. He's not signing a 1-year deal with the Pats, unless he has no multi-year offers.
 

heavyde050

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The Patriots traded JG in October of 2017. That year the Pats went to the Super Bowl but lost. The following year they went to the Super Bowl and won. This year they made the playoffs and lost in the WC round.

Brady hasn’t won two SB since the JG trade. He’s BEEN to two but won “only” one.
Brady was a man possessed in that SB loss.
 

heavyde050

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I cannot even fathom what Jimmy G has to do with the Patriots 2020 offseason, so clearly I have the right people on ignore.
That is why I have such a tough time rooting for the 49ers. Many Pats fans have this loving feeling for a former Pats backup that literally did basically nothing (he started two games in 2016) for the Patriots unless you give him credit for motivating Brady.
I mean where are all the posts about Jacoby B if we are bringing up Jimmy G.
 

jsinger121

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I think the most likely scenario is the Patriots sign Brady to a one year deal and make a couple of big splashes on offense via free agency and trades. They have sucked drafting the last few years, so why not trade some of their top picks? Perhaps Philly would part with one of their TEs? They need a stud at the WR position. Is Beckham a possibility? Would they reconsider Antonio Brown?
This is basically putting a band aid over a massive cut. They can’t afford to give away draft picks anymore for high priced talent.
 

Jerry’s Curl

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Brady getting the franchise tag off the table was all about securing one last multi-year contract. He's not signing a 1-year deal with the Pats, unless he has no multi-year offers.
I can’t see any team giving Brady a multiple year offer. Would Tom even consider starting in a new system with new coaches? Would a team want to accommodate a 43 year old QB besides the Patriots? It ultimately comes down to what Robert Kraft wants. If he wants TB12 back, he will be back.
 

heavyde050

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I guess for some folks that was a moment where they get like the Pats made a wrong decision that is now about to bite them in the ass. A poster pointed out that NFW because Brady has won two SBs since then. While I agree with the “not a bad move to keep Brady” line of thinking, there was a reasonably substantial factual error in the post that needed correcting.
It wasn’t a bad move. Jimmy G has played one full season since the trade. I get the 49ers had a great year this year, but it wasn’t solely because of Jimmy G. Their defense improved tremendously, and their running game is sick.
I don’t think Jimmy G does any better than Brady with the Pats weapons.
 

BigSoxFan

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This is basically putting a band aid over a massive cut. They can’t afford to give away draft picks anymore for high priced talent.
Agreed. While we have 12 picks in 2020 draft (before the Cincy penalty), 7 of them are in Rounds 6 and 7. Hopefully the penalty comes from that bunch.

They really need to hit on many of their earlier picks. While every draft is important, the 2020 one feels really important.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Plus we are going to lose a draft pick or picks over the Do Your Job video. They should rename it Lose a Draft Pick.
Well, given their recent draft picks, maybe that is a good thing!

This thread is a joy. In addition to all the angst over trading away a better QB to keep Tom Brady and that there is going to be a fallout between the coach and owner, we need a scenario where Jonathan Kraft and Ernie Adams square off this week and have to be separated by team staff (who doesn't have Ernie money here?). You want a worst case scenario - that's it.
 

Jimbodandy

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Well, given their recent draft picks, maybe that is a good thing!

This thread is a joy. In addition to all the angst over trading away a better QB to keep Tom Brady and that there is going to be a fallout between the coach and owner, we need a scenario where Jonathan Kraft and Ernie Adams square off this week and have to be separated by team staff (who doesn't have Ernie money here?). You want a worst case scenario - that's it.
I like the way you think, jefe.
 

Captaincoop

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I can’t see any team giving Brady a multiple year offer. Would Tom even consider starting in a new system with new coaches? Would a team want to accommodate a 43 year old QB besides the Patriots? It ultimately comes down to what Robert Kraft wants. If he wants TB12 back, he will be back.
And that's terrifying, because Bob Kraft is not the one we want making that decision.

I could definitely see the Chargers signing Brady to a 2 year deal to help sell tickets at their new stadium. They have no fans and no brand and need to sell a lot of tickets and sponsorships.
 

E5 Yaz

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I think people are fooling themselves, and maybe the Chargers are too, if they think NFL fans in LA are going to fill seats for a 43-year-old QB
 

CreedBratton

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I watch A LOT of NFL football. And to my eye, Brady is still better than the vast majority of QBs in the league. Bolster the OL, get him a real WR and pass catching TE, and LFG.
The problem is Bill has never gotten Tom a real WR. Outside of Cooks, who isn’t even that good, when has Bill gone all in on a big time WR? Thinking this is the year it finally happens is foolish.

and yes I know Randy Moss but he was a head case who everyone thought was finished. I’m talking about going all out to get an OBJ type the last few years when the team desperately needed a top WR. Like imagine if Brady has Julio or Hopkins or Michael Thomas. The offense needs a game changer badly.
 

PedroKsBambino

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The problem is Bill has never gotten Tom a real WR. Outside of Cooks, who isn’t even that good, when has Bill gone all in on a big time WR? Thinking this is the year it finally happens is foolish.

and yes I know Randy Moss but he was a head case who everyone thought was finished. I’m talking about going all out to get an OBJ type the last few years when the team desperately needed a top WR. Like imagine if Brady has Julio or Hopkins or Michael Thomas. The offense needs a game changer badly.
You’ve defined a really small set of guys. But interesting to note that OBJ totally failwd as an acquisition for the team who did get him...and I say thy as someone who wonders of Pats should indeed invest more at WR
 

Eddie Jurak

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I agree with you that there are a lot of holes. The offense wasn't good enough this year, either running the ball or passing. They can't afford to re-sign or replace more than one or two of Brady, McCourty, Thuney, and Van Noy/Collins, and they're losing major depth at IOL, DL, LB, and WR. Some of the solutions can be internal - maybe Froholdt / Cajuste step on the OL, Harry improves, Bentley steps into a big role at LB, etc. But there's a lot to do for Belichick the GM.

Where we differ is I question the whole idea of blowing it up for an NFL team. Yeah, tank in the NBA, sure, you've only got five starters and a superstar makes a huge impact. But football, with 22 starters and a bunch more contributors, you need a lot more pieces. Getting rid of effective players just means there are more holes to fill.

To be clear: I'm not on board with mortgaging the future to load up for a last run, either. Just make smart decisions, develop the young guys, hit on some picks, and make some smart budget FA signings (where they've quietly had a ton of failures of late). It's not high-percentage, but neither is winning the Super Bowl.
I guess I just think that a lot needs to happen to make this team better next year. One way to go after that would be to deal draft picks, and to sign players who require commitments of future cap room, thus closing off options going forward. And betting once more on the declining core of Brady, Edelman, McCourty, Chung, Hightower, etc.

They went into this year a pretty old team by NFL standards. I don't think spending any future in order to try to run in place for another year or 2 makes all that much sense.

On the other hand, if they have the resources available to actually imprve the team from this year's version, then OK. That just feels like an incredibly tall order for a team whose OL is shaky and about to lose its best player, that has no impact receivers short of an aging injury prone guy, and a defense that can't stop the run, has some great corners but is thin or aging at safety, etc.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Edelman, 2015-2018, average season: 12 g, 118 targets, 78 rec (65.6% catch rate), 883 yds, 11.4 ypc, 5 td
Edelman, 2019 season: 16 g, 153 targets, 100 rec (65.4% catch rate), 1117 yds, 11.2 ypc, 6 td

I see no difference between Edelman of 2019 and Edelman the three seasons prior to that (he didn't play in 2017 due to injury). His numbers are virtually identical.

This year he was playing really banged up the latter portion of the season. Which may be more likely due to age, but at 34 next year I think he still has good football left in him.
Edelman had a good year but really tailed off at the end when banged up. And being able to play at a high level through the physical toll of an entire season is one of the biggest concerns with aging players, so I don't think its something we can just write off as an unlucky thing. I agree that he has some good football left if he comes back (he played great at times this year) but I don't think its reasonable to expect him to be as good as he was at his peak, especially in the latter part of the season and playoffs.

And yes, older players may decline, but younger players develop. Guys like Winovich, Bentley, Butler, Cowart, Harris, Meyers, Harry, Michel, Wynn, Wise, and Williams likely will be better next year.
Its true that younger guys always develop and improve. But if almost all of your best players are in the older and declining category, then its unlikely that improvement from younger guys is going to fully offset those declines. The defense was the strength of the 2019 team and its built around a bunch of 30+ (or very soon to be 30) guys in the back seven.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I like the way you think, jefe.
Like most other people on this planet, I have no idea what is going to happen next. Anything is possible but worrying about Belichick going to the Giants for nostalgia's sake (as much as the NY media has and will stoke that storyline) or any other franchise seems as likely as the Patriots discovering a game-changing player as a street FA.

From what we know of the guy, he is big on structure and those within it "doing their job". If he goes elsewhere, he is going to have to recreate that (if you think he can do that with the wave of his hand, you likely haven't worked in any sort of organization before) but he is also going to have a different set of expectations than he currently has in New England. Maybe that is a challenge for him but I can also see it being a deterrent.

Also, Bob Kraft is many things but he didn't stumble into his success. His track record of owning this franchise has shown that he is ok ceding power to those who work from him. He has to see what everyone else does - that the Brady decision is not obvious or easy. Does anyone have any firm, sourced reporting that Kraft is willing to sacrifice his HOF coach to get another year or two out of his aged, HOF QB?
 

lexrageorge

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The problem is Bill has never gotten Tom a real WR. Outside of Cooks, who isn’t even that good, when has Bill gone all in on a big time WR? Thinking this is the year it finally happens is foolish.

and yes I know Randy Moss but he was a head case who everyone thought was finished. I’m talking about going all out to get an OBJ type the last few years when the team desperately needed a top WR. Like imagine if Brady has Julio or Hopkins or Michael Thomas. The offense needs a game changer badly.
I think this meme is yet another one that gets thrown out there but lacks context.

Belichick took a chance on Moss, but he did it knowing there was a real likelihood of him returning to be one of the most dangerous WR threats in the league. And Belichick was even willing to extend Moss prior to the start of the 2010 season. The Pats also brought in Welker and Stallworth for 2007 as well.

Starting in 2010, the Pats had Gronk and Hernandez (and Welker), so the need for a big time WR was mitigated. By 2011 it was clear that Gronk was going to turn into a big time pass catcher. Still in 2012, the Pats signed Brandon Lloyd who was just a season removed from 1400 receiving yards. In 2013, the Pats drafted Dobson and Boyce and brought in Thompkins (UDFA) and Amendola. In 2014, they signed LaFell to complement Edelman and Gronk. In 2016, they brought in Chris Hogan and drafted Malcolm Mitchell. Cooks had nearly 1200 receiving yards each of the prior 2 seasons and was considered one of the better young receivers out there. In 2018 it was Josh Gordon. And just this past season he brought in the guy that was widely considered to the league's premier receiver in Brown.

A lot of these guys didn't work out for whatever reason, Brown being the most recent and most notable. But it wasn't for a lack of trying on Bill's part.
 

Jimbodandy

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Like most other people on this planet, I have no idea what is going to happen next. Anything is possible but worrying about Belichick going to the Giants for nostalgia's sake (as much as the NY media has and will stoke that storyline) or any other franchise seems as likely as the Patriots discovering a game-changing player as a street FA.

From what we know of the guy, he is big on structure and those within it "doing their job". If he goes elsewhere, he is going to have to recreate that (if you think he can do that with the wave of his hand, you likely haven't worked in any sort of organization before) but he is also going to have a different set of expectations than he currently has in New England. Maybe that is a challenge for him but I can also see it being a deterrent.

Also, Bob Kraft is many things but he didn't stumble into his success. His track record of owning this franchise has shown that he is ok ceding power to those who work from him. He has to see what everyone else does - that the Brady decision is not obvious or easy. Does anyone have any firm, sourced reporting that Kraft is willing to sacrifice his HOF coach to get another year or two out of his aged, HOF QB?
Well in all honesty, the only time that I hear about any of these nonsense conspiracy theories is when one of my friends or coworkers mentions it in passing, because they heard it on talk radio, ESPN, or local news (relatively new phenomenon there).

I see no reason why Kraft, Belichick, or Brady inherently want to fuck up a good thing. They won the Super Bowl last year, and this year's "abysmal failure of a year" was a 12-4 team that made a few personnel decisions that didn't work out. The armageddonism is frankly embarrassing.
 

Harry Hooper

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Also, Bob Kraft is many things but he didn't stumble into his success. His track record of owning this franchise has shown that he is ok ceding power to those who work from him. He has to see what everyone else does - that the Brady decision is not obvious or easy. Does anyone have any firm, sourced reporting that Kraft is willing to sacrifice his HOF coach to get another year or two out of his aged, HOF QB?

It's worth remembering that Kraft specifically recruited BB, gave up assets to get him, and handed him the keys to football ops.
 

lexrageorge

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If Belichick goes into Kraft's office (both Robert and Jonathan) and tells them "Look, from a football perspective, I want Brady as my QB in 2020. Stidham has a ways to go, and anyone else available out there is likely to not be significantly better. I didn't do a great job getting him a supporting cast on offense. However, he's also going to be 43, and we have a lot of holes to fill as well. My cap guy tells me we can allocate this much for him in 2020 and 2021. I'm willing to do a bit more, but not much. But if he wants to be the highest paid QB in the league next year, there's no way we can fit him in and field a competitive team.".... I have to believe the Krafts say "understood" and do their best to work out a new deal, but also respect Belichick's parameters and would be willing to wish Brady well if moving on is the only recourse. I've seen zero evidence outside ESPN that the Krafts will try to overrule Belichick.

OTOH, if Belichick goes into the office and says "Look Bob, we have to move on from Brady, and 2020 is the year to do it.", it could be a much more contentious discussion. I *think* the Krafts would still side with BB, but I'd be less willing to put real $$$ on it if that was the case.
 

BaseballJones

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Edelman had a good year but really tailed off at the end when banged up.
Well....yeah.

And being able to play at a high level through the physical toll of an entire season is one of the biggest concerns with aging players, so I don't think its something we can just write off as an unlucky thing. I agree that he has some good football left if he comes back (he played great at times this year) but I don't think its reasonable to expect him to be as good as he was at his peak, especially in the latter part of the season and playoffs.
He may tail off some but if he's healthy (which to me is the concern going into 2020) he will still be a really good NFL receiver.

Its true that younger guys always develop and improve. But if almost all of your best players are in the older and declining category, then its unlikely that improvement from younger guys is going to fully offset those declines. The defense was the strength of the 2019 team and its built around a bunch of 30+ (or very soon to be 30) guys in the back seven.
Yes true. But they also added some quality young guys. No question they will need to shore up some positions going forward and inject some youth to this franchise. 100%.
 

RedOctober3829

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The hyperbole of the team is done is a bit premature. If they can acquire a WR that allows Edelman to not be doubled every time it improves not 1 but 3 spots. The upgrade at that WR position, Edelman doesn't get doubled, and White gets a more favorable matchup. Add in even an average TE and the offense looks a heck of a lot better.
 

BaseballJones

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Agreed. While we have 12 picks in 2020 draft (before the Cincy penalty), 7 of them are in Rounds 6 and 7. Hopefully the penalty comes from that bunch.

They really need to hit on many of their earlier picks. While every draft is important, the 2020 one feels really important.
I agree that this draft is really important, but I feel that the 2019 draft is going to turn out to be a good one. I think Harry is going to be a really good NFL player (though maybe not quite the super stud we were hoping for). Williams already looks like a legit NFL defensive back. Winovich is going to be, IMO, a Ninkovich type - a guy with a high motor who just makes plays. He was much stronger in the first half of the season compared to the second, but that was true for basically everyone on the team. He's a good football player. Damien Harris, well, who knows, but I think he might very well end up being a lot better than Michel and maybe we will see Harris break out next year. The OL guys - Cajuste and Froholdt - both got a redshirt season so we don't know, but they have potential. Bailey was excellent this year. And I think Stidham at worst will be a capable NFL backup, which every team needs.
 

BaseballJones

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Here are the top 5 QB contracts for next season. I am not seeing Tom accept a number below the top 5 given he had a contract that prevented the team from using the franchise tag on him next season.

1 $35M (Wilson)
2 $34M (Roethlisberger)
3 $33.5M (Rodgers)
4 $32M (Wentz)
5 $30M (Ryan)
When has EVER demanded top dollars? And if he's coming back for another season, the ONLY reason he's coming back is for another shot at ring #7. Not to say that he'll play for peanuts, but he's smart enough to know that if he demands top 5 money, he's not getting the help he needs around him to get that ring.
 

BigSoxFan

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I agree that this draft is really important, but I feel that the 2019 draft is going to turn out to be a good one. I think Harry is going to be a really good NFL player (though maybe not quite the super stud we were hoping for). Williams already looks like a legit NFL defensive back. Winovich is going to be, IMO, a Ninkovich type - a guy with a high motor who just makes plays. He was much stronger in the first half of the season compared to the second, but that was true for basically everyone on the team. He's a good football player. Damien Harris, well, who knows, but I think he might very well end up being a lot better than Michel and maybe we will see Harris break out next year. The OL guys - Cajuste and Froholdt - both got a redshirt season so we don't know, but they have potential. Bailey was excellent this year. And I think Stidham at worst will be a capable NFL backup, which every team needs.
100% agree on 2019 draft. Right now there are a lot of incomplete grades but those are mostly due to injuries and lack of opportunities. Harry should at least be a solid complementary option, basically what we hoped Sanu would bring. But he can still be more. JJ probably is a mainstay on the D next year. Winovich will likely have a solid career. You also have guys like Meyers and Gunner who’ll probably be on the team next year. Harris should at least be able to provide RB depth. As we know here, a redshirt year in NE at RB is not a big issue. If one of the OL guys from last year turns into a rotational guy or starter, we’re looking a lot better.

All in all, I’m not as down on the roster as some. Would definitely like to see a blue chip on the DL and at LB.
 

DJnVa

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  • Get Brady sorted
  • Get a TE
  • Figure out if Harry is the real deal (if he is, then Harry, Edelman, Sanu is a decent start)
  • Figure out the RB spot, because having Harris be a healthy scratch all next year would be complete waste
  • Defense should be good, even if we lose someone like Van Noy. Hopefully OL stays healthy.
  • Get Brady a playmaker if it's not going to be Harry.
 

jsinger121

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The hyperbole of the team is done is a bit premature. If they can acquire a WR that allows Edelman to not be doubled every time it improves not 1 but 3 spots. The upgrade at that WR position, Edelman doesn't get doubled, and White gets a more favorable matchup. Add in even an average TE and the offense looks a heck of a lot better.
They have a lot more holes than just WR and TE. Also age is catching up to the defense. I personally think they are done and I'd start the transition now. The Patriots shouldn't keep this team together to win AFC East titles. The goal is the Super Bowl and they have been passed by by at least 3-4 teams that are younger and frankly better.
 

Super Nomario

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This is hilarious because Belichick is saying something like, "I'm sure you have lots of good questions, Ben, you're a prepared, thoughtful reporter" and Volin is basically like "nah dude, I'm just here for lazy takes."

If Belichick goes into Kraft's office (both Robert and Jonathan) and tells them "Look, from a football perspective, I want Brady as my QB in 2020. Stidham has a ways to go, and anyone else available out there is likely to not be significantly better. I didn't do a great job getting him a supporting cast on offense. However, he's also going to be 43, and we have a lot of holes to fill as well. My cap guy tells me we can allocate this much for him in 2020 and 2021. I'm willing to do a bit more, but not much. But if he wants to be the highest paid QB in the league next year, there's no way we can fit him in and field a competitive team.".... I have to believe the Krafts say "understood" and do their best to work out a new deal, but also respect Belichick's parameters and would be willing to wish Brady well if moving on is the only recourse. I've seen zero evidence outside ESPN that the Krafts will try to overrule Belichick.

OTOH, if Belichick goes into the office and says "Look Bob, we have to move on from Brady, and 2020 is the year to do it.", it could be a much more contentious discussion. I *think* the Krafts would still side with BB, but I'd be less willing to put real $$$ on it if that was the case.
I think this is right. I think the former scenario is most likely. But I also think everyone involved with Brady's extension last year recognized the latter was a possibility.

I agree that this draft is really important, but I feel that the 2019 draft is going to turn out to be a good one. I think Harry is going to be a really good NFL player (though maybe not quite the super stud we were hoping for). Williams already looks like a legit NFL defensive back. Winovich is going to be, IMO, a Ninkovich type - a guy with a high motor who just makes plays. He was much stronger in the first half of the season compared to the second, but that was true for basically everyone on the team. He's a good football player. Damien Harris, well, who knows, but I think he might very well end up being a lot better than Michel and maybe we will see Harris break out next year. The OL guys - Cajuste and Froholdt - both got a redshirt season so we don't know, but they have potential. Bailey was excellent this year. And I think Stidham at worst will be a capable NFL backup, which every team needs.
It certainly could turn out to be a good draft, but I've thought the same thing after the past few drafts and it hasn't panned out. We haven't gotten a Y2 leap from a draftee since Mason and Flowers.
 

mcpickl

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They have a lot more holes than just WR and TE. Also age is catching up to the defense. I personally think they are done and I'd start the transition now. The Patriots shouldn't keep this team together to win AFC East titles. The goal is the Super Bowl and they have been passed by by at least 3-4 teams that are younger and frankly better.
You keep overreacting like this, what do you think they should do?

Tank?
 

BaseballJones

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It certainly could turn out to be a good draft, but I've thought the same thing after the past few drafts and it hasn't panned out. We haven't gotten a Y2 leap from a draftee since Mason and Flowers.
Totally agree. There's some real "ifs" there. But hey, that's drafting, right? Gonna hit some, gonna miss some. Just hope you hit more than you miss. Plus, BB tends to get a lot of mileage out of UDFAs, which don't "count" for each team's draft class (because, uh, they weren't drafted) but which are just as important components to a year's "rookie" class. Obviously JC Jackson fits that bill. Dude was terrific this year in his 2nd year as an UDFA in 2018.

Actually, here are some UDFAs on the Pats that BB grabbed:

JC Jackson - in his 2nd year
Jonathan Jones - in his 3rd year
Jakobi Meyers - rookie year
Brandon Bolden - in his 7th year
Adam Butler - in his 2nd year

So...pretty good stuff there.
 

8slim

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They have a lot more holes than just WR and TE. Also age is catching up to the defense. I personally think they are done and I'd start the transition now. The Patriots shouldn't keep this team together to win AFC East titles. The goal is the Super Bowl and they have been passed by by at least 3-4 teams that are younger and frankly better.
Last year at this time everyone thought the Rams were going to be a SB contender for several years. They were wholly mediocre this year. The Ravens and the Chiefs are better than the Pats at the moment, but both of those teams will lose FAs, coaches, etc. this offseason, just like everyone else. I don’t think the Pats are anywhere near the state where you blow them up.
 

jsinger121

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You keep overreacting like this, what do you think they should do?

Tank?
I didn't say tank. But they can't commit 30 million a year to Brady and be Super Bowl competitive with the holes they have. If they want to win AFC East titles be my guest and bring Brady back but they aren't getting to the Super Bowl again with this roster as constituted with the holes and cap problems they have.
 

shoosh77

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Agreed. While we have 12 picks in 2020 draft (before the Cincy penalty), 7 of them are in Rounds 6 and 7. Hopefully the penalty comes from that bunch.

They really need to hit on many of their earlier picks. While every draft is important, the 2020 one feels really important.
It’s time to get some speed/high twitch athlete types. You can coach up their smarts easier than making them faster.
 

RedOctober3829

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Jul 19, 2005
55,298
deep inside Guido territory
They have a lot more holes than just WR and TE. Also age is catching up to the defense. I personally think they are done and I'd start the transition now. The Patriots shouldn't keep this team together to win AFC East titles. The goal is the Super Bowl and they have been passed by by at least 3-4 teams that are younger and frankly better.
This isn’t basketball where you tank for 1-2 players and it’s an instant fix. You tear it apart and it’s going to take 5 years.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,085
It’s time to get some speed/high twitch athlete types. You can coach up their smarts easier than making them faster.
They absolutely need more athleticism. The only guy who can consistently create separation is Edelman and he’s almost done. The Pats offense has always needed that quick twitch slot guy.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,546
I didn't say tank. But they can't commit 30 million a year to Brady and be Super Bowl competitive with the holes they have. If they want to win AFC East titles be my guest and bring Brady back but they aren't getting to the Super Bowl again with this roster as constituted with the holes and cap problems they have.
I didn't say you said tank. I asked if that's what you thought they should do.

So, if you don't think they should bring Brady back, what do you think they should do?
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,054
Hingham, MA
Any division winner can win it all pretty much every year. Period. So hell yeah sign me up for two more division titles.
 

jsinger121

@jsinger121
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
17,676
I didn't say you said tank. I asked if that's what you thought they should do.

So, if you don't think they should bring Brady back, what do you think they should do?
Go with Stidham. Change the offense to suit the way he plays. Get more speed and athletic players and start to turn over that aging defense. The sooner they break this down the better off they will be in the long run. Hanging on to false hope gets teams in trouble. As BB has said its better to get rid of players a year early than a year late.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
13,487
Santa Monica, CA
This isn’t basketball where you tank for 1-2 players and it’s an instant fix. You tear it apart and it’s going to take 5 years.
Where are people getting this 5 years bullshit?

The team the Pats beat in the Super Bowl last year were 4-12 two seasons earlier.

The Eagles went from last place 4-12 to winning the Super Bowl in 5 years. They won a division title and went to the playoffs the year after the last place finish.

This is the NFL. Well-run teams can rebuild quickly.