Galloway had all of 13 catches in 9 games the season before he came to New England, and 12 catches in 10 games the season following his cup of coffee here. Ochocinco got cut by a mediocre Dolphins team in training camp the following season, a team that featured Davone Bess and Marlon Moore on the WR depth chart.
The Erhardt/Perkins/Weis offense was being used by the Pats before Josh's ascension.
Yes, but I don't remember it being as hard for new guys to pick up until the last few seasons.
I just want to add on here a bit. Given that the team has limited resources, both in the draft and financially, to improve, it seems to me like the best strategy is to count on Harry turning into that semi-competent X receiver, with Myers and a veteran camp body as the backup plans there.
Dorsett to me is a slot only guy. He's had almost all of his success playing in the slot. When he plays outside he loses. You have to rely on rookies sometimes when you don't have a heavy veteran team like they did in 2014-2019. I just don't think relying on Harry to make the jump is a good strategy because there is a greater than 0% chance that he will not be able to be that competent X-receiver. @Super Nomario has pointed out before that Dorsett is a vertical option but only from the slot. Honestly I don't think they need him anymore because they already have 4 guys who in theory should be able to excel in the slot (Sanu, Meyers, Harry, Edelman). The speedy X's who are half-decent cost an arm and a leg in FA so I think you have to draft them. This year is a great year for WRs.
I don't mean to be snarky, but even in a great draft year for WRs, can we trust this Patriots brain trust to draft the right one and/or it's 43 year old QB to go against his history and feed him enough to develop a rhythm with the guy they do pick?
If by 'we' you mean 'me' then yes. I trust this Patriots brain trust and it's 43 year old QB pretty much whole-heartedly.
They have just as good as chance as any.
That seems a bit premature. They clearly like what he can do as they were trying to force-feed him late in the season.
Based on which drafted wide receivers do you base this trust?
I think others have covered why it is hard to project college WR --> pro WR. I do think on some level that Tom needs to be there for OTAs especially with younger guys. Drafting is more or less a random process. The guys with the most success have had stability/communications with coaching on what they need and how to integrate guys into the offense/defense/ST. The Pats don't have the Van Noy drafted by the Lions and the coaching staff has no clue how to use him issues. I can see why they wanted Harry for Bully-Ball and took that gamble. I trust them though, sure.
I wonder whether, if he comes back and knows the window's closing, that he will change his stance this year
Okay, cliche statement on my part. He seems to have been the only recent example of a drafted wide receiver that has had some success, although lamentably limited
Deebo Samuel. AJ Brown. McLaurin. All more adept route runners, more typical “Patriot receiver” types. I’m sure there’s more to Harry and I‘m hopeful he’ll show it with the year-two jump, full off-season, etc... but it’s frustrating to see what seems a pretty straightforward projection ignored by an FO with a historically great track record overall. It’s not wild speculation or even Monday morning quarterbacking to wish we’d taken, say, Deebo instead. Oh well.
As someone who is on the "Sanu sucks" wagon, I'll admit it's hard to determine the root cause of his struggles given the limited info we do have.
Except we don't know how they would have developed with the Patriots. Drop a pass or run a route the wrong way, they might not see a target the rest of the game.
I’ve heard this argument for a long time, and I’m sure it has SOME validity, but I doubt it is as clear cut as that. Those players‘ skill sets - separation, route running - better match the skill sets of the vast majority of past/present effective WRs in the Patriots system, and the demands of that system. So, I guess I take your point, but think that point may be a bit overblown, generally speaking.
Only thing I would add is I didn't like Isabella. I am not sure why I said I did. Forgot I added him to the list? Whatever. Also, I said 2018 when it was the 2019 draft... seems like I rushed the post a bit.
Lamar Jackson is a great example illustrating this point.
Separation and route running are a combination of the rookie's skills, plus the ntechniques and demands of a new offensive scheme. We've heard for years about how difficult the Patriots' system is to pick up. There's simply no way of knowing how any of those receivers would have fared in the Patriots' scheme.
Exactly, which was my point. It's as much on the Patriots' system -- and Brady's willingness to keep going back to rookies after a mistake or two -- as it is on the receivers themselves
I agree with this.
This is fair up to a point but not when the difference in production is an order of magnitude. I mean, D.K. Metcalf had more yards on Sunday than Harry had all season. So maybe these guys produce 40% less in NE (which is dramatic). But they'd have to produce 80-90% less not to beat what we got out of Harry.
Harry couldn't separate or run routes in college though, either. It's not like Michel where he looks like a different guy.
Then doesn't that go back to my point about whether we can trust the Patriots brain trust to draft the right receiver in the first place?
It's a tough position to draft. But it's an expensive position to buy, too. I'm not sure I want to throw another late first at WR, but I'm not sure about paying the Adam Humphrieses of the world $10 MM a year either, so I don't know where that leaves us.
As you've said, they need to hit on their evaluations much better than they have been. It's perplexing how they have consistently got WR wrong. Even Mitchell who was good had major injury issues.
That's also why he was there in the fourth. Other than Harry, they really haven't invested much draft stock in WR, so I'm not too concerned about their history specifically, but looking league-wide, WR looks like one of the tougher positions to get right.
Or how about dumb down the offense for younger players. The offense is too complicated for many guys and it really limits the Patriots. I know the direction I want the organization to go in but it ain't popular around here.
I know the bolded gets repeated a lot, but not sure it's the root cause of the problem. Talent matters. Receivers still need to run the right routes and get separation. Gronk and Hernandez had no problem picking up the offense during their rookie years. Most of the guys the team brought in via free agency picked up the offense.
The offense is limiting for the Pats? They've been a top 10 offense in what 17/20 years or more?
I think there are three things here:
Bedard on the radio today backed you up on this. He said the Weis playbook was about 1 inch thick and the McDaniels playbook is 3+ inches thick.
Is that a result of time though? That they have been able to add and add without having to subtract?
He didn't spend a lot of time on it. I didn't get the sense he was making a big deal out of it, but check the replay. I did hear him propose bringing Weis back if Josh leaves town.
