2020 Pats: General/Non-QB Off-Season Discussion

BaseballJones

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Let’s say a guy has two years left on his contract (putting him on schedule to be a free agent after 2021) and opts out of the season for covid reasons. Does 2020 count as a contract year, and is he still going to be a free agent after 2021?

In baseball that’s what it appears they’re doing, so the Sox lose McHugh after he played absolutely no games for them. I assume it’s the same in the NFL.

But what’s going to be rough is if somehow their cap number rolls over and they have to pay double in 2021, or if somehow he’s on the books for salary cap purposes even after his contract is up due to opting out. That could hamstring some teams financially. Anyone know how they’re planning on handling that league wide from a cap standpoint?
 

scottyno

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Let’s say a guy has two years left on his contract (putting him on schedule to be a free agent after 2021) and opts out of the season for covid reasons. Does 2020 count as a contract year, and is he still going to be a free agent after 2021?

In baseball that’s what it appears they’re doing, so the Sox lose McHugh after he played absolutely no games for them. I assume it’s the same in the NFL.

But what’s going to be rough is if somehow their cap number rolls over and they have to pay double in 2021, or if somehow he’s on the books for salary cap purposes even after his contract is up due to opting out. That could hamstring some teams financially. Anyone know how they’re planning on handling that league wide from a cap standpoint?
It looks like all NFL contracts for opt outs are tolled, assuming that there is a season I guess, not sure what happens if there isn't one at all.

View: https://twitter.com/DougKyed/status/1287971164070060032
 

IdiotKicker

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Season's done. They never had a chance with the way they went about this. I agree with Mooch that we'll see a ton of opt-outs, and while I'm pissed I likely won't get to see the full fury of the Cam Newton Revenge Tour this fall, I'd rather punt on this fall and keep all these guys and their families healthy for the future.
 

Saints Rest

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Miguel tweeted about cap space today:
After accounting for
opt-outs of Hightower, Bolden, Cannon, Najee Toran and Danny Vitale,
5 guaranteed salaries added to the Patriots dead money
Hastings re-signing
my new Patriots salary cap space number is $24,195,302. The Patriots now have 76 players on their 2020 roster
 
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InstaFace

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Hang on a sec, Miguel is skipping steps here. When he says "5 guaranteed salaries added to the Patriots dead money", does that mean that the way opt-outs are handled is:

A) player is paid anyway, cap hit remains
B) player is paid anyway, cap hit voided, team regains cap space
C) player is not paid, cap hit remains
D) player is not paid, cap hit voided, team regains cap space

...because in my mind, "dead money" means either A or C. And yeah I don't know if that extends contracts by a year or not, but I'm more concerned about 2020 cap management. It seems like a lot of you seem to know the answer to that question, but I haven't seen it plainly discussed anywhere that I can easily find.
 

DJnVa

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They get a cap break. In Hightower's case, his signing bonus portion counts against the cap (that's the dead money) but not his salary.

Scroll down to exempt list: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/

Not sure of all the different permutations (Jakob Johnson doesn't appear to give any relief--maybe not considered top 51) but Pats now have the 3rd most space in league.
 

Saints Rest

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I wonder what protections/plans are in place for the salary cap permutations of cutting a player who opts out?

Can a team not cut him until the end of 2020 NLF year (which is usually around early March)?

Cannon especially was viewed by some as a potential cap casualty even this year. What happens if the Pats discover, by necessity, that the new RT is a better/cheaper alternative?
 

Harry Hooper

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In order to save time:

"That was covered in the team statement sent out previously."
 

InstaFace

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A lot of "it is what it is", and "it's all the same for everybody". Kinda dodged the question about how he got to know Jedd Fisch.

Not answering questions about COVID tests.

Didn't know Troy Brown was now an assistant to Ivan Fears as RB Coach. BB was definitely happy to gush about him.

A good question at the end: if you have an open QB competition, how do you prepare the rest of the offense for a playbook that maximizes the particular talents of whatever QB wins the starting job?
A: It's really the same for all positions. Set up a structure that you implement, everyone needs to learn certain basics, and most of training camp is getting people to the point of excellence for the basics in their position. Same is true for everyone. There will be plenty of time to tune things, add plays that might highlight a player or specific skills, that comes down the road a little bit. Need to be good fundamentally first, execute basic assignments, techniques and adjustments, and those are for everyone in every unit. No way around that.

Went to 80 players rather than 90 because at 90 you have to split into 2 groups. Predicts other teams will go to 80 well before the roster cut-down date on the 16th, possibly as early as monday.
 

bsj

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Walker feels like Watson although hopefully with a bit more left in the tank.

Better comparison may be Crumpler who the Pats brought in basically to teach Gronk and Hernandez how to be NFL TEs
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Walker feels like Watson although hopefully with a bit more left in the tank.

Better comparison may be Crumpler who the Pats brought in basically to teach Gronk and Hernandez how to be NFL TEs
IIRC Delanie Walker is someone that Belichick has off-the-cuff gushed about, seemingly well above his talent/production level.

Catastrophic injury in week 1 two seasons ago and has yet to really come back. Worth a tryout.
 

tmracht

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IIRC Delanie Walker is someone that Belichick has off-the-cuff gushed about, seemingly well above his talent/production level.

Catastrophic injury in week 1 two seasons ago and has yet to really come back. Worth a tryout.
Wasn't it a very Hayward-esque ankle dislocation and fracture or something along those lines. In which case looking at Hayward the recovery time is really long even if you make it back on the field/court you're not the same for quite a while.
 

bsj

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IIRC Delanie Walker is someone that Belichick has off-the-cuff gushed about, seemingly well above his talent/production level.

Catastrophic injury in week 1 two seasons ago and has yet to really come back. Worth a tryout.
I believe you are correct. that said, i feel like the majority of the time when Bill finally gets a player in the building late in his career that he long admired, Wayne, Holt, and Ocho are some quick examples, they tend to be disappointing/have too little left to help.
 
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Phil Plantier

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I believe you are correct. that said, i feel like the majority of the time when Bill finally gets a player in the building late in his career that he long admired, Wayne, Holt, and Ocho are some quick examples, they tend to be disappointing/have too little left to help.
I've heard this sentiment a few times. I'm procrastinating at 7am (good sign that I'll be productive today). I went through all of the rosters since 2001. Here are the age 30+ new arrivals who were starters for at least 16 games (and other notable players, denoted with a star)

Corey Dillon: 30
David Patten: 30*
Adalius Thomas: 30 (I know)
Roosevelt Colvin: 30
Jamie Collins, part deux: 30
Deion Branch, part deux: 31
Brandon Lloyd: 31*
Alan Branch: 31
Chris Long: 31
Jason McCourty: 31
Mike Compton: 31
Christian Fauria: 31
Rodney Harrison: 31
Roman Phifer: 33
Alge Crumpler: 33*
Bryan Cox: 33
Anthony Pleasant: 33
Brian Waters: 34
Otis Smith: 35
Ted Washington: 35
Junior Seau: 37

I don't think these players were blocking any younger players, since the Patriots are disinclined to do that in general. Since all these older veteran signings are for very little money (Dillon, Branch, and Washington were trades, McCourty was a "trade," I may have missed some others), what's the success rate needed for this to be a useful strategy?

My point is, if the argument is "we're not going to see 2015 2nd team all-pro Delanie Walker," I agree. If the argument is "these older famous player signings are stupid," then I disagree.

P.S.: Pro Football Reference similar players to Walker include Alge Crumpler and Martellus Bennett
 

bsj

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I've heard this sentiment a few times. I'm procrastinating at 7am (good sign that I'll be productive today). I went through all of the rosters since 2001. Here are the age 30+ new arrivals who were starters for at least 16 games (and other notable players, denoted with a star)

Corey Dillon: 30
David Patten: 30*
Adalius Thomas: 30 (I know)
Roosevelt Colvin: 30
Jamie Collins, part deux: 30
Deion Branch, part deux: 31
Brandon Lloyd: 31*
Alan Branch: 31
Chris Long: 31
Jason McCourty: 31
Mike Compton: 31
Christian Fauria: 31
Rodney Harrison: 31
Roman Phifer: 33
Alge Crumpler: 33*
Bryan Cox: 33
Anthony Pleasant: 33
Brian Waters: 34
Otis Smith: 35
Ted Washington: 35
Junior Seau: 37

I don't think these players were blocking any younger players, since the Patriots are disinclined to do that in general. Since all these older veteran signings are for very little money (Dillon, Branch, and Washington were trades, McCourty was a "trade," I may have missed some others), what's the success rate needed for this to be a useful strategy?

My point is, if the argument is "we're not going to see 2015 2nd team all-pro Delanie Walker," I agree. If the argument is "these older famous player signings are stupid," then I disagree.

P.S.: Pro Football Reference similar players to Walker include Alge Crumpler and Martellus Bennett
I wasnt trying to be critical in any way. Nor was I saying BB FA's specifically are not good. He's had some great ones. I really was thinking specifically in terms of offensive weapons, particularly pass catchers, he has often spoken highly of who were then to come after seemingly being well on the downside. I think its Bills respect for them that often gets them at least a shot.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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He doesn't really fit how the Patriots like to build their roster though, and creates all kinds of issues for the Cap in future years
Agreed. For a lot less money, your can shore up 2 spots with Walker and Matthews.

I say no to "1-Practice-a-Week" Clowney.
 

RedOctober3829

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Agreed. For a lot less money, your can shore up 2 spots with Walker and Matthews.

I say no to "1-Practice-a-Week" Clowney.
I say no to Clay Matthews as well. He is much slower than in his heyday. Walker I will lean more towards but again is his explosiveness there? If not, he does not help as a blocker either so it may be better to fill the TE hole with a player than can help the team in one particular area. Jeff Heuerman and Dwyane Allen are good blocking TEs who are available.