2020 Pats: General/Non-QB Off-Season Discussion

Papelbon's Poutine

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Dec 4, 2005
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1 day to go in getting a Thuney deal done. Will it get done? My thoughts are that it doesn’t.
I doubt it and I'm not sure thats a bad thing. Scherff reportedly turned down $13M/yr+ on a long term deal before Washington capped him and he's got a longer track record. Huge long term deals for guards seem like a bad decision and Thuney has no reason to not sit tight and force their hand.
 

BigSoxFan

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I don’t see how we can pay both guards top dollar going forward. Thuney is a nice player but would rather trade him now or keep him for a season and get the comp pick.

I’m betting on the latter scenario playing out.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I don’t see how we can pay both guards top dollar going forward. Thuney is a nice player but would rather trade him now or keep him for a season and get the comp pick.

I’m betting on the latter scenario playing out.
Yeah, I was gonna mention that aspect then looked at Mason's contract, they could conceivably cut ties with Mason after 2020 and not take a crazy cap hit; it'd be about $6M in dead money.
 

steveluck7

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Assuming no new deal for Thuney by tomorrow, what are the restraints, if any, around trading him later in the summer or up until the deadline? Is there any dead cap hit on the tag salary or is it all pay as you go?
I don't know that there are rules but i would think f a team was interested in trading for him, they would do so before he negotiated a long term deal so that they could negotiate one that fits best within their cap situation.
Also, many long term deals end up having steep dead cap hits for trading a player away, especially at the start of deals.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Assuming no new deal for Thuney by tomorrow, what are the restraints, if any, around trading him later in the summer or up until the deadline? Is there any dead cap hit on the tag salary or is it all pay as you go?
I would assume the acquiring team would need the full amount of free room under their cap, as the year is guaranteed, be it before or during the season. There wouldn't be any acceleration on the Pats as there's nothing that needs to be accounted for being amortized - dead cap hits come from bonuses that are spread over the full term for accounting purposes - they've already been paid out, but not applied in full yet. But I'm no Miguel and could easily be wrong about that.
 

Captaincoop

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Patriots planning for 20% capacity, no more than 10 together

That sounds like a reasonable and safe plan...and also there's NFW I would pay $200 for a ticket to sit by myself with 1-3 people I could watch with at home, and wear a face mask for three hours. See you next year (hopefully).
 

54thMA

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That sounds like a reasonable and safe plan...and also there's NFW I would pay $200 for a ticket to sit by myself with 1-3 people I could watch with at home, and wear a face mask for three hours. See you next year (hopefully).
Sure it is, getting blitzed pre game at tailgates, sitting on top of each other eating and drinking with no masks, then staggering into the stadium with face coverings and sitting spread apart sounds like an awesome way to spend a Sunday.

But hey, FREE PARKING!!
 

bsj

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Dec 6, 2003
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Little nugget in the story below I found interesting...JC Jackson starting to get some real hype among league coaches and execs...it was a story about the top 10 CB in football. Steph was number one, which was awesome, but the most exciting for me was JC mentioned in the NEXT 10...a quote from one exec

J.C. Jackson, New England Patriots: "A playmaker and an athlete. He's Top 10 for me." -- AFC exec

 

SMU_Sox

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@bsj What I love about BB the GM is that even though their 2nd round pick busted that year, Duke Dawson, their UDFA has turned into a fantastic 2nd outside corner.
 

BigSoxFan

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@bsj What I love about BB the GM is that even though their 2nd round pick busted that year, Duke Dawson, their UDFA has turned into a fantastic 2nd outside corner.
Yup. Keep pulling out those Malcolm Butler’s, Jonathan Jones, JC Jackson types and BB can bust on every 2nd round pick for all I care.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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This is probably worth its own thread, but I'll start it here since all I really care about is how it affects the New England Patriots.

For the next couple of weeks, the drama we saw with MLB will start to play out in the NFL as they work on their protocols. Much of this discussion is likely to obscure another rather enormous issue that will affect teams and players significantly. Under the current CBA, the cap is not static. Revenues, including gate for the games, really matter. We've all become accustomed to the cap working as a ratchet wrench that is set to only go one way since revenues keep expanding. With many teams already stating they will have at least and 80 percent reduction in ticket sales this year, and with the prospect that not all teams will even be able to complete 16 games let alone with fans in the stadium, projections currently put the cap at $40 million to $70 million lower next year.

That will disproportionately affect teams depending on their current cap composition and whether they even have the ability to shave $40 million to $70 million.

From reading the twitterverse it seems like everyone is just expecting that what will happen is that this will be a one-year impact and the parties will simply agree to spread the one-year blip over several years. is that a given? I guess at least without thinking about it too hard that's what players are going to want. Otherwise, teams are going to end up cutting veterans in huge numbers. And I think it's going to be what most fans want. I don't think anyone wants to see a bunch of one-year contracts where superstars are playing for less than their value, and watching teams have to cut all but their very top veterans.

But is it what the owners want? I assume that they are going to act in their own self-interest and that what is good for the game might not be good for each team, at least in the short run, when they are not similarly situated. And even if the impact is smoothed over several years a $10 or $15 million impact will be hard on some teams next year. It feels to me as though the Patriots will be in decent position on this since they have some cap flexibility next year. But I really don't know. It's going to be a major story of the 2021 season.
 

InstaFace

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If, I dunno, the Raiders see a (say) $120M drop in revenues for 2020 but instead of a $60M reduction in cap and concomitant reductions in their payroll, they only get $15M each of the next 5 years, then instead of a $60M hit to their bottom line in 2020, it's really a $105M cash hit to their bottom line. For teams that aren't owned by the likes of Stan Kroenke, the amortized savings doesn't matter nearly as much as the short-term cash shortfall. I have no doubt that some teams could take on additional debt to cover that sort of hit, and the league would be happy to agree to it, but a team like the Raiders they might fairly wonder if they'd run the risk of breaching their debt covenants if the recovery isn't fast enough.

I think they're going to need to agree to some league-wide salary reduction structure + escrow for some of the difference, similar to what the other leagues have done, because if the players don't want mass layoffs that's probably the only way to get the cashflow under control for 2020.
 

BaseballJones

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Apologies for dumb question but wtf is buzz? Does he not know what a comma is or is that supposed to be funny?
Looks to me like the headline of the article is that a Holocaust survivor and Julian Edelman (so...two people) have invited Jackson to learn about anti-semitism. And then "Buzz" (whoever that is) made a joke. I don't think he or she is serious.
 

E5 Yaz

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Apologies for dumb question but wtf is buzz? Does he not know what a comma is or is that supposed to be funny?
The commas are correct in that headline. The implication that Edelman was the 94-year-old survivor would only track if there were another comma after Edelman.

Edit: Or if there wasn't the first comma at all. The singular verb further makes it clear. Reading it as one person would need "invites"
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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The commas are correct in that headline. The implication that Edelman was the 94-year-old survivor would only track if there were another comma after Edelman.

Edit: Or if there wasn't the first comma at all. The singular verb further makes it clear. Reading it as one person would need "invites"
Yeah that's what I meant, it 's clear what the headline was saying, but the guy was making a bad joke.
 

Caspir

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That is true.
I would still prefer the Pats keep one of the young guys over Hoyer.
I mean the depth chart is going to be Cam and Stidham in some order. And if they both got hurt, the season would be pretty much done.
What team can lose their first and second QBs and have their season not be done?
 

heavyde050

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What team can lose their first and second QBs and have their season not be done?
None. I just meant that I would rather have Smith than Hoyer. I realize that not many teams need to run three QBs deep, but I do remember BB keeping Brady around as the 4th guy in 2000. I am not saying I expect that to happen again, but I was looking forward to adding some youth at that position.
 
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Pandemonium67

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I imagine Hoyer is kind of like a coach to Stidham, in particular, in terms of his learning how to be a pro QB. He might also be a help to Cam in terms of learning the system, terminology and playback. This year, getting Cam especially up to speed as quickly as possible is critical, and Hoyer might have a role in that.
 

heavyde050

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I imagine Hoyer is kind of like a coach to Stidham, in particular, in terms of his learning how to be a pro QB. He might also be a help to Cam in terms of learning the system, terminology and playback. This year, getting Cam especially up to speed as quickly as possible is critical, and Hoyer might have a role in that.
That is a really good way to look at it. Hoyer has good experience with the Pats' coaching staff, and he can be helpful to both Stidham and Cam.
 
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Wouldn’t stun me to see both J’Mar Smith and one of the UDFA slots - Hastings or Riley from Syracuse - make the PS at some point. Good news, a bit anyway and for now, for the RB J.J. Taylor.
 

nighthob

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None. I just meant that I would rather have Smith than Hoyer. I realize that not many teams need to run three QBs deep, but I do remember BB keeping Brady around as the 4th guy in 2000. I am not saying I expect that to happen again, but I was looking forward to adding some youth at that position.
It’s not like Smith has a chance to make another roster. He’s bound for a practice squad somewhere and likely New England’s.
 

DJnVa

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What team can lose their first and second QBs and have their season not be done?
I think his point was it that happens, rolling out one of the young guys would be better, in case you catch lightening in a bottle.
 

OurF'ingCity

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That is a really good way to look at it. Hoyer has good experience with the Pats' coaching staff, and he can be helpful to both Stidham and Cam.
And in the past the Pats have lauded his scout team abilities as well, so in that sense he's almost certainly more valuable to the defense too than any of the undrafted rookies would have been.
 

ShaneTrot

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Will this be the year where they break their string of UDFA making the team?
These guys are left from the 2020 class:
RB JJ Taylor, WR Jeff Thomas, TE Jake Burt, TE/LB Rashod Berry, DE Nick Coe, DT Bill Murray, LB De'Jon Harris, and CB Myles Bryant
Plus there are some guys left from last year's class, that were either on the practice squad, Terez Hall, or went on injured reserve list like D'Angelo Ross.
 

Harry Hooper

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Will this be the year where they break their string of UDFA making the team?
These guys are left from the 2020 class:
RB JJ Taylor, WR Jeff Thomas, TE Jake Burt, TE/LB Rashod Berry, DE Nick Coe, DT Bill Murray, LB De'Jon Harris, and CB Myles Bryant
Plus there are some guys left from last year's class, that were either on the practice squad, Terez Hall, or went on injured reserve list like D'Angelo Ross.
There would seem to be the most opportunities on defensive line.
 

MJM2344

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Apr 23, 2010
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Danny Vitale opting out of the season.


Mike Reiss

@MikeReiss


Danny Vitale (opting out of 2020 season) was vying for a roster spot at fullback, with Jakob Johnson his primary competition. The Patriots also have undrafted Jake Burt (Boston College) in the mix, while third-round TE Dalton Keene could potentially fill some of those duties.
 

cornwalls@6

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Apr 23, 2010
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Looks like it’s official. Huge loss, but obviously completely understandable. Suspect we’re going see more and more of this, probably spurred even more by the marlins/mlb situation.



 

scottyno

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Dec 7, 2008
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What is the salary cap implications for an opt out? The article about Cannon mentioned that his salary would roll thru to 2021, but no mention of cap.
If I read it correctly it seemed like if he qualifies for the high risk, which seems likely, he would get 350k this year that might count towards the cap, but the rest would roll over to next season