2020 Pats: Cam Can't Cook

E5 Yaz

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Haskins to the Pats? Yuck. Guy is reportedly a locker-room cancer, doesn't put in the work, has an attitude, and is a complete disaster with timing and anticipation throws. Mainstream media is about as accurate as predicting Patriots moves as my dog is. Makes no sense other than they might need a QB of the future.
But but but ... he has a strong arm
 

SMU_Sox

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Another reason Haskins doesn't make any sense? They want a more mobile QB. From 2018 to now you can see the team they are building on offense. It's big and powerful. Having a mobile QB helps tremendously. Haskins isn't a good fit for this offense. Hard hard pass on him.
 

E5 Yaz

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LOL, right? It is amazing to me that in 2020 would distill QB play to whether one has a big arm or not.
Same guy, when discussing a Saints landing spot, says Haskins has far more untapped potential than Jameis Winston. Well, of course he has more "untapped potential" ... that doesn't mean he'll ever be as good as Winston
 

soxhop411

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fuck it. Let’s bring in Colin Kaepernick and see what he has left in the tank.
This team isn’t going anywhere this year so it wouldn’t even hurt to try.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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As unthinkable as it might have been just 3 weeks ago, Cam may be cut before the end of the season.

It assumes that Cam doesn't improve much from today's performance. Given the roster around him, the blame may be unfair.

However, the patient & accurate Cam we saw until the Seattle game (seems eons ago) is nowhere to be found.

I can only point to Cam having lingering effects of C-19 to explain such a drastic fall off. What else could it be?
 

Mystic Merlin

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As unthinkable as it might have been just 3 weeks ago, Cam may be cut before the end of the season.

It assumes that Cam doesn't improve much from today's performance. Given the roster around him, the blame may be unfair.

However, the patient & accurate Cam we saw until the Seattle game (seems eons ago) is nowhere to be found.

I can only point to Cam having lingering effects of C-19 to explain such a drastic fall off. What else could it be?
He has a surgically repaired shoulder and he’s never been the model of consistent throwing mechanics.
 

Bowhemian

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fuck it. Let’s bring in Colin Kaepernick and see what he has left in the tank.
This team isn’t going anywhere this year so it wouldn’t even hurt to try.
He hasn’t been on an NFL football field in 4 years. How would that be helpful in any way?
 

sodenj5

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Evan Lazar says last few losses are pretty much on Cam's shoulders. The receivers have been open but he's still not processing quickly enough to take advantage and the mistakes are getting turned into turnovers:

View: https://youtu.be/vvZNgHZsyVE
This was exactly my thought watching the game. You see Cam staring down Edelman on a crossing route, finally giving up on it, and under throwing the other crossing receiver because he’s about 2 seconds late on the read.

He flat out doesn’t get through his reads fast enough, and even then it’s a crapshoot whether or not he hits an open receiver.

I would say Cam’s issue is 70% mental, 30% physical as he clearly no longer has the arm he used to have and accuracy was never his calling card.
 

Van Everyman

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And yet ... this wasn’t really happening the first few weeks of the season. I’m not saying accuracy and quick reads were strengths of his but it wasn’t this bad.

What happened since the COVID diagnosis?
 

BigSoxFan

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Cam didn’t even look to White when he was in.

One catch for 3 yards. It’s like they forgot what works for them.
 

E5 Yaz

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Cam didn’t even look to White when he was in.

One catch for 3 yards. It’s like they forgot what works for them.
The entire outlet pass game was missing. I'm wondering if it's no longer a priority in the gameplan
 

Super Nomario

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Cam didn’t even look to White when he was in.

One catch for 3 yards. It’s like they forgot what works for them.
Was he in much? Reiss had him with six first half snaps ... I haven't seen second-half totals but it seemed like a lot of Burkhead and Harris.

The entire outlet pass game was missing. I'm wondering if it's no longer a priority in the gameplan
And you could live with de-prioritizing the quick, high-percentage stuff if they were getting big chunk plays ... but they're not. The offense right now is like a singles hitter batting .220.
 

BigSoxFan

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Was he in much? Reiss had him with six first half snaps ... I haven't seen second-half totals but it seemed like a lot of Burkhead and Harris.


And you could live with de-prioritizing the quick, high-percentage stuff if they were getting big chunk plays ... but they're not. The offense right now is like a singles hitter batting .220.
Yeah, White wasn’t in much. Guessing a result of him not getting to practice.
 

BigSoxFan

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The entire outlet pass game was missing. I'm wondering if it's no longer a priority in the gameplan
Yup. Strange. Not something that should ever leave the game plan and we have some good RBs for the dumpoff game.
 

tims4wins

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Before the season started, we all figured that BB was the best guy to have at the helm due to the uncertainty of Covid.

But Covid has massively impacted their ability to practice, meet, etc. Those things have even more of an impact than I thought coming into the year. You can only scheme up so much. It’s a year where, more than most, talent wins. And the Pats are short on talent.
 

Harry Hooper

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This was exactly my thought watching the game. You see Cam staring down Edelman on a crossing route, finally giving up on it, and under throwing the other crossing receiver because he’s about 2 seconds late on the read.

He flat out doesn’t get through his reads fast enough, and even then it’s a crapshoot whether or not he hits an open receiver.

I would say Cam’s issue is 70% mental, 30% physical as he clearly no longer has the arm he used to have and accuracy was never his calling card.
Agree, it might even be 80-20. Locking on guys and being very slow to pull the trigger.
 

E5 Yaz

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reiss:
Cam Newton on health of his right throwing shoulder: “It’s fine.” Asked about mechanics, he said it is more about him pressing too much. “The energy has definitely been off for me. At times it’s not rewarding just going out there with this aura about yourself that’s not you.”
 

BigJimEd

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And yet ... this wasn’t really happening the first few weeks of the season. I’m not saying accuracy and quick reads were strengths of his but it wasn’t this bad.

What happened since the COVID diagnosis?
Problems with concentration and focus along with an overall mental fog can be lingering issues from Covid.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Why is this any surprise? Cam has one of the 5-10 worst starting QBs in the league the last few years. he comes back, first couple games teams were not prepared for him and he made some plays. Now, he is back to not making quick reads when first option is taken away, being inaccurate, etc. NFL coaching is good, it didn't take much tape for teams to figure him out
 

lexrageorge

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Cam was always a lottery ticket. The team had no cap space prior to the opt-outs, and signing Cam on a 1 year flyer made perfect sense. I do hope the coaching staff can right the ship with him; I'm not quite ready to declare him cooked, especially given the practice situation this season. But if not, then they haven't really lost anything by bringing him on board; they'll have a clean slate next season.

Belichick probably gives him 2 or 3 more games to figure it out before moving on to Stidham, which would be akin to running the white flag on the season.
 

Captaincoop

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After seeing a little bit of Stidham, the real question isn't why did they give Cam a try, it's "were they really willing to play a whole season with Stidham and Hoyer as the QB options?"
 

joe dokes

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This was exactly my thought watching the game. You see Cam staring down Edelman on a crossing route, finally giving up on it, and under throwing the other crossing receiver because he’s about 2 seconds late on the read.

He flat out doesn’t get through his reads fast enough, and even then it’s a crapshoot whether or not he hits an open receiver.

I would say Cam’s issue is 70% mental, 30% physical as he clearly no longer has the arm he used to have and accuracy was never his calling card.
He used to be able to make up for the reads with a cannon arm. Like DRS said upthread --he may not be in pain or injured. Just damaged. I can't remember who it was, but I read a piece by a shortstop from the 70s or 80s who had shoulder surgery to relieve long-standing pain. He was thrilled all winter to be able to work out pain-free and was excited to play. In one of his first ST games, he got a grounder in the hole and the runner beat his accurate and pain-free throw. He soon realized that he had basically lost the proverbial 5mph off his fastball, that it was never coming back, and he was a pain-free utility guy thereafter.
 

sodenj5

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He used to be able to make up for the reads with a cannon arm. Like DRS said upthread --he may not be in pain or injured. Just damaged. I can't remember who it was, but I read a piece by a shortstop from the 70s or 80s who had shoulder surgery to relieve long-standing pain. He was thrilled all winter to be able to work out pain-free and was excited to play. In one of his first ST games, he got a grounder in the hole and the runner beat his accurate and pain-free throw. He soon realized that he had basically lost the proverbial 5mph off his fastball, that it was never coming back, and he was a pain-free utility guy thereafter.
Right. If you’re slow on processing but can fire a laser in there to make up for it, that’s one thing. He also doesn’t anticipate people coming open. He needs to see them open then fire. That compounds his issue.

I think the bottom line is there’s a reason Cam was a free agent for all that time.There was a chance he could recapture some magic, but teams seem pretty intent on jamming the box and making Cam beat them with his arm.
 

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That passing chart is alarming. During the game, there were a couple of looks/fakes to a receiver on the right and the pass went left and I was surprised by how many 49'ers were flowing to the ball - like no one was fooled. It could just be put down to poor execution, but I'd think that kind of a R/L split would stand out like a sore thumb to an alert scout.

Put me down as well with those who see a problem with his arm/shoulder. On the out (to the left, of course) to Harry, Cam looked like Tom Seaver in the amount of strain it took to get the ball out - and it didn't pop as it should given the effort. I think it's affecting the amount of time it's taking to get the ball out too. He knows he needs to gear up to get the ball on target and on time and he's not seeing the play fast enough to get the arm in motion in the right slot. Kind of reminds me of latter day Peyton who had lost all arm strength, but compensated by throwing his ducks way ahead of his receivers. He had the advantage of knowing system/receivers inside and out. Cam just doesn't have that luxury and it's showing.
 

BaseballJones

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And at least Keene wasn't really open. If you actually watch the play (I will wait for the all-22 I guess for confirmation), you'll note that SF has a linebacker right behind him, just out of view of that shot. It's at most a 3-4 yard gain with the Pats down 24 points. SF was happy to allow that kind of play.
 

Soxy

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Even as the resident Cam stan here, there's just no way to sugarcoat the disaster that was yesterday's performance. I don't think I've ever seen that poor of a game from him.

I see two things:

1) Cam's mechanics have regressed
2) He looks like he doesn't fully trust what he's seeing

What you end up with is a QB who is making poor decisions with the ball way too often (missing open receivers), and when he does make the correct decision, his mechanics are all over the place (resulting in poor throws).

The good news is that, unless there is an injury affecting those things, those theoretically should be fixable. His mechanics were solid at the beginning of the season, and he was executing high level throws. I'm a little more wary of bullet point #2, as the truncated off-season may be starting to rear its ugly head in terms of learning the ins and out of this offense. Trying to do that on the fly, and retool your mechanics, and deal with COVID, in a 2-4 hole already..... Cam's got his work cut out for him.

I'm not throwing in the towel quite yet, but this Sunday's game @Buffalo is more or less do or die time. If they can get a W there, they'll be two back in the win column and one back in the loss column with nine games left, which honestly wouldn't be all that terrible considering they just lost three games in a row. But they have to find a way to play well and beat Buffalo, or the Cam experiment will likely come to a sad end.
 

E5 Yaz

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But they have to find a way to play well and beat Buffalo, or the Cam experiment will likely come to a sad end.
I was with you until the end. There's no way then will willingly end the Cam experiment after the Buffalo game ... not with a game at Baltimore the next week. They're not sending Stidham (or Hoyer) out there against the Ravens.
 

Soxy

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I was with you until the end. There's no way then will willingly end the Cam experiment after the Buffalo game ... not with a game at Baltimore the next week. They're not sending Stidham (or Hoyer) out there against the Ravens.
I didn't mean to imply that he would automatically get benched if they lose to Buffalo, though I can see how it reads like that. It was more about how if they lose and fall to 2-5, it won't really matter what Cam does the rest of the way because the season will likely end in disappointment, and you would think the team would be moving on from him. I guess they could believe a full off-season in their program may iron out some of the issues he's been having, but that's a tough sell unless he starts playing a hell of a lot better than this.

Also, they play the Jets before the Ravens, but point taken.
 

cshea

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I don't think they'll end the Newton experiment until Bill feels this season is lost. It seems clear Bill thinks Newton represents their best chance at winning, as he always does "what is best for the football team." If the losses continue to mount, at some point what's best for the football team will be determining if Stidham is a real option for 2021 and beyond. Not sure how bad they would need to be for Bill to get to that point, but I don't think we'll see a Stidham start before then (assuming Newton is healthy).
 

NomarsFool

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I think coming into this season we had 2 scenarios:

1) Cam plays well, Patriots make the playoffs, but then unfortunately, the Patriots were unlikely to pay him FA QB so he'd be a one-and-done and we still wouldn't know what we have in Stidham (maybe the coaching staff already knows, but I find that hard to understand)

2) Cam doesn't play well, is replaced by Stidham, and we find out what we have in Stidham before next season.

At this point, it's hard to see the Patriots making the playoffs - and even if they did, Cam doesn't look good enough to lead them out of the first round. I shudder at scenario #3 - which is mediocre Cam blocking Stidham all season, leaving, and then we have another offseason of not knowing what the Patriots should do at QB.