2020 Pats: 2020 Roster & Beyond (non-QB edition)

Super Nomario

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Leaving Steve Belichick and Jonathan Kraft. Not sure what Robert Kraft brings to football ops at this point that Jonathan doesn't, especially with his "son" Brady out of the picture.
History is littered with children of great coaches and great owners who wound up being terrible coaches or terrible owners.
 

ZMart100

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Sure, but I think people are way overestimating the likelihood of that "if." Most young QBs stink. I loved what I saw from him in the preseason last year, but realistically there is no floor to how bad Stidham might be, and no telling how long it might take to find average QB production.
There is a floor. He isn't a rookie, BB has seen him in practice and had some idea what he had when he renegotiated Brady's deal. I trust BB's confidence in the kid, though I'm sure he doesn't know with 100% certainty what Stidham will be on Sundays.
 

5dice

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History is littered with children of great coaches and great owners who wound up being terrible coaches or terrible owners.
That could surely be the case with Steve, but do you really think Jonathan hasn't been the person running this aside from drunk trophy holding, locker rooms kisses and Tom Brady quotes?
 

Super Nomario

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There is a floor. He isn't a rookie, BB has seen him in practice and had some idea what he had when he renegotiated Brady's deal. I trust BB's confidence in the kid, though I'm sure he doesn't know with 100% certainty what Stidham will be on Sundays.
Belichick had seen Stidham in camp, but they hadn't even played a preseason game yet when they signed Brady's deal. The floor I guess is Cody Kessler since he's the backup right now.

I'd put Belichick's track record with QBs up with anybody's, but that position is fundamentally fraught with failure. This team went two full seasons with Ryan Mallett one injury away.
 

Super Nomario

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That could surely be the case with Steve, but do you really think Jonathan hasn't been the person running this aside from drunk trophy holding, locker rooms kisses and Tom Brady quotes?
I imagine there is some division of duties between Jonathan and Robert. So some of the stuff he will be able to slide into fine. Some of the stuff will be new, and it's hard to predict how he will do.

I don't want to say owners are underappreciated because, y'know, billionaires, but the reality that so many of them are awful strongly suggests that it's not as easy as it looks. I lived in the Bay Area for a couple years and watched Jed York completely screw up a good situation and I vowed never to take Robert Kraft for granted again. YMMV.
 

5dice

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Hard to predict? JK has been side by side with dad in every owners meeting, league affair for years and runs most every aspect of their football and business operation. What convention or “Patriots way” best practice will he suddenly flout to sink the franchise like Jed York?
 

lexrageorge

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While sometimes the children of successful owners do manage to screw it up, it's not always the case either. Charlie Jacobs is pretty much running the Bruins at the ownership level these days, and has been fine. Of all the potential risk points with the Patriots, Jonathan Kraft seems like one of the items to be less concerned about right now.
 

bakahump

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How does a Owner screw up?
He doesnt listen to his coaches.
He Invests too much power into 1 Guy (who hasnt earned it).
He talks to much in the press.

None of those seem like JK issues.
He will listen to BB for as long as he is here. Should it be someone else as HC he has had a front row seat watching exactly how to interact with a coach.
Even BB didnt start with the Cart and the Credit Card to buy groceries. He had some checks and balances. I also assume that BB will have some major say into Ops after he steps down as coach.
JK....does he even speak? And RK has shown that you can say things if your careful.
 

bsj

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I am tempted to break this out but think it may work here. I dont think its a big enough ask to warrant a separate thread, but mods feel free if I am wrong.

I am not a cap expert, not do I have any desire to try to be. but can someone explain to me this- why is it that for a number of years in recent history....not every year, but many, we seem to be in such bad cap shape, yet we are always lacking for offensive weapons? Where is our money going? Every year we see teams like the Browns spend spend spend....yet it seems that most years we are up against it. And now, losing our franchise QB, it still didnt free up enough salary to really do anything of note.

This isnt a complaint or a gripe, i just am curious what the mechanic is. How did this "hole" get formed? Are we paying debts accrued when we were winning (deferrals?) is the the avg for the less glamor positions higher for us so it impedes us elsewhere? Is it just bad luck (Aaron, AB, etc)? And when do we get some legit flexibility back?
 

jsinger121

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I am tempted to break this out but think it may work here. I dont think its a big enough ask to warrant a separate thread, but mods feel free if I am wrong.

I am not a cap expert, not do I have any desire to try to be. but can someone explain to me this- why is it that for a number of years in recent history....not every year, but many, we seem to be in such bad cap shape, yet we are always lacking for offensive weapons? Where is our money going? Every year we see teams like the Browns spend spend spend....yet it seems that most years we are up against it. And now, losing our franchise QB, it still didnt free up enough salary to really do anything of note.

This isnt a complaint or a gripe, i just am curious what the mechanic is. How did this "hole" get formed? Are we paying debts accrued when we were winning (deferrals?) is the the avg for the less glamor positions higher for us so it impedes us elsewhere? Is it just bad luck (Aaron, AB, etc)? And when do we get some legit flexibility back?
BB likes to spend on the middle class instead of having a top heavy roster like a lot of the teams in the NFL have. I'd say its worked out well for the last 20 years and that I will trust his judgement on how to manage the cap.
 

SMU_Sox

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@bsj A couple of things come to mind. BB leads the NFL in contracts over 1m every year. BB pays for a middle class of players and that impacts the cap. During the last 4-5 years he has been even more veteran contract vs rookie contract heavy which might have had to do with Brady's age and the window for the team and also because his drafts were not particularly fruitful from 2017, 2018, and 2019 (yet). 2017 is just Wise. 2018 is just Wynn, Michel, Bentley, and Izzo, and 2019 you didn't see many contributions yet. You can add to that JC Jackson and Jakobi Meyers as UDFA's.
 

SMU_Sox

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BB likes to spend on the middle class instead of having a top heavy roster like a lot of the teams in the NFL have. I'd say its worked out well for the last 20 years and that I will trust his judgement on how to manage the cap.
@bsj A couple of things come to mind. BB leads the NFL in contracts over 1m every year. BB pays for a middle class of players and that impacts the cap. During the last 4-5 years he has been even more veteran contract vs rookie contract heavy which might have had to do with Brady's age and the window for the team and also because his drafts were not particularly fruitful from 2017, 2018, and 2019 (yet). 2017 is just Wise. 2018 is just Wynn, Michel, Bentley, and Izzo, and 2019 you didn't see many contributions yet. You can add to that JC Jackson and Jakobi Meyers as UDFA's.
You beat me by 20 seconds :)
 

bsj

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BB likes to spend on the middle class instead of having a top heavy roster like a lot of the teams in the NFL have. I'd say its worked out well for the last 20 years and that I will trust his judgement on how to manage the cap.
Yeah just to be clear- not questioning the strategy, was genuinely just looking for clarity. So the middle class theory is a bigger factor than, say, things like dead salary?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I am tempted to break this out but think it may work here. I dont think its a big enough ask to warrant a separate thread, but mods feel free if I am wrong.

I am not a cap expert, not do I have any desire to try to be. but can someone explain to me this- why is it that for a number of years in recent history....not every year, but many, we seem to be in such bad cap shape, yet we are always lacking for offensive weapons? Where is our money going? Every year we see teams like the Browns spend spend spend....yet it seems that most years we are up against it. And now, losing our franchise QB, it still didnt free up enough salary to really do anything of note.

This isnt a complaint or a gripe, i just am curious what the mechanic is. How did this "hole" get formed? Are we paying debts accrued when we were winning (deferrals?) is the the avg for the less glamor positions higher for us so it impedes us elsewhere? Is it just bad luck (Aaron, AB, etc)? And when do we get some legit flexibility back?
In addition to the middle class point already made ...The Patriots have been perhaps the best team in the NFL at managing the cap. But it is still largely cyclical. All it takes is one year to free up a fair amount of space or to put you in a difficult position. A team that it is out of contention can take steps to recharging the cap because cap savings carries over from one year to the next. The Patriots are never out of contention. They are never in position where they can afford not to tack on another million in a given year to deal with a key injury. And they have done a really good job of never mortgaging their future too much unless absolutely necessary.

Good teams rarely have $80 million in space. The Patriots’ current position is largely caused by having had an elite QB for the last 20 years, plus the Antonio Brown experiment. That‘s $22 million for two players not on the team. Add in a few really major defensive players that are very high impact and have helped win championships and who restructured to keep the train on the rails during a run of four Super Bowl experiences and the idea that you would have just one cash strapped year is pretty amazing.

And the good news is that it is likely to be only one cash strapped year. Their cap liabilities for next year are relatively modest and even one year of cost control at the QB position is practically a reset all by itself. If they get AB money back they will be flush.

This is the cost of having been great for a sustained period. It is only temporary.
 

Average Game James

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Also worth noting the Pats will dedicate close to $30mn in cap space to the interior offensive line absent a new contract for Thuney.
 

DJnVa

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This is the cost of having been great for a sustained period. It is only temporary.
Yep. There's been teams out there that have killed their cap for years. The Pats have one semi-tough year after 20 years of excellence. I'm willing to grant that and see what they do.

It'll make Sundays a bit different, but still fun.
 

DJnVa

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I had read that Thuney signed his tender. Under the new CBA, can they negotiate a restructuring or is the one-year rule in place?
Just about every tweet I've seen about him has mentioned they can now restructure or trade.
 

BaseballJones

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Agreed. He's a really good player (pro bowl/all pro in 2018) and will give them at least Harmon's production if not more for a fraction of the cost.
Yeah this seems like a tremendous move by Belichick. Love upgrading at lower cost. That's usually a pretty good way of doing business.

And on that note, wouldn't it be crazy if this year it looked like this...

Brady (if the decline is real; dude will be 43 this year): 60.1%, 3,700 yds, 22 td, 10 int
Stidham (as he grows into the position): 61.5%, 3,500 yds, 20 td, 13 int

In other words...if it was close but Stidham was costing about 1/37th of the cost. That wouldn't be complete insanity, would it?
 

Super Nomario

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Yeah this seems like a tremendous move by Belichick. Love upgrading at lower cost. That's usually a pretty good way of doing business.

And on that note, wouldn't it be crazy if this year it looked like this...

Brady (if the decline is real; dude will be 43 this year): 60.1%, 3,700 yds, 22 td, 10 int
Stidham (as he grows into the position): 61.5%, 3,500 yds, 20 td, 13 int

In other words...if it was close but Stidham was costing about 1/37th of the cost. That wouldn't be complete insanity, would it?
Is this the Bargaining stage of grief or still part of Denial?

Agreed. He's a really good player (pro bowl/all pro in 2018) and will give them at least Harmon's production if not more for a fraction of the cost.
FWIW Phillips was a Pro Bowl / All-Pro as a special teamer, not as a safety. He looks like a useful piece but he's not a Harmon replacement; he's more in the Chung mold.
 

BaseballJones

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Is this the Bargaining stage of grief or still part of Denial?
Haha it very well could be - it's part of the grieving process for sure. But is it completely nuts to think that Brady actually is declining? I've posted before his numbers and they actually have gotten worse year after year the past four seasons.

Last year: 60.8%, 24 td, 8 int. Not crazy to think that he could be at 60%, 22 td, 10 int this coming season.

The question is whether or not Stidham can come close to that.
 

Super Nomario

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Haha it very well could be - it's part of the grieving process for sure. But is it completely nuts to think that Brady actually is declining? I've posted before his numbers and they actually have gotten worse year after year the past four seasons.

Last year: 60.8%, 24 td, 8 int. Not crazy to think that he could be at 60%, 22 td, 10 int this coming season.
As long as you don't think supporting cast matters at all. He's getting a massive receiver upgrade. He could very well play worse and put up much more impressive numbers.

The question is whether or not Stidham can come close to that.
That is also a question, especially with this group of receiving "threats."
 

heavyde050

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Haha it very well could be - it's part of the grieving process for sure. But is it completely nuts to think that Brady actually is declining? I've posted before his numbers and they actually have gotten worse year after year the past four seasons.

Last year: 60.8%, 24 td, 8 int. Not crazy to think that he could be at 60%, 22 td, 10 int this coming season.

The question is whether or not Stidham can come close to that.
I agree there has definitely been some decline (part of that is Brady, a bit more is his supporting cast). But for context, he was probably playing the best football of his career (GOAT) if you go back the last four years (2016-2019).
So yeah, I am 100% on board with he almost certainly isn't going to win an NFL MVP award again or be the best QB in the league. But given a decent supporting cast, he could still be a top 10 QB next year and is absolutely capable of winning a SB if he gets there.
 

BaseballJones

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As long as you don't think supporting cast matters at all. He's getting a massive receiver upgrade. He could very well play worse and put up much more impressive numbers.
Better receivers. Worse offensive line. New system. Maybe very limited time to actually work with his guys. Plus he's a year older.

Last four years:

2016 (age 39): 67.4%, 8.2 y/a, 6.5 TD%, 0.5 INT%, 112.2 rating
2017 (age 40): 66.3%, 7.9 y/a, 5.5 TD%, 1.4 INT%, 102.8 rating
2018 (age 41): 65.8%, 7.6 y/a, 5.1 TD%, 1.9 INT%, 97.7 rating
2019 (age 42): 60.8%, 6.6 y/a, 3.9 TD%, 1.3 INT%, 88.0 rating

There's still nobody I'd rather have as my QB for one game to win it all. But he's definitely no longer the best QB in the league, and his numbers and the trend above just aren't hard to see. Less talent? Sure, and that impacts his numbers. But he's going to be 43 with this trend. It wouldn't surprise me at ALL for him to put up worse numbers in 2020 than he did in 2019.

Then again, it's Tom F-ing Brady, so maybe he goes OFF this coming year.
 

Super Nomario

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Better receivers. Worse offensive line. New system. Maybe very limited time to actually work with his guys. Plus he's a year older.

Last four years:

2016 (age 39): 67.4%, 8.2 y/a, 6.5 TD%, 0.5 INT%, 112.2 rating
2017 (age 40): 66.3%, 7.9 y/a, 5.5 TD%, 1.4 INT%, 102.8 rating
2018 (age 41): 65.8%, 7.6 y/a, 5.1 TD%, 1.9 INT%, 97.7 rating
2019 (age 42): 60.8%, 6.6 y/a, 3.9 TD%, 1.3 INT%, 88.0 rating

There's still nobody I'd rather have as my QB for one game to win it all. But he's definitely no longer the best QB in the league, and his numbers and the trend above just aren't hard to see. Less talent? Sure, and that impacts his numbers. But he's going to be 43 with this trend. It wouldn't surprise me at ALL for him to put up worse numbers in 2020 than he did in 2019.

Then again, it's Tom F-ing Brady, so maybe he goes OFF this coming year.
The "trend" is clear, but you're not comparing apples to apples. Give 2016 Brady hurt Sanu and washed up Watson and half a season of Harry not knowing what he's doing and what do his numbers look like? Give 2019 Brady Gronk/ Bennett and Dola as a fourth receiver, etc., and what do his numbers look like? I'm not saying there's zero decline on Brady's part, but the supporting cast dropped off massively.

100% of QBs see production fluctuate with supporting cast and Brady is no exception. Pundits buried him in 2013 and 2014 too and then they put quality talent around him again and he turned in those 16/17 seasons.
 

BaseballJones

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The "trend" is clear, but you're not comparing apples to apples. Give 2016 Brady hurt Sanu and washed up Watson and half a season of Harry not knowing what he's doing and what do his numbers look like? Give 2019 Brady Gronk/ Bennett and Dola as a fourth receiver, etc., and what do his numbers look like? I'm not saying there's zero decline on Brady's part, but the supporting cast dropped off massively.

100% of QBs see production fluctuate with supporting cast and Brady is no exception. Pundits buried him in 2013 and 2014 too and then they put quality talent around him again and he turned in those 16/17 seasons.
No, I get that. But you're never truly comparing apples to apples. Sometimes a QB's production is impacted by his defense being awesome, or awful. Or by the fact that a teammate - same player as the year before - suddenly makes the Leap to greatness. Or an OLineman goes down and now the QB is getting killed.

I'd say the 2016 team didn't have worlds of talent. Wasn't bad, but wasn't all-world. No Gronkowski for one. Edelman was really good. Blount was solid in the running game but only had a 3.9 yard average. Bennett was better than what they had this year but he wasn't anything like Gronk. Hogan was pretty decent, but Mitchell (who was great in the SB, of course), was pedestrian during the regular season with just 32 receptions. Amendola only had 23 receptions during the regular season.

So yes, I think the cast around Brady definitely impacted his numbers. But he had an all-world defense CONSTANTLY giving him the ball in great field position this year. So that has to be factored in as well. So yes, worse cast, but the numbers still heading in a downward direction. And frankly, it would be silly to think that at age 43 he would be playing some of his best football. Is it possible? It's TOM BRADY, so of course it's possible. But like I said, it wouldn't surprise me, and shouldn't surprise anyone, if his numbers were worse this coming year than they were this past year.
 

Captaincoop

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Haha it very well could be - it's part of the grieving process for sure. But is it completely nuts to think that Brady actually is declining? I've posted before his numbers and they actually have gotten worse year after year the past four seasons.

Last year: 60.8%, 24 td, 8 int. Not crazy to think that he could be at 60%, 22 td, 10 int this coming season.

The question is whether or not Stidham can come close to that.
None of that is crazy. Brady's floor is a lot lower than that.
 

tims4wins

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None of that is crazy. Brady's floor is a lot lower than that.
This may be pure Pats propaganda but from Curran’s article today

Personal agitations aside, New England represented the best chance for Brady to win and close his career chasing championships.
“If he goes, it’s a mistake,” was the tidy summation I got from one source.
What Brady doesn’t appreciate, another source told me, was the myriad things in place in Foxboro that ensured a winning culture. Facilities. Nutritionists. Daily scheduling. Situational smarts.
The institutional knowledge in place in Foxboro built up over two decades of Brady working with the same head coach and owner meant any other franchise is utterly beyond compare. Never mind the differences on the field where Brady — who wrote the book on cautious and controlled quarterback play — is now joining a grip-it and rip-it head coach who’s never seen a 10-yard route he couldn’t turn into a 20-yard route.
Brady is brilliant. Unparalleled, the thinking goes. But I clearly got the impression that folks in Foxboro believe the secret sauce to the team’s success is the way it does things as much as who is doing them.
That secret sauce, they believe, doesn’t travel well.
 

Harry Hooper

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This may be pure Pats propaganda but from Curran’s article today

Personal agitations aside, New England represented the best chance for Brady to win and close his career chasing championships.
“If he goes, it’s a mistake,” was the tidy summation I got from one source.
What Brady doesn’t appreciate, another source told me, was the myriad things in place in Foxboro that ensured a winning culture. Facilities. Nutritionists. Daily scheduling. Situational smarts.
The institutional knowledge in place in Foxboro built up over two decades of Brady working with the same head coach and owner meant any other franchise is utterly beyond compare. Never mind the differences on the field where Brady — who wrote the book on cautious and controlled quarterback play — is now joining a grip-it and rip-it head coach who’s never seen a 10-yard route he couldn’t turn into a 20-yard route.
Brady is brilliant. Unparalleled, the thinking goes. But I clearly got the impression that folks in Foxboro believe the secret sauce to the team’s success is the way it does things as much as who is doing them.
That secret sauce, they believe, doesn’t travel well.

If you recall the comments from the Washington players after a couple of joint practices, Tom definitely has considerable work on his plate striving to establish a new way of doing things with most NFL teams. Add in possible limited OTAs and training camp time, and it will be even tougher.
 

tims4wins

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If you recall the comments from the Washington players after a couple of joint practices, Tom definitely has considerable work on his plate striving to establish a new way of doing things with most NFL teams. Add in possible limited OTAs and training camp time, and it will be even tougher.
Completely agree.
 

heavyde050

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This may be pure Pats propaganda but from Curran’s article today

Personal agitations aside, New England represented the best chance for Brady to win and close his career chasing championships.
“If he goes, it’s a mistake,” was the tidy summation I got from one source.
What Brady doesn’t appreciate, another source told me, was the myriad things in place in Foxboro that ensured a winning culture. Facilities. Nutritionists. Daily scheduling. Situational smarts.
The institutional knowledge in place in Foxboro built up over two decades of Brady working with the same head coach and owner meant any other franchise is utterly beyond compare. Never mind the differences on the field where Brady — who wrote the book on cautious and controlled quarterback play — is now joining a grip-it and rip-it head coach who’s never seen a 10-yard route he couldn’t turn into a 20-yard route.
Brady is brilliant. Unparalleled, the thinking goes. But I clearly got the impression that folks in Foxboro believe the secret sauce to the team’s success is the way it does things as much as who is doing them.
That secret sauce, they believe, doesn’t travel well.
I know the Patriots will be fine, but if the organization really thinks the dynasty is just going to roll on without Brady, they are all probably in for disappointment. I mean every great dynasty eventually ends (the 49ers, the Steelers, the Cowboys, etc.), and that is okay. The Pats have had a great 20 years. I just don't ever want the Pats to go back to laughingstock, which I know BB will not let happen.
To the specific points of the article, I truly believe after last year (and the current cap situation) that the chasing of championships in New England is going to be put on hold for at least a couple of seasons.
 

tims4wins

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I know the Patriots will be fine, but if the organization really thinks the dynasty is just going to roll on without Brady, they are all probably in for disappointment. I mean every great dynasty eventually ends (the 49ers, the Steelers, the Cowboys, etc.), and that is okay. The Pats have had a great 20 years. I just don't ever want the Pats to go back to laughingstock, which I know BB will not let happen.
To the specific points of the article, I truly believe after last year (and the current cap situation) that the chasing of championships in New England is going to be put on hold for at least a couple of seasons.
I don’t take it so much as the dynasty will roll on so much as that Brady doesn’t truly understand how much the organizational setup contributes to his annual success.
 

tims4wins

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That makes more sense. I don't agree with it, but makes more sense than my interpretation.
Personally I do agree with it. So much of the offense is built on trust, communication, reps. Predictability. I am skeptical he can come close to replicating that in Tampa.
 

Super Nomario

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I'd say the 2016 team didn't have worlds of talent. Wasn't bad, but wasn't all-world. No Gronkowski for one. Edelman was really good. Blount was solid in the running game but only had a 3.9 yard average. Bennett was better than what they had this year but he wasn't anything like Gronk. Hogan was pretty decent, but Mitchell (who was great in the SB, of course), was pedestrian during the regular season with just 32 receptions. Amendola only had 23 receptions during the regular season.
Amendola and Mitchell had comparatively few receptions because that was probably the deepest receiving corps Brady ever had, with two quality TEs, two quality receiving backs (once Lewis returned), and four quality WR. It did drop off after Gronk's injury (Brady's numbers were on par with 2007 before that) but that was a stacked group. This year, they had two quality receivers much of the year, and they voluntarily took White off the field half the time.

The greatest Patriots offense's really have been defined by that kind of depth: Moss and Welker were there in 2009, but with Sam Aiken instead of Stallworth and Gaffney, things weren't nearly as pretty. Give me five quality options over two stars any day. And last year, they didn't have either one.

This may be pure Pats propaganda but from Curran’s article today

Personal agitations aside, New England represented the best chance for Brady to win and close his career chasing championships.
“If he goes, it’s a mistake,” was the tidy summation I got from one source.
What Brady doesn’t appreciate, another source told me, was the myriad things in place in Foxboro that ensured a winning culture. Facilities. Nutritionists. Daily scheduling. Situational smarts.
The institutional knowledge in place in Foxboro built up over two decades of Brady working with the same head coach and owner meant any other franchise is utterly beyond compare. Never mind the differences on the field where Brady — who wrote the book on cautious and controlled quarterback play — is now joining a grip-it and rip-it head coach who’s never seen a 10-yard route he couldn’t turn into a 20-yard route.
Brady is brilliant. Unparalleled, the thinking goes. But I clearly got the impression that folks in Foxboro believe the secret sauce to the team’s success is the way it does things as much as who is doing them.
That secret sauce, they believe, doesn’t travel well.
I'm sure this is true to a degree. There is going to be some culture shock for Brady. How much that hurts him on the field, we'll see. Arians has had some success and a good reputation, so I'd probably worry more about this if he were signing with a crappy coach. It's also possible Arians will defer on some items to Brady's comfort. We may never know how much this stuff comes up.

I also think it might run the other way; Stidham (or whoever the QB is) will certainly do some things differently and probably worse than Brady did in little ways that are hard to define and impossible to coach. I remember Brady sitting in the meeting with Belichick and making suggestions for pieces they could put in certain plays. O'Brien and McDaniels have both talked about how Brady's level of preparation made them better coaches. Is Stidham going to do that? Is Cam Newton or Andy Dalton? I'll believe it when I see it. We've also seen abrasive styles from Belichick disciples O'Brien and Patricia rub some players the wrong way, and Belichick is not exactly known for being warm and cuddly. Is his sarcasm and negativity going to play as well when the players don't have Brady as an example, taking it on the chin?

It's very possible that the answer to "was it Brady or Belichick" winds up being "the whole was greater than the sum of the parts." But it seems like both sides were ready to move on, and maybe both will be energized by the new challenge ahead.
 

Bowser

lurker
Sep 27, 2019
19
Here's a vote for a more comprehensive churning of the Pats' roster, with an eye toward youth and/or value. A few ruthless cuts will open up cap space that could be more efficiently spent. In particular I'm looking at:

Player (age in 2020) / Replacement / Cap Savings (cost of cutting player)

Stephen Gostkowski (36) / FA or draft pick / $3.4M
Rex Burkhead (30) / Dan Vitale / $2.9M
Patrick Chung (33) / Adrian Phillips / $2.0M
Brandon Bolden (30) / Damien Harris / $1.5M
James Develin (32) / Jakob Johnson / $1.2M

Note: all $$$ from Spotrac.

This saves $11.0M, less the cost of a kicker. Throw in added room from extending Hightower and/or Thuney, and renegotiating or cutting Cannon and Sanu, and we're looking at a nice boost in cap space without much (if any) loss in production.

Glad to hear we're looking at Derek Wolfe. I'd consider Breshad Perriman, Tyler Eifert (or Nick Vannett), Brandon Copeland. Maybe even Logan Ryan.
 

BaseballJones

goalpost mover
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
7,887
Here's a vote for a more comprehensive churning of the Pats' roster, with an eye toward youth and/or value. A few ruthless cuts will open up cap space that could be more efficiently spent. In particular I'm looking at:

Player (age in 2020) / Replacement / Cap Savings (cost of cutting player)

Stephen Gostkowski (36) / FA or draft pick / $3.4M
Rex Burkhead (30) / Dan Vitale / $2.9M
Patrick Chung (33) / Adrian Phillips / $2.0M
Brandon Bolden (30) / Damien Harris / $1.5M
James Develin (32) / Jakob Johnson / $1.2M

Note: all $$$ from Spotrac.

This saves $11.0M, less the cost of a kicker. Throw in added room from extending Hightower and/or Thuney, and renegotiating or cutting Cannon and Sanu, and we're looking at a nice boost in cap space without much (if any) loss in production.

Glad to hear we're looking at Derek Wolfe. I'd consider Breshad Perriman, Tyler Eifert (or Nick Vannett), Brandon Copeland. Maybe even Logan Ryan.
Definitely some good ideas here. I'd cut Ghost and roll with a college kicker (since I don't think the Pats are going to go deep in the playoffs this year, now's as good a time as any to get the next generation kicker). I'm ok with cutting Burkhead...I think they can replace him easily enough for less. Bolden --> Harris makes sense, as they have a lot of quality special teamers. Though BB loves him some BB. I don't think I'd cut Chung, given that they just traded Harmon. Gotta have a good set of safeties back there. McCourty and Phillips sure, but what after that?
 

Bowser

lurker
Sep 27, 2019
19
No problem with keeping Chung, though he and Harmon don't do the same thing. The best in-house replacement for Harmon is probably Jason McCourty...



... with JC Jackson starting opposite Gilmore. Defensive snaps last year:

S Gilmore: 94%
D McCourty: 93%
J Jackson: 68%
D Harmon: 65%
P Chung: 64%
J McCourty: 47%
J Jones: 40%
T Brooks: 27%
J Willliams: 8%
O Melifonwu: 0%

One player who needs to be given a chance to step up is Joejuan Williams, though he's not a CF type either. In general, we need to start getting meaningful contributions from some of the players on rookie deals -- Harry, Williams, Winovich, Harris, Cajuste, Froholdt, Cowart ... and Stid.
 
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SMU_Sox

loves his fluffykins
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
6,382
Dallas
I finished up looking at running backs in this draft class and it got me thinking about the current stable. Rex Burkhead is their best all around back but he isn’t a full-time player, he’s on the last year of his deal and he will be on the wrong side of 30 when the season ends. He’s a nice complimentary back but cutting or trading him saves 2.9M. I could see the Bucs having some interest in him as TB12’s safety blanket.

If the Patriots want to be a run-heavy team would it make sense to spend a late day 2 or early day 3 pick on a potential starter upgrade over Sony or an untested Harris?
I think someone like AJ Dillon or Zack Moss makes a lot of sense for what they run in the 4th. Just curious if anyone has an appetite for potentially upgrading that spot and if so when.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
15,690
I finished up looking at running backs in this draft class and it got me thinking about the current stable. Rex Burkhead is their best all around back but he isn’t a full-time player, he’s on the last year of his deal and he will be on the wrong side of 30 when the season ends. He’s a nice complimentary back but cutting or trading him saves 2.9M. I could see the Bucs having some interest in him as TB12’s safety blanket.

If the Patriots want to be a run-heavy team would it make sense to spend a late day 2 or early day 3 pick on a potential starter upgrade over Sony or an untested Harris?
I think someone like AJ Dillon or Zack Moss makes a lot of sense for what they run in the 4th. Just curious if anyone has an appetite for potentially upgrading that spot and if so when.
I'm very intrigued by Darrynton Evans from App. St. Little small (5'10" 205) but has 3 down skillset if he's in a rotation. Great speed, and other measurables, and impressively didn't fumble once in 482 carries.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
39,703
Why would they use draft choice for untested guy to replace untested Harris? Just try Harris.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
26,769
The lack of decent TE options might tip the scales towards keeping Burkhead given his pass-catching abilities.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
15,690
Why would they use draft choice for untested guy to replace untested Harris? Just try Harris.
Well the obvious answer is if you think he's better. However, I don't know that drafting a RB means replacing Harris anyway if it's a later round pick. The core is old and/or oft injured, bringing in a late round pick who you can either cut someone to keep, or hide on the practice squad seems like it could be a good idea.