2020 Golf Thread

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
18,019
3ish months until golf season here in Massachusetts. Can't come soon enough.

Everyone ready for the new handicap system?
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

has big, douchey shoulders
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I barely played in 2019 because of a new job that had me commuting out of town. So my game is rusty, although the few times I did play, I did surprisingly well. Probably fewer swing thoughts in my head.
Anyway, last week my friend who lives at Desert Mountain invited me back to his Member/Guest, the same one I went to two years ago. I think it's the biggest in the country. I've played some amazing golf courses over the years, I've made a hole in one, but I think that event was the greatest golf experience of my life. Everything is just completely first rate, from the organization to the formats to the food/drink to the swag. So while it's a considerable time commitment(basically Tues-Sun), I just can't pass it up. I'm very excited, but damn, I have to find a way to get some practice in before the end of April.
 

Zomp

Dope
Dope
Aug 28, 2006
11,833
The Slums of Shaolin
I went to Newport Indoor Golf this morning. 5 golf simulators all using Trackman.

A buddy and I went for an hour. First time hitting in about 3 months so it was rough going but we each warmed up and played about 7 holes on the simulator. It was $60 for the hour on the bay which seems in line with other places.

They have a deal, $250 for the month for 7 hours of bay time, and you can split it with as many people as you want. We may take advantage and try to go once per week for the next few months. Generally I am pretty meh on simulators but from what I understand the Trackman is the gold standard so its better than nothing.
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
18,019
I went to Newport Indoor Golf this morning. 5 golf simulators all using Trackman.

A buddy and I went for an hour. First time hitting in about 3 months so it was rough going but we each warmed up and played about 7 holes on the simulator. It was $60 for the hour on the bay which seems in line with other places.

They have a deal, $250 for the month for 7 hours of bay time, and you can split it with as many people as you want. We may take advantage and try to go once per week for the next few months. Generally I am pretty meh on simulators but from what I understand the Trackman is the gold standard so its better than nothing.
My buddies and I go about once a week in the winter. Partially just to get out and half fun and then also to scratch the golf itch. We know it’s not entirely realistic but it’s fun to swing and have a couple beers. The place in Westborough we go to has 8 bays at $50/hr, and they usually get us on early/let us stay late if it’s not booked.

We have 8 of us going this afternoon in 2 bays for 3 hours. Should be fun.
 

Phragle

wild card bitches
SoSH Member
Jan 1, 2009
12,879
Carmine's closet
I went to Newport Indoor Golf this morning. 5 golf simulators all using Trackman.

A buddy and I went for an hour. First time hitting in about 3 months so it was rough going but we each warmed up and played about 7 holes on the simulator. It was $60 for the hour on the bay which seems in line with other places.

They have a deal, $250 for the month for 7 hours of bay time, and you can split it with as many people as you want. We may take advantage and try to go once per week for the next few months. Generally I am pretty meh on simulators but from what I understand the Trackman is the gold standard so its better than nothing.
That's a great deal for a Trackman
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
18,019
A bunch of courses are open this weekend with the temps into the 60s...
 

jercra

Member
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Jul 31, 2006
2,060
Arvada, Co
Just back from 4 days/4 rounds at Bandon Dunes as per usual. I cannot putt there for some reason. 15 of 18 GIR including 3/4 par 3s in under reg for a weak sauce 77 tonwtap up the trip. Much of the same on 3verybother course. Played the day before in Portland and shot 72. Played the day after in Denver and shot 72. I wonder if non-stop drinking for 5 days could have something to do with it...

For any Denver peeps, the Trackman in Superior at fairways golf is also $60/hr. The regular Sim is $30/hr
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
18,019
So as many know, I've spent the last year learning how to swing correctly (aka not having the clubface wide open at the top). While it's never perfect, I've made a ton of progress on that front, first with irons then with driver/woods. However, as a result, I've kept my driver in play a lot, but lost a TON of distance. Like...barely hitting it 200-210 yards despite feeling like it was a good strike off the center of the club face.

As I mentioned, my buddies and I go to the simulator a bunch, which naturally shows you your distances when you hit. While I don't consider them gospel on an absolute basis, I was finding that despite hitting the ball seemingly well, I was 40-50 yards behind my friends. Carrying 185-190 with rolling out to 200-205. They would consistently be between 220-260, so I knew something was up. I don't need to be a long hitter...but this wasn't right.

So I did a bunch of research and booked an hour at the simulator by myself to record my stats and figure out what the issue was. And it was super enlightening. I had a swing speed between 95-100mph (average 97) and a ball speed around 130-140mph (average 1.38 smash factor) which were right about where I expected. Smash factor could be a touch higher but it wasn't the root cause. That should give me at least a 220-230 carry with roll out to 240-250 (what I would like). But...I was launching it at 7-10 degrees with really low spin (900-2k rpm) with carries in the 180-190 range. This made total sense now - with that low swing speed, low launch, and low spin...bad results ensued. I tried focusing on hitting up on the ball a bit and launching it higher and got back to regular numbers, but it felt weird and I was fighting my driver.

So my conclusion is that I need a new driver. Mine is 4 years old, but it's built for someone with way higher swing speeds and a different swing than I have now. Got an appointment next weekend at True Spec in Waltham which I got multiple recommendations for. Will be interested to see what I end up with, but looking forward to (hopefully) being able to get off the tee again.
 
Last edited:

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
SoSH Member
Feb 22, 2004
10,269
The Paris of the 80s
That ball speed looks low for that swing speed. Assuming good contact. 97+ should get you consistently over 140.

Biggest problem looks like the launch angle. Add 5 degrees there and the spin will increase and carry by miles.

Did the monitor track attack angle? That would be helpful to know. You want something like 3 degrees up attack, then another 10 for the club and sit around 12-14 launch. The low launch and low spin feels like a too little loft and too little upward attack angle combo.

It’s like the best time ever to buy a driver. I’m right with you swing speed wise and picked up an M5 last year. It was game changing. Dialing in the weights helped a ton in terms of managing ball flight.
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
18,019
Yeah I couldn't get angle of attack, which I was curious about. I have no doubt I'm too steep there, as I tried hitting up on the ball more and it improved the results. But it felt awkward and my driver felt too heavy to that, for lack of a better description. I wanted to increase the loft on my current driver (Ping G series, 10.5*, Tour65 shaft) but the head was stuck and I didn't want to break it in the simulator. I think I could manage along with my current driver, but a new one will work wonders. I also have an entirely different swing and game than I did when I got this current one, so it's no surprise that it's not ideal anymore. My brother and 2 of my good friends all got fitted for drivers in the past year and the results are astounding for them, so hopefully for me too. I am only debating if I want to do all fairway woods or just driver, as I have the same issues with my fairway woods as well.
 

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
SoSH Member
Feb 22, 2004
10,269
The Paris of the 80s
The Tour 65 shaft is well regarded fwiw.

The G was the middle of the road head for that generation. It didn’t have the draw bias of the SFT (which was mostly targeted at lower swing speeds) or the low spin design of the LST (which probably would have been ever worse for your swing).

tl:dr tech likely isn’t the primary problem, or a magic bullet here. You’re kind of rocking the can work for many people build.

BUT, I had a G driver and know about. The replacement G400 series was a big generational jump and the 410s are even better. The G is dated tech at this point.
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
18,019
The shaft is good, I just think not for me. It's generally a low launch shaft and works better for higher swing speeds. I've lost about 10 mph of swing speed over the last 3-4 years, partially by design, partially due to age, so I'm sure that's a factor. I'd like to try both a shorter and lighter shaft to see if that improves results.

I'm under no illusions that this is a magic bullet, but I think it will definitely improve by being fitted to my swing now, versus my completely different swing of 4 years ago. Excited to see what happens.
 

jercra

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
2,060
Arvada, Co
Getting fit will certainly help but one cautious note on your numbers because many simulators don't actually measure all of the numbers, but calculate them based on what they do measure. When you get fit, hopefully it will be on a Trackman, and even ideally it will be on a Trackman where you hit onto an actual range instead of in a bay. You should also be able to get the stats from the session sent to you via email. It would be cool to see them posted in here for all us amateur swing analysts :)
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
18,019
Good point on the simulator. It's at True Spec which is indoor but with Trackman or Trackman like equivalent. It's supposed to be best in the business based on personal recommendations and what I'm reading online as well. I didn't love my last experience at Joe and Leigh's so looking for something a little better.

I'll 100% share my results here. I'm fascinated by this stuff, I just find it really interesting.
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
18,019
(And yes, I'm regretting not taking advantage of the free full bag fitting promo there back in October)
 

4 6 3 DP

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 24, 2001
1,962
I've been fit by everyone in Mass. True spec does a good job. Their head fitter is excellent
 

jercra

Member
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Jul 31, 2006
2,060
Arvada, Co
This was a new one for me today...

Played in the cold and wind in Denver and shot a tidy 36 on the back with the following: par, bogey, birdie, bogey, birdie, bogey, birdie, bogey, birdie.

WTF kind of stupid shit is that?
 

Phragle

wild card bitches
SoSH Member
Jan 1, 2009
12,879
Carmine's closet
So as many know, I've spent the last year learning how to swing correctly (aka not having the clubface wide open at the top). While it's never perfect, I've made a ton of progress on that front, first with irons then with driver/woods. However, as a result, I've kept my driver in play a lot, but lost a TON of distance. Like...barely hitting it 200-210 yards despite feeling like it was a good strike off the center of the club face.

As I mentioned, my buddies and I go to the simulator a bunch, which naturally shows you your distances when you hit. While I don't consider them gospel on an absolute basis, I was finding that despite hitting the ball seemingly well, I was 40-50 yards behind my friends. Carrying 185-190 with rolling out to 200-205. They would consistently be between 220-260, so I knew something was up. I don't need to be a long hitter...but this wasn't right.

So I did a bunch of research and booked an hour at the simulator by myself to record my stats and figure out what the issue was. And it was super enlightening. I had a swing speed between 95-100mph (average 97) and a ball speed around 130-140mph (average 1.38 smash factor) which were right about where I expected. Smash factor could be a touch higher but it wasn't the root cause. That should give me at least a 220-230 carry with roll out to 240-250 (what I would like). But...I was launching it at 7-10 degrees with really low spin (900-2k rpm) with carries in the 180-190 range. This made total sense now - with that low swing speed, low launch, and low spin...bad results ensued. I tried focusing on hitting up on the ball a bit and launching it higher and got back to regular numbers, but it felt weird and I was fighting my driver.

So my conclusion is that I need a new driver. Mine is 4 years old, but it's built for someone with way higher swing speeds and a different swing than I have now. Got an appointment next weekend at True Spec in Waltham which I got multiple recommendations for. Will be interested to see what I end up with, but looking forward to (hopefully) being able to get off the tee again.
I agree with most of your analysis but think your conclusion is wrong. The launch and spin are certainly low, but the swing speed is fine. The driver is likely a decently good fit – the G head is high launching and forgiving, and the Tour 65 is a fine shaft for your swing speed. The smash factor is bad – it’s an indicator of poor contact. To me anything under 1.42 is a mishit. I’d work on trying to make better contact first. I don’t know anything about True Spec but they should be able to help too.

I put some numbers into flight scope’s trajectory optimizer

184 carry, 236 total are your current numbers
201 carry – 234 total are your current numbers but with more launch and spin you can expect from a high lofted head
213 carry – 253 total are your current numbers but with better smash
224 carry – 252 total are your current numbers but with better smash and a higher launching head

You can hit up on the ball and that should get you higher launch without adding more spin but distance is really about ball speed and the easiest gains there are making better contact.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

Member
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Nov 19, 2008
3,321
TFP- Have you tried using impact tape during any of your sessions? This would be an easy way for you to confirm if you're making solid contact or not.

They sell packs of them for under $10 at golf stores. My local place just gave me a handful for free when I asked if they had them for sale. There are some homemade options you can use if you want to save a few bucks (I've seen people spray sunscreen/foot spray on the face of the club to get a similar result).
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
18,019
TFP- Have you tried using impact tape during any of your sessions? This would be an easy way for you to confirm if you're making solid contact or not.

They sell packs of them for under $10 at golf stores. My local place just gave me a handful for free when I asked if they had them for sale. There are some homemade options you can use if you want to save a few bucks (I've seen people spray sunscreen/foot spray on the face of the club to get a similar result).
I'm not, but the face usually shows pretty clearly where I hit them, especially with these balls. I'm sure I'm not absolutely puring them, but I'm definitely hitting them pretty close to the center of the club face including some dead center. This all started with me wondering if my driver had a flaw in it (doubtful - that's very rare for a driver this young) but I'm not ruling it out.

I'll be very curious what the fitting says at this point, I'm dying to know what the issue is and if it's the carpenter, the tool, or a combo of both. If I'm not hitting them dead center, then a shorter/lighter driver might help there and increase ball speed even if swing speed goes down a touch.
 

Phragle

wild card bitches
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Jan 1, 2009
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If the 1.38 smash is real, and I don't know that it is, then contact is certainly poor. Most simulators will not record a real smash factor. A radar like a Trackman or camera like a GC quad will, but probably not on lesser equipment.

For reference from Trackman's site
Screen Shot 2020-01-15 at 4.09.50 PM.png
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
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Dec 2, 2006
13,111
Tuukka's refugee camp
I’ve had a lesson there. Good setup and gives you all your stats so you can start isolating problems. It’s definitely legit.
 

4 6 3 DP

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Oct 24, 2001
1,962
Im always a little concerned about humblebrag stuff but I wanted to share some thoughts about a bunch of the courses I've gotten to play over the last while that some of you guys might travel to or be interested in while we wait for winter to end.

I just got back from Hilton Head and played Harbor Town - very fun course, some good Pete Dye bunker work, holes along the water are beautiful and challenging - 18 is pretty iconic if you've seen it on TV. I would say that I wouldn't call it an absolute must play but it's a very very good golf course that you can play for reasonable prices off season.

Kiawah Ocean - bucket list, do it, sensational, one of those courses that I didn't even play well at and loved every minute of. Just do it. I didn't stay on the island but it looked very nice to stay at.

TPC Scottsdale Stadium - fun, pretty course. Stadium hole is visually very cool like on TV. Back nine is much more striking than front nine, which is more kind of holes through a subdivision at least for the first 4-6 holes but it's visually impressive. And putting is a bitch here - putts seem to break in the wrong direction.

Championsgate (orlando) - fun courses both international and national, very good and playable Florida course. Pretty well located. Great hotel/resort

Reunion (orlando - palmer) not a great course, but fun to play, nice site

Innisbrook (Island and Copper) - Copperhead is a very fun golf course, obviously hosts the Valspar. I really liked that course. Hard, but fair. Worth the money. The island course was pretty forgettable to me and I would pay more to play Copper twice...

Streamsong Black - I'm a member of a Hanse course up here so I'd say the design similarities are apparent - I liked this course but didn't love it - if you like blind shots and the like, this would be your kind of course. The facility is impressive though - it's visually a stunning place, in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do except be there, but it's beautiful. I'm not sure for the money and time spent to get there I wouldn't pick other options though.
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
18,019
Not a humblebrag at all - great recap. Was this all on one trip? And did you only play the Black course at Streamsong?

Streamsong Black - I'm a member of a Hanse course up here
There's only a few candidates for this and they all lead me to believe I'd love to be your guest for a round this summer.
 

4 6 3 DP

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Oct 24, 2001
1,962
Lets make it happen.

It's been a number of trips over the last year combining work with playing on the Golf Channel Am Tour (worth looking into if you like to travel golf) and other hookups.

Streamsong I only played the Black. If I went back I'd do all of them and see which one I liked the most. It's worth playing - I just don't know if I was going to fly to Tampa if I wouldn't recommend doing Innisbrook instead -less drive, visually not as impressive but very fun, playable golf course(s).

I honestly think the dream weekend that you could reasonably do from the Northeast is HarbourTown/Kiawah Ocean. I couldn't pull off Daniel Island when I was down there which stunk - We did do Country Club of Charleston which was thecourse that had the womens major last year and that was a delightful old southern golf course.

One of the things I've learned with golf reviews is it helps to know what people like and don't like - for example, I've been blessed to play Eastward Ho several times but I don't love that course. It's tricked up as far as Im concerned while visually stunning. Hyannisport has great views and is a pretty traditional Ross course...so I'd rather play that. I probably enjoy resort courses more than most - good, playable courses that don't screw with you too much but give you a great challenge.
 

Zomp

Dope
Dope
Aug 28, 2006
11,833
The Slums of Shaolin
I’m interested in selling my Rogue diver and 3 wood (replacing them in April).

Anyone know what the best sites are to do that? They are in excellent condition. Probably 8.5/10.
 

Phragle

wild card bitches
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Jan 1, 2009
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I use ebay a lot and WRX a little. Your best option is check your email for ebay promotions like reduced selling fees or cash rewards, and then sell them with a fixed price.
 

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
SoSH Member
Feb 22, 2004
10,269
The Paris of the 80s
Re: golf simulators, my brother joined some place with bays in Boston this winter. Apparently there you need to set the launch monitor to be accurate since the default setting mutes sidespin.

Also, for equipment junkies, Scotty Cameron’s new retail putters are out and they look awesome. The craptacular insert is gone and they’re just really clean looking milled putters.
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
18,019
So I went to TrueSpec Saturday for the driver fitting. First thing - Nick there is great and the whole facility is top notch. I like it a lot and highly recommend it to anyone who is considering fitting. Best experience I've had.

So going in, I was a little sore and stiff. I skated both Thurs/Fri nights and didn't sleep great Fri night, so it wasn't ideal. But I went through the usual fitting process. Hit my current driver, got the numbers I was expecting and had been seeing lately, kinda confirmed what I was saying before, then tried a bunch of new options. New shafts, pretty much every new driver possible, and literally nothing changed. Club speed, ball speed, etc were all decent, contact was inconsistent because my swing did not feel good. But launch was still low, and we realized the angle of attack was really bad. Generally in the 4-6 degrees down range, some even 8 degrees down. Basically I was hitting my driver like an iron regardless of the shaft/head. This also promotes coming over the top. I made a small swing change to try to hit up on the ball to see if that would make a change. With some of the higher launch/kick shafts I felt like it was gonna snap during the swing. So he said let's give the original driver a shot again and boom - I was right back where I wanted to be. 14 degrees launch, 2k rpm backspin, swing much more on plane, face square, carry and total numbers about where I want to be (240 total).

So long story short, it was the carpenter and not the tool (which I expected). But not for efficiency reasons, but rather for angle of attack reasons. Thankfully he didn't pressure me into buying an expensive new driver, and said I can do a follow up fitting if I want once I get the swing locked back in. There are definitely gains to be had, but by the end I was gassed and didn't want to hit any more drivers. So it wasn't the ideal outcome, but it help put me at ease as to what's really going on.

I need to build a personal launch monitor/simulator in my house somehow. I'm officially addicted to this crap.
 

PedroSpecialK

Comes at you like a tornado of hair and the NHL sa
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Dec 12, 2004
25,360
Cambridge, MA
Anyone got any favorite courses in the Tampa area? Gonna be there 3/1-3/4 for the B's game and figured we may as well get a few rounds in on some decent tracks
 

jercra

Member
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Jul 31, 2006
2,060
Arvada, Co
Not sure how much challenge you want, but go play Copperhead at Innisbrook, home of the Valspar. Fantastic track and about 20-30 minutes up the road from Tampa.
 

Phragle

wild card bitches
SoSH Member
Jan 1, 2009
12,879
Carmine's closet
So I went to TrueSpec Saturday for the driver fitting. First thing - Nick there is great and the whole facility is top notch. I like it a lot and highly recommend it to anyone who is considering fitting. Best experience I've had.

So going in, I was a little sore and stiff. I skated both Thurs/Fri nights and didn't sleep great Fri night, so it wasn't ideal. But I went through the usual fitting process. Hit my current driver, got the numbers I was expecting and had been seeing lately, kinda confirmed what I was saying before, then tried a bunch of new options. New shafts, pretty much every new driver possible, and literally nothing changed. Club speed, ball speed, etc were all decent, contact was inconsistent because my swing did not feel good. But launch was still low, and we realized the angle of attack was really bad. Generally in the 4-6 degrees down range, some even 8 degrees down. Basically I was hitting my driver like an iron regardless of the shaft/head. This also promotes coming over the top. I made a small swing change to try to hit up on the ball to see if that would make a change. With some of the higher launch/kick shafts I felt like it was gonna snap during the swing. So he said let's give the original driver a shot again and boom - I was right back where I wanted to be. 14 degrees launch, 2k rpm backspin, swing much more on plane, face square, carry and total numbers about where I want to be (240 total).

So long story short, it was the carpenter and not the tool (which I expected). But not for efficiency reasons, but rather for angle of attack reasons. Thankfully he didn't pressure me into buying an expensive new driver, and said I can do a follow up fitting if I want once I get the swing locked back in. There are definitely gains to be had, but by the end I was gassed and didn't want to hit any more drivers. So it wasn't the ideal outcome, but it help put me at ease as to what's really going on.

I need to build a personal launch monitor/simulator in my house somehow. I'm officially addicted to this crap.
Do you move the ball around in your stance or always have the it in the same spot in relation to you?

Angle of attack is important but not if you throw your swing off in the pursuit of coming up on the ball. What was the angle once things starting going well? Also your angles will affect smash too -- horizontal and vertical.

Let us know when it's built :)
Prices are starting to come down. Hopefully it follows the path of cell phones or flat screen TVs
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
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Dec 4, 2005
18,035
Portsmouth, NH
I’m interested in selling my Rogue diver and 3 wood (replacing them in April).

Anyone know what the best sites are to do that? They are in excellent condition. Probably 8.5/10.
You're probably gonna get more for trading it in than outright selling it, especially when you factor in the hassle of listing it, shipping it, paying fees, etc.

I'd check Ebay but then double up on a site that offers PGA trade in, like 3Balls.com and watch for deals in a couple months at big box stores like Dick's - they often offer 150% trade in value towards a new club and trade in value is determined by PGA, not the individual store.
 

Zomp

Dope
Dope
Aug 28, 2006
11,833
The Slums of Shaolin
I want to geek out a bit on numbers and am looking for help in making sure I'm understanding stuff correctly. I, like always, am trying to find a 3 wood and driver to fit my game. The Rogue was working for me a bit a few seasons back but after having kids and getting out of shape my swing feels different now. I've been going to a trackman simulator once a week with a buddy of mine and we're lucky enough to have access to almost every selection of clubhead and shaft combo that there is.

I have really enjoyed the PING G410 series. These were my average numbers using the G410 3 wood:

Club speed: 100.8
Ball Speed: 147.5
Spin rate: 3209
Attack Angle -4.9
Club Path: 3.9
Smash Factor: 1.46
Face to path: -0.9
Face Angle: 3.0
Carry: 239.5
Total: 247.8

I am just learning about this stuff, but I *think* those numbers are good. The club certainly felt good. Ball flight on the sim looked great. Because I have a steep angle of attack, I was experimenting with a tip soft shaft, getting my best numbers out of the Tensai CK Orange stiff shaft.

Now for the driver, I don't have the numbers but they're pretty similar. I tried the G410 Plus in a 10.5 degree turned to 12 degrees. They didn't have the CK Orange shaft available in a stiff last night, only extra stiff. Swing speed was a little higher, angle of attack a little shallower (around 4), Ball speed with driver was around 152. So look at this chart:


Ping optimal driver launch and spin chart



Optimal launch for my angle of attack and ball speed is 9.8 with 2950 rpm of spin. So should I be hitting a 13 degree driver to offset my -4 angle of attack? I know I can mess with the spin numbers by moving the weights.
 

jercra

Member
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Jul 31, 2006
2,060
Arvada, Co
I don't think it's 1:1 attack angle to driver loft. You should really get the numbers for your driver though. You hit a 3-wood off the ground/short tee and a driver off of a tall tee. That attack angle is likely to be significantly lower. I'd guess, based on the 3-wood numbers, that your -2 attack, 105-107 clubhead and 155-160 ball speed.
 

Zomp

Dope
Dope
Aug 28, 2006
11,833
The Slums of Shaolin
I don't think it's 1:1 attack angle to driver loft. You should really get the numbers for your driver though. You hit a 3-wood off the ground/short tee and a driver off of a tall tee. That attack angle is likely to be significantly lower. I'd guess, based on the 3-wood numbers, that your -2 attack, 105-107 clubhead and 155-160 ball speed.
Right so even if I'm -2 attack, the chart above is saying that optimal launch is 11.1 degrees. So I need a high lofted driver, I'm assuming?
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
18,019
Do you move the ball around in your stance or always have the it in the same spot in relation to you?

Angle of attack is important but not if you throw your swing off in the pursuit of coming up on the ball. What was the angle once things starting going well? Also your angles will affect smash too -- horizontal and vertical.
I usually keep it in the same position, what I think is just inside my front foot. I'm going to start messing around with it though, moving it forward will help me hit up on it but also promotes being over the top. Needless to say, my driver swing needs a lot of work, likely to start from scratch.
 

jercra

Member
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Jul 31, 2006
2,060
Arvada, Co
Right so even if I'm -2 attack, the chart above is saying that optimal launch is 11.1 degrees. So I need a high lofted driver, I'm assuming?
Yeah, I'd likely start with a 10.5 as the "natural" loft that can go up to 11.5-12.5 and then mess with the settings. Depending on the driver you can change the launch a bunch by sliding weights forward and changing where the shaft flexes. Honestly, your clubhead speed is a little low for that angle of attack so I'd see what different shafts and weights do to get that closer to 0. On the flip side, your clubhead speed is high for a stiff flex shaft. You should try out some X shafts. They should drop the spin and decrease dispersion for you.
 

Phragle

wild card bitches
SoSH Member
Jan 1, 2009
12,879
Carmine's closet
You're probably gonna get more for trading it in than outright selling it, especially when you factor in the hassle of listing it, shipping it, paying fees, etc.

I'd check Ebay but then double up on a site that offers PGA trade in, like 3Balls.com and watch for deals in a couple months at big box stores like Dick's - they often offer 150% trade in value towards a new club and trade in value is determined by PGA, not the individual store.
Every quote I've got for trade ins have been laughably low, but with bonuses it's possible they can get close to resale value. It never made sense to me, but if you don't mind store credit and would rather take a $20-50 hit instead of using ebay that's fine too.


I want to geek out a bit on numbers and am looking for help in making sure I'm understanding stuff correctly. I, like always, am trying to find a 3 wood and driver to fit my game. The Rogue was working for me a bit a few seasons back but after having kids and getting out of shape my swing feels different now. I've been going to a trackman simulator once a week with a buddy of mine and we're lucky enough to have access to almost every selection of clubhead and shaft combo that there is.

I have really enjoyed the PING G410 series. These were my average numbers using the G410 3 wood:

Club speed: 100.8
Ball Speed: 147.5
Spin rate: 3209
Attack Angle -4.9
Club Path: 3.9
Smash Factor: 1.46
Face to path: -0.9
Face Angle: 3.0
Carry: 239.5
Total: 247.8

I am just learning about this stuff, but I *think* those numbers are good. The club certainly felt good. Ball flight on the sim looked great. Because I have a steep angle of attack, I was experimenting with a tip soft shaft, getting my best numbers out of the Tensai CK Orange stiff shaft.
Yeah those numbers look fine -- similar to mine, but I don't see launch and that may be the most important number. Optimum depends on what's optimum for you though. I like a 3 wood that launches high because I like to be aggressive and use it into greens, rarely use it off the tee, and I think the high launch helps if my lie is less than perfect. I'm using a Lst 3 wood with a tour 75x 5-wood shaft, a heavy rear weight, and it's in the minus 1 flat setting.

Also FWIW the Lst version is fucking great in the 3 wood, and the Tensei orange is a stiff tip, soft butt shaft designed to launch low. Give the Tour 75x a go next time.

Now for the driver, I don't have the numbers but they're pretty similar. I tried the G410 Plus in a 10.5 degree turned to 12 degrees. They didn't have the CK Orange shaft available in a stiff last night, only extra stiff. Swing speed was a little higher, angle of attack a little shallower (around 4), Ball speed with driver was around 152. So look at this chart:

Optimal launch for my angle of attack and ball speed is 9.8 with 2950 rpm of spin. So should I be hitting a 13 degree driver to offset my -4 angle of attack? I know I can mess with the spin numbers by moving the weights.
So you're saying the launch wasn't high enough?
 

Phragle

wild card bitches
SoSH Member
Jan 1, 2009
12,879
Carmine's closet
I usually keep it in the same position, what I think is just inside my front foot. I'm going to start messing around with it though, moving it forward will help me hit up on it but also promotes being over the top. Needless to say, my driver swing needs a lot of work, likely to start from scratch.
This is a pic I saw years ago that helped get everything going down the right path. Helped come down on the wedges, up on the driver, and straighten out the path for every club. It was a big help.

Also, Idk what angle you're going for w the driver but the nerds at WRX think it can be a little overrated. They don't think you need it up in the 5-6 range anymore but that just 1-2 is fine and that's it's far more important to just stop coming down on it so much.

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