2020 Game Goat Thread: WCG vs Titans

DeadlySplitter

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Chung's reinjury / new injury definitely mattered on the margins... 14 points and another 2nd half shutout is commendable though. I was upset at the defense in the early going but they don't have any goat horns tonight.

that said, they weren't any type of historic defense despite the numbers. the 2015 Denver defense carried a limping Denver offense all the way, that's what we could have used. (then again, were we worse than that offense with the corpse of Manning?)
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Michel is a stiff at times to me and I can’t believe they wasted a first round pick on him or any running back for that matter.
You can draft a RB early but he damn well better be a game-breaker. Sony is...fine, but year’s run blocking would have made anyone look good.

Fair to give Harry a full and hopefully healthy offseason. Receivers struggling early is more of the norm but it looks bad for the guy we decided to pick when other 1st and 2nd year guys have been flashing in worse offenses with much worse quarterbacks.
 

nazz45

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He was dominant down the stretch and in the playoffs last year with a competent OL. The notion that a JAG back would give you the same production is absurd.
BenJarvis Green-Ellis was a JAG who ran for over a 1,000 yards one season. Jonas Gray almost ran for 1,000 in one game. Without question, run blocking and overall efficiency on offense impacts the run game. But I think the expectation was that Michel was an all-around back that could contribute in the passing game (which in turn would probably lead to more success in the running game as the run/pass tendencies wouldn’t be as predictable). He gets the yards he should most of the time and doesn’t fumble, and there’s value to that, but there’s plenty of non-first round backs that can do the same.

Anecdotally, the stretch runs seemed to be a disaster for Michel this season whereas last year seemed more effective with capable blocking tight ends and better line play. But Michel had a tendency to hesitate on zone runs and find the cut back lane. He’s best suited on power runs with a lead blocker (whether a FB or pulling a TE/OL) but again you tend to limit your playbook and formations as a result.
 

DeadlySplitter

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by the way, last playoff loss at home... we also went 13 points in the 1st half, 0 in the 2nd half.
 

BaseballJones

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Chung's reinjury / new injury definitely mattered on the margins... 14 points and another 2nd half shutout is commendable though. I was upset at the defense in the early going but they don't have any goat horns tonight.

that said, they weren't any type of historic defense despite the numbers. the 2015 Denver defense carried a limping Denver offense all the way, that's what we could have used. (then again, were we worse than that offense with the corpse of Manning?)
This shows how football is the ultimate team/complimentary sport.

The offense was terrific early in the year. The D was historically great. They played off each other beautifully.

When things started going bad, it was the offense sputtering, which made the defense have to work much harder. But then they started sputtering too and that made an already sputtering offense’s job much harder. The D stopped getting three and outs and turnovers, which means the offense had worse field position to work with. But then the offense struggled and gave the defense worse field position to work with.

And then the bad fumble luck. The past two games the opponents fumbled FIVE times and recovered every single one of them. Any one of those completely changes the game. But they got every last one of them. If recovering fumbles is basically a 50/50 proposition, the odds of the offense recovering all five are 1 in 2*2*2*2*2, or 1 in 32. Great odds when it comes to winning the lottery, but not great odds when it comes to football. And it cost them dearly.
 

BaseballJones

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Tannehill was 8-15, 72 yards, 1 td, 1 int, and a passer rating of 61.0.

Hard to win a game with your QB putting up those numbers but they did.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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as was explained in the gamethread about the last punt of the game...

they sent EVERYONE out to block that punt, because it was the best chance to win. Edelman has to creep in because otherwise the punter can throw to a wide open person, with everyone coming in to block.

Bill did not get outcoached there. we can all agree a blocked punt was more likely than a miracle drive with 20 seconds and no timeouts. it was just awful luck the punt kicked straight and slowly to the 1, but once you don't block the punt it doesn't really matter anyways. much like their fumble luck lately, the ball was not kind to them.
It’s not bad luck when the punter clearly sees nobody back there and knows he can hit a line drive rocket with no downside. A kick like that was only ever bouncing forward.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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McDaniels. Whatever his offensive gameplan was I couldn't tell ya. Once his opening script gets exhausted he seems to lose his way. Bad in the red zone. Long developing routes on third and short with a unit that often breaks down in pass protection and receivers who have trouble shaking their defender. The McDaniels offense looks stale in predictable in this era of the NFL.
 

BigSoxFan

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Tannehill was 8-15, 72 yards, 1 td, 1 int, and a passer rating of 61.0.

Hard to win a game with your QB putting up those numbers but they did.
Those passing numbers and they effectively lost turnover battle as well since game was already over by time of those late turnovers.

Pretty even game but one they should definitely have won.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The shame of it is that I think they actually had a shot against Kansas City, who have not been the same this year and are the kind of all-pass team that we were built to defend.
 

BigSoxFan

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The shame of it is that I think they actually had a shot against Kansas City, who have not been the same this year and are the kind of all-pass team that we were built to defend.
The KC game could have been 2006 Colts AFCCG all over again. ALL the pressure would have been on them. As crappy as we were all year, felt like we would have given them a really tough game.

Dammit, Jules.
 

bigq

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Defense did its job as usual. It was the offense that really never got it together.
I haven’t read the entire thread however this point is not correct in my view. The defense got rolled over by Henry and that is how the Titans won.

Certainly the Patriots offense was lacking and putting up only 13 points is not enough but a Patriots defense that has been defined by taking away their opponent’s best weapon failed to do so in spectacular fashion tonight. They knew they had to stop Henry and they couldn’t do it.
 

wiffleballhero

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KC is peaking right now, you guys are delusional. don't sweat it.
Yes, seriously. This is a team that has played the weakest, most boring offense we've seen around here in two decades.

Goats: McDaniels, BTW, and the receivers who were not good enough to rise to the occasion in the one game where the O line held up long enough all night.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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McD really should have kept the pass to Roberts play until today instead of running it vs Phins.

Also, if Devlin were playing instead of Roberts, they are either enjoying the weekend off or win today.
 

Euclis20

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This game was a microcosm of the entire second half of the season:

-The defense was pretty good but not great, couldn't stop the run and didn't make enough big plays.
-The running game was OK and even looked good at times but completely disappeared when it mattered.
-The kicking game was spotty at best.
-The passing game was brutal, no one got any separation, there was a terrible drop, Brady looked solid but is no longer good enough to carry the unit.

All the goats for today have already been mentioned, but I can't name anyone in particular. Everything that happened today was just too predictable.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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KC is peaking right now, you guys are delusional. don't sweat it.
There is nothing appreciably different about either team from a few weeks ago when it took several officiating assists for them to beat NE. Beating Oakland/Chicago/LA since then do nothing for me.
 

BigSoxFan

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Why didn’t the defense sell out to stop the run earlier? This game was always going to be about making Tannehill throw. I just don’t get it.
 

trekfan55

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That 4th and 4 punt was a terrible idea.

The Pats could not stop Henry and they knew it by then. Going for it was the smart move. If they fail, try to hold them to a FG and take the ball back.

Other than that, failure to get in on 1st and Goal was also a killer. Plus that brutal drop by Brady's go to guy, Edelman. I guess the receivers are mostly to blame? I wish McD the best in his new job.
 

nazz45

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I haven’t read the entire thread however this point is not correct in my view. The defense got rolled over by Henry and that is how the Titans won.

Certainly the Patriots offense was lacking and putting up only 13 points is not enough but a Patriots defense that has been defined by taking away their opponent’s best weapon failed to do so in spectacular fashion tonight. They knew they had to stop Henry and they couldn’t do it.
Sure, first half defense was not good and Henry didn’t really slow down much in the second half (though did have a little more success with 6 DL front) but the Titans have been averaging just over 30 points per game with Tannenhill. Huge part of their game is chunk plays off of play-action which they did take away. They forced a turnover which put the offense in good starting position but the offense sputtered as they did the entire second half.

Maybe they should have employed the Heavy front early but then maybe Tannehill connects on a few big plays off play action as he’s done all season.
 

nothumb

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The decision to punt on the last drive may have been the worst decision I've seen BB make in a playoff game. Totally indefensible.

The surrounding talent has done little for Michel, but put me in the camp that says a 1st round back should be offering more than he does, even with a bad OL. The complete lack of development in the passing game is a disappointment.

To me, the only way it makes sense for Brady to come back is if Gronk does. Don't see how else they fix the talent deficit on offense.

Whether or not Tom comes back, McDaniels better take his chance at a HC gig now if he wants it. His star is fading fast.
 

DeadlySplitter

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There is nothing appreciably different about either team from a few weeks ago when it took several officiating assists for them to beat NE. Beating Oakland/Chicago/LA since then do nothing for me.
except playing at Arrowhead... it would have been tough to keep them under 30 points again. and good luck to this offense scoring more than 20 on the road.

all the bad shit with refs & ball bounces just sped up the inevitable conclusion and got us a bit higher in the draft. that's it.

also we had to use the Roberts pass play to try to get a bye... I'm sure they wanted to save it
 

DeadlySplitter

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everyone saying punting at the end was horrible... the offense converting there was what, 10%? and TEN made a dumb false start, we were better than 10% to get a 3 & out on TEN there.
 

BigSoxFan

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That 4th and 4 punt was a terrible idea.

The Pats could not stop Henry and they knew it by then. Going for it was the smart move. If they fail, try to hold them to a FG and take the ball back.

Other than that, failure to get in on 1st and Goal was also a killer. Plus that brutal drop by Brady's go to guy, Edelman. I guess the receivers are mostly to blame? I wish McD the best in his new job.
I hated the punt and still do. There was 3:17 remaining and all 3 timeouts left. Tennessee would have gone conservative and it probably results in FG attempt. Defense was playing better but not well enough for me to give the ball back.
 

Super Nomario

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everyone saying punting at the end was horrible... the offense converting there was what, 10%? and TEN made a dumb false start, we were better than 10% to get a 3 & out on TEN there.
I'd take 10% over the odds they wound up with, trying to score from the 1 with 15 seconds left and no timeouts.
 

Marciano490

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everyone saying punting at the end was horrible... the offense converting there was what, 10%? and TEN made a dumb false start, we were better than 10% to get a 3 & out on TEN there.
The other factor is their punter is so much better than ours. Assuming a 3 and out and swapping punts still likely moves us back and costs us time.
 

BigSoxFan

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everyone saying punting at the end was horrible... the offense converting there was what, 10%? and TEN made a dumb false start, we were better than 10% to get a 3 & out on TEN there.
There is no way the odds of converting a 4th and 4 is 10%.
 

nazz45

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I'd take 10% over the odds they wound up with, trying to score from the 1 with 15 seconds left and no timeouts.
Right but hindsight being 20/20 you probably don’t punt on 4th and 3 at the TEN 47 if you know Bailey is going to kick it into the end zone and then the Titans have an 8 minute drive.

Basically, they tried to win a field position game by relying on defense and special times that had carried them for a majority of the season. Like Belichick legit felt those units had a better chance to score than their offense. And really I don’t disagree.
 

Harry Hooper

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Right but hindsight being 20/20 you probably don’t punt on 4th and 3 at the TEN 47 if you know Bailey is going to kick it into the end zone and then the Titans have an 8 minute drive.

Basically, they tried to win a field position game by relying on defense and special times that had carried them for a majority of the season. Like Belichick legit felt those units had a better chance to score than their offense. And really I don’t disagree.
I was shocked at that punt. Seemed like Henry sitting out so many plays on the bench was limiting the Titans offense more than the Pats defense.

I have no problem with BB going for the punt block. It was the Pats best chance by far at that point.
 

McBride11

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Because @Ralphwiggum is a good poster and deserves better than game thread sniping back-and-forth, I'm going to continue this conversation here:







You said:

(1) last years team doesn’t make the top 10 Pats teams of the Bb/Tb era.

What's your top-10 list that excludes the 2018 team? The playoff games count when evaluating a team, even if they shouldn't be the only consideration. I'll spot you 2004, 2007, 2010, 2014 and 2016. But if you're going to ignore that there's an argument the 2018 team was better than two other SB-winning teams, or somehow then come up with a top 10 that excludes half of the title-winning teams... I'm not sure we're going to agree on much. Like the direction the sun will rise tomorrow.

(2) the run really should have been over after the Philly SB loss.

This is obviously subjective, but this is kinda contradicted by the fact that our OL was nails the later the 2018 season got, the D had a player turn into a DPOY candidate, and the entire team (including two underpaid players who would become market-setting FAs after the season, Trent Brown and Trey Flowers) continued clicking on all cylinders, including turning in one of the all-time great defensive performances in the super bowl. None of that was an accident, unless you want to call their relative health an accident. Much less suggestive of rot at the core that was concealing an end to title contention.

And then this year, we were probably a few non-football misfortunes from being a top contender this year. Andrews blood clot, Wynn turf toe, Antonio Brown being borderline psychotic, Gostkowski hip, Develin neck injury (and likewise to his replacement), Jason McCourty groin injury. You could argue adding "Gronk retiring while still being an impact player" to the list, too. With last year's health, I bet we get a bye and probably make the AFCCG. And despite what did happen, the team still came away with the 4th-best point differential in team history, even if they were a paper tiger to some degree.

---

My position going into the offseason is that there's tons of reason for optimism. Brady and Belichick clearly still have their fastballs. The defense is good, and could be great. And if enough of the injurees return to productivity, our OL and talent level across the board could suddenly see many holes plugged. There are reasons for pessimism too, the cap situation and McDaniels / Scarnecchia situation chief among them, but we're a good draft from being right back in this thing.
Preach
 

nothumb

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There is no way the odds of converting a 4th and 4 is 10%.
right. pats were 40% on 4th down (any distance) on the season, 38% on 3rd down (any distance), and 38% on 3rd down in the TEN game. there's no way they are worse than 10% to convert there, nor is it simply a question of conversion % vs. chance of getting TEN to go 3&out. once you get the 3&o, you still have to go score.
 

Pandemonium67

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Surprised at all the JE11 blame. It was an easy catch and he muffed it big time, but it was a 2nd down play. They had two chances to convert. They should have run it on 3rd with Burkhead and then gone for it on 4th.

The punt was the far bigger mistake.
 

BigSoxFan

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Surprised at all the JE11 blame. It was an easy catch and he muffed it big time, but it was a 2nd down play. They had two chances to convert. They should have run it on 3rd with Burkhead and then gone for it on 4th.

The punt was the far bigger mistake.
The punt decision was a strategic one. Jules drop was a huge physical miscue. I don’t think he is getting a ton of blame but it had a huge impact on the game. We aren’t even talking punt if he catches that ball. Sucks that it was him since he was the only pass catcher worth a shit this year and had been gutting it out all year. It’s probably a play he’ll be thinking about for a bit.
 

SMU_Sox

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The numbers clearly show that in a context neutral situation BB was a coward on 4th down. I think his thinking was that 4th and 3 or more relies on the passing game and probably to a wide receiver. They were under 50% going to wide receivers. If they turn it over on downs the defense might hold but you’ve flipped field position and this offense is struggling so you can’t afford to take that risk. Normally Bailey and Slater and Bethel can pin them deep. Not the case tonight. So while I don’t necessarily agree with the fourth down decisions I can understand them and what they tell you about how BB views the state of the offense right now. Explains not passing last game before the half too.
BB isn’t stupid or irrational. He went for it with the offense once on 4th and 2 (which I still think they made) when the defense was to the team then what the offense is now.

My goats: red zone defense. You get a B+/A- for the game but you could have been an A or an A+ of you hold them to a FG just once. 3rd down defense was bad too. Also, final drive for them you knew what was coming and still couldn’t stop it.

Red zone offense: fuck them. All season long. This team just has no margin for error when driving and not enough weapons when the space condenses.

Individual goats: Harry, Sanu, Josh, E-Rob the FB, Bailey, BB the GM.

Trade the farm for Jerry Jeudy.
 

NortheasternPJ

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The punt decision was a strategic one. Jules drop was a huge physical miscue. I don’t think he is getting a ton of blame but it had a huge impact on the game. We aren’t even talking punt if he catches that ball. Sucks that it was him since he was the only pass catcher worth a shit this year and had been gutting it out all year. It’s probably a play he’ll be thinking about for a bit.
Didn’t Edelman make some wise crack at Welker after the 28-3 game about him actually catching the ball vs Welker dropping it?

Edelman led the league in drops this year and it bit them again.

my biggest Bitch is that Chung goes out and then next play in the red zone you don’t give your backup any safety help and run a huge blitz? Of course they were going to target Brooks 1 on 1. Awful.
 

DeadlySplitter

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AB was getting suspended indefinitely if he stayed on the team, guys. (I assume that’s what the Kraft goat is about?)
 

Eddie Jurak

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4. Michel played well tonight. Not the problem.
He just can't ever save a play that has gone bad. And on his biggest run of the game, he left yards on the field by stepping out of bounds to avoid contact. Maybe he's decent in some respects but he creates almost nothing on his own and he is mediocre at best as a sort yardage back.
7. What the hell was BB supposed to do in that situation? There was literally nothing he could do. Not a single thing. That's why he pointed out during the season that the rule was problematic.
He could have called a time out. He could have had his punt return ready enough for that BS to not make a dumb unforced error.
They ran out a second string center for the entire year, a second string LT for half the year, a LB playing FB for 14 weeks, and had a massive downgrade at TE. What the hell did you expect Michel to do this year running behind that line?
Once in while, compete for a few yards after contact?
The field position falls on Bailey as much as the defense.
True. Bailey killed them, with the shank especially but also by dropping a couple into the end zone.
McD really should have kept the pass to Roberts play until today instead of running it vs Phins.

Also, if Devlin were playing instead of Roberts, they are either enjoying the weekend off or win today.
If the defense did its job last week, there wouldn't have been a game today.
This game was a microcosm of the entire second half of the season:

-The defense was pretty good but not great, couldn't stop the run and didn't make enough big plays.
I don't know. The defense allowed 14 points, none in the second half, came up with a pick at a key time, got the ball back a couple of times for the terrible offense.
Surprised at all the JE11 blame. It was an easy catch and he muffed it big time, but it was a 2nd down play. They had two chances to convert. They should have run it on 3rd with Burkhead and then gone for it on 4th.
The Pats offense has been a disaster for months now, Edelaman has a key first down in his fucking hands, and he dropped it. That was one of the most consequential plays of the game.
 

Super Nomario

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Right but hindsight being 20/20 you probably don’t punt on 4th and 3 at the TEN 47 if you know Bailey is going to kick it into the end zone and then the Titans have an 8 minute drive.
Yes, this was also a cowardly, dumb decision.

Basically, they tried to win a field position game by relying on defense and special times that had carried them for a majority of the season. Like Belichick legit felt those units had a better chance to score than their offense. And really I don’t disagree.
He may have felt that way, but it was a failure. They kept punting and getting the ball back with lousy field position. They weren't executing well enough on offense, defense, or special teams to win a field position battle.

The offense is bad; it was bad last night, it's been bad all year. But you're losing the game, so you have to give it chances. The punts put the defense in better position but really limited the offense's opportunities to score, and they needed opportunities.