2020 Dolphins: Aloha

When Does Miami Start Tua?

  • Before the Week 11 Bye

    Votes: 6 25.0%
  • After the Week 11 Bye

    Votes: 9 37.5%
  • Not until the 2021 Season

    Votes: 9 37.5%

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .

Clears Cleaver

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My goodness, reading this thread is absurd. Fitz is what he is. Fun to watch, fun to root for, mediocre over the long term. He has been very good and very bad this season, like the entirety of his career. Media loves him, the narrative is established, he's a good guy, etc. He's beaten the Jets, Jacksonville and a very beat up SF team. He was mediocre to awful in the three losses, and was actually pretty terrible against the Jets for three quarters.

Tua is the future. If the coaches think he's ready, play him. They know a hell of a lot more about where he is than any of us or any of the media. Fitz is NEVER going to get you across whatever finish line you want to cross, but is a fun hitch hike along the way. thanks for the ride, appreciate the cool music and conversation. There's a Ferrari waiting for me at the next stop, let's hope it doesn't break down
 

Mystic Merlin

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He sounds a bit like Bledsoe did when Brady was named the starter after Bledsoe recovered (not that the situations are 1:1 comparable), which is fine. He SHOULD be upset, he hasn’t said anything inappropriate, and I am sure he will say and do all the right things going forward.

In terms of the wisdom of the move, this isn’t a situation where Fitz has been lighting the world on fire. If Tua looks like the better player right now and is physically right, then play him. Don’t overthink it.

Good for MIA, they are operating - in a good way - in IDGAF mode. This is how it is done.
 

pdaj

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Well, Tua Week is finally here!

Meanwhile, I currently am at a loss in assessing the AFC East landscape.

New England lost ... again. And it wasn't pretty.

And Buffalo beat the Jets in less than impressive fashion.

Of course, all that means 0 if Miami doesn't keep winning.
 

sodenj5

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Well, Tua Week is finally here!

Meanwhile, I currently am at a loss in assessing the AFC East landscape.

New England lost ... again. And it wasn't pretty.

And Buffalo beat the Jets in less than impressive fashion.

Of course, all that means 0 if Miami doesn't keep winning.
Buffalo’s D has been surprisingly bad and I think some of the magic dust has fallen off of Allen, who was on an MVP tear the first few weeks before returning to earth a bit.

Jets are awful. Enough said.

I don’t think the Pats are terrible, but I don’t know if they’re a playoff team this year. Cam hasn’t looked good recently, and teams are forcing him to pass, which he has not been very good at.

I’m still leaning towards Buffalo winning the division because I think it’s going to be hard for Miami to close the gap while breaking in Tua and then facing a really tough December schedule.
 

sodenj5

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File this under very surprising. Someone tweeted that Miami is shopping Xavien Howard, and people laughed it off, assuming he meant Jordan Howard, the corpse at RB. Apparently he wasn’t wrong.


I see both sides of the coin here. Howard has been fragile. He’s had multiple knee surgeries already. He’s paid like a premier corner, and he is, when he’s on the field. Miami could very well be selling high as he’s been playing really well and healthy the last few weeks.

The flip side is that, he has a unique skill set that not every corner has. The ball finds him and he takes it away. He’s as good as anyone in the league pulling down picks. Is he maybe more suited to a zone scheme than a flat out man to man scheme? Probably.

The truly surprising thing is that the pass defense has looked pretty good with X and Byron Jones in the lineup and Noah looks like he has a long ways to go.

If someone offered a first round pick for Howard in the offseason, would I have taken it? Yes. Now? I’m not so sure. He looks nearly 100% and there’s a huge gap between Xavien Howard and Noah.

Howard might be a luxury after they signed Jones and drafted Noah, who are on paper, probably better scheme fits for what Flores wants to do. I’m conflicted. In terms of pure value, it might be the correct call, but realistically Miami needs talent to compete and can’t keep purging everyone.
 

pdaj

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File this under very surprising. Someone tweeted that Miami is shopping Xavien Howard, and people laughed it off, assuming he meant Jordan Howard, the corpse at RB. Apparently he wasn’t wrong.


I see both sides of the coin here. Howard has been fragile. He’s had multiple knee surgeries already. He’s paid like a premier corner, and he is, when he’s on the field. Miami could very well be selling high as he’s been playing really well and healthy the last few weeks.
I don’t think the domestic violence issue with his girlfriend/wife was ... well received? ... either. This could be a huge part of it. That said, I really do believe that the offer for Howard would have to be substantial for Miami to move him. The factors possibly contributing to a strong market?

1) Many teams are in the playoff mix.
2) There hav been a significant # of player injuries.
3) Due to the pandemic and its impact on college sports, scouting is more difficult. Some analysts have asked, are ‘21 draft picks being considered more of a “crapshoot,” and thus deemed less valuable?
4) Howard’s healthy and playing well. He’s also a playmaker (interceptions), and it only takes one forced turnover to decide the big game.
 

RedOctober3829

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I don’t think the domestic violence issue with his girlfriend/wife was ... well received? ... either. This could be a huge part of it. That said, I really do believe that the offer for Howard would have to be substantial for Miami to move him. The factors possibly contributing to a strong market?

1) Many teams are in the playoff mix.
2) There hav been a significant # of player injuries.
3) Due to the pandemic and its impact on college sports, scouting is more difficult. Some analysts have asked, are ‘21 draft picks being considered more of a “crapshoot,” and thus deemed less valuable?
4) Howard’s healthy and playing well. He’s also a playmaker (interceptions), and it only takes one forced turnover to decide the big game.
Would a Gilmore for Howard swap be in the works?
 

sodenj5

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I don’t think the domestic violence issue with his girlfriend/wife was ... well received? ... either. This could be a huge part of it. That said, I really do believe that the offer for Howard would have to be substantial for Miami to move him. The factors possibly contributing to a strong market?

1) Many teams are in the playoff mix.
2) There hav been a significant # of player injuries.
3) Due to the pandemic and its impact on college sports, scouting is more difficult. Some analysts have asked, are ‘21 draft picks being considered more of a “crapshoot,” and thus deemed less valuable?
4) Howard’s healthy and playing well. He’s also a playmaker (interceptions), and it only takes one forced turnover to decide the big game.
A few teams stand out and maybe the #1 team is Seattle. They seem to have it all together on offense but their defense has been abysmal. You add Howard to that mix, who is a perfect scheme fit, and you might be cooking with Russ.

Edit: so Seattle gave up their 2021 and 2022 picks for Adams. Yeeesh. They might not match up with Miami because the cupboard is bare.

Several other beat writers now confirming that they’ve heard that Howard is on the block.

Would a Gilmore for Howard swap be in the works?
I can’t see that.
 
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RedOctober3829

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I can’t see that.
Why not? Dolphins have the space to both take on his salary now and also sign him long-term, he obviously knows Flo and his system, great place to live that isn't far from his native SC. Patriots would be motivated to do this possibly by the fact that he's a very good player that is signed for long-term at a lesser amount than what Gilmore is going to want. The only thing that may scare them away is the off the field issues from last year.
 

DanoooME

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A few teams stand out and maybe the #1 team is Seattle. They seem to have it all together on offense but their defense has been abysmal. You add Howard to that mix, who is a perfect scheme fit, and you might be cooking with Russ.

Edit: so Seattle gave up their 2021 and 2022 picks for Adams. Yeeesh. They might not match up with Miami because the cupboard is bare.
The problem is more in the pass rush in Seattle than the back end. Getting back Adams will help. But they need at least 1 if not 2 pass rushers.
 

sodenj5

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Why not? Dolphins have the space to both take on his salary now and also sign him long-term, he obviously knows Flo and his system, great place to live that isn't far from his native SC. Patriots would be motivated to do this possibly by the fact that he's a very good player that is signed for long-term at a lesser amount than what Gilmore is going to want. The only thing that may scare them away is the off the field issues from last year.
I don’t think Miami wants another high priced corner. They have Howard’s replacement on the roster already. Is Gilmore better than Igbinoghene? Absolutely. But do they want to pay two corners top dollar? It doesn’t seem so.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Omar Kelly...he's the absolute worst reporter ever. Guy never breaks news, he writes as if he's a GM and players think he's a clown
 

sodenj5

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I just read a theory that might make some sense. A little tinfoil hat but:

Flores was mad as hell that the news about Fitz leaked to the media before he had the chance to address the team. This could have been Flores trying to flush out the leaker, and that rebuttal from the team had a particularly harsh tone to it.
 

Clears Cleaver

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I just read a theory that might make some sense. A little tinfoil hat but:

Flores was mad as hell that the news about Fitz leaked to the media before he had the chance to address the team. This could have been Flores trying to flush out the leaker, and that rebuttal from the team had a particularly harsh tone to it.
Schefter broke the Fitz story, right?
 

sodenj5

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Schefter broke the Fitz story, right?
I believe that’s correct. I don’t think the team has a vendetta against Kelly in particular, but I think it might be feasible they dangled a name like Howard to see when and where a leak would surface.

I also think it’s highly likely Miami has gotten calls on Howard and said we would need a Tunsil deal and left it at that. Kelly and the Sun Sentinel remain adamant that Miami was shopping Howard and Joe Schad said he confirmed it with a source. The Herald said it sat on the news after contacting the team, which seems like Miami is listening but not shopping.

Is Kelly totally wrong? Maybe not. We all thought it was ludicrous when the Tunsil rumors first started. I wouldn’t say we’re completely out of the woods regarding Howard yet.
 

sodenj5

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Howard has been pretty great this year, right?
Yes. The last 4 weeks or so have been vintage Howard. He’s been playing at a Pro Bowl level since he came back into the lineup.

The question is always, will he stay healthy?
 

sodenj5

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View: https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1321416789234995208?s=21


Miami gave up a conditional 7th for Shaheen. Now he’s signs a two year extension. Nice little trade W for Grier.

Shaheen has been pretty productive for Miami so far, or at least far more productive than he was in Chicago. I think he was a bit miscast in Nagy’s offense. Similar to how Gesicki wasn’t utilized properly by Gase.

Change of scenery for him, and he’s been a nice addition to the passing game and in the red zone.
 

pdaj

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It's been a long, long 2-week wait.

But, the advantage of the BYE is a clear one. Miami's nearly fully healthy heading into tomorrow, with only Jamal Perry out and Adam Shaheen questionable. CB Tae Hayes and DL Benito Jones were promoted to the active roster.

 

sodenj5

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This is it boys. To say it’s been a long wait has been an understatement. Whether your talking about just last year, with the tank for Tua talk, Tua’s hip injury and recovery, or the wait since Marino.

Today is the dawn of the Tua era. Regardless of what that era brings, I feel that Miami has done a fantastic job over the last year plus completely overhauling the roster, salary cap, and coaching staff.

Win, lose, or draw today, Miami is going to be nationally relevant for the first time in decades.
 

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Although I will always think "Squish the Fish" when I think of the Dolphins, I have to say that I am intrigued by this team. I've been a fan of Tua's since the 2018 National Championship game and I really like Flores. So in this upside down year of 2020, I guess I will be rooting for the Fins, as long as the Pats are out of the playoff picture. Put it another way, in the absence of the Pats winning the AFC East, I'd much prefer this Miami team to win it over the Bills.
 

pdaj

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Although I will always think "Squish the Fish" when I think of the Dolphins, I have to say that I am intrigued by this team. I've been a fan of Tua's since the 2018 National Championship game and I really like Flores. So in this upside down year of 2020, I guess I will be rooting for the Fins, as long as the Pats are out of the playoff picture. Put it another way, in the absence of the Pats winning the AFC East, I'd much prefer this Miami team to win it over the Bills.
It does seem as though the addition of Flores to the Miami organization has made them more likable nationally, and particularly with Patriots fans. He’s a bit hard not to like/root for. I think Tua’s presence just adds to that, as he’s another humble, hard working type of person who will be the face of the franchise. Plus, everyone enjoys a “comeback” story.

This is it boys. To say it’s been a long wait has been an understatement. Whether your talking about just last year, with the tank for Tua talk, Tua’s hip injury and recovery, or the wait since Marino.

Today is the dawn of the Tua era. Regardless of what that era brings, I feel that Miami has done a fantastic job over the last year plus completely overhauling the roster, salary cap, and coaching staff.

Win, lose, or draw today, Miami is going to be nationally relevant for the first time in decades.
The more that I think about it, the more I’m impressed with the execution of the Grier/Flores plan for setting up Tua for success within the organization. Some of this has been covered by others, but let’s review for fun:

  • Bringing in Chan Gailey, Mr. RPO, to design the offense, which will: A) Maximize Tua’s strengths and B) Incorporate much of what Tua did so well in college.
  • Convincing Fitzpatrick to come back, knowing that: A) He’s very familiar with Chan and B) He’d be a terrific mentor for Tua.
  • Investing in the OL, particularly in the interior. Greg Cosell has mentioned extensively in interviews that the Saints have always invested in BIG interior OL because of Brees’ height. At 6’0”, pressure is far more interfering to Brees’ ability to throw the ball than pressure off of the edge. Enter Karras, Kindley, Flowers, Hunt.
Now, to the decision to start Tua in Week 8? The 3Yard podcast did well to break this down:

LA had the short week after a physical contest vs. the Bears and will now be playing at 10 AM (PT), on the opposite coast, against the Tua, who has just 2 plays of NFL tape, and is coming off of a BYE week of preparation. Oh, and the kicker? Flores is the DC who lead the Patriots' shutdown of Goff and Co. in the 2018 Super Bowl.

Coincidence? Can’t be. The plan’s been too calculated, from the start.

After facing the Cardinals on the road, Tua will have the following games: Chargers (home), Broncos, Jets (home), Bengals (home) before the schedule gets much more challenging. (Though, the Denver game could be a sneaky tough one.)

Grier and Flores deserve a lot of praise here.

While you can’t base too much on a rookie QB’s first start, I’ll consider today a win if Tua ends the game healthy, and in no way looks overwhelmed by the moment. And if Miami gets the win today? Oh boy.

Enjoy the game, fellas!
 
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dwainw

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Miami is winning today. That is all.
I think the Rams can be had. Frankly with all things considered (Miami off a bye, LAR on a short week, cross country trip, etc.) I think it's a toss-up. I think in the end the Dolphins end up having to lean harder on Tua then they would hope to and fall just short (not necessarily because of Tua). I hope I'm wrong and they can pull it out.

Let the Tua era begin....
 

mauidano

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Tua Time in South Beach. Tua grew up in my "hometown" where I went to high school; Ewa Beach. Pulling for him with tempered expectations.
 

sodenj5

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Goff having Super Bowl PTSD. Flores living in his head rent free right now.

All three phases hitting right now.
 

sodenj5

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Low key concerned about the defense because it feels like they’ve been on the field the entire first half.

Really need a sustained drive to start the half and give the D a little time on the sideline.

Also, Miami has been one step ahead of McVay and the Rams offense all game long. Will be interesting to see what changes at the half.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Tua has honestly looked like shit. he looks tentative and his passes have generally been inaccurate. HE's getting no help from his "skill" players, but he has frequently not put the ball in the best places to help them
 

Silverdude2167

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Tua has honestly looked like shit. he looks tentative and his passes have generally been inaccurate. HE's getting no help from his "skill" players, but he has frequently not put the ball in the best places to help them
Scoreboard...

Serious question though, I think the division is there for the taking.
Buffalo is meh in my opinion. Short term the Fins are better with Fitzy, but long term giving Tua reps is probably smarter.

So what do you want, a chance to win the division and probably lose in the divisional round, or getting Tua reps?
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Scoreboard...

Serious question though, I think the division is there for the taking.
Buffalo is meh in my opinion.
Short term the Fins are better with Fitzy, but long term giving Tua reps is probably smarter.

So what do you want, a chance to win the division and probably lose in the divisional round, or getting Tua reps?
I wholeheartedly love this prevailing thinking here. They're 6-2. The rest of the division sucks.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Outside of about three halves of football this year, Miami's offense has sucked badly. They are not a realistic division contender with guys like Gaskin, Breida, Williams touching the ball 65% of the time. None of those guys are going to be in the league next year
 

sodenj5

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Outside of about three halves of football this year, Miami's offense has sucked badly. They are not a realistic division contender with guys like Gaskin, Breida, Williams touching the ball 65% of the time. None of those guys are going to be in the league next year
I definitely wouldn’t hang that performance on Tua. Miami’s game plan on offense was about as bad as I could have possibly imagined. They kept running the ball with their undersized RB with an underpowered OL straight into the strength of the Rams defense.
Some of it can be explained as playing conservative because you had the lead and it was Tua’s start. But the back to back wildcat plays was high school level play calling in the first half.

Felt like Gailey had all of these different ideas and threw a bunch of stuff out there to see what would work... and none of it did.

I hope to see a much more cohesive gameplay against the Cardinals.

On the bright side, Miami now has the #1 scoring defense in the NFL and Brian Flores is officially Sean McVay’s dad.
 

dwainw

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Tua has honestly looked like shit. he looks tentative and his passes have generally been inaccurate. HE's getting no help from his "skill" players, but he has frequently not put the ball in the best places to help them
No doubt Tua was not particularly impressive, but there were several bad drops. Mostly by Preston Williams (3, by my count)
 

sodenj5

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No doubt Tua was not particularly impressive, but there were several bad drops. Mostly by Preston Williams (3, by my count)
Gaskin with a key third down drop and a fumble. Overall, one you want to bury and move on from if you’re the offense.
 

dwainw

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I definitely wouldn’t hang that performance on Tua. Miami’s game plan on offense was about as bad as I could have possibly imagined. They kept running the ball with their undersized RB with an underpowered OL straight into the strength of the Rams defense.
Some of it can be explained as playing conservative because you had the lead and it was Tua’s start. But the back to back wildcat plays was high school level play calling in the first half.

Felt like Gailey had all of these different ideas and threw a bunch of stuff out there to see what would work... and none of it did.

I hope to see a much more cohesive gameplay against the Cardinals.

On the bright side, Miami now has the #1 scoring defense in the NFL and Brian Flores is officially Sean McVay’s dad.
How much did the unexpectedly early big lead and dominance by the defense play into it? I don't think Tua had a pass attempt over 10 yards after the 1st quarter.
 

sodenj5

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How much did the unexpectedly early big lead and dominance by the defense play into it? I don't think Tua had a pass attempt over 10 yards after the 1st quarter.
I mean, some of it certainly had to do with trying to maintain the lead. The defense was playing lights out. They didn’t want to give the Rams any easy points, which they did once and nearly did twice.

But they also left the defense on the field for far too long and looked disjointed on offense. They’re running direct snaps and pistol dives with Gaskin on 3rd and 1. That’s playing not to lose. Which is how they lost to Seattle.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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DidI say "far better"? They're a better team. The Dolphins have a nice win against SF and a trouncing of the Jets that pretty much accounts for the point differentiational plus the JAX win. Look, Im not trying to rain on the parade here and I'm not trolling or baiting, but come on.
 

luckiestman

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DidI say "far better"? They're a better team. The Dolphins have a nice win against SF and a trouncing of the Jets that pretty much accounts for the point differentiational plus the JAX win. Look, Im not trying to rain on the parade here and I'm not trolling or baiting, but come on.
Bills best wins are Rams and Raiders

Fish are Rams and 49ers

it’s a coin flip