2020 Dolphins: Aloha

When Does Miami Start Tua?

  • Before the Week 11 Bye

    Votes: 6 25.0%
  • After the Week 11 Bye

    Votes: 9 37.5%
  • Not until the 2021 Season

    Votes: 9 37.5%

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .

E5 Yaz

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With Flores and Fitzmagic, it's hard to hate this Miami team more than twice a season.
 

sodenj5

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View: https://twitter.com/jfowlerespn/status/1316742854094487554?s=21


Miami on the Le’Veon Bell shortlist.

A couple of quick notes :

I think Bell can still be good, and a good fit in Miami assuming the contract is a 1-2 year deal for close to the minimum. Clearly would be the best RB on our roster and Bell and Brieda would compliment each other well. Miami probably has the biggest void at RB out of the teams listed.

Playing in Miami, where Bell spends his offseason, is probably appealing for him as well as Miami seems to be a team trending upwards.

Low risk, potentially medium to high reward if he drops in to the offense and hits the ground running.

Miami also has a bye after this week, not that it matters vs the other teams, but as good a time as any to acclimate a new RB to the offense.
 

dwainw

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If the Dolphins pull this off, here's hoping Le'Veon has sampled some of Adrian Peterson's special 9-Lives Potion. And I would be cautiously optimistic that the upgrade he would experience in Miami's O-line vs. the Jets' could turn his acquisition into lightning in a bottle. Considering what Myles Gaskin has accomplished behind that front, it doesn't seem like too much of a pipe dream.
 

pdaj

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As a Dolphins fan and owner of a fantasy team that recently traded for CEH, make this happen, Flo’!

I like Gaskins, who seems to get as much out of his talent as possible and has staying power a backup/3rd-down guy, but Bell would be a significant upgrade, adding a very much-needed playmaker to the offense. Heck, 3-3 heading into next week’s BYE, with Bell on board in time for a home game with Rams? It could make things interesting.
 

BigSoxFan

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As a Dolphins fan and owner of a fantasy team that recently traded for CEH, make this happen, Flo’!

I like Gaskins, who seems to get as much out of his talent as possible and has staying power a backup/3rd-down guy, but Bell would be a significant upgrade, adding a very much-needed playmaker to the offense. Heck, 3-3 heading into next week’s BYE, with Bell on board in time for a home game with Rams? It could make things interesting.
Yup. Parker, Bell, Gesicki ain’t Irvin, Emmitt, Novacek but it’s a pretty solid group. This feels like a no brainer for Miami.
 

sodenj5

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Sounds like Miami is pushing hard to get Bell and they’re thinking longer than just a 10 week rental.

Miami 100% has more cap space this season and next season than either Buffalo or KC.

I’m ok with paying Bell a premium to be on the roster next season, but I get extremely queasy thinking beyond 2021. Miami has been pretty smart in structuring most of their recent deals.

On paper he fills an enormous void on the offense.

As an aside, Flores spoke highly of Bell and it feels like Flores has that Belichick-ian respect for players that he has to game plan for. I’m sure he’s been in plenty of meetings in Foxboro trying to figure out ways to slow Bell down.

I don’t know Bell and obviously he has a somewhat gray past with holdouts and suspensions, but his biggest complaint was not being used enough in NY. We know first hand Gase has an issue dealing with personalities and utilizing RBs.
 
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sodenj5

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As a Dolphins fan and owner of a fantasy team that recently traded for CEH, make this happen, Flo’!

I like Gaskins, who seems to get as much out of his talent as possible and has staying power a backup/3rd-down guy, but Bell would be a significant upgrade, adding a very much-needed playmaker to the offense. Heck, 3-3 heading into next week’s BYE, with Bell on board in time for a home game with Rams? It could make things interesting.
I agree and think Gaskin is a fine RB2, but Miami again has one of the worst rushing attacks in the NFL and Gaskin is a part of that.

There is no universe that exists where you pass on the chance to sign Bell because you have Gaskin on the roster.
 

nolasoxfan

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I agree and think Gaskin is a fine RB2, but Miami again has one of the worst rushing attacks in the NFL and Gaskin is a part of that.

There is no universe that exists where you pass on the chance to sign Bell because you have Gaskin on the roster.
The one universe I can think of is where Bell is only interested in securing one last contract, and after he signs it he will be more than content to play out the remainder of his days at a mediocre level and/or poolside. That’s what my gut tells me, anyway.

I think a lot of players sign with Miami for non-football reasons, and it doesn’t end well for either the franchise or its fans.
 

pdaj

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Beasley saying Miami looks to be willing to sign Bell into next year, which makes sense IMO. Chiefs likely a one year deal.
With the swing-and-miss on Bell, I really hope to see Matt Breida get more work going forward. He got 6 touches vs. Seattle and 10 touches last week, so we're possibly trending that way. I think 12-15 would be perfect, as he's too much of a go-the-distance type player to keep off of the field. I love Gaskin as a receiving option in the spread, but I'll keep banging this drum -- Breida's the best RB on this team.

Miami's WR situation is interesting. Parker and Williams are mainstays, with Gesicki, of course, a major receiving option at TE. But after that? Grant, Ford, Bowden, Perry ... and, remember, Callaway's suspension is up after Week 7's BYE. (Hollins is deemed essential on ST.)

I've always loved Jakeem Grant, but his chemistry with Fitz just doesn't seem to be there (very small target), and he remains inconsistent as a special teams weapon (that fumble on the PR last week could have been devastating.) I wonder if his time is running out, unless we see Tua sooner than later ...
 

jk333

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With the swing-and-miss on Bell, I really hope to see Matt Breida get more work going forward. He got 6 touches vs. Seattle and 10 touches last week, so we're possibly trending that way. I think 12-15 would be perfect, as he's too much of a go-the-distance type player to keep off of the field. I love Gaskin as a receiving option in the spread, but I'll keep banging this drum -- Breida's the best RB on this team.

Miami's WR situation is interesting. Parker and Williams are mainstays, with Gesicki, of course, a major receiving option at TE. But after that? Grant, Ford, Bowden, Perry ... and, remember, Callaway's suspension is up after Week 7's BYE. (Hollins is deemed essential on ST.)

I've always loved Jakeem Grant, but his chemistry with Fitz just doesn't seem to be there (very small target), and he remains inconsistent as a special teams weapon (that fumble on the PR last week could have been devastating.) I wonder if his time is running out, unless we see Tua sooner than later ...
Why does anyone’s chemistry with Fitz matter? Parker and Williams seem great, just a matter of if they work with Tua and stay affordable. Parker’s deal is nice for his current performance.

I don’t understand trading for Breida and then not using him. He seems great. They seem to still have a bit of a Gase ish slant to the offense to be honest. The next few weeks will tell the story I suppose.
 

pdaj

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Why does anyone’s chemistry with Fitz matter? Parker and Williams seem great, just a matter of if they work with Tua and stay affordable. Parker’s deal is nice for his current performance.

I don’t understand trading for Breida and then not using him. He seems great. They seem to still have a bit of a Gase ish slant to the offense to be honest. The next few weeks will tell the story I suppose.
The piece about Fitzpatrick and Grant’s chemistry is my own assessment. Fitz seems to prefer the larger receiver type (Parker/Preston/Gesicki), the kind of wideout you can throw it up and let go get it. Grant’s game is much more about separation. I think this is important because Fitzpatrick is still the starting QB, and he’s clearly very valued within the organization, and especially with Gailey. I think, ultimately, the receiving group is expected to perform with him at the helm.

But, let’s say, like me, Flores and co. think Grant would be more successful with Tua. Grant still has to face the following fact:

In 5 NFL seasons, he has 62 receptions, 723 yards, and 4 TD.

Those are his career totals.

And next year? He makes 4.75 million.

Again, I love Grant, and he KILLED it with Mahomes as his QB at Texas Tech. I just think his time could be running out. With Tua’s game and accuracy, however, I’m hoping the two get a chance to play together before that happens.
 
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jk333

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I don’t think I am being clear- it sounds like we agree.
Miami should only care about projecting what their receivers will do with Tua because that’s the only way they’re ever going to make the playoffs. So, if Grant will work best with Tua, they should get to that as quickly as possible. Now, Fitz has to start at least until the bye, but after, it would be great to see how Williams and Grant work with Tua. (also Parker) To your point, Grant (or Ford) may be better with Tua than with Fitzpatrick. Or, maybe they’re both awful and they need to draft a 3rd receiver for Tua to ply with next season, but that should be the whole goal.

I agree that it seems like Gailey likes Fitzpatrick. It’s fine to like him; he works hard and can be fun to root for. But he’s a loser. Hopefully the Dolphins aren’t deluding themselves about the massive limitations of Fitzpatrick. Besides being bad, he’s also old.
 
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Philip Jeff Frye

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I agree that it seems like Gailey likes Fitzpatrick. It’s fine to like him; he works hard and can be fun to root for. But he’s a loser. Hopefully the Dolphins aren’t deluding themselves about the massive limitations of Fitzpatrick. Besides being bad, he’s also old.
Why would the Dolphins, having just used a very valuable draft pick on one of the most highly touted QBs in recent memory, think that 37 year old Ryan Fitzpatrick is anything other than a short term expedient?
 

jk333

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Why would the Dolphins, having just used a very valuable draft pick on one of the most highly touted QBs in recent memory, think that 37 year old Ryan Fitzpatrick is anything other than a short term expedient?
Good point, I talked myself in a circle there.

It will be interesting to see the receivers with Tua after the bye week. It’s nice that they have some players to put around Tua.
 

rymflaherty

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Today is odd. It’s not too often of late, and late meaning a decade plus, that I not only expect the Dolphins to win, but to be dominate.
 

sodenj5

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Today is odd. It’s not too often of late, and late meaning a decade plus, that I not only expect the Dolphins to win, but to be dominate.
Brian Flores’s first game as a favorite as Miami’s head coach.

And Tannehill just threw a dagger to tie up the Texans game.
 

sodenj5

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At this point, the Jets are fools if they fire Gase and Williams because they’re an absolute dumpster fire.

Miami has played pretty decent and they’re dominating this game. Extremely real chance that Trevor Lawrence is coming to the division next year.
 

rymflaherty

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I don’t care how bad the Jets are, it’s still impressive to come and dominate. Especially after going cross country and administering an improbable beat down the week before.
At the risk of being overly optimistic, I can’t help but feel that’s the sign of a good team,
It’s impressive to me that there wasn’t any let down after what had to be a lot of feel good last Sunday and dealing with a schedule change.
 

rymflaherty

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Yeah...I don’t see Herbert with a 100% completion percentage!

In all honesty though, I do think that was a pretty ballsy move to put Tua in and let him throw those passes. You figure there’s a much higher probability something negative happens on either of those plays, and I’m guessing that’s not the way you’d like him to start his career.
As silly as it may sound analyzing two passes, it was at least somewhat impressive that he had his wits about him and didn’t do something dumb there.
 

sodenj5

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Great way to head into the bye week. Shutouts are hard, even against bad teams, so I’m sure Flores loves getting to notch his first bagel as a coach.

Back to back dominant wins. Fitz had a so-so game once the Jets started blitzing everyone.

Tua getting some snaps. Had me literally holding my breath on the rollout that he completed.

Fitz trying to pump up the crowd when Tua came into the game is why everyone loves him. It feels like he really relishes the time he has both playing and mentoring Tua.

Team is now .500 and in second place in the AFC East.
 

pdaj

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Good point, I talked myself in a circle there.

It will be interesting to see the receivers with Tua after the bye week. It’s nice that they have some players to put around Tua.


At this point, the Jets are fools if they fire Gase and Williams because they’re an absolute dumpster fire.

Miami has played pretty decent and they’re dominating this game. Extremely real chance that Trevor Lawrence is coming to the division next year.
I agree 100%. At this point, it’s really the only reason to keep Gase in place. Gregg Williams is a dick, and certainly not HC worthy, but he’d likely rally the troops for 3 or so wins as an interim guy. If you’re the Jets, why risk that?

As silly as it may sound analyzing two passes, it was at least somewhat impressive that he had his wits about him and didn’t do something dumb there.
I was disappointed the offense couldn’t execute another TD with about 8 or so left in the 4th. (Fitz left a lot of points out there today.) If so, we might have seen Tua sooner. It was just 2 passes, but still fun. He has that twitchy quickness and fast release that’s a blast to watch. Great times ahead ...

3-3 heading into the BYE at a time where injuries have started to pile up. The timing’s perfect.
 

rymflaherty

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Anyone else experience the cognitive dissonance that I do every time that Ogbah makes a big play? Even though it’s been a couple years, I see the #91 celebrating and I start cheering for Wake and it takes me a second to process that it’s no longer him coming off the edge. We’re six weeks in and I still find myself doing that. :D

I guess it’s a compliment to Ogbah that he’s been able to make plays that have allowed my brain to even make that connection,
 

dwainw

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Anyone else experience the cognitive dissonance that I do every time that Ogbah makes a big play? Even though it’s been a couple years, I see the #91 celebrating and I start cheering for Wake and it takes me a second to process that it’s no longer him coming off the edge. We’re six weeks in and I still find myself doing that. :D

I guess it’s a compliment to Ogbah that he’s been able to make plays that have allowed my brain to even make that connection,
To some extent, yes, but it's been a couple years and crazy roster turnover since the Wake era ended, so sadly that association has quickly faded. I've had much bigger episodes of cognitive dissonance recently watching Brian Cox (Jr.) suiting up on defense for the Buffalo Bills.
 

johnmd20

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I think it's a crazy move. Groom Tua, while the Dolphins are making a run at the playoffs.

Doesn't make sense. I wonder if this came from the top? Fitzy is getting legitimately screwed here.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Fitz has been pretty awful the second halves of the last two games, albeit with big leads. I think the plan was always after a bye week. the bye week moved up

Probably means they re worse this year and better next
 

sodenj5

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IMO, this is largely about Tua was always going to be the starter and the bye week moving screwed up the timing.

Fitz didn’t lose his job, he’s played well, but there isn’t another break in the schedule where you can obviously and easily insert Tua. Tough for Fitz, but he has handled this year with so much class I don’t sense there being any animosity of friction. He’s genuinely pulling for Tua.

Miami has a softer schedule before running the gauntlet later in the year, so the longer they wait, the harder his transition was going to be.
 

pdaj

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I view this move differently and base my opinion on the following assumptions:

1) Tua's likely looked very good in practice.
2) Tua's likely reached all of his strength/flexibility benchmarks.

From my perspective, Miami's going "all in" on a possible playoff spot; and while the the floor's possibly lower with Tua, the potential ceiling for the offense if he pops is immense.

Sunday, Miami scored 24 points in their shutout of the Jets, but should have had 40+. With Miami's defense showing out, what if Tua can take Miami's offense to the next level?

That's what I think this is all about.
 

dwainw

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I view this move differently and base my opinion on the following assumptions:

1) Tua's likely looked very good in practice.
2) Tua's likely reached all of his strength/flexibility benchmarks.

From my perspective, Miami's going "all in" on a possible playoff spot; and while the the floor's possibly lower with Tua, the potential ceiling for the offense if he pops is immense.

Sunday, Miami scored 24 points in their shutout of the Jets, but should have had 40+. With Miami's defense showing out, what if Tua can take Miami's offense to the next level?

That's what I think this is all about.
Mixed feelings for the reasons discussed by various people above, but it all boils down to where you stand on the bolded. To me, "all in" really means you're all in for a division title (or I think it does), where you think some higher seeding and a playoff win are where this franchise is headed right now. I have my doubts, but I'm as curious to see what Tua has to offer as anyone. And I love that we're even in a position to think like this.
 

sodenj5

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Really tough reading some of Fitz’s comments from his presser. I truly feel for him because he suffered a beat down last year, he played pretty well this year, the team is trending in the right direction, and he gets the plug pulled.

Seems like he really put everything he had into this team, and it showed. Obviously we’re excited to see Tua, but you hate to see it negatively impact a guy who has been such a joy to watch in the last year and a half.

I would love to see Fitz stay on as Tua’s backup next year or him take a role with the coaching staff, but he said today his favorite part of football is playing and competing.
 

Ferm Sheller

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I think starting Tua is the right decision. His ceiling's higher than Fitzpatrick's (which IMO is getting to the playoffs but not being able to get past better teams once there).

As a Pats fan, I'm interested in better understanding whether Tua's going to be a thorn in our sides for the next 15 years, or whether Miami needs to go back to the drawing board with regard to the QB position.
 

sodenj5

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I think starting Tua is the right decision. His ceiling's higher than Fitzpatrick's (which IMO is getting to the playoffs but not being able to get past better teams once there).

As a Pats fan, I'm interested in better understanding whether Tua's going to be a thorn in our sides for the next 15 years, or whether Miami needs to go back to the drawing board with regard to the QB position.
Agreed. We know who Fitz is. We don’t know who Tua is. Tua starting is about possibly (maybe) punting a playoff chance to find out if he’s the future at QB.

It’s also entirely possible he plays as well or better than Fitz. In 10 years we won’t care if Miami was the 7th seed in 2020.
 

pdaj

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It seems like bewildering timing: After going 5-11 last year, the Dolphins have won three games in four tries. Fitzpatrick has played exceptionally, and the Dolphins are only a game back from the lead in the AFC East, which the team hasn’t won since 2008. Shouldn’t this team be focused on making the playoffs rather than developing an untested rookie?

With a player as special as Tua, that’s not the calculus. The Dolphins aren’t choosing between making the playoffs with Fitz (who, by the way, has never made the postseason in 15 NFL seasons) and letting their fledgling quarterback test his wings. They’re choosing to make the playoffs—with Tua Tagovailoa.
If Tua is healthy, he’s a god. He holds college football’s all-time records for yards per attempt, touchdown rate, and passer efficiency rating. It’s funny to think that after the national championship, it seemed like Tua’s big problem was a tendency to commit turnovers—he finished at Bama with 87 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. But the most impressive things about Tua are things that can’t be defined by numbers, or even words. He makes plays that simply look different from anybody else’s—and not just because he’s the first lefty QB to play in the NFL in five years. The guy can do this.
Many NFL teams still abide by the idea that young quarterbacks need time to get ready for the pros. But it seems like young quarterbacks are better than ever: In 2018, the Ravens sat Lamar Jackson for months, then let him play, and he turned what looked like it would be a dismal season into a playoff run. It now feels almost comical that Tyrod Taylor ever played this season over Justin Herbert for the Chargers. (Or two seasons ago in Cleveland over Baker Mayfield, who has actually grown worse as he’s gotten experience.)
The league’s best quarterback, Patrick Mahomes, of course, infamously sat on the bench while Alex Smith started for the 2017 Chiefs. But should we praise the Chiefs for giving Mahomes time to develop? Or should we wonder whether they cost themselves a chance at an earlier Super Bowl appearance by leaving the league’s best quarterback on the bench? If you watched Mahomes play in his limited snaps from that season, you know: That dude was ready.
You don’t sub in Tua Tagovailoa because you want a young kid to get reps. You sub him in because he’s better than the starter—even if that starter just brought you to back-to-back national championship games or is a 16-year vet playing some of the best ball of his career. You leave Hurts or Fitz in to avoid controversy. You play Tua because he’s the best.
Tua Tagovailoa has always been completely unfazed by pressure, whether in the form of defenders trying to destroy him or being asked to perform in moments seemingly meant for more experienced players. The Dolphins were waiting to play Tua until he was ready. But if you’ve watched Tua throughout his career, you know: He’s always been ready.
Anyone excited yet?
 

dwainw

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Really tough reading some of Fitz’s comments from his presser. I truly feel for him because he suffered a beat down last year, he played pretty well this year, the team is trending in the right direction, and he gets the plug pulled.

Seems like he really put everything he had into this team, and it showed. Obviously we’re excited to see Tua, but you hate to see it negatively impact a guy who has been such a joy to watch in the last year and a half.

I would love to see Fitz stay on as Tua’s backup next year or him take a role with the coaching staff, but he said today his favorite part of football is playing and competing.
I don't blame him for being disappointed, but it's surprising that Fitzpatrick was blindsided by this. The decision to start Tua after the bye was likely the plan all along, or at least a commonly known strong possibility--reinforced by the fact that they stuck with it even after Fitz's consistently strong play. Either coaches/management did a poor job communicating with him or he is expressing his frustration in a potentially divise way. I mean, hopefully stellar play by Tua will render all of this a distant memory but in the meantime, not so good for a team that has been pretty vocal about how it's establishing a new "winning culture."
 

sodenj5

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I don't blame him for being disappointed, but it's surprising that Fitzpatrick was blindsided by this. The decision to start Tua after the bye was likely the plan all along, or at least a commonly known strong possibility--reinforced by the fact that they stuck with it even after Fitz's consistently strong play. Either coaches/management did a poor job communicating with him or he is expressing his frustration in a potentially divise way. I mean, hopefully stellar play by Tua will render all of this a distant memory but in the meantime, not so good for a team that has been pretty vocal about how it's establishing a new "winning culture."
I think that if the bye was still in Week 11, Fitz is still the starter for this Sunday’s game.

The reshuffling of the schedule likely did Fitz in here, but long term, it’s irrelevant. He knew this was always going to happen. He said it at the beginning of the year and he said it yesterday. I just think he was surprised they pulled the trigger so quickly while he was playing well.

Ultimately Fitz should hold his head high because this is the first time in his career where he’s being benched, and it has absolutely nothing to do with him or his play. The switch is not an indictment on his play, but a testament to the upside they believe Tua has.
 

Kliq

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I just imagined that Fitz would get the plug pulled on him after one of his classic 5 INT performances, not when he seems to have things going. In the long run it is the right call to get Tua more reps, but I'd be rightly bummed if I was Fitzpatrick. It was clear from watching the games and hearing some quotes from teammates that he played with a lot of passion and helped install a positive team culture that was necessary for a young team in transition.
 

johnmd20

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I just imagined that Fitz would get the plug pulled on him after one of his classic 5 INT performances, not when he seems to have things going. In the long run it is the right call to get Tua more reps, but I'd be rightly bummed if I was Fitzpatrick. It was clear from watching the games and hearing some quotes from teammates that he played with a lot of passion and helped install a positive team culture that was necessary for a young team in transition.
Yeah, Fitz got done dirty here, of that there is no doubt. At the same time, Miami drafted Tua because he's the future. Fitzy is 37 years old and he's taken a pounding over the years, he is obviously not the future of any franchise.

So I understand why Miami did it and it's the right long term move but they did do Fitz dirty. He's playing like a Top 10 QB right now. And Miami just pulled the plug.
 

BigJimEd

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Fitz is middle of the road in QB rating, y/a and DVOA. And the offense as a whole is right there in the middle.
They owe him nothing. Unless Tua was struggling in practice, not moving to him would be malpractice

If Fitz is surprised with this then he has taken too many hits.