2020 Divisional Weekend Game Thread: Nevermore

DanoooME

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This was all house money. I didnt expect them to make the post season when this season started so I'm thrilled where they ended up
I mean, on balance I should be happy, but I really wanted to see that rubber match with SF. I think the Pack gets blown out again.

They certainly will have no shortage of needs - OL and DL being the big two.
 

mauf

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Fair enough, I must be thinking of another sport. Though it's also fair to point out that there's another shot that makes it seem like the yellow line and the actual first down marker didn't match up, and the actual first down marker was short of the 36. I assume the refs can't use the yellow line itself to determine first downs because it's not real, he may have still been short, but I don't think it's nearly the no brainer everyone is making it out to be.

As others have pointed out it's insane that in a multi billion dollar league this is how we determine first downs anyway.
The yellow line was maybe six inches off. So if Graham was half a yard (at least) shy of that line, he was short of the first down.

Yes, it’s odd that we haven’t replaced the chains with technology, but the officials had the tools they needed to make the right call; they just didn’t use them.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Among the many oddities and inconsistencies with spotting the ball and replay is that the linesman spots the ball where they deem the runner down, but when the spot of the ball is reviewed the refs are limited to re-spotting the ball on the whole or half yard line. "The ball was short of the line to gain and will be spotted at the 10 and a half yard line." even if the ball on replay shows that it was just short of the yard marker by three inches.
 

CFB_Rules

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I've complained since I was a kid at how they bring out the chains to measure a possible first down down to the inch, when they completely guessed the starting point in the first place.
Dirty tricks of the business coming here: 99% of the time a new series will be started exactly on a hash, and if they can fudge to get it on a big 5 yard line they’ll do that too. So if the ball is touching the next big line they know immediately it’s a first down, which is the case here

Also, many balls DO have chips in them and have for years to relay location data. It’s not used for officiating for....reasons?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Dirty tricks of the business coming here: 99% of the time a new series will be started exactly on a hash, and if they can fudge to get it on a big 5 yard line they’ll do that too. So if the ball is touching the next big line they know immediately it’s a first down, which is the case here

Also, many balls DO have chips in them and have for years to relay location data. It’s not used for officiating for....reasons?
GTFO. Really? Source?
 

ThePrideofShiner

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Seattle's inability to play a good first half is crippling. Why not just unleash Russ from the start rather than when down multiple scores? Irritating to say the least.

That said, this season was certainly unexpected and I'm happy with the result.
 

Kliq

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It was a tough break for Seattle; they were a team that had a great running game for most of the season, and then lost Carson who is a top ten back, as well as Penny who was starting to break out a bit, and really couldn't run the ball. Wilson played his ass off to compensate and made a ton of plays with his legs, and made his wideouts look better than they really were. How many times today did Wilson buy 5+ seconds to pass with his feet, but no one got open? If you gave Wilson Green Bay's running game, plus Adams and Graham, Seattle would have crushed Green Bay.
 

DanoooME

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It was a tough break for Seattle; they were a team that had a great running game for most of the season, and then lost Carson who is a top ten back, as well as Penny who was starting to break out a bit, and really couldn't run the ball. Wilson played his ass off to compensate and made a ton of plays with his legs, and made his wideouts look better than they really were. How many times today did Wilson buy 5+ seconds to pass with his feet, but no one got open? If you gave Wilson Green Bay's running game, plus Adams and Graham, Seattle would have crushed Green Bay.
There were at least 3 replays I saw where Lockett or Metcalf were open and Wilson missed them. And there were a few where there was no one open.

Seattle's big problem was the OL injuries more than their 4th and 5th string RBs. The line was a disaster. Brown was decent at best; he definitely blew a couple of assignments clearly. Jones was nondescript; Haynes was probably equally as good as a replacement. Hunt has been getting run over all season; and they may not bring back Justin Britt either because of the seriousness of his injury and the fact that he'll count over $11m on next year's cap. Ifedi is fucking horrible and Fluker is just okay. So they will need to definitely replace 3 of 5 guys on the line (Iupati and Ifedi are UFAs) and their best lineman will be 35.
 

strek1

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It was a tough break for Seattle; they were a team that had a great running game for most of the season, and then lost Carson who is a top ten back, as well as Penny who was starting to break out a bit, and really couldn't run the ball. Wilson played his ass off to compensate and made a ton of plays with his legs, and made his wideouts look better than they really were. How many times today did Wilson buy 5+ seconds to pass with his feet, but no one got open? If you gave Wilson Green Bay's running game, plus Adams and Graham, Seattle would have crushed Green Bay.
If, if , if. - And if Gronk were still playing so would New England. By the way Green Bay's best offensive Lineman was out with the flu. Don't think they didn't miss him big time. And while we're at it, put George Kittle on any team with a decent QB and they are going to look a hell of a lot better.
 

ThePrideofShiner

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If the Seahawks had Graham? That's no if. They would've lost just like tonight. Seattle had it's chances despite a shit ton of injuries, but GB made enough plays to win.

It happens.
 

DeadlySplitter

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I heard that Billy O'B said he thought he needed to score 50 to win today.

he's right - but why are you admitting that to the media? and if that is the mentality, you don't kick on 4th & 1 (apparently Houston thought they had the 1st, refs gave a meh spot, they weren't prepared afterwards...)

how did Billy O'B come from the Belicheck tree again?
 

Humphrey

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I heard that Billy O'B said he thought he needed to score 50 to win today.

he's right - but why are you admitting that to the media? and if that is the mentality, you don't kick on 4th & 1 (apparently Houston thought they had the 1st, refs gave a meh spot, they weren't prepared afterwards...)

how did Billy O'B come from the Belicheck tree again?
You can't justify the fake punt in light of not going for it 4th and a short 1. You can count on your hand the number of comebacks, regular or post season, from 28-0 down. That was a chance to break KC's back.
By the way, media created superstar JJ Watt's got a habit of being invisible in games. Yesterday was one of them.
 

loshjott

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I heard that Billy O'B said he thought he needed to score 50 to win today.

he's right - but why are you admitting that to the media? and if that is the mentality, you don't kick on 4th & 1 (apparently Houston thought they had the 1st, refs gave a meh spot, they weren't prepared afterwards...)

how did Billy O'B come from the Belicheck tree again?
Have you looked at the "Belicheck" tree? Bill O'B may be the most successful NFL coach of the bunch (so far).
 

glennhoffmania

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Tennis started the Hawk-Eye system in 2005. NFL could have chipped the balls a long time ago and end all the guesswork but nope.
How would chipped balls solve these problems? In tennis the ball is either in or out. In football it all depends on when a body part touches the ground. Putting a chip in the ball doesn't solve the problem of figuring out when an elbow or knee or ass cheek is down.
 

BaseballJones

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I think the championship games are going to be super intriguing. Tennessee's got a pretty good secondary, and they held opposing QBs to a 90.4 rating during the season. And of course, offensively, they have just a brutally effective running game, and Tannehill is good enough to take advantage of teams loading up to stop the run. They could possess the ball for 40 minutes next Sunday. They need to make sure they come away with touchdowns and not field goals when they get into the red zone. If they do that, they have got more than a legit chance. But if Mahomes gets it going and KC's run D is solid, Tennessee could be in for a long day.

SF-GB....The best team in the NFC vs. Aaron Rodgers. Should be a fun contest. I'd say when all is said and done, KC and SF should emerge and that would be a hell of a Super Bowl matchup.
 

DeadlySplitter

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I don't understand the sentiment that 28-0 was appreciably more lockdown than 24-0, especially the way the game played out (KC only stopped themselves early due to drops).

the first 21 points the Texans scored were not really offensive prowess - a huge defensive breakdown, and two special teams plays. in that light, the Chiefs won 51-10 yesterday with some handicap. that's just non-competitive.
 

Al Zarilla

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How would chipped balls solve these problems? In tennis the ball is either in or out. In football it all depends on when a body part touches the ground. Putting a chip in the ball doesn't solve the problem of figuring out when an elbow or knee or ass cheek is down.
Chip in a ball can tell you if the ball got to or crossed the line to gain or goal line though. It can also put a time stamp on that crossing. Then, the refs, or New York can look at footage to see if any body part that matters made contact with the ground before that time. Kind of thing that MLB would try out in the minors first. NFL, of course, has no minors. How does the chip know where the line to gain is? Maybe a laser coming in from the sideline, even the yardsticks. In any case, it can be done, like robot umpires, just a matter of committing to it.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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How would chipped balls solve these problems? In tennis the ball is either in or out. In football it all depends on when a body part touches the ground. Putting a chip in the ball doesn't solve the problem of figuring out when an elbow or knee or ass cheek is down.
Match the location data with a video time stamp of the moment when the runner is deemed down.
 

ShaneTrot

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As a Pats fan, watching WRs and TEs getting open all over the place this weekend was a little jarring. That fucking Texans defense stoned the Pats until garbage time.
 

BaseballJones

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As a Pats fan, watching WRs and TEs getting open all over the place this weekend was a little jarring. That fucking Texans defense stoned the Pats until garbage time.
Regarding the Texans/KC matchup..... The talent level at the skill positions for KC is just light years ahead of NE's. And yes, that includes QB, where Mahomes, right now, is better than Brady. He won't have the same kind of career Brady had but he's better now.

Mahomes >> Brady
Kelce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any NE TE
Hill >>>> a banged up Edelman
Williams >>> Michel
Watkins >>>>>>>>>>> Dorsett
Hardman >>>>>> Harry
Robinson >>>>>>>> Meyers

I mean, it's not even remotely close.
 

HriniakPosterChild

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Seattle's inability to play a good first half is crippling. Why not just unleash Russ from the start rather than when down multiple scores? Irritating to say the least.
A: Their “identity” as a run-based offense.

Russell Wilson is a better QB when the run is a threat because any QB is a better QB when the run is a threat.

(Disclaimer: I know nothing about football.)
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think of it more as a shrub that a tree.

If a tree, I'm going with bonsai.
Pretty reasonable case that Vrabel, by virtue of making a AFC title game, is now the best NFL branch of the tree (if we consider him part of it as a former player)
 

Kliq

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Regarding the Texans/KC matchup..... The talent level at the skill positions for KC is just light years ahead of NE's. And yes, that includes QB, where Mahomes, right now, is better than Brady. He won't have the same kind of career Brady had but he's better now.

Mahomes >> Brady
Kelce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any NE TE
Hill >>>> a banged up Edelman
Williams >>> Michel
Watkins >>>>>>>>>>> Dorsett
Hardman >>>>>> Harry
Robinson >>>>>>>> Meyers

I mean, it's not even remotely close.
Houston's secondary was also really banged up and missing multiple starters, IIRC.
 

54thMA

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Pretty reasonable case that Vrabel, by virtue of making a AFC title game, is now the best NFL branch of the tree (if we consider him part of it as a former player)
I agree 100%; he's the best of the bunch.

By far.

O'Brien, Magini, McDaniels, Crennel, Patricia, not so much.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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As a Pats fan, watching WRs and TEs getting open all over the place this weekend was a little jarring. That fucking Texans defense stoned the Pats until garbage time.
I actually had this same takeaway. Seemed like offenses were moving the ball with relative ease this weekend. Not only were they completing passes, but there often wasn't even a defender for 1-2 yards.
 

Harry Hooper

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I actually had this same takeaway. Seemed like offenses were moving the ball with relative ease this weekend. Not only were they completing passes, but there often wasn't even a defender for 1-2 yards.
Offensive holding calls seem all-but-nonexistent in the playoffs.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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uncannymanny

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But it is. A chip in the ball doesn’t say anything about the ball’s context. Just wait for the issues implementing this stuff. Technology concerns are very easy to handwave, much harder to implement in real life.
 

BaseballJones

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But it is. A chip in the ball doesn’t say anything about the ball’s context. Just wait for the issues implementing this stuff. Technology concerns are very easy to handwave, much harder to implement in real life.
But it certainly could help say, in goal-line or short-yardage situations where a guy dives into a pile and there's just a mass of bodies and nobody can actually see what's going on. If the chip (which probably would need to be a couple) doesn't get to the line to gain (or goal line), then it can't be a first down (or touchdown). It won't solve everything but it could help at least.
 

uncannymanny

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What happens when the accuracy doesn’t agree with a replay angle? The added complexity with a new system, at the stage it’s at, doesn’t seem to be worth it IMO.
 

BaseballJones

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What happens when the accuracy doesn’t agree with a replay angle? The added complexity with a new system, at the stage it’s at, doesn’t seem to be worth it IMO.
Like I said, it wouldn't solve everything, but in many cases could be very helpful. I don't think there's any perfect solution.
 

uncannymanny

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We don’t know anything about its reliability except that it’s about 6” accurate, which itself is not ideal when we’re talking about portions of a ball’s length. That’s the sales pitch best case accuracy. What’s the worst case and the distributions of accuracy? How often does it lose connectivity? These things all matter.
 

brandonchristensen

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RE: chip in the ball. If it had a time code that matches the tv broadcast, they could dial in the replay moment when the knee (or whatever) hits and have accurate data of where the ball is.
 

uncannymanny

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Within no less than 6”. And you’ve watched NFL reviews, no? Time code syncing?? They are nowhere near capable of handling complexities like this, much less the inherent failures of the system.

I’ll ask: what about the NFL and its officiating gives you confidence they could employ a new, far more complex electronic system effectively? I mean we’re talking about a play where the visual evidence was entirely clear.
 

CFB_Rules

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The bottom line is the NFL doesn't give a damn about officiating. Blandino was paid 300k when he was in charge of the officiating department. It sounds like a lot of money until you realize he's the second most public face of a multi-billion dollar behemoth, in charge of over 400 people, and has to live in Manhattan. Everything else related to NFL officiating is even cheaper than that.

The thought process is that people are going to whine about the officials no matter how good they are, so who gives a shit. And cynically, they are probably right.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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The bottom line is the NFL doesn't give a damn about officiating. Blandino was paid 300k when he was in charge of the officiating department. It sounds like a lot of money until you realize he's the second most public face of a multi-billion dollar behemoth, in charge of over 400 people, and has to live in Manhattan. Everything else related to NFL officiating is even cheaper than that.

The thought process is that people are going to whine about the officials no matter how good they are, so who gives a shit. And cynically, they are probably right.
Even more cynically, I think it is possible that officiating controversy is a net positive. Catch no catch, replay, it endlessly propels the NFL into a 12 month news cycle that people cannot get enough of. And everyone’s feelings about it all are tribal, rarely consistent.

CTE and domestic violence have proven to be neutral. The only potential existential threat to football at this point is game fixing or points fixing. I think. I am not even sure. If we had a crystal ball, and could see into the future, football in 30 years might very well look like WWE. And be even more popular.