2020 Bucs: TB12 in TB20 - How Far Do They Go?

Assuming the 2020 season is actually played, how far do you think the TB12 led Bucs will go?

  • Win SB

  • Play in SB

  • Make it to the NFCCG

  • Make playoffs

  • Contend but no playoffs (~6-8 wins)

  • Blow chunks (<6 wins)


Results are only viewable after voting.

BaseballJones

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Obligatory caveat: I’ll love him forever for the amazing 20 years, blah, blah, blah. But I have to say, his public demeanor for about the last 7 months has been pretty insufferable. The pouting after so many games, even wins, last year. The dismissal of any obligation to do extra work with the young, inexperienced receivers last year. The continued, very public, pining for a misogynistic, sociopathic scum bag like AB. The cutesy, teasing social media posts about his future. The Goop-like drivel social media post announcing the next step in his football/life journey, on the same day a massive, global health and economic crisis was ramping up to another level. And finally, his revelation today that he is all in on OTAs again, and the inevitable conclusion that his skipping them here for the last couple of years, supposedly to spend more time with his family, was complete bullshit, and just him pouting about his contract, or whatever else. Again, he is one of my top 2-3 favorite athletes of time, but he has been more than a little diva-ish in recent months.
If there's *ever* been a player in NFL history who deserved some special treatment, to act like a diva, it's Brady. He's the greatest QB, the greatest player, of all time, and nobody has meant more to his team than Brady has to the Patriots in the history of the sport. And it's not remotely close on that score.

But BB treated him basically like everyone else. You go see what's out there for you and come back to me. Brady did, but then only went back to the team to let them know he was leaving. He had to earn his special parking spot like everyone else. He got called out in team meetings like everyone else. No star treatment, really, for Brady. If anyone deserved star treatment, it was him.

I can see why, after a while, that could grate on him. But it's also clearly (from the testimony of SO many players over the years) that such treatment of Brady helped build a culture of accountability and "do your job" unlike anywhere else in the NFL. If BB treats TOM F****** BRADY like that, I better bust my ass. After 20 years of it, maybe Brady was like, ok that's about enough of that.

Maybe we'll never know the inside scoop. But I do agree that he did seem diva-ish this past year or so. This is not me slamming him on the way out. Total respect for him and for what he's done for the Pats and he deserved his chance to make his own call here. No hard feelings.
 

kelpapa

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Agree wholeheartedly. Particularly hurtful was the negativity towards the younger receivers (like Harry and Meyers) and which I felt was detrimental to the goals of the team. Hearing the greatest QB/human of all time say generic things like “they have to put the work in” can’t be good for the confidence (If he told me I suck at my job, I’d be like, yeah, I totally suck at my job). And frankly he wasn’t perfect either last year.

By way of contrast, take for example the 2013 (?) season, when he was working with less than stellar talents like Kenbrell Thompkins and Dobson. I remember an upbeat attitude (“were 6-2, were in a good spot, etc”), even though realistically they weren’t a Super Bowl team that year. Sharply contrasts with the vibes he sent out last year.
I remember 2013 completely differently. His young receivers were constantly running the wrong routes. His on the field body language was complete dogshit, and he showed those guys up constantly when they screwed up. He's always been hard on young guys.
 

cornwalls@6

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If there's *ever* been a player in NFL history who deserved some special treatment, to act like a diva, it's Brady. He's the greatest QB, the greatest player, of all time, and nobody has meant more to his team than Brady has to the Patriots in the history of the sport. And it's not remotely close on that score.

But BB treated him basically like everyone else. You go see what's out there for you and come back to me. Brady did, but then only went back to the team to let them know he was leaving. He had to earn his special parking spot like everyone else. He got called out in team meetings like everyone else. No star treatment, really, for Brady. If anyone deserved star treatment, it was him.

I can see why, after a while, that could grate on him. But it's also clearly (from the testimony of SO many players over the years) that such treatment of Brady helped build a culture of accountability and "do your job" unlike anywhere else in the NFL. If BB treats TOM F****** BRADY like that, I better bust my ass. After 20 years of it, maybe Brady was like, ok that's about enough of that.

Maybe we'll never know the inside scoop. But I do agree that he did seem diva-ish this past year or so. This is not me slamming him on the way out. Total respect for him and for what he's done for the Pats and he deserved his chance to make his own call here. No hard feelings.
Obviously, I share all those big picture good
feelings and appreciation for him, and none of this taints anything he accomplished here, in any way. But, some his behavior was really off-putting to me , and seemed antithetical to everything that made him so great, and made all of us admire him so much. As it was happening, I really couldn’t even bring myself to say it out loud, to myself. I think the OTA thing was kind of the trigger. Leaving for more money, or even because he’s sick of BB, doesn’t bother me in the least. But the feeling that maybe he didn’t do everything he could have, and always did in the past, to maximize last year, and now he’s gung ho to do those things again, sort of stuck in my craw, and set me off a little. To the point of my original post maybe coming off as too harsh.
 

RedOctober3829

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So much for wanting the family to be closer to his son that lives in New York. Basically Brady wanted the Patriots to kiss his ass and show him the money.
While your last sentence may be true, I would think his family would move wherever he went. He preferred to be on the East Coast so he can have a shorter flight to NYC to visit his son and vice versa. Hope Gisele like to eat at Hooters.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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I lost my job on Monday due to this virus mayhem. But this feels like the bigger gut punch of the two.

BB’s ego got in the way of this. Brady should’ve been afforded the opportunity to retire a Patriot.

Belichick is going to be gone in 2 or 3 years. THE RUN WAS FUCKING ENDING IF NOT ALREADY OVER. Who gives a shit how BB leaves the franchise? I truly don’t. However lengthy a rebuild was going to be, shoving Brady unceremoniously out the door isn’t going to make me feel happy when the team is back to being good in 2023 instead of 2024.
Sorry to hear about the job loss.

I don't know where the "showing Brady unceremoniously out the door" comes into play when it was Brady who demanded the franchise and transition tag options be eliminated from his contact last summer. Brady choose to be a FA, wanted to be a FA, and decided to sign as a FA with Tampa Bay. This isn't Belichick trading him to the Browns for a 4th round pick.
 

jsinger121

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Sorry to hear about the job loss.

I don't know where the "showing Brady unceremoniously out the door" comes into play when it was Brady who demanded the franchise and transition tag options be eliminated from his contact last summer. Brady choose to be a FA, wanted to be a FA, and decided to sign as a FA with Tampa Bay. This isn't Belichick trading him to the Browns for a 4th round pick.
Totally agree with this. And BB treats every play the same whether you are a superstar QB or the 53rd guy on the roster. He isn't going to kiss your ass for any reason. 2020 for the Patriots will be about getting out of the dead money commitments like they did in 2000 except they will have a better overall roster. If they can develop Stidham and he progresses well then 2021 and beyond they will be set up.
 

BigSoxFan

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Sorry to hear about the job loss.

I don't know where the "showing Brady unceremoniously out the door" comes into play when it was Brady who demanded the franchise and transition tag options be eliminated from his contact last summer. Brady choose to be a FA, wanted to be a FA, and decided to sign as a FA with Tampa Bay. This isn't Belichick trading him to the Browns for a 4th round pick.
Yeah. I am perfectly at ease with this. The guy wanted to leave. Sucks that it had to happen with an icon but cleanest break I can remember. And he’s 43 in September. The last thing I wanted to see was Brady sucking in a Pats uniform.
 

Super Nomario

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So Brady plans to attend the Bucs OTAs this year, with all the new receivers the Pats had last year wish he could have made the same decision last year.
I don't know why anyone would expect differently. They install the offense at OTAs. Brady coming to the install of an offense he's never worked in before is a pretty different value proposition for him than the 19th and 20th installs of the offense he's played his whole career in.

It was not the whole truth that Brady skipped OTAs because he "wanted to spend time with his family," but I think it's unarguable that a) he did want to spend time with his family (who doesn't?) and b) it would have been way worse / more distracting if he had told the whole truth here.

OTAs are 10 sessions, limited to two hours each. Divided among three quarterbacks and what, 12 or 14 receivers they had in camp, Brady is not going to be throwing to anybody very much. He probably got more throws working with Harry at his his house than he would have in the entire OTAs.

Beyond that, OTAs are so vitally important that Bill Belichick only scheduled 7 out of the 10 allotted sessions ... and canceled the final two.
 

nolasoxfan

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I have nothing but gratitude, admiration, and respect for Tom Brady the New England Patriot. I could give two shits about Tom Brady the Tampa Bay Buccaneer. I don’t wish him any ill will, but I don’t wish him well either. IMHO, not ending his career with the Pats doesn’t affect his New England Sports Mount Rushmore status, but it’s a blight nonetheless. I will always think of him differently than Bird, Russell, Yaz, and Teddy Ballgame. So it goes...
 

DJnVa

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There probably won't be OTAs this year, so I think he's promising something he knows ain't happening.
 

snowmanny

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Do they boot the TB12 business out of Patriot Place? Or too petty? Because hyping his snake oil right now is something I wouldn't want to be associated with.
Over the next 20 -30 years there likely will be various opportunities for the Patriots and Brady to profit from joint ventures, including at Patriot Place. Why would you want to do anything to blow that up?
 

cornwalls@6

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Over the next 20 -30 years there likely will be various opportunities for the Patriots and Brady to profit from joint ventures, including at Patriot Place. Why would you want to do anything to blow that up?
Because peddling snake oil in the time of the worst pandemic since 1919, with a rapidly mounting death toll, might be something they don't want to associate themselves with. There are plenty of other ways to market your brand, and profit from it. And as much as I love him, Brady needs to watch it with this bullshit. It's bordering on dangerous and irresponsible. It's relatively harmless to try and convince people this stuff will make them a better athlete. It's not harmless to sell this as some sort of de facto vaccine against COVID-19.
 

E5 Yaz

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I will always think of him differently than Bird, Russell, Yaz, and Teddy Ballgame. So it goes...
Bird was GM and coach of the Pacers. Russell coached the SuperSonics and the Sacramento Kings. Williams managed the Senators/Rangers

How DARE they join other franchises
 

lexrageorge

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Could someone provide a link to this supposed peddling of CoVid-19 cures by the TB12 Corp? I'll remain skeptical otherwise.
 

Ed Hillel

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Do they boot the TB12 business out of Patriot Place? Or too petty? Because hyping his snake oil right now is something I wouldn't want to be associated with.
That's not exactly what he's doing, but I don't like it one bit either way. He's basically saying that his stuff will boost your immunity, which will help fight the virus. It's a shitty thing to be doing atm either way imo.
 

snowmanny

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Because peddling snake oil in the time of the worst pandemic since 1919, with a rapidly mounting death toll, might be something they don't want to associate themselves with. There are plenty of other ways to market your brand, and profit from it. And as much as I love him, Brady needs to watch it with this bullshit. It's bordering on dangerous and irresponsible. It's relatively harmless to try and convince people this stuff will make them a better athlete. It's not harmless to sell this as some sort of de facto vaccine against COVID-19.
Maybe I misunderstood. I thought the idea posited in the post was that now that he’s not on the Patriots he would be kicked out of Patriot Place.

If the idea was he was selling a crappy product with which the team should not associate, that makes more sense and I can’t really disagree, but that would be nothing new. I don’t think the virus really changes the equation on whether it is a scam or not.
 

E5 Yaz

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I'll cop to stronger wording than was necessary, but if anyone thinks a renewed push of his "immunity water" isn't timed to recent events, I don't what to tell you.
There are plenty of products and foods that "boost" your immune system. Brady's "gameplan" that Ed Hillel mentioned includes staying hydrated, eating vegetables and taking Vitamin D ... But you're right ... burn him at the stake!!!

 
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Shaky Walton

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My attitude to TB12 while Tom was on the Pats was along the lines of whatever works. I was never sure what to believe but had to give a nod to the fact that Tom generally avoided injury in such a violent sport and was able to be awesome at an age when everyone else fades away or just sucks. Facts like he was in bed with a guy who did some truly awful things were inconvenient but I was able to pretty much ignore it and hold onto the notion that people change. Sometimes the things I heard Tom say generated an eye roll but my reaction was usually more like bemused indifference.

Now I literally never want to see or hear about his methods. Zero interest. Now he sounds like a dipshit to me. I admit my biases and embrace them opnely. I mean, I do hope that some of his former teammates on the Pats continue to benefit from TB12 if it works for them. But hearing from Brady about any of this? No thank you.
 

cornwalls@6

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There are plenty of products and foods that "boost" your immune system. Brady's "gameplay" that Ed Hillel mentioned includes staying hydrated, eating vegetables and taking Vitamin D ... But you're right ... burn him at the stake!!!

You don't think that instagram post that @Ed Hillel(who, as I read it, was also put-off by Brady's marketing of this stuff) shared is suggesting that his, completely unendorsed by the medical community, products are a way to protect oneself from C-19? I think it went significantly beyond just diet and hydration tips. I mean, he was a great player here, I loved him too, but c'mon man.
 

cornwalls@6

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Maybe I misunderstood. I thought the idea posited in the post was that now that he’s not on the Patriots he would be kicked out of Patriot Place.

If the idea was he was selling a crappy product with which the team should not associate, that makes more sense and I can’t really disagree, but that would be nothing new. I don’t think the virus really changes the equation on whether it is a scam or not.
My bad if my first post suggested that. I don't think simply his leaving would ever be a reason for them to dis-associate with TB12 facilities or products. I think the vast majority of what TB12 pushes is harmless, but promoting, even subtly and indirectly, anything other than what the legit medical community advises when it comes to C-19, is a bit of a third rail, IMO.
 

nolasoxfan

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Bird was GM and coach of the Pacers. Russell coached the SuperSonics and the Sacramento Kings. Williams managed the Senators/Rangers

How DARE they join other franchises
Yes, but they didn’t PLAY for other franchises. Look, my man crush for Tom Brady, New England Patriot QB, knows no bounds. Mrs. nolasoxfan will provide a testimonial for those in doubt. Seeing TB12 PLAYING in another uniform is a thread pull on your favorite sweater. That’s all I’m saying. It tarnishes the memory--ever so slightly, perhaps, but tarnish nonetheless. For me, anyway. YMMV.
 

bakahump

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Back to Brady and TB. So have we definitively heard what offense they are implementing?

I have firmly been in the "They are not implementing a new offense for Brady Camp". I still believe that. It will be interesting because the current TB offense does not fit his strengths. Nor does it lend itself to a 43yo QBs health (Deep threat WRs+Bad OL= Qb Sacks).
I have also said that IF they are indeed having Brady learn (as opposed to 10 other guys) they will NOT be in sync early on which will reduce his overall numbers. (to be fair they would not be in sync if 10 guys were learning Bradys offense either....).

The more I think about it I think this is going to be a bigger failure then I thought. Mind you not a TOTAL failure, but not a success, smashing or otherwise.

I voted Playoffs. Thinking they miss them now, And Brady misses a few games.
 

Super Nomario

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Back to Brady and TB. So have we definitively heard what offense they are implementing?

I have firmly been in the "They are not implementing a new offense for Brady Camp". I still believe that. It will be interesting because the current TB offense does not fit his strengths. Nor does it lend itself to a 43yo QBs health (Deep threat WRs+Bad OL= Qb Sacks).
I have also said that IF they are indeed having Brady learn (as opposed to 10 other guys) they will NOT be in sync early on which will reduce his overall numbers. (to be fair they would not be in sync if 10 guys were learning Bradys offense either....).

The more I think about it I think this is going to be a bigger failure then I thought. Mind you not a TOTAL failure, but not a success, smashing or otherwise.

I voted Playoffs. Thinking they miss them now, And Brady misses a few games.
It sounds like they are keeping Arians' terminology, so Brady is going to have to learn the lingo. As far as passing concepts / playbook, I can't imagine there is anything under the sun Brady hasn't seen before. They might not have run things to the same degree Arians has, but it's not like Brady's unfamiliar with deep passing concepts. Some of the adjustments and coaching nuances will be slightly different, though much of that stuff is common sense (you adjust a post to a dig if there's a single high safety, because otherwise you're just running into the coverage).

There was a cool article a few years back where Carson Palmer talked about Arians' system. Arians picks all the plays for that week, but lets the QB pick his favorite 15 pass plays for the opening script (Arians scripts 30 plays: 15 pass, 15 run), including the first four. I think Arians has a lot built into his system to make the quarterback pretty comfortable.
 

tims4wins

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Yes, but they didn’t PLAY for other franchises. Look, my man crush for Tom Brady, New England Patriot QB, knows no bounds. Mrs. nolasoxfan will provide a testimonial for those in doubt. Seeing TB12 PLAYING in another uniform is a thread pull on your favorite sweater. That’s all I’m saying. It tarnishes the memory--ever so slightly, perhaps, but tarnish nonetheless. For me, anyway. YMMV.
I agree. It maybe only tarnishes him 0.1% or less or whatever it is, but it's an ever so slight blemish that he left, especially in lieu of his comments on OTAs.

I'm not going to lie, maybe this makes me petty, but I think I am kind of rooting against him this year.
 

BigSoxFan

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We’re definitely delving in the irrational petty sports arguments territory but I kind of don’t want him to win another title with someone else. It’d be like Shaq winning a title with the Heat.

I won’t be rooting against Brady but I won’t be rooting for him either. Will pretty much tune in out of curiosity to see what he has left. Now, if he’s playing a team I hate, then I’ll certainly root for him.

It’s basically the same way I felt about Pedro on the Mets/Phillies.
 

BigJimEd

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He is shilling a "immunity-boost" water supplement in social media. Really don't like that look right now.
Where? That does not sound like a good look.

Well for one I think BB is finally happy to be rid of Alex Guerrero. That is definitely one positive to this.
Probably.
I see a lot of people taking Kraft's comments about someone making these relationship impossible, to be about Belichick. But I think it can also be viewed as someone outside the Pats org le Guerrero.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Where? That does not sound like a good look.


Probably.
I see a lot of people taking Kraft's comments about someone making these relationship impossible, to be about Belichick. But I think it can also be viewed as someone outside the Pats org le Guerrero.
It was on one of his Instagram Stories. It was specifically for the water supplement. Like, he wasn't in it, just showed the supplement bottle squirting into the water saying that it helps boost your immunization.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Yes, but they didn’t PLAY for other franchises. Look, my man crush for Tom Brady, New England Patriot QB, knows no bounds. Mrs. nolasoxfan will provide a testimonial for those in doubt. Seeing TB12 PLAYING in another uniform is a thread pull on your favorite sweater. That’s all I’m saying. It tarnishes the memory--ever so slightly, perhaps, but tarnish nonetheless. For me, anyway. YMMV.
Ray Bourque and Bobby Orr both left for other teams and played for them, and they are still legends. Pedro played for the Mets and Phillies. Brady isn't Clemens/Boggs leaving to go the Yankees to win rings, he's won his rings and done everything we could have ever hoped for. If the Pats remain successful as an organization and are able to attract free agents going forward after this year (when I think they'll suck regardless), Tom Brady will be a big reason why, whereas 20 years ago, you couldn't pay top dollar to get anyone to come to this team...

This isn't directed at you, but to the folks talking about OTA's. As DJ said, he's promising something that isn't happening anyway. Goodell just ordered all NFL teams to close their facilities tonight until at least April 8th. OTAs are supposed to start in mid-May. I'm willing to bet a bunch of money that they don't happen, and there is a good chance training camp doesn't start on time.

I'm not sure how anyone can not be rooting for Brady. If it came down to the Pats/Bucs in the Super Bowl, sure, we're all rooting for the Pats, but I'd want to see Brady throw for 500 yards and 6td's and lose 54-51....
 

nolasoxfan

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I agree. It maybe only tarnishes him 0.1% or less or whatever it is, but it's an ever so slight blemish that he left, especially in lieu of his comments on OTAs.

I'm not going to lie, maybe this makes me petty, but I think I am kind of rooting against him this year.
Exactly. That’s what I was trying to say. It’s that slight blemish on an otherwise perfect apple.
Look, now you made me cry again... ;)
 

Super Nomario

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I agree heartily with all your post except for this -- as this kind of game would absolutely kill me deader than if I caught COVID, went up in flames, and fell off a 40-story bulding.
Yeah I love Tom Brady and hope he does awesome in Tampa Bay, but if we play them I'm rooting for 12 sacks, 4 picks, and a 40-point blowout, like I do every week.
 

Shaky Walton

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Ray Bourque and Bobby Orr both left for other teams and played for them, and they are still legends. Pedro played for the Mets and Phillies. Brady isn't Clemens/Boggs leaving to go the Yankees to win rings, he's won his rings and done everything we could have ever hoped for. If the Pats remain successful as an organization and are able to attract free agents going forward after this year (when I think they'll suck regardless), Tom Brady will be a big reason why, whereas 20 years ago, you couldn't pay top dollar to get anyone to come to this team...

This isn't directed at you, but to the folks talking about OTA's. As DJ said, he's promising something that isn't happening anyway. Goodell just ordered all NFL teams to close their facilities tonight until at least April 8th. OTAs are supposed to start in mid-May. I'm willing to bet a bunch of money that they don't happen, and there is a good chance training camp doesn't start on time.

I'm not sure how anyone can not be rooting for Brady. If it came down to the Pats/Bucs in the Super Bowl, sure, we're all rooting for the Pats, but I'd want to see Brady throw for 500 yards and 6td's and lose 54-51....
It's not complicated. Some fans root ONLY for their teams. I'm one of the them. I'm saddened that Tom left but I'm in no way bitter or angry. And I could care less about the OTAs. I don't care how he prepares in any way for Tampa.

Now I do like certain players on other teams and generally wish them well. Jimmy G and Drew Brees fall into that category. Tom will too. But that's about it and to be clear, I'm not equating Tom with either of those guys. Tom remains my favorite player in any sport of all time.
 

BaseballJones

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It's not complicated. Some fans root ONLY for their teams. I'm one of the them. I'm saddened that Tom left but I'm in no way bitter or angry. And I could care less about the OTAs. I don't care how he prepares in any way for Tampa.

Now I do like certain players on other teams and generally wish them well. Jimmy G and Drew Brees fall into that category. Tom will too. But that's about it and to be clear, I'm not equating Tom with either of those guys. Tom remains my favorite player in any sport of all time.
Team first.
Opponents of hated arch rivals second.
Favorite non-team players third.

That's the correct order.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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We’re definitely delving in the irrational petty sports arguments territory but I kind of don’t want him to win another title with someone else. It’d be like Shaq winning a title with the Heat.

I won’t be rooting against Brady but I won’t be rooting for him either. Will pretty much tune in out of curiosity to see what he has left. Now, if he’s playing a team I hate, then I’ll certainly root for him.

It’s basically the same way I felt about Pedro on the Mets/Phillies.
I just dont feel this way about Tom. Every SB he wins pushes him further past everyone for GOAT. Hes always going to be ours, so let's keep those SBs coming.