2020 Bucs: TB12 in TB20 - How Far Do They Go?

Assuming the 2020 season is actually played, how far do you think the TB12 led Bucs will go?

  • Win SB

  • Play in SB

  • Make it to the NFCCG

  • Make playoffs

  • Contend but no playoffs (~6-8 wins)

  • Blow chunks (<6 wins)


Results are only viewable after voting.

scottyno

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I lost my job on Monday due to this virus mayhem. But this feels like the bigger gut punch of the two.

BB’s ego got in the way of this. Brady should’ve been afforded the opportunity to retire a Patriot.

Belichick is going to be gone in 2 or 3 years. THE RUN WAS FUCKING ENDING IF NOT ALREADY OVER. Who gives a shit how BB leaves the franchise? I truly don’t. However lengthy a rebuild was going to be, shoving Brady unceremoniously out the door isn’t going to make me feel happy when the team is back to being good in 2023 instead of 2024.
he's getting 30m a year in tampa, there's no offer the pats could have made that wouldn't look like an insult in comparison to that
 

InstaFace

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Feels like this is the soundtrack to this whole episode:


(don't think it embeds, but there are no youtube videos of the original, just covers)

So Chris Godwin has made less than $2 million in his career.

I know he is going to want to get off on the right foot with his new quarterback. But it seems to me that if you have a player coming in who is going to take your number and that player's family net worth is probably 200 times yours and he has another umpteen millions in goodwill associated with trademarks and trade names that have your number in them . . .

Just saying that Godwin is in pretty good bargaining position.
I imagine the Buccaneers would sooner cut Godwin outright than risk losing Brady over some nonsense like a jersey number. His leverage probably doesn't go nearly as far as you think.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I imagine the Buccaneers would sooner cut Godwin outright than risk losing Brady over some nonsense like a jersey number. His leverage probably doesn't go nearly as far as you think.
It was tongue in cheek. I'm sure he'll get something nice from Brady like a watch or maybe even a car.

Though I'd note that Godwin may be one of the best players for value at the WR position in the entire league.
 

Soxy

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Sorry, I quoted you but I was mostly responding to Lazar's implication in the tweets that generated this discussion.
Lazar doesn't really say that either.

This isn't directed at you, but just in general: I think Brady and Belichick are both smart enough, and empathic enough (yes, even Belichick) to disagree on something, maybe even substantially so, without taking it personally. Familiarity can breed contempt, as the saying goes. I don't really think this is a truly bitter dispute, or anything like that, and I don't think Lazar means to imply that either.

If anything, I think both of them are like, "Let's see how green that grass is after all." Belichick gets to go back to square one and focus on teaching Stidham from the ground up. Brady gets to be the straw that stirs the drink in Tampa. In the end, this may be what both of them are really looking for right now.

It can't possibly be any greener than it has been, but it still could be a nice looking lawn for both. Journey, not the destination, etc.
 

InstaFace

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It was tongue in cheek. I'm sure he'll get something nice from Brady like a watch or maybe even a car.

Though I'd note that Godwin may be one of the best players for value at the WR position in the entire league.
Agreed all around.

Nobody is going to work harder this offseason than Evans and Godwin. They just went from having one of the worst passers in the league throwing them wounded ducks to having one of the all-time greats who could easily lead them to the playoffs. Not to mention a QB who prefers to put his passes low, specifically to protect his receivers from big hits.

Players around the league react to meeting Tom Brady as if they'd just been in the presence of a god. A number of them have never been aware of a time when Brady was not among the best QBs in the league - they may have been 5 years old in 2001. They gush when talking about it in press conferences after he's stomped them. For the entire Bucs roster this must be a "pinch me" moment not unlike what we felt when Kevin Garnett was traded here (for those who are Celtics fans). I'll choose to enjoy those thoughts, rather than think negative ones about Foxboro.
 

SoxinSeattle

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I lost my job on Monday due to this virus mayhem. But this feels like the bigger gut punch of the two.

BB’s ego got in the way of this. Brady should’ve been afforded the opportunity to retire a Patriot.

Belichick is going to be gone in 2 or 3 years. THE RUN WAS FUCKING ENDING IF NOT ALREADY OVER. Who gives a shit how BB leaves the franchise? I truly don’t. However lengthy a rebuild was going to be, shoving Brady unceremoniously out the door isn’t going to make me feel happy when the team is back to being good in 2023 instead of 2024.
It has long been said that it is very important to BB to leave the Pat's in a good place when he goes. Sorry about your job.
 

TripleOT

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Those kind of heavy hitter patrons is what it takes to get a January table at Berns Steak House if you don't have a reservation from earlier in the season.

Amazing old school steakhouse, with a million bottles of wine, and an upstairs dessert room with a dessert menu with more items than Brady and Jeter seasons combined. If you're ever in the Tampa and love restaurants, try it if you can get in. I got lucky once and got an early table off season and had a memorable meal.
 

Zososoxfan

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This makes a lot of sense. If there's a play for Brady in retirement to get a piece of this development, it could be potentially incredibly lucrative for him. Vinik's group is redeveloping over 50 (mostly contiguous) acres of downtown/waterfront property--down to the street grid and utilities. Brady would be an excellent face to help market the whole thing and have on the team. Hell, that group could buy the Rays from Sternberg and finally get them over to Tampa.
 

Zososoxfan

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Those kind of heavy hitter patrons is what it takes to get a January table at Berns Steak House if you don't have a reservation from earlier in the season.

Amazing old school steakhouse, with a million bottles of wine, and an upstairs dessert room with a dessert menu with more items than Brady and Jeter seasons combined. If you're ever in the Tampa and love restaurants, try it if you can get in. I got lucky once and got an early table off season and had a memorable meal.
Bern's is great. An institution for sure.

If you're ever traveling the area, Noble Rice is some of the best omakase I've ever had. Totally different vibe of course, but much harder to get a chair (TBF, there's only 6-8). Easily one of the best meals of my life.
 

Marciano490

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Those kind of heavy hitter patrons is what it takes to get a January table at Berns Steak House if you don't have a reservation from earlier in the season.

Amazing old school steakhouse, with a million bottles of wine, and an upstairs dessert room with a dessert menu with more items than Brady and Jeter seasons combined. If you're ever in the Tampa and love restaurants, try it if you can get in. I got lucky once and got an early table off season and had a memorable meal.
Well, if Jeter eats there I hope they do a thorough job washing forks and spoons.
 

Marciano490

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That’s cheap. If we’re going with Stidham, let’s at least give him one dude we know can get open and (usually) catch the ball.

Yeah, slightly bitter again about that drop.
 

queenb

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Love Tom but lol @ the thought of him having to wait 20+ months to get his revenge.

(EDIT: Since this season could be canceled -- not because the Bucs come to Foxboro in 2021. But that too.)
 
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Ed Hillel

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“It’s not about money, but respect and commitment.”

Translation - “It’s about the money.”

Belichick didn’t want to pay 75 mil guaranteed to a 43 year old declining QB when they couldn’t field a SB team anyway with cap limitations, someone else did, and there you have it. Kraft didn’t want to either btw. That’s why I love him, dude is straight business.
 

johnnywayback

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What do we think Brady orders at a steakhouse? Filet, trimmed of all visible fat, cooked in a dry pan with no salt, side of acai berries?
 

HowBoutDemSox

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This made me smile

Brady has five times as many playoff wins, six times as many Super Bowl wins and seven times as many 30-touchdown seasons as all the quarterbacks in Buccaneers history. He could lose his next 283 starts and still have a better career record than the Bucs franchise.
 

Don Buddin's GS

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I love the GEICO commercial where the raccoons steal a garbage truck. The two sanitation engineers are walking back to the truck and the one dude says “He’s a system quarterback” and they turn the corner to find their truck gone.

We all know who the QB in question was.

We are about to find out if this old knock by non-Pats fans on TB12 is actually true or not.
 

j44thor

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Good luck Tom going from the 5/9th best OL (P/R) to the 22/23rd

How much of that artificially high ranking is the result of TB getting rid of the ball quicker than just about any QB in the NFL. We can't simply paper over the Marshall Newhouse era. NE OL play was not to 10 last year. Brady is still elite with his release dramatically helping those adj. sack rate numbers.
 

sodenj5

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Brady tying himself to AB has already been and will continue to be a major mistake.
Brown has shown he’s much closer to being batshit crazy than a reliable teammate and all around good guy.
 

NomarsFool

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If Brady truly is tying himself to AB, he's not as smart as I thought he was.

It is one thing to feel sorry for AB, to provide him advice/encouragement, whatever.

It is completely another thing to lobby for your team to hire him, or even for this return to the NFL (although I would say I think the NFL is being a bit cowardly by not just giving AB whatever his punishment is)
 

bakahump

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Brady isnt a dumb guy. It wouldnt surprise me (IMHO make Believe reading the tea leaves...) That what Brady Truly wanted was to be starter until he left the game. One way to do that is play better then the other guy. Reasonable but dicey at 42+. Another way is to get paid enough money (over enough years) that it doesnt make sense to play someone else.

Obviously that wouldnt protect him if he fell off a cliff. But it Could have protected him if he was marginally not as good as the backup.

We know that BB 1. Would make a change for 1% of improvement. 2. Would NEVER agree to Not do that. 3. Would do his damnedest not to get in a cap situation that mandated having to do that.

Tom Feels Disrespected.
Money is not sufficient to make it a fait accompli
Years are limited.
TBay is desperate and offered to commit to TB without reservations until his retirement.

And here we are.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Bruce Arians has always been known for his aggressive, down field passing attack and it really feels like late vintage Tom is a square peg in a round hole here. His deep balls last year were pitiful. I really think he's going to sap a guy like Evans' value.
 

E5 Yaz

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Bruce Arians has always been known for his aggressive, down field passing attack and it really feels like late vintage Tom is a square peg in a round hole here. His deep balls last year were pitiful. I really think he's going to sap a guy like Evans' value.
That assumes Evans is limited to be a deep threat receiver. Having seen a few Bucs games, I don't think that's the case
 

CoffeeNerdness

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That is however a massive part of his overall package that will be limited by Brady not being able to connect with him on deep balls.
 

E5 Yaz

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That is however a massive part of his overall package that will be limited by Brady not being able to connect with him on deep balls.
You honestly think Arians and his offensive staff are too dumb to adjust their game plan to take advantage of the quarterback they just signed?
 

Ed Hillel

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Bruce Arians has always been known for his aggressive, down field passing attack and it really feels like late vintage Tom is a square peg in a round hole here. His deep balls last year were pitiful. I really think he's going to sap a guy like Evans' value.
I mean who was Brady throwing to?
 

heavyde050

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Bruce Arians has always been known for his aggressive, down field passing attack and it really feels like late vintage Tom is a square peg in a round hole here. His deep balls last year were pitiful. I really think he's going to sap a guy like Evans' value.
Brady isn't the best downfield passer by any means, but any discussion of his performance probably should acknowledge his awful weapons. It was mostly due to injuries, retirements, and other factors, but I doubt any QB (except maybe Mahomes) does that much better with the Pats last year.
With weapons, I fully expect Brady to be at least average with the deep ball.
There are QBs with less than super strong arms have great YPA because of the players around them and scheme.
 

E5 Yaz

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Brady will be running his offense in Tampa. Not sure how people don't realize this. Arians will be giving the keys to the car to Brady.
On top of which, a mediocre at best offensive line gets starts to look better with a QB that doesn't hold onto the ball 4-5 seconds on each drop
 

Cotillion

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And also tennis elbow. He developed it over the year or that was the excuse that came out.

This will play role in his ability to throw down field with accuracy.
 

E5 Yaz

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I mean Evans highlight reel is literally 90% deep balls.
Career Yards/Reception average is 15.7. Considering the amount of that which is YAC, then the notion that all he can do is run deep is seriously flawed
 

Kliq

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I have very little concern that Brady won't be able to float the ball up to Evans. Evans is a deep ball guy because he is an enormous receiver who can win contested balls in the air, not because he is a Cooks-level speedster that needs a laser thrown past the secondary.
 

E5 Yaz

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What's flawed is the assumption that I'm saying all he can do is run deep routes.
You said Brady will "sap Evans value" because of the lack of deep throws and that 90% of his highlights are deep throws.

Maybe you should consider that Evans value won't be sapped by a more diverse game plan, that doesn't require him running deep so often
 

KiltedFool

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Arians has always been a fan of the deep ball, he was part of the reason Roethlisberger held onto the ball so long and got battered pretty thoroughly in his early years. Ben shares blame for some of that back then too, but Arians' tendencies ran that way back then. Upgrades on the line and revising the offense to get the ball in the hands of a YAC machine like AB slowly won Ben over and contributed to him buying in and taking much less abuse for years.

Arians also was OC when AB was drafted in 2010 and forced out after 2011. There were accusations they were too buddy buddy and tailored the offense to what Ben and Arians liked more than what was best for effectiveness and health. Fichtner was made OC and got Ben to believe in getting the ball out quicker, in part because AB had also started to come into his own.

if AB wasn't a complete whack job I could see Arians trying to get Brady a woobie and it working out. But if AB wasn't a whack job he'd be on another team right now.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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You said Brady will "sap Evans value" because of the lack of deep throws and that 90% of his highlights are deep throws.

Maybe you should consider that Evans value won't be sapped by a more diverse game plan, that doesn't require him running deep so often
I'm not really sure what the second sentence even means in a practical sense (the amazing deep ball receiving threat is gonna start running possession routes and mitigate the loss of his deep ball value by relying on YAC??? Seems sorta sub-optimal but hey maybe he'll catch double digit TDs) , and I'm not gonna go in circles in a dumb internet argument, but I'll happily put $20 on Mike Evans having one of his worst seasons with Brady at QB.
 

E5 Yaz

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I'm not really sure what the second sentence even means in a practical sense (the amazing deep ball receiving threat is gonna start running possession routes and mitigate the loss of his deep ball value by relying on YAC??? Seems sorta sub-optimal but hey maybe he'll catch double digit TDs) , and I'm not gonna go in circles in a dumb internet argument, but I'll happily put $20 on Mike Evans having one of his worst seasons with Brady at QB.
Again, he has averaged 15.7 per catch for his career. That's a strong number, but it's not a guy whose game is only deep balls ... regardless if 90% of a random highlight film convince you otherwise.

That you think that he can't adjust to playing with Brady, to the point of leading to one of his worst seasons, or that the offensive scheme, and Evans route tree -- as RedOctober pointed out -- isn't going to change with Brady at QB ... well, there's apparently not much anyone can do but wait and see what plays out.
 

Zincman

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I'm with Joe Dokes. The most overused and meaningless word used in the athletic world is "respect". It becomes the cover for words that more accurately describe any situation in which people's feelings and interests are involved. Reporters like Gasper and others who reduce this issue to a "matter of respect" either haven't taken the time, don't have enough accurate inside information, or are just incapable of analyzing this without some cliched response. The nuances of this contratemp are probably more complicated than we know, and it is likely that the motivations of all parties are likely more complex than we know. It is probably easier for us to cast BB as a cold-hearted villain, TB as a selfless hero who gave his all for us without asking for anything in return, and Robert Kraft as a kindly old grandfather who plays only an ancillary role in this drama. But its likely more complex than that with many disguised motives on all parts, with almost none of it having to do with "respect".
 

Kliq

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Tom Brady AY/A last season: 6.8

Jameis Winston AY/A last season: 7.1
 

Mooch

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That assumes Evans is limited to be a deep threat receiver. Having seen a few Bucs games, I don't think that's the case
Average target distance in 2019: 15.9 yards (4th among all WR).

He's a downfield target in every sense of the word.