2020-2021 NBA Game Thread

terrynever

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Sorry about that. I really thought that the Eagles were going to win the Super Bowl that year. Jaworski throwing an INT just over a minute in that was quickly turned into a TD for the Raiders followed by Plunkett’s 80 yard TD several minutes later and the game was basically over before the first quarter ended.
It was over to my crowd, in retrospect, right before the National Anthem when the TV camera flashed on a very quiet Ron Jaworski. Saw the same thing with Tony Eason six years later.
 

Jimbodandy

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Len Bias. What might have been. I think we all lost on his death, not just Celtics fans. Bias vs. Barkley, still in his prime.
Word.

He's one of like a dozen people where I still know exactly where I was when I heard.

On a ladder on Summer Street, Somerville, ripping shingles off a 2-family. Whole job site shut down for a half hour.
 

Cesar Crespo

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What kind of package would Washington get for Bradley Beal anyway? Especially where he is already signed for 4 more years?

I was thinking Denver should be all in on Beal but they'd probably have to offer Murray. Maybe the 76ers would put up Simmons. Would the Kings put up Heild, Bagley and Haliburton? They could then easily make room in the offseason to sign a max player. Dunno if that's something they'd want to do or if Washington would. The Wolves are terrible this year too but KAT has missed a lot of games. A KAT/Beal tandem going forward would be something. D'Angelo Russell and Edwards?

Beal can't really direct where he is going to be traded, can he? I guess he could sit for 4 years. I think it would be incredibly interesting if another terrible team with a top player made a move for someone like Beal and if Beal would be cool with it.

Most of the time when these big name players get traded, they don't have many years left on their contract. One would think that would improve Washington's return by a bit.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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If Beal goes on the market, logic dictates that the competition for him will be fierce. His elite shot creation fits everyone from close contenders to teams on the come-up. As proposed by Tjarks, the Warriors can offer Wiseman plus the Minnesota pick. But pretty much everyone should check in on him. The price seems like it will be very high and in looking across the NBA landscape, he could really wind up anywhere with a few exceptions.
 

HomeRunBaker

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What kind of package would Washington get for Bradley Beal anyway? Especially where he is already signed for 4 more years?

I was thinking Denver should be all in on Beal but they'd probably have to offer Murray. Maybe the 76ers would put up Simmons. Would the Kings put up Heild, Bagley and Haliburton? They could then easily make room in the offseason to sign a max player. Dunno if that's something they'd want to do or if Washington would. The Wolves are terrible this year too but KAT has missed a lot of games. A KAT/Beal tandem going forward would be something. D'Angelo Russell and Edwards?

Beal can't really direct where he is going to be traded, can he? I guess he could sit for 4 years. I think it would be incredibly interesting if another terrible team with a top player made a move for someone like Beal and if Beal would be cool with it.

Most of the time when these big name players get traded, they don't have many years left on their contract. One would think that would improve Washington's return by a bit.
Isn’t having Beal’s prime years locked up for 4 years a benefit to the acquiring team? I’d guess his market would be enormous.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Beal to Atlanta for a package centered around Collins and Gallinari as salary ballast makes far too much sense to ever happen.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I thought Beal's extension with Washington had an opt out after next season.
Apparently it's not even an opt out, it's just an option for that season. That is odd. I saw extension and just assumed it would be for 4 years. It's 1 year + 1 year player option. That changes things a lot.



edit: It's especially weird since it lines up so nicely with Kemba''s contract. All those Tatum and Beal are bff rumors. It's almost like it's preordained.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Beal to Atlanta for a package centered around Collins and Gallinari as salary ballast makes far too much sense to ever happen.
Knowing what I was just now made aware of this makes a ton of sense for Atlanta this summer in a S-n-T to have Beal for one-year or half a year to move at the deadline for assets if Collins agrees to the deal with the Wizards. Throwing in a nice juicy trade kicker would surely entice him.
 

Bread of Yaz

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Bias would have been a worthy rival of MJ
It was a huge blow to the franchise, but OTOH let's not get carried away. Bias was a great physical specimen, had a great inside game, and was a strong rebounder but I don't recall him being much of an outside shooter or having a particularly strong handle. And in those years the ACC was not at its apogee in terms of quality; that would come later.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Knowing what I was just now made aware of this makes a ton of sense for Atlanta this summer in a S-n-T to have Beal for one-year or half a year to move at the deadline for assets if Collins agrees to the deal with the Wizards. Throwing in a nice juicy trade kicker would surely entice him.
And if he liked it there, Atlanta would be in a position to keep him. I'd rather give that money to Beal than Collins. I like Collins but I'm more on your side that he's going to put up big numbers on bad teams, aka Washington. He'll also only be 27 when his contract is up. That's when he'll probably want to play for a winner and take less money. I think you predicted it for him, I know you did for Lauri. I see that path for both.

Beal I could see sticking in Atlanta if things go right. They have a lot of good, young players and if any of them take a leap, look out. I think they need to consolidate some of their talent though. Beal and Young would be impossible to defend.
 

Jimbodandy

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It was a huge blow to the franchise, but OTOH let's not get carried away. Bias was a great physical specimen, had a great inside game, and was a strong rebounder but I don't recall him being much of an outside shooter or having a particularly strong handle. And in those years the ACC was not at its apogee in terms of quality; that would come later.
He shot 80% from the line. I'm too lazy to research advanced stats on 1980s college players, but not a lot of bad shooters shooting 80% from the line.

The guy played against a shitload of HOFs in his ACC career. The top 3 picks in that draft were ACC, among others.
 

TripleOT

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It was a huge blow to the franchise, but OTOH let's not get carried away. Bias was a great physical specimen, had a great inside game, and was a strong rebounder but I don't recall him being much of an outside shooter or having a particularly strong handle. And in those years the ACC was not at its apogee in terms of quality; that would come later.
IDK if you are old enough to have watched Bias, but he developed into a solid perimeter shooter, after not being much of a shooter his freshman year.

By his last year in college, he was as good as shooter as MJ, and a slightly better FT shooter.
 

terrynever

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IDK if you are old enough to have watched Bias, but he developed into a solid perimeter shooter, after not being much of a shooter his freshman year.

By his last year in college, he was as good as shooter as MJ, and a slightly better FT shooter.
The difference between MJ and Bias was their college programs and coaches. Dean Smith ran a tight ship. Lefty Driesell didn’t, and that set the stage for Lenny’s crazy reaction to the draft.
 

terrynever

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No Simmons tonight for Philly. Food poisoning. What a relief! Thybulle in the lineup, creating havoc. 27-18 with three minutes left in first quarter.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It was a huge blow to the franchise, but OTOH let's not get carried away. Bias was a great physical specimen, had a great inside game, and was a strong rebounder but I don't recall him being much of an outside shooter or having a particularly strong handle. And in those years the ACC was not at its apogee in terms of quality; that would come later.
Bias has just began to extend his range toward the end of his college career. He had a beautiful and deadly 15-17 foot jumper by the time he left Maryland. Excellent mechanics, rotation and soft touch.
 

reggiecleveland

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Bias has just began to extend his range toward the end of his college career. He had a beautiful and deadly 15-17 foot jumper by the time he left Maryland. Excellent mechanics, rotation and soft touch.
He was really fucking good. He had a chance to be HOF player. Great defender for that era too. This was the James Worthy draft pick that gave the Lakers another HOFer to finish the 80s with. It was a great front office job by Red and maybe Cs hold off Bad Boys until expansion.
 

Bread of Yaz

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IDK if you are old enough to have watched Bias, but he developed into a solid perimeter shooter, after not being much of a shooter his freshman year.

By his last year in college, he was as good as shooter as MJ, and a slightly better FT shooter.
Yes, I went to Georgetown at this time, saw him live at Cole several times, not just TV. His upside was Dominque. Not Michael.
 

reggiecleveland

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Yes, I went to Georgetown at this time, saw him live at Cole several times, not just TV. His upside was Dominque. Not Michael.
Much more of a power guy than Nique. He could have backed up both Bird and McHale iin 87. Is his game progresses maybe he takes time from Ainge. He had the mid post game, etc like Jordan. So much of the "MJ" talk is based on his personality, drive, being like Michael. Michael's upside wasn't Michael either.
Crazy thing now is that guy worth a 100 million (to the Cs and a shoe company) was left partying on campus on draft night. today an agent, his team trainer, shoe company publicist would have it mapped out.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Portland vs NO is a fun game. Lonzo continues to play well and is currently 7/13, 5/9, 2/2 with 21 points and 5 assists. NO is going to keep him.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Williamson is up to 72% from the line this year, 150/209. He was at 64% last year, 114/178.

Also 6/16 from 3 this year in 27 games. Not a huge deal but for his career he's now 12/30, .400 in 50 games. In a universe where he does become a league average FT shooter and 3 point shooter, how do you even hope to guard the guy? The FT improvement is definitely real, 209 is a sample size from the FT line. 30 3 pointers, definitely not.

This is a guy who will end up getting to the line 10+ times a game at his peak so if he's closer to an 80% FT shooter during that time rather than a 64% shooter, that's huge. He doesn't even turn 21 until July either. It's not that uncommon for players that young to make big improvements in FT shooting either.
 

Kliq

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Williamson is up to 72% from the line this year, 150/209. He was at 64% last year, 114/178.

Also 6/16 from 3 this year in 27 games. Not a huge deal but for his career he's now 12/30, .400 in 50 games. In a universe where he does become a league average FT shooter and 3 point shooter, how do you even hope to guard the guy? The FT improvement is definitely real, 209 is a sample size from the FT line. 30 3 pointers, definitely not.

This is a guy who will end up getting to the line 10+ times a game at his peak so if he's closer to an 80% FT shooter during that time rather than a 64% shooter, that's huge. He doesn't even turn 21 until July either. It's not that uncommon for players that young to make big improvements in FT shooting either.
The question with Zion has always been health and conditioning. He is averaging 24 ppg and shooting a scoring hot 61% from the floor and makes it look easy.

That being said, when I watch him he feels kind of...passive. Part of that I think is sharing the court with a heavy ISO guy like Ingram, but it feels like he is basically unstoppable when he looks for his shot, be he doesn't always get the touches. His defense is also very questionable; he was either going to be a very good defender or a poor one, and right now it looks like he is the latter. It's still early though.

His rebounding is also very strange. He is only averaging 6.8 rpg. I think most people figured he would get 10+ rpg easy.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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All-Star starters announced.

East: Durant (captain), Giannis, Embiid for frontcourt, Beal and Kyrie for backcourt.

West: LeBron (captain), Kawhi, Jokic for frontcourt, Luka and Steph for backcourt.
 

jhp64

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All-Star starters announced.

East: Durant (captain), Giannis, Embiid for frontcourt, Beal and Kyrie for backcourt.

West: LeBron (captain), Kawhi, Jokic for frontcourt, Luka and Steph for backcourt.
Indeed, according to the Athletic:
38949
 

Sam Ray Not

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Gotta feel for Dame Lillard: never misses a freaking game, even on B2Bs, is averaging 30 pts / 8 ast on .625 true shooting, wins seemingly every other game with incredibly clutch shots, and has somehow dragged his decimated team to 18-10 and 4th in the West... and still can’t get a starting nod, while shirking primadonna / third best player on his team Kyrie does.

I’d put Dame pretty much tied with Steph, and slightly ahead of Luka, who’s putting up great numbers for a #10 seed.

But this is just fan voting, right?
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Gotta feel for Dame Lillard: never misses a freaking game, even on B2Bs, is averaging 30 pts / 8 ast on .625 true shooting, wins seemingly every other game with incredibly clutch shots, and has somehow dragged his decimated team to 18-10 and 4th in the West... and still can’t get a starting nod, while shirking primadonna / third best player on his team Kyrie does.

I’d put Dame pretty much tied with Steph, and slightly ahead of Luka, who’s putting up great numbers for a #10 seed.

But this is just fan voting, right?
Nope, fan voting is 50% (rest is player and coach voting) and also the tiebreaker, which is how Luka snuck past Dame:
Fans accounted for 50 percent of the vote to determine the NBA All-Star Game starters, while current NBA players and a media panel accounted for 25 percent each. James (5,922,554 fan votes) and Durant (5,567,106 fan votes) led their respective conferences and position groups in fan voting. Curry (5,481,033 fan votes) and Beal (3,485,051 fan votes) also led their respective position groups in fan voting.

After all votes were tallied, players were ranked in each conference by position (guard and frontcourt) within each of the three voting groups – fan votes, player votes and media votes. Each player’s score was calculated by averaging his weighted rank from the fan votes, the player votes and the media votes. The two guards and three frontcourt players with the best score in each conference were named NBA All-Star Game starters.

Fan votes served as the tiebreaker for players in a position group with the same score. Dončić won the tiebreaker with the Portland Trail Blazers’ Damian Lillard for the second starting spot in the Western Conference guard group.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Luka
Dame
Steph
I mean, RPM is not the be all, but...

Doncic +1.89 (#56 in the league)
Lillard +5.54 (#5)
Curry +8.01 (#2)

Two of those guys have dragged their poor-to-mediocre teams to surprising playoff seeds by force of will, insane efficiency, and incredible leadership skills. The other is the talented best player on a disappointing #10 seed who still has a ways go a leader of men and an efficient player. Luka’s gonna pass them both soon enough, but I’m not seeing it right now.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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So LeBron really hasn’t won an MVP in 8 years? This is the most ming boggling things I’ve heard all day today and I’ve been listening to people praise Limbaugh!
 

Ale Xander

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I mean, RPM is not the be all, but...

Doncic +1.89 (#56 in the league)
Lillard +5.54 (#5)
Curry +8.01 (#2)

Two of those guys have dragged their poor-to-mediocre teams to surprising playoff seeds by force of will, insane efficiency, and incredible leadership skills. The other is the talented best player on a disappointing #10 seed who still has a ways go a leader of men and an efficient player. Luka’s gonna pass them both soon enough, but I’m not seeing it right now.
I'm talking about my fan vote, not who's better on wood or paper. Luka has a more rounded game, and there was a sort of je ne sais quoi quality he had with Klay that's now gone.

Anyways, how can you take any measure seriously when the reigning DMVP gets a negative rating? And overall, CJ MCollom 3rd? Conley 7th? Paul George 4th? Devonta Graham ahead of Durant? Divincenzo and Terry Rozier ahead of Beal and Tatum? Cmon man.
 
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ElUno20

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The stat padding lebron has done tonight is legendary. Put it on a tape. This game has long been over
 

HowBoutDemSox

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The four teams that made the Eastern semis last year all look decidedly worse this year. The Bucks have lost five in a row to drop to 16-13, compared to 25-4 at the same point last year. The Celtics and Raptors are both struggling to stay above .500, and the Heat are limping along at 12-17.
 

lovegtm

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The four teams that made the Eastern semis last year all look decidedly worse this year. The Bucks have lost five in a row to drop to 16-13, compared to 25-4 at the same point last year. The Celtics and Raptors are both struggling to stay above .500, and the Heat are limping along at 12-17.
All of their coaches and front offices should be fired!

In all seriousness though, the short offseason is very clearly affecting these teams, and complicates evaluation of where they're at.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Year in and year out, Lillard continues to be under appreciated and overly under rated. Usually a player like this becomes such a novelty that everyone then OVER rates him......not Dame Dolla though. He’s legit legit.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This piece from Tjarks at the Ringer examines the limitations of the Blazers relying on Lillard but its also pretty illustrative of how good Dame is. "Clutch" stats are really subjective but I thought this was interesting:

The Blazers are rarely ever out of a game, because their best player can always get a matchup against the opposing team’s worst perimeter defender whenever he wants. It would be like if a baseball team could send their best hitter to the plate for every at-bat and he could always hit a line drive at the worst fielder on the opposing team. Lillard has found a glitch in the game. He reverses the normal way we think about basketball because the game becomes easier for him in crunch time. His numbers in those situations this season don’t even make sense: He has scored 82 points on 63.2 percent shooting and is plus-43 in 57 “clutch” minutes. He’s getting rid of the other stuff the Blazers do and punching in his cheat code on every possession.
 

slamminsammya

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The question with Zion has always been health and conditioning. He is averaging 24 ppg and shooting a scoring hot 61% from the floor and makes it look easy.

That being said, when I watch him he feels kind of...passive. Part of that I think is sharing the court with a heavy ISO guy like Ingram, but it feels like he is basically unstoppable when he looks for his shot, be he doesn't always get the touches. His defense is also very questionable; he was either going to be a very good defender or a poor one, and right now it looks like he is the latter. It's still early though.

His rebounding is also very strange. He is only averaging 6.8 rpg. I think most people figured he would get 10+ rpg easy.
I wouldn't worry about his rebounding. The Pelicans are top 5 in rebounding and have Steven Adams and Josh Hart who are good rebounders.