2019 WS - Nationals vs. Astros - Gamethread

Ale Xander

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So in the 3 games following Taubman's dismissal, all road games, they have outscored the Nats, 19-3.
 

BigPapiLumber Co.

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This is delicious, thanks. But I do have less respect for the Nats with the "Wave Your Caps" crap. Are the Sox among few teams nowadays who don't instruct their fans on how to behave?
I live in DC, and was at tonight's game. (I always decline to wave my cap for that song - which they play every game in the 4th or 5th inning - just because the song is so god-awful. Anyway, I went to Boston this summer for the time since the Manny-K-Rod game in '07, to introduce my 6 year old daughter to Fenway. And the of course I love the park visually, but the most obvious difference after attending 10+ games a season at Nats Park was the silence of the speakers. No imploring us to cheer, as if we don't know when to do so. No between pitches music. Just a peaceful night at the ballpark with moments of loud excitement. It became that much more intrusive and painful to my ears returning to Nats Park.
 

sean1562

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I know max physically couldn’t throw a pitch but that’s gonna become a huge narrative if there is no game seven. Or if there is one and he can’t start it
 

trekfan55

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Even if we want to compare, in 2004 the Sox came back against the best closer in the history of the game to tie Games 4 and 5 and caught a bunch of luchy breaks. Then survived Game 6 with Keith Foulke on fumes (just typing this and remebering the Tony Clark AB made my blood pressure rise). Then they kicked butt in Game 7.

The Astros have outscored the Nats by like 19-3. The Nats never led, and the fans were basucally taken out of the game.

Btw, very good reporting and interviews on MLBN. I enjoyed Jordan Alvarez with Pedro doing the translation. i have always been amazed by his correct English.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
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It will (rightfully so) be a massive regret of his for the rest of his life.
It’s gotta depend on the story, right? If it’s a condition or beyond his control then it’s easier to stomach. If he just kept using a shitty pillow or wasn’t stretching properly then it’s pretty absurd.
 

sean1562

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Well now it is do or die for stras and then max again. Verlander and grienke on the other side, hopefully we get at least one good game out of it
 

jon abbey

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Scherzer got a cortisone shot today, not sure how much he can do just three days later, if it even gets there obv.
 

Marciano490

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I was going to just snicker, but I see you typed WS, not LCS, so, not this extreme as I can recall, of course the '96 MFY did the same in the W-L column, but Atlanta didn't just bend over and lube up like this.
I’m confused by your metaphor. Isn’t losing the WS a bad thing?
 

jose melendez

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If you'd told me at the beginning that this is the position the Nats would find themselves in, down 3-2 going back to Houston with Strass-Verlander pending and Corbin, or maybe even Scherzer, posied for Game 7 against Greinke, I'd have taken it. I'd have regarded them as heavy underdogs, but I'd have taken it.

Of course, because they had a 2-0 lead, and they've been absolutely thrashed three straight in their own yard, it's really, really hard to feel good about it. Still, they absolutely have a chance. I also think they probably benefit more from the DH. Because their bullpen is so bad, they really haven't had the ability to pinch hit early--this helps that.

I give them maybe 25% to win it all.
 

Brianish

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Dec 11, 2008
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So I see now that the Nationals goal was not to defeat their reputation for folding in the postseason, but to reach the biggest stage possible and then fold, in order to cement that reputation for all time.
 

dcmissle

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They Nats not folding; the Astros are probably better and working their will. They have stone cold killers up and down that lineup. They have a force of nature and unbelievable leadership in Altuve. Remember, the Yankees had shut down Bregman and a couple other hitters, and the Astros still strangled the life out of the Yankees. When these guys turned it around, it figures to be a major problem. Especially when you have zero middle relief.

People here are shellshocked this morning. They did not give the Astros the proper respect. Not out of malevolence, out of ignorance is all.
 

InsideTheParker

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Tonight's strike zone is Exhibit A for robots-umps for ball/strikes. It's making a farce of the game.
On mlbn tonight, which I think is repeated all day long, Pedro Martinez seems to be claiming that Cole deserves the calls because he is pitching his own consistent zone! It seems to be the Great Men Deserve What They Get theory and is infuriating. I wish someone else who sees this can tell me if my tiredness is making me misunderstand what he's saying.
 

BoSox Rule

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On mlbn tonight, which I think is repeated all day long, Pedro Martinez seems to be claiming that Cole deserves the calls because he is pitching his own consistent zone! It seems to be the Great Men Deserve What They Get theory and is infuriating. I wish someone else who sees this can tell me if my tiredness is making me misunderstand what he's saying.
I’ll admit to not seeing this segment before I give my opinion, but I feel like I’ve heard pitchers, especially smart ones like Pedro, make the point before: you pitch to the zone the ump is calling. If Cole recognizes that the ump is calling that pitch an inch or two up or an inch or two outside and you have the command to attack that zone the smart pitcher is going to do that.
 

donutogre

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I’ll admit to not seeing this segment before I give my opinion, but I feel like I’ve heard pitchers, especially smart ones like Pedro, make the point before: you pitch to the zone the ump is calling. If Cole recognizes that the ump is calling that pitch an inch or two up or an inch or two outside and you have the command to attack that zone the smart pitcher is going to do that.
Absolutely, but when the ump doesn't call the same zone for both teams, it's about as frustrating as it gets.
 

Brianish

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They Nats not folding; the Astros are probably better and working their will. They have stone cold killers up and down that lineup. They have a force of nature and unbelievable leadership in Altuve. Remember, the Yankees had shut down Bregman and a couple other hitters, and the Astros still strangled the life out of the Yankees. When these guys turned it around, it figures to be a major problem. Especially when you have zero middle relief.

People here are shellshocked this morning. They did not give the Astros the proper respect. Not out of malevolence, out of ignorance is all.
This is almost certainly the truth, but narratively it's hard not to look at the stark difference between games 1 and 2 and 3 through 5 and think the Nats turned into pumpkins. They were extreme underdogs from the get-go, but my suspicion is that won't be the story people remember, particularly given their pre-existing reputation.
 

loshjott

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If you'd told me at the beginning that this is the position the Nats would find themselves in, down 3-2 going back to Houston with Strass-Verlander pending and Corbin, or maybe even Scherzer, posied for Game 7 against Greinke, I'd have taken it. I'd have regarded them as heavy underdogs, but I'd have taken it.

Of course, because they had a 2-0 lead, and they've been absolutely thrashed three straight in their own yard, it's really, really hard to feel good about it. Still, they absolutely have a chance. I also think they probably benefit more from the DH. Because their bullpen is so bad, they really haven't had the ability to pinch hit early--this helps that.

I give them maybe 25% to win it all.
This is my take as well. If it had been a split in HOU then losing 2 of 3 at home things would feel different. But of course that's not what happened.

Unless this series ends with a Drew Storen like moment for the Nats, I suspect the narrative won't be choking as much as both teams regressing to the mean two games too early.
 

canderson

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Did anyone see video of the two females sitting to the right of home plate a few rows up flashing Cole? I just caught this today and was curious if they were removed and can't find an answer.

Never seen that midgame before and was shocked it happened.
 

Awesome Fossum

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Narratives are just that. The narrative three days ago was that the Nationals were a team of destiny.

I like their chances in Game 6 with Strasburg and, to be honest, away from all the nervous energy in DC. Game 7, not so much. But one game at a time.
 

jaytftwofive

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Jan 20, 2013
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@ the year before 86 in 85 the Royals lost their first two games at home and fell behind 3 games to 1 but came back and won. That was the series with the infamous blown safe/out call at first base by Don Denkinger.
 

Ale Xander

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Oct 31, 2013
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Ale Xander

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Ale Xander

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Yeah, what an idiotic idea that you could do that and not get in trouble. Public nudity isn't allowed, especially in a MLB park.
Public toplessness, even for females, is allowed in several very public places, including NYC. (One of) the probems here was they were doing it in a privately-owned place that was broadcasted to millions of people and that MLB/Nats didn;t profit off it.

The banning is going to promote these ladies much more than if it was quietly forgotten.
 

crow216

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Jul 15, 2005
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I'm sure they knew the risks. They did it anyway.

Are ballpark bans even real? How the hell is anyone going to identify me? Credit card terminal?
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Ridiculous, he couldn't even turn his head when speaking to the media yesterday.
You don't understand: the World Series is supposed to cure all ills and anyone who can't answer the bell had better be dead or he is just soft. Scherer just didn't want it enough because he hates the game and the fans.

On the plus side, we now know Jim Murray's SoSH handle.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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Jul 18, 2005
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I’ll admit to not seeing this segment before I give my opinion, but I feel like I’ve heard pitchers, especially smart ones like Pedro, make the point before: you pitch to the zone the ump is calling. If Cole recognizes that the ump is calling that pitch an inch or two up or an inch or two outside and you have the command to attack that zone the smart pitcher is going to do that.
Absolutely, but when the ump doesn't call the same zone for both teams, it's about as frustrating as it gets.
It seemed to me that Cole was getting these calls (balls just off the plate being called strikes) all night, while Ross was not, so maybe there is some sort of pitcher caste system or preference/bias for "consistency." The pitch to Correa before the HR may or may not have been in the strike zone, but it was a call that Cole was getting all night. And above all, the strike zone has to be consistent for both teams. If it is't, it jeopardizes the integrity of the game.

Losing three games at home by a cumulative score of 19-3 is certainly demoralizing, and would seem to be a beatdown. But 1-21 with RISP certainly has a lot to do with that, and would seem to indicate some bad BABIP luck. With Strasburg on the mound in Game 6, the Nats certainly have a chance to win that game, and if it goes to Game 7 anything can happen. I think the Astros are probably the better team, and should have been favored going in, but not by much. They have the advantage with the final two games at home, but that hasn't really been a factor so far in this series. And the Taubman nonsense certainly makes it easy (easier?) to root against Houston.
 

donutogre

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Yeah, don't get me wrong, the ridiculous strike zone Cole was getting is semi-related to the hideous Nationals offense... but far, far more blame goes on the Nationals for putting up 3 runs in 3 games. Obviously credit to the Houston pitchers, as well. But that sure doesn't stop me from wishing for a more consistent strike zone.
 

54thMA

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Maybe the Nationals were tight playing in front of their home crowd, they sure were pretty loose in games one and two, or maybe the Astros buckled down after being down 0-2 and took their game to another level and now they will be the ones who are tight in front of their home crowd.

I have no dog in this fight, so I am rooting for a game seven for all the marbles.
 

Al Zarilla

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Maybe the Nationals were tight playing in front of their home crowd, they sure were pretty loose in games one and two, or maybe the Astros buckled down after being down 0-2 and took their game to another level and now they will be the ones who are tight in front of their home crowd.

I have no dog in this fight, so I am rooting for a game seven for all the marbles.
If professional baseball players get uptight playing in front of their home crowd, I don’t know what to say. Oh, on Monday night football pregame, they have a bit called “C’mon, Man!”
 

54thMA

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If professional baseball players get uptight playing in front of their home crowd, I don’t know what to say. Oh, on Monday night football pregame, they have a bit called “C’mon, Man!”
They were on a roll in Houston, then they scored three runs in three games at home.

It's a mystery to me, looking for answers is all, they're running out of time.
 

jon abbey

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I don't think this gets to a game 7, but it would be great theater if it did, as Scherzer just threw in the outfield and told reporters "I'm good" afterwards.