2019 Trade Deadline

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Murderer's Crow

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Something I should have made clear in the post that you quoted is that I was assuming Wheeler would be traded with all of the interest that has been reported and the idea of Syndegard being moved would leave two holes in their staff. Vargas has been a very pleasant surprise lately, bit if Wheeler and Syndegard both go (big if) who do you see stepping in? Genuinely curious what there is behind deGrom, Vargas and Matz who has not been overly impressive. Perhaps Lugo gets another shot in the rotation?
I think they can worry about rotation depth when they have a real contender. I think Syndergaard is at a crossroads. If they wait another year and he stinks, they'll get nothing for him. Vargas is 36. They should be dealing from their strength.
 

jon abbey

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IMO the Mets don't have the balls to trade Syndergaard, but they do have Anthony Kay waiting in the minors, a lefty who was their 1st round pick in 2016 who is 24 and absolutely dominated AA this year (1.49 ERA in 66 innings). He has struggled so far in AAA and the Mets have a bad situation to break in new pitchers with their horrible team defense, but he could fill in one spot at least. I do think they'll at least deal Wheeler and call up Kay, maybe Vargas too but not Syndergaard or Matz.
 

nvalvo

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IMO the Mets don't have the balls to trade Syndergaard, but they do have Anthony Kay waiting in the minors, a lefty who was their 1st round pick in 2016 who is 24 and absolutely dominated AA this year (1.49 ERA in 66 innings). He has struggled so far in AAA and the Mets have a bad situation to break in new pitchers with their horrible team defense, but he could fill in one spot at least. I do think they'll at least deal Wheeler and call up Kay, maybe Vargas too but not Syndergaard or Matz.
It is astonishing to step back and look at how well the Mets have done at developing starting pitching, the rarest commodity in the game, over the dozen years or so, and how mediocre they still are.

I mean, not all of these guys are great, but this run represents really impressive work by their player development people:

Mike Pelfrey (2006 debut; 12 year career)
Jon Niese (2008 debut; 9 year career)
Dillon Gee (2010 debut; 8 year career)
Matt Harvey (2012 debut; 7 seasons so far)
Zack Wheeler (2013 debut; 5 seasons so far)
Jacob deGrom (2014 debut; 6 seasons so far)
Noah Syndergaard (2015 debut; 5 seasons so far)
Steven Matz (2015 debut; 5 seasons so far)
Robert Gsellman (2016 debut; 4 seasons so far)
Seth Lugo (2016 debut; 4 seasons so far)

It really does feel as though with replacement level ownership and management (and a bit better health from Wheeler and Harvey), they should have reached more than one World Series or had a season better than 90 wins at some point over this span, especially considering that the division they're in has not been reliably strong.
 

VORP Speed

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Rays trade Nick Solak to the Rangers for righty reliever Peter Fairbanks. Fairbanks being sent to AAA.

From Topkin: Fairbanks made 8 relief appearances for #Rangers this season, 0-2, 9.35 ERA with 15 Ks in 8.2 innings. Is 25 and has had 2 Tommy John surgeries. Solak, acquired from #Yankees in spring 2018, would have had to go on 40-man roster this winter
 

DeadlySplitter

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Tyrone Biggums

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JD Porcello Cashner (lol) JBJ Holt and Barnes should all be on the block for prospects.

This team is going nowhere this year.
 

sean1562

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None of those players would get you anything interesting. Maybe JBJ, but which playoff contender would want him? Barnes would be pretty far down on most contenders lists, unless they got him for very little. Porcello we would have to give away, basically just salary relief. Which contending team would give up assets for JDM? He is not going to be terribly valuable to NL teams since he is a terrible fielder. Which NL team needs a LF? There is a reason we were able to wait for him to come to us, his market isnt huge, especially if he has an OPS below .900
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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None of those players would get you anything interesting. Maybe JBJ, but which playoff contender would want him? Barnes would be pretty far down on most contenders lists, unless they got him for very little. Porcello we would have to give away, basically just salary relief. Which contending team would give up assets for JDM? He is not going to be terribly valuable to NL teams since he is a terrible fielder. Which NL team needs a LF? There is a reason we were able to wait for him to come to us, his market isnt huge, especially if he has an OPS below .900
3 games out of the Wild Card. Yeah... even with the lackluster (understatement) performance of the team, they're still right there and I cannot imagine a team like the Pirates being 3 games out of a Wild Card berth at this point in the season deciding they need to punt and sell. It's turned into a sort of Red Sox fan arrogance. I still think this team has the talent to get into the playoffs... and will get there... and once they're there, they're dangerous as hell.
But sure.....
There definitely is a point that they should consider themselves "out"... and they have basically a week and a day to make that call or else not getting anything of value. Would some teams like JBJ, Porcello, etc....? Sure.... Would the Sox have to shoulder alot of the remaining salary in order to get something halfway valuable in return? Very likely. Even then... I just don't see the Sox getting anything the way the Yankees did during their firesale season. I hope and don't think it's going to happen anyhow. The team has too much talent and will go on a run and end up with a WC game
 

patoaflac

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Right handed bat out of the bench, better than Travis, he could be this year’s Pearce.
.315 and 1.064 vs left handers. Pulls a lot of balls, should benefit at Fenway.
 
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nattysez

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3 games out of the Wild Card. Yeah... even with the lackluster (understatement) performance of the team, they're still right there and I cannot imagine a team like the Pirates being 3 games out of a Wild Card berth at this point in the season deciding they need to punt and sell. It's turned into a sort of Red Sox fan arrogance.
That's funny, because the SF Giants are 2.5 out of the WC and their fans are DYING for the team to trade MadBum and their best relievers in order to be better-situated for the future.

For Sox fans, it's not arrogance - it's understanding that paying some exorbitant amount for a closer they should've acquired in the off-season is just going to compound a prior mistake.
 

nattysez

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Just to be provocative, if you could completely clear his future salary from the books and get a half-decent prospect for him, would you trade Sale? Doing so would leave the Sox with a lot of work to do in the off-season to rebuild the rotation, but it would reduce the salary-cap crunch and make re-signing Mookie easier.
 

DeadlySplitter

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trading Sale with 5+ years left now? still the most talented pitcher on the staff? we've reached silly season.

Sandoval is coming off the books after this year, and Porcello. there will be room, unless they want a full luxury tax reset.
 

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Just to be provocative, if you could completely clear his future salary from the books and get a half-decent prospect for him, would you trade Sale? Doing so would leave the Sox with a lot of work to do in the off-season to rebuild the rotation, but it would reduce the salary-cap crunch and make re-signing Mookie easier.
I'd rather have Sale at what he's signed to than Mookie at what he's looking for, if I had to make the choice.
 

sean1562

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I’d imagine any Yates trade would probably include Darwinzon and Dalbec? With devers breaking out, I would be fine giving him up. Hernandez though could turn into a great late inning guy

Edit: after thinking about it they’d probably have no interest in Dalbec considering they have machado. So they’d probably want mata?
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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Just to be provocative, if you could completely clear his future salary from the books and get a half-decent prospect for him, would you trade Sale? Doing so would leave the Sox with a lot of work to do in the off-season to rebuild the rotation, but it would reduce the salary-cap crunch and make re-signing Mookie easier.
Whew, we really are in the silly season now. Trade the guy they just signed to a massive extension? I'm sure that would make extending Mookie soooo easy, because if there's any team a player is going to want to sign long-term with, it's the one that might trade you before the extension even kicks in.
 

bsj

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definitetly prefer yates of the two being mentioned. im glad we are at least looking at bullpen arms now given thats our biggest weakness.
 

chawson

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The Wild Card game is definitely in play but I don’t know if Giles or Yates are particularly worth it at this point. Feels like a lot to give up for a guy only under control for 1.5 seasons.
 

Murderer's Crow

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Would the Sox consider sending Benintendi or JBJ in a trade for an arm? Typically not too hard to find extra outfielders (minus the upside) on the market that could replace them.
 

bosockboy

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Would the Sox consider sending Benintendi or JBJ in a trade for an arm? Typically not too hard to find extra outfielders (minus the upside) on the market that could replace them.
My opinion is they will try and resign JBJ to a Hicks type deal, but if they think Benintendi is what he is right now, I’d think it’s possible. If they think there’s even a 25% chance of a Yelich breakout in him, they’ll keep him.
 

Captaincoop

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The Wild Card game is definitely in play but I don’t know if Giles or Yates are particularly worth it at this point. Feels like a lot to give up for a guy only under control for 1.5 seasons.
I wouldn't give up any prospects for the right to maybe play in a one-game playoff.
 

BigSoxFan

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I wouldn't give up any prospects for the right to maybe play in a one-game playoff.
But our prospects aren’t that good, or at least highly rated. I would give up any combination of them for a material upgrade to the big league squad.
 

DJnVa

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Per Yahoo, Sox also scouting Daniel Hudson. His surface numbers look okay, but his FIP is much higher than his actual ERA--4.45 to 2.72.
 

nattysez

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trading Sale with 5+ years left now? still the most talented pitcher on the staff? we've reached silly season.

Sandoval is coming off the books after this year, and Porcello. there will be room, unless they want a full luxury tax reset.
Calling Sale the most talented pitcher on this staff is a back-handed compliment, at best.

You have forgotten that the Porcello ($21m) and Sandoval ($18m) money is going straight into the pockets of Sale ($30m) and Mookie (TBD). Barring doing something significant, they will have very little money available to improve a team that is on course to miss the playoffs.

Whew, we really are in the silly season now. Trade the guy they just signed to a massive extension? I'm sure that would make extending Mookie soooo easy, because if there's any team a player is going to want to sign long-term with, it's the one that might trade you before the extension even kicks in.
Has what you've seen from Sale this year made you think that he'll be worth $28m in 2024? Will he even be worth $30m next year?

That said, I agree with the point that you're never re-signing Mookie without giving him a no-trade if you deal Sale before his extension even kicks in.

I'm not saying trading Sale is going to happen, or that it's even advisable, but I think dismissing the concept out of hand as preposterous ignores the situation this team is currently in.
 

jon abbey

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I watched Yates from behind the plate at Wrigley yesterday. He made Bryant and Baez look silly. I’d be all for getting him since he isn’t a rental, but what possibly could they have to offer SD?
I was thinking about this too, since what SD needs is proven SPs, BOS could maybe make a wild deal along the lines of Eovaldi for Yates and Hosmer? SD would have to pick up a bit of money somehow to keep BOS under the upper tax limit, but that's the best I've got.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I was thinking about this too, since what SD needs is proven SPs, BOS could maybe make a wild deal along the lines of Eovaldi for Yates and Hosmer? SD would have to pick up a bit of money somehow to keep BOS under the upper tax limit, but that's the best I've got.
Why would anyone trade for Eovaldi atm?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Has what you've seen from Sale this year made you think that he'll be worth $28m in 2024? Will he even be worth $30m next year?

That said, I agree with the point that you're never re-signing Mookie without giving him a no-trade if you deal Sale before his extension even kicks in.

I'm not saying trading Sale is going to happen, or that it's even advisable, but I think dismissing the concept out of hand as preposterous ignores the situation this team is currently in.
Turning your first question around, do other teams think he'll be worth that money? Because that's the first question to ask when discussing trading Sale. It's not just that the Red Sox have committed to him long term, it's that they've committed any potential trade partners as well. Can they find a trade partner who's willing to not only take on that salary for that long, but to give up worthwhile prospects as well? Because why are they trading their ace from a criminally thin starting rotation if not to blow it up entirely to rebuild the farm?

Trading Chris Sale at this juncture would represent a monumental shift in organizational strategy. It therefore would take a monumental return for him to justify doing it. What team out there is going to give it to them? That's why I dismiss it out of hand.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I was thinking about this too, since what SD needs is proven SPs, BOS could maybe make a wild deal along the lines of Eovaldi for Yates and Hosmer? SD would have to pick up a bit of money somehow to keep BOS under the upper tax limit, but that's the best I've got.
If they're making that kind of deal, they probably need to have the centerpiece be Rodriguez, not Eovaldi. I know others are against it, but I'm okay with moving Rodriguez in the right deal. Not sure that's the right one, though.
 

DJnVa

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I was thinking about this too, since what SD needs is proven SPs, BOS could maybe make a wild deal along the lines of Eovaldi for Yates and Hosmer? SD would have to pick up a bit of money somehow to keep BOS under the upper tax limit, but that's the best I've got.
Man, I can't see that being anywhere near realistic. If Eovaldi is healthy you're not trading him for Yates and Hosmer. If he's not healthy SD isn't taking him. And why would we want Hosmer? He's league average and for that we'd get to pay him $20 million/year until 2022, and potentially have him opt in until 2025?
 

judyb

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They probably have a better idea than we do what changes are likely to be made to the luxury tax limits and penalties with the new CBA after the 2021 season. They might be more willing to give Mookie a huge contract even while paying other players big money, too, knowing the current rules will only effect the 1st season of his new contract if they're pretty sure they'll have to agree to big changes to avoid a strike.
 

jon abbey

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Man, I can't see that being anywhere near realistic. If Eovaldi is healthy you're not trading him for Yates and Hosmer. If he's not healthy SD isn't taking him. And why would we want Hosmer? He's league average and for that we'd get to pay him $20 million/year until 2022, and potentially have him opt in until 2025?
Feel free to offer up something that makes more sense all around, especially given that SD really has no needs except proven starting pitching and that a bunch of teams with better farm systems would also like Yates.
 

jon abbey

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Why would anyone trade for Eovaldi atm?
The same reason BOS and HOU bid big on him this past winter, plus they’d be moving Hosmer’s deal.

Very (very) easy to poke holes in my idea but very difficult to come up with one that makes sense for both teams.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The same reason BOS and HOU bid big on him this past winter, plus they’d be moving Hosmer’s deal.

Very (very) easy to poke holes in my idea but very difficult to come up with one that makes sense for both teams.
Because there isn't. Yates isn't coming to Boston.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Feel free to offer up something that makes more sense all around, especially given that SD really has no needs except proven starting pitching and that a bunch of teams with better farm systems would also like Yates.
If there's competition for Yates, the Sox are out, plain and simple. The Sox gain nothing trading a starting pitcher for a reliever. And despite their current plans, we can't pretend Eovaldi isn't a starting pitcher.
 

nvalvo

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That's funny, because the SF Giants are 2.5 out of the WC and their fans are DYING for the team to trade MadBum and their best relievers in order to be better-situated for the future.

For Sox fans, it's not arrogance - it's understanding that paying some exorbitant amount for a closer they should've acquired in the off-season is just going to compound a prior mistake.
Yes, but that team:
  • has gone on a tear to get to .500 by riding hot streaks from career minor leaguers Alex Dickerson and Mike Yastrzemski;
  • has a Pythagorean record that suggests they should be 8 games under .500;
  • relatedly, has a 22-10 record in one run games;
  • and a 9-2 record in extra inning games;
  • is led in WAR by 33 year old Evan Longoria and his .764 OPS;
  • has a ton of payroll tied up in once-good players on the wrong side of 30 like Posey, Belt and Crawford who have given them (together) 1.5 WAR in half a season.
In short, the Giants are bad enough that Pablo Sandoval has legitimately been a standout player, and he's been... fine (110 OPS+ mostly off the bench). Brock Holt is a good player, but a team for which Brock Holt is one of the best players is not a good team.

I'd say their fans are absolutely correct that this hot streak is a mirage, and they absolutely should be dealing Bumgarner and their excellent late-inning relievers for prospects. They have some interesting players in high-A, including power hitting CF (and younger brother of long-time Sox minor leaguer Henry) Heliot Ramos and the number 2 pick in the 2018 draft, a two-way catcher named Joey Bart. They should be collecting as many high-ceiling players in A and AA as they can get.
 
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chawson

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Feel free to offer up something that makes more sense all around, especially given that SD really has no needs except proven starting pitching and that a bunch of teams with better farm systems would also like Yates.
Benintendi for Yates plus five years each of Franmil Reyes and Dinelson Lamet would work for me.
 

Yelling At Clouds

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Not super high on Hudson. He looks like a guy having an anomaly of a season so far.
When you're working with the Red Sox' restrictions on payroll and an improving-but-still-in-the-bottom-quartile farm system*, then I think you're choosing from flawed options. If Dombrowski does make a trade for relief help, then I think you're looking at the bullpen equivalent of Cashner.

* - I assume Casas is off the table for this
 
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