2019 Steelers: The More Things Change...

ehaz

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They must be insanely high on Rudolph because that pick has a chance of being top 5.
 

ehaz

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Even if Roethlisberger is healthy and the Steelers are 2-0 I don't love that trade. Minkah is good but how many nickelbacks are worth a 1st round pick?
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Pretty ideal from a Patriots perspective, as its dumb for the Steelers in the long term but also keeps Minkah away from any contenders. Now if somebody else will just make a dumb trade for Ramsey we'll be all set.
 

ehaz

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Pretty ideal from a Patriots perspective, as its dumb for the Steelers in the long term but also keeps Minkah away from any contenders. Now if somebody else will just make a dumb trade for Ramsey we'll be all set.
Seattle? Not a dumb team, but get him outta the AFC and it's not like the Seahawks gave up a ton for Clowney.
 

McBride11

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Minkah was 1:11 in the 2018 draft.

He is down to 2 years control, and while talented, he hasnt exactly been a gamechanger to the level he was at Bama.
Unless Rudolph is that good (or that ready) the Steelers are likely using a similar pick (top 15) to get 2 less years of control.

Seems like a great trade for Flores and Miami and less good for the Steelers.
 

RedOctober3829

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Minkah was 1:11 in the 2018 draft.

He is down to 2 years control, and while talented, he hasnt exactly been a gamechanger to the level he was at Bama.
Unless Rudolph is that good (or that ready) the Steelers are likely using a similar pick (top 15) to get 2 less years of control.

Seems like a great trade for Flores and Miami and less good for the Steelers.
Steelers have him for up to 4 more years after this year with the 5th year option and franchise tag. If they actually play him at slot, he’ll be good. Just not sure they should’ve given up a top 15 at worse pick for him.
 

ehaz

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Now that’s funny. Just how bad do you envision the Steelers being without Ben?
It's not just Ben it's Brown. This was barely a 9 win team that lost a hall of fame wide receiver + the guy that led the NFL in passing yards last season. They've been replaced by a guy with no NFL experience and Moncrief, who has 3 receptions, 4 drops, and 7 yards on 11 targets. They get the Ravens (twice), Rams, Chargers, Browns (twice).

Sure the offensive line is still great but it's not like the running game has looked any good so far, are we anticipating this gets easier for Conner without Ben?
 

thehitcat

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Now that’s funny. Just how bad do you envision the Steelers being without Ben?
I like what Nick Wright said tonight on the radio. First that his initial assessment this year before the season started was that the Steelers were a 7 win team. Without Ben he (and I agree here) think they are more like a 4 or 5 win team. You may disagree with the initial assessment but I think a 2 to 3 game hit is inline with any expectations without Ben.
 

Marciano490

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It's not just Ben it's Brown. This was barely a 9 win team that lost a hall of fame wide receiver + the guy that led the NFL in passing yards last season. They've been replaced by a guy with no NFL experience and Moncrief, who has 3 receptions, 4 drops, and 7 yards on 11 targets. They get the Ravens (twice), Rams, Chargers, Browns (twice).

Sure the offensive line is still great but it's not like the running game has looked any good so far, are we anticipating this gets easier for Conner without Ben?
It’s a bit ironic that they finally shore up the O-line after years of that being an issue, and now Ben is lost for the year.
 

RGREELEY33

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I'm really surprised that Pitt gave up their 2020 pick knowing that Ben is done for season. I didn't think this team was that good to begin with, and they should struggle mightily without Ben. This could have been their Colts-Luck year where they could have sucked for a year, got a really high draft pick they are not accustomed to getting, and then moved on with Ben or Tua or whomever next year. Minkah is legit, but I don't think he is worth giving up a potential top 10 pick for even with the good contract.
 

j44thor

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Pretty ideal from a Patriots perspective, as its dumb for the Steelers in the long term but also keeps Minkah away from any contenders. Now if somebody else will just make a dumb trade for Ramsey we'll be all set.
Not really, Minkah isn't a difference maker and MIA just got a potential lottery ticket. I'd rather they have traded him to a contender and ended up with a back end 1st rd pick. If they use their picks and space appropriately they could be a contender in 3 or so years just as NE is in transition.
 

Dernells Casket n Flagon

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Not really, Minkah isn't a difference maker and MIA just got a potential lottery ticket. I'd rather they have traded him to a contender and ended up with a back end 1st rd pick. If they use their picks and space appropriately they could be a contender in 3 or so years just as NE is in transition.
While this is worse for the Patriots 2-3 years from now as far as division competition, I'd much prefer him on the Steelers than going to KC whom immediately becomes even tougher competition for home field advantage and winning the AFC.
 

tims4wins

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While this is worse for the Patriots 2-3 years from now as far as division competition, I'd much prefer him on the Steelers than going to KC whom immediately becomes even tougher competition for home field advantage and winning the AFC.
This is my take too. The Steelers get control of Minkah for nearly 4 years, but only 3 will matter at the most. In exchange they give up a top 10 pick. I was fearful that he would be going to a contender, especially KC. This is a win-win for the Pats, aside from the downstream effects of how Miami rebuilds over the next 2-3 years.
 
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tims4wins

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This is not what the forum is looking for in terms of discussion. It's ok simply not to post if a one word post like this is what you think furthers the discussion. It doesn't.

Thanks.
I think my post got eaten. Didn't mean to reply with a single word.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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Steelers have him for up to 4 more years after this year with the 5th year option and franchise tag. If they actually play him at slot, he’ll be good. Just not sure they should’ve given up a top 15 at worse pick for him.
With the pick they gave up, they could get a better corner in the 2020 draft that can actually play the boundary and they'd control him for 6. Seems short sighted to me.
 

KiltedFool

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Only way I can see it is to note that the Steelers' success rate drafting defensive backs is the diametric opposite of their ability to draft receivers. Fitzpatrick is more of a finished project than they would have from a draftee. Don't really like it myself, but what do I know?
 

PaulinMyrBch

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Only way I can see it is to note that the Steelers' success rate drafting defensive backs is the diametric opposite of their ability to draft receivers. Fitzpatrick is more of a finished project than they would have from a draftee. Don't really like it myself, but what do I know?
If the package someone gives up for Jalen Ramsey is similar to this, then its going to look like a really bad deal.
 

Old Fart Tree

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As others have mentioned, I don’t understand this trade at all for Pittsburgh. They’re not going to sniff the division this year. A GFIN move with a quarterback that’s out for the year doesn’t make a damn lick of sense.
 

pappymojo

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I posted this in the Dolphins thread. The value of this trade to the Steelers is that Fitzpatrick is cheap and will be cheap for the next three seasons. Jalen Ramsey is not a good comp as he is expensive. Edit: if the Big Ben era is ending, the Steelers will have a bit of a salary cap mess to untangle. This trade is a step in that direction.
 

NYCSox

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Only way I can see it is to note that the Steelers' success rate drafting defensive backs is the diametric opposite of their ability to draft receivers. Fitzpatrick is more of a finished project than they would have from a draftee. Don't really like it myself, but what do I know?
Yeah that's what I was thinking as well. Burns is a bust. Davis is looking like a bust. Edmonds is questionable at best.
 

DrewDawg

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I posted this in the Dolphins thread. The value of this trade to the Steelers is that Fitzpatrick is cheap and will be cheap for the next three seasons.
The draft pick wouldn't be expensive and they'd have the player for longer. They're balancing the fact he's more of a known quantity versus longer control over draftee.
 

KiltedFool

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Yeah that's what I was thinking as well. Burns is a bust. Davis is looking like a bust. Edmonds is questionable at best.
Davis apparently also has a torn labrum, which will keep him sidelined a bit, though it's not listed as season ending.

Super Nomario's right, the OL has been a core strength of the team for a while, from within a year or two of drafting Pouncey in 2010. Having Munchak as the line whisperer paid off huge for a while.
 

KiltedFool

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The draft pick wouldn't be expensive and they'd have the player for longer. They're balancing the fact he's more of a known quantity versus longer control over draftee.
Yep. Effectively trading 2 years for being past the "bust" risk. And I can't completely blame them.
 

sodenj5

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In a worst case scenario, you put Minkah in as your nickel back and he covers slot receivers and is one of the better slot defenders in the league.

From that perspective he’s a known quantity. He could be a good FS if left there. He’s unlikely to be a good boundary CB, even though Miami used him there some last year once everyone else was hurt.

Is that worth a potential top 10 pick? If I had to do the draft over again, I would go with Derwin James, who is actually a multi position star, whereas Minkah really isn’t interested in playing all over the defense.

I’m still in the camp that’s stunned they made this trade after finding out Roethlisberger was done. I thought they might pack it in and try and draft a QB in the first round.
 

Super Nomario

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The draft pick wouldn't be expensive and they'd have the player for longer. They're balancing the fact he's more of a known quantity versus longer control over draftee.
The draft pick would be more expensive, since Miami has to eat Fitzpatrick's signing bonus. Remaining salary on Fitz' deal is less than $6 MM.
 

pappymojo

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The draft pick would be more expensive, since Miami has to eat Fitzpatrick's signing bonus. Remaining salary on Fitz' deal is less than $6 MM.
Exactly. This Dolphins/Steelers trade is kind of the inverse to the Texans/Browns trade for Brock Osweiler. In that trade, the Texans gave up draft capital to dump Osweiler's contract. In the recent trade, the Steelers gave up draft capital to get a player whose bonus was already paid out. The Steelers traded a draft pick for a good player who will be very cheap. The draft pick they gave up could potentially be a better player, but the draft pick will most definitely become a much more expensive player.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Exactly. This Dolphins/Steelers trade is kind of the inverse to the Texans/Browns trade for Brock Osweiler. In that trade, the Texans gave up draft capital to dump Osweiler's contract. In the recent trade, the Steelers gave up draft capital to get a player whose bonus was already paid out. The Steelers traded a draft pick for a good player who will be very cheap. The draft pick they gave up could potentially be a better player, but the draft pick will most definitely become a much more expensive player.
The signing bonus for a rookie contract is small change in the end though, about $2.5M cap hit per year for Fitzpatrick. The Steelers get him cheaper but they only get him for three years rather than four and this year they have zero hope of contending anyway after the Ben injury. So its more like they get him extra cheap for two cost-controlled years (2020-2021) that they actually have a chance of doing something meaningful instead of drafting a player who will be a bit more expensive but they would control for four years from 2020-2023.

I would like the deal a lot more without the Roethlisberger injury. But since 2019 is a bust for them anyway, it just doesn't make any sense to me.
 

ehaz

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In a worst case scenario, you put Minkah in as your nickel back and he covers slot receivers and is one of the better slot defenders in the league.

From that perspective he’s a known quantity. He could be a good FS if left there. He’s unlikely to be a good boundary CB, even though Miami used him there some last year once everyone else was hurt.

Is that worth a potential top 10 pick? If I had to do the draft over again, I would go with Derwin James, who is actually a multi position star, whereas Minkah really isn’t interested in playing all over the defense.

I’m still in the camp that’s stunned they made this trade after finding out Roethlisberger was done. I thought they might pack it in and try and draft a QB in the first round.
I'd take Jaire Alexander over him too.
 

pappymojo

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The trade may have been a reaction, at least in part, to the injury to Roethlisberger.


Roethlisberger signed a rather large extension this past offseason, and the numbers don’t bode well for Pittsburgh going forward. The extension was worth $68 million over two years, with $37.5 million guaranteed at signing. His cap hit in 2020 will be an astounding $33.5 million, and a dead-cap hit of $25 million. Cutting him this year would not only be hasty but pointless, given his dead-cap hit is nothing less of $43.5 million in 2019.


If the Steelers want to get out of Big Ben’s contract, the time will be after the 2020 season, where they gave themselves an out in the extension he signed back in April. Should they choose to part ways, via trade or otherwise, Roethlisberger will only count for $12.5 million against the cap for the 2021 season. If they don’t, he’ll count for $31.5 million against the cap in his age-39 season.


The guaranteed money is already gone, of course, and Roethlisberger had $30 million in injury guarantees included in his extension should the end of his career come via the medical tent. But if Pittsburgh is looking to pull the plug quickly and usher in a new era of Steeler football, they’ll be waiting until 2020 at the absolute earliest, and even then it won’t be easy.
 
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This doesn't have to do with the 2019 Steelers but I just watched the Bradshaw football life and was wondering if any of you saw the parallels between Brady and belicheck and Bradshaw and Noll.
 

mr_smith02

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Trying to think of the last game when the Steelers did not have one of the following players on the field Roethlisberger, Brown, Bell or Shazier. This should be interesting. I think Rudolph is going to have a good game.
 

NYCSox

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Rudolph was OK. The defense still is getting gashed and this time it wasn't Brady or Wilson so there is even less of an excuse. And the genius Tomlin with his always wonderful clock management before the go ahead TD.

At least the second round pick will be high. FML
 

mr_smith02

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So, Steelers will be riding with their third-string QB (who actually put them in position to win today) for at least the next game, if not longer.

JuJu is a great guy, but that was yet another massively untimely fumble from him.
 

NYCSox

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Just got back home from the game. The league has to do something about calling every damn QB hit roughing the passer. I'm sorry Brady missed a season but enough is enough.

Also Lamar Jackson is a fraud. He's Tebow with a touch better accuracy at least on his dink and dunk throws which is all he has.