2019 Rockets: China Hates Us

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,094
Fair enough and I agree that James' comments were unnecessarily pointed. However as was noted upthread, he has a significant amount of money to lose on the surface and its probably safe to assume that he has other financial interests that might be affected by China backing away from the NBA.

I want to be clear that I think supporting HK is important - but as we see around these parts time and again, words on some online platform don't really mean much.
Absolutely. Ultimately, LeBron was basically calling Morey selfish while he pretty transparently was focused solely and selfishly on his business and financial interests.

LeBron has done a lot of good with his comments about social issues so I’m not going to ding him too much but I think in this instance he was just pissed off that someone like Morey was putting his multi-millions at risk.
 

kazuneko

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
2,818
Honolulu HI
Imagine being filthy rich and caring so much about your marginal millions? I’m starting to wonder if sociopathy is a learned trait
Totally. Fuck LeBron. The NBA and their stars (so far both LeBron and Harden have made asses of themselves over this issue) really deserve a serious backlash for this shit. If I was Morey I’d be seriously tempted to make a bigger stand. If he were to say “I believe in democracy and I will always stand for those fighting for it even if it costs me financially. If the NBA or the Houston Rockets thinks this stance goes against what the league stands for they can fire or fine me. But either way I’m going to continue to speak up for what I believe in” what could they do? There would be an increase in the backlash from China of course but this is not an issue that’s going anywhere anyway so the NBA might as well face up to it now. The unavoidable reality of the situation is that the giant market in China is run by an anti-democratic and repressive government whose values clash with most Americans- and that includes many of the leagues coaches, general managers and players (at least the ones who have ideals beyond economic self interest and are educated enough to understand the issues)..
 
Last edited:

Scoops Bolling

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 19, 2007
5,874
Fair enough and I agree that James' comments were unnecessarily pointed. However as was noted upthread, he has a significant amount of money to lose on the surface and its probably safe to assume that he has other financial interests that might be affected by China backing away from the NBA.

I want to be clear that I think supporting HK is important - but as we see around these parts time and again, words on some online platform don't really mean much.
I guess LeBron's "more than an athlete" stance is more about his financial interests than a concern for human rights. LeBron's always been a phony, this is just him illustrating it for the world.
 

Monbo Jumbo

Hates the crockpot
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 5, 2003
25,231
the other Athens
The zeitgeist has flipped from cooperation to confrontation in nearly all matters

Globalization meant a globe-sized pie. Everybody's pies will be smaller now. Choose your markets wisely.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Have always loved LeBron, but that was really lame and disheartening.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,214
I guess LeBron's "more than an athlete" stance is more about his financial interests than a concern for human rights. LeBron's always been a phony, this is just him illustrating it for the world.
Entirely fair but I would argue that Morey deserves more ire. I know there are a lot of people who may disagree but tweeting about something is not taking a stand imho.

What Morey did was effectively stir up problems for his employers without actually putting some skin in the game. It may yet cost him but right now, he continues to go about his business while his bosses and many, many other people have to deal with the fallout. And we are talking immense sums of money, some of which may end up helping people in need - not just already extremely wealthy people like LeBron and Fertitta .
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,673
The Qing James line made me chuckle--this made me bust out laughing.

I think there is a balance here for LeBron where he could have protected his own economic interests without also having to slam Morey and say that Morey didn't know what he was talking about. Clearly the Chinese want NBA figures to criticize Morey as part of the apology tour, but LeBron probably could have got away with something more general than going right after Morey for his comments. Even if you truly don't agree with Morey's comments; the proper thing to do would be to acknowledge that he has the right to say them because this is America, as opposed to "Morey doesn't know wtf he is talking about, he should clam up."
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,505
But again - and I know that social media is the coin of the realm these days - Morey tweeted his views on HK/China. YRMV but I find taking stances via social media to be kind of weak. If Morey is that concerned, he should have done something more than go online.

James' response may not be great but Morey's initial decision was the problem. If any one of us posted something negative about one of our respective employers biggest customers, I suspect we'd be in a bigger world of hurt than Morey is right now. Getting shade from one our colleagues would be mild in comparison.
Not sure I agree with this. If someone tweeted about rampant social injustice, the employer might not like it but probably wouldn't do anything about it. I mean how many people were clamoring for divesting South Africa assets during apartheid?
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,048
To what extent is it also simply likely that China was gonna pick this fight sooner or later?
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,048
Barstool and Deadspin both coming in hot on LeBron and staunchly Team Kanter is a strange coalition.

I saw mention of it and I’ve been wondering since: Why did LeBron kick up the story again if he wanted it to go away? He’s giving it more legs.

Maybe the NBA was sick of the NFL being the league where Americans hash out their domestic social issues and decided to be the league through which we hash out our thoughts on international relations?
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,048
In his defense, he wasn’t silent about it...
The “sorry to inconvenience you, LeBron” angle is getting lots of traction.

Remember when Roger Clemens complained about carrying his own bags?
 

kazuneko

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
2,818
Honolulu HI
Poor LeBron! What a tough week having to answer difficult questions.

Thoughts and prayers.
Yeah, this is just pathetic. When Colin Kaepernick protested police brutality in America, LeBron James was one of his most vocal supporters, tweeting “I stand with Kap. I kneel with Kap,”. Yet when Rockets GM Daryl Morey tweets support for the thousands of pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong currently being brutally repressed by Chinese police, all of a sudden LeBron isn't so big on supporting the right to protest. Somehow LeBron now has the gall to call out Morey for being uneducated and not considering all that could be "harmed” by his words.What a total hypocrite...#QingJames
https://deadspin.com/lebron-james-finally-takes-question-about-china-respon-1839046109
 

kneemoe

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 19, 2006
2,436
Glens Falls, NY
Now that we know Nike was paying Kap decent money, isn't it likely LeBron was given some kind of heads up on that to play with the team, so to speak? Does he really deserve any credit for basically just being part of an ad campaign (in his own eyes I think it was just brand building, as dejesus so coldy lays out, properly, I think)
 

SirPsychoSquints

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
5,013
Pittsburgh, PA
Now that we know Nike was paying Kap decent money, isn't it likely LeBron was given some kind of heads up on that to play with the team, so to speak? Does he really deserve any credit for basically just being part of an ad campaign (in his own eyes I think it was just brand building, as dejesus so coldy lays out, properly, I think)
That’s overly cynical. Lebron has spoken out regarding American racism many times, and it’s reasonable to think those are truly held beliefs. Many people act differently regarding victims they can identify with versus those they can’t.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
13,487
Santa Monica, CA
That’s overly cynical. Lebron has spoken out regarding American racism many times, and it’s reasonable to think those are truly held beliefs. Many people act differently regarding victims they can identify with versus those they can’t.
Truly held beliefs that he knew the majority of his fans and consumers agreed with.
 

kneemoe

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 19, 2006
2,436
Glens Falls, NY
Yeah, I mean, I know it's not a charitable view of him, but that's kind of my point. Overly cynical? I don't know, the guy is managing a brand, his overarching goal has always been a net worth of 1B+, right?

I'd like to believe there's more of substance there, but I have serious doubts
 

SirPsychoSquints

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
5,013
Pittsburgh, PA
Yeah, I mean, I know it's not a charitable view of him, but that's kind of my point. Overly cynical? I don't know, the guy is managing a brand, his overarching goal has always been a net worth of 1B+, right?

I'd like to believe there's more of substance there, but I have serious doubts
Prior to the Kaepernick support, he had notably spoken up about racial justice before. "I can't breathe" t-shirts, Charlottesville comments, Philando Castile, Donald Sterling, Trayvon Martin... he didn't need a Nike deal to incentivize those comments. It's overly cynical to suggest that he wouldn't support Kaepernick without it.

Coop's suggestion that LeBron wouldn't have done that if he felt financial risk to doing so - maybe? I don't see that as the prime difference between racial justice in America and democratic freedoms in China. I see the prime difference as an injustice that LeBron can identify with from an entire life of living with it versus one he would have to do some research, talk to others and spend time thinking about to understand. Sympathy vs. empathy. YMMV.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,100
Seems like LeBron took an issue that was starting to die down and threw kerosene on the fire. There was a reasonable chance that Silver was still going to get most of the money back that China was threatening to withhold. LeBron may not have necessarily helped himself.
 

kneemoe

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 19, 2006
2,436
Glens Falls, NY
Prior to the Kaepernick support, he had notably spoken up about racial justice before. "I can't breathe" t-shirts, Charlottesville comments, Philando Castile, Donald Sterling, Trayvon Martin... he didn't need a Nike deal to incentivize those comments. It's overly cynical to suggest that he wouldn't support Kaepernick without it.

Coop's suggestion that LeBron wouldn't have done that if he felt financial risk to doing so - maybe? I don't see that as the prime difference between racial justice in America and democratic freedoms in China. I see the prime difference as an injustice that LeBron can identify with from an entire life of living with it versus one he would have to do some research, talk to others and spend time thinking about to understand. Sympathy vs. empathy. YMMV.

The guy either has a full understanding of who China is in the world, and doesn't give a shit, or sees them through dollar shaded glasses and doesnt/hasn't cared to look into it more - yet felt the need to weigh in here and chastise someone who, nominally at least, has a deeper felt conviction on the matter. I think that's legitimate cause for a 'wtf' moment.

Which, yeah, makes me question how much of it all is just pr crafting, or how much Nike weighs in on his public stances. I don't think that's so crazy right about now
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,993
Newton
I somehow managed to miss this over the last few weeks. But it's interesting to look at Lebron's two big PR disasters (Qing James and The Decision) and how they relate to one another. In both cases, he stepped into it trying to make a Big Statement and just completely misread how they would be perceived. There's probably something to be said for living in a bubble, but it's more than that, I think -- a naiveté but also an expectation to show some kind of leadership or moral certainty that can come off as disingenuous or tone deaf.

I also think there's some overlap here between this and Jay Z doing his deal with the NFL. There may be something to the idea that African American stars building a brand often have to (or feel pressure to) play ball in ways white America doesn't (or isn't criticized to the same extent for).
 

fairlee76

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,631
jp
Imagine being filthy rich and caring so much about your marginal millions? I’m starting to wonder if sociopathy is a learned trait
And the wording reminded me a bit of this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

Telling Morey that he was "only thinking of himself" when LeBron is clearly only thinking about his money, as others have noted, is super obnoxious. And throwing out the "uneducated" card just compounds the obnoxiousness of LeBron's statement.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,048
I somehow managed to miss this over the last few weeks. But it's interesting to look at Lebron's two big PR disasters (Qing James and The Decision) and how they relate to one another. In both cases, he stepped into it trying to make a Big Statement and just completely misread how they would be perceived. There's probably something to be said for living in a bubble, but it's more than that, I think -- a naiveté but also an expectation to show some kind of leadership or moral certainty that can come off as disingenuous or tone deaf.

I also think there's some overlap here between this and Jay Z doing his deal with the NFL. There may be something to the idea that African American stars building a brand often have to (or feel pressure to) play ball in ways white America doesn't (or isn't criticized to the same extent for).
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/osama-bin-ladens-translator-wanted-lebron-james-to-apologize-to-cleveland/
Carlos Warner, a lawyer representing Muhammad Rahim, an Afghan who was a translator for Osama bin Laden , gave the Loop a brief letter from his client. That note, which was just declassified, consisted of one line: “Dear Mr. Warner — Majid Khan has a cat.”

In addition to sharing the news of Khan’s cat, Rahim had another thought to share with his lawyer, who, we should note, is from Akron, Ohio.

In addition to sharing the news of Khan’s cat, Rahim had another thought to share with his lawyer, who, we should note, is from Akron, Ohio.

"Dear Mr. Warner!" he wrote in a separate freshly declassified letter. "LeBron James is very bad man. He should apologize to the city of Cleveland."

Warner says Rahim's sentiment about the NBA star who left the Cleveland Cavaliers for the Miami Heat reflects his client’s tribal values, in which loyalty is paramount and "betrayals are not tolerated or forgiven, although an honest apology from an offending peer is valued."
Even terrorists get this stuff.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,214
I know people are relishing being able to "dunk" on James. However I do wonder how many real NBA fans (not casual viewers but LP subscribers for example)are prepared to boycott the league over this whole issue.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,048
I know people are relishing being able to "dunk" on James. However I do wonder how many real NBA fans (not casual viewers but LP subscribers for example)are prepared to boycott the league over this whole issue.
Why would people who didn’t root for LeBron quit the NBA over him?

We can root for Kanter!! :)