2019 Raiders: We Got Keelan Doss back

steveluck7

Member
SoSH Member
May 10, 2007
2,899
Burrillville, RI
The mis-management gets me. He was pissed about the fines which led to the IG post, which led to the apology to the team.

How did they not settle ALL fines and contract issues before they had him apologize to the team? It seems like this was the teams end game all along, otherwise all of that stuff would have been completely settled before he returned to the team yesterday
 

KiltedFool

has a terminal case of creeping sharia
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
2,266
Steamin Willie Beeman rides again, with a little Ruby Rod mixed in.

If the Raiders are on firm legal ground regarding his guarantees they are in a better situation than I thought. He either plays week to week for he game check or he sits and the team can keep him from going elsewhere.

TO eventually made the Hall, AB likely will too. But I could see a case where if he doesn’t play this season due to being put on whatever list that he doesn’t play again.

Going from being recognized as the next Jerry Rice, even by Jerry himself, to a train wreck that people watch and point at, is a sobering fall.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
14,724
The mis-management gets me. He was pissed about the fines which led to the IG post, which led to the apology to the team.

How did they not settle ALL fines and contract issues before they had him apologize to the team? It seems like this was the teams end game all along, otherwise all of that stuff would have been completely settled before he returned to the team yesterday
Even if they were, he then went home, and put out a video he had produced which included his secret recordings of conversations between himself and his coach.

Though, I doubt at any point the Raiders said "apologize and we won't fine you", way too much happened this offseason with him for any team to not void his guarantees given the chance. We only see what was done in public, but just that has been a crazy amount of worrying behavior.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
8,591
The mis-management gets me. He was pissed about the fines which led to the IG post, which led to the apology to the team.

How did they not settle ALL fines and contract issues before they had him apologize to the team? It seems like this was the teams end game all along, otherwise all of that stuff would have been completely settled before he returned to the team yesterday
The voiding of guarantees definitely seems almost calculated to trigger an escalation by AB that would lead to them being able to get out from this problem without further impact to the team. The picks traded are a sunk cost, but them baiting Brown into further missteps, if indeed that was the strategy here, seems almost cruel. Not even Belichick would do that.

So can anyone explain on what basis they're voiding the guarantees, and how that jives with the CBA? Because I have to imagine the NFLPA will (and should be) making a royal stink over it.
 

KiltedFool

has a terminal case of creeping sharia
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
2,266
Yeah the Raiders probably started looking at what the threshold was to be able to get out from under the guarantees fairly early on once the circus started, that would be basic stewardship. If he’s productive and part of the team he’s worth the money even with some antics and quirks. If he’s full blown batshit crazy you start figuring out what threshold he has to hit to be an undeniable case for voiding his money.
 

PC Drunken Friar

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 12, 2003
9,518
South Boston
The voiding of guarantees definitely seems almost calculated to trigger an escalation by AB that would lead to them being able to get out from this problem without further impact to the team. The picks traded are a sunk cost, but them baiting Brown into further missteps, if indeed that was the strategy here, seems almost cruel. Not even Belichick would do that.

So can anyone explain on what basis they're voiding the guarantees, and how that jives with the CBA? Because I have to imagine the NFLPA will (and should be) making a royal stink over it.
I think that by fining him for conduct detrimental to the team allows them to do so. I believe it's standard in all contracts.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
39,367
deep inside Guido territory
The voiding of guarantees definitely seems almost calculated to trigger an escalation by AB that would lead to them being able to get out from this problem without further impact to the team. The picks traded are a sunk cost, but them baiting Brown into further missteps, if indeed that was the strategy here, seems almost cruel. Not even Belichick would do that.

So can anyone explain on what basis they're voiding the guarantees, and how that jives with the CBA? Because I have to imagine the NFLPA will (and should be) making a royal stink over it.
In a standard NFL contract it states that the team can come after any and all guarantees if a player's conduct is detrimental to the team. As AB is a vested vet, his base salary is fully guaranteed if he's on the active roster at 4:01 pm today so if the Raiders want to try to cut bait with AB and owe $0 they need to do so today. Per the CBA, the NFLPA will file a grievance on AB's behalf and this will go to litigation so the Raiders need a paper trail to do this which is why he's been fined and the letters go out to him.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
27,886
Belichick would do this in a nanosecond if he believed it was the best way out of a big buyer’s remorse. And, of course, he’d get crushed for it.

We’re it up to the Raiders and AB, we’d probably be done. Contract voided, AB goes where he pleases.

Rosenhaus is the obstacle because he damn well knows this probably was the last big $ contract for AB.
 

johnmd20

literally like ebola
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
38,387
New York City
This story is, without a doubt, the most insane story in the history of NFL preseason. Nothing touches it.
 

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,611
St. Louis, MO
Belichick would do this in a nanosecond if he believed it was the best way out of a big buyer’s remorse. And, of course, he’d get crushed for it.

We’re it up to the Raiders and AB, we’d probably be done. Contract voided, AB goes where he pleases.

Rosenhaus is the obstacle because he damn well knows this probably was the last big $ contract for AB.
It says something that despite his absolute best efforts Rosenhaus couldn’t stop the AB train. Commission gone.
 

kelpapa

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 15, 2010
2,583
In a standard NFL contract it states that the team can come after any and all guarantees if a player's conduct is detrimental to the team. As AB is a vested vet, his base salary is fully guaranteed if he's on the active roster at 4:01 pm today so if the Raiders want to try to cut bait with AB and owe $0 they need to do so today. Per the CBA, the NFLPA will file a grievance on AB's behalf and this will go to litigation so the Raiders need a paper trail to do this which is why he's been fined and the letters go out to him.
What is the precedent for this? Who was the last player to have their contact voided for conduct detrimental to the team?
 

johnmd20

literally like ebola
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
38,387
New York City
I'm not sure if anyone has ever had this happen to them, but the language is there in any NFL player's contract.
It doesn't happen because most players want to earn their guaranteed money. So they don't force their way out of town before they even line up for one play.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
27,886

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
10,016
What stands out about this story is that Brown has a big contract and should be walking into a favorable situation in Oakland. We have seen guys act out before, but someone like TO always did it out of insecurity, they were concerned that they weren’t going to get paid or they weren’t going to be used right in the offense. Brown has a big contract and the Raiders want to roll out the red carpet and make him their signature star.

At this point it’s clear to me that Brown really likes the spotlight and attention but also really just doesn’t want to play professional football.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
14,724
In a standard NFL contract it states that the team can come after any and all guarantees if a player's conduct is detrimental to the team. As AB is a vested vet, his base salary is fully guaranteed if he's on the active roster at 4:01 pm today so if the Raiders want to try to cut bait with AB and owe $0 they need to do so today. Per the CBA, the NFLPA will file a grievance on AB's behalf and this will go to litigation so the Raiders need a paper trail to do this which is why he's been fined and the letters go out to him.
His base will not be guaranteed at 4:01pm as far as I can tell, that is one of the guarantees that is voided under this clause:
View: https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1170333647435685890



Belichick would do this in a nanosecond if he believed it was the best way out of a big buyer’s remorse. And, of course, he’d get crushed for it.

We’re it up to the Raiders and AB, we’d probably be done. Contract voided, AB goes where he pleases.

Rosenhaus is the obstacle because he damn well knows this probably was the last big $ contract for AB.
The Raiders have no interest in voiding his contract, if he doesn't report to play they can put him on the left squad list and pay him nothing while holding his rights
What is the precedent for this? Who was the last player to have their contact voided for conduct detrimental to the team?
Nobody, because a team has no interest in voiding "the contract" just the guarantees, Leonard Fournette had his guarantees voided, Trent Richardson I think too.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
8,591
Belichick would do this in a nanosecond if he believed it was the best way out of a big buyer’s remorse. And, of course, he’d get crushed for it.

We’re it up to the Raiders and AB, we’d probably be done. Contract voided, AB goes where he pleases.

Rosenhaus is the obstacle because he damn well knows this probably was the last big $ contract for AB.
What Belichick wouldn't do is fine him, allow him to apologize to the team and feel like things are normal again, and then make an additional massive fine while voiding his guarantee, essentially making the whole make-nice routine a sham.

He would sit down privately with Brown and say, look here's what happened and why it's unacceptable, here's what we need from you going forward. Can you do that? Ok, this is your last chance, most players wouldn't even get a second chance around here. Here's what's going to happen, there are going to be these fines because that's how we run our team and how we've treated players before, let me give you some examples. You're being treated exactly the same as we'd treat anyone. Your agent is on the phone. Any questions, Drew? Objections? Everyone agree this is fair? Ok, let's put it behind us. Oh, one more thing: nobody will hear anything about this from us. We think it's best if it doesn't leave these walls. You can expect that there will no badmouthing, no media quotes, no nothing unless we want to all get together and issue a statement. Would you like to do so? No? Ok. Will you keep this all in-house with us, then, is that something you can promise us? Ok. Thanks, both of you, let's go get back to football.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
13,009
The most disturbing part of this is something that you simply made up out of thin air? Way to be outraged. Hot take right there.
I'm not sure its logically possible to "make something up" when talking about something that someone thinks *will* happen in the future. But I'll leave the logic to the logicians. But yeah, you're right.
Because when black athletes do something out of line, there is never never never never never any racially charged commentary from some quarrters. Ever.
 

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,611
St. Louis, MO
What stands out about this story is that Brown has a big contract and should be walking into a favorable situation in Oakland. We have seen guys act out before, but someone like TO always did it out of insecurity, they were concerned that they weren’t going to get paid or they weren’t going to be used right in the offense. Brown has a big contract and the Raiders want to roll out the red carpet and make him their signature star.

At this point it’s clear to me that Brown really likes the spotlight and attention but also really just doesn’t want to play professional football.
He also would have been the signature megastar of Las Vegas.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
13,009
FWIW, I *dont* think the Hill tweet had racial overtones. But I do expect the white establishment to employ some unfortunate language as this thing continues to blow up.
 

nattysez

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2010
3,774
The voiding of guarantees definitely seems almost calculated to trigger an escalation by AB that would lead to them being able to get out from this problem without further impact to the team. The picks traded are a sunk cost, but them baiting Brown into further missteps, if indeed that was the strategy here, seems almost cruel. Not even Belichick would do that.

So can anyone explain on what basis they're voiding the guarantees, and how that jives with the CBA? Because I have to imagine the NFLPA will (and should be) making a royal stink over it.
View: https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1170339397910310912?s=19
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
39,367
deep inside Guido territory
His base will not be guaranteed at 4:01pm as far as I can tell, that is one of the guarantees that is voided under this clause:
View: https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1170333647435685890
If any vested vet is on the active roster at 4:01 pm today their base salary is fully guaranteed. That is why you see teams like the Pats cut vets and bring them back in Week 2. In Brown's case, conduct detrimental is a totally different situation and they are going after all of his money.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
14,724
If any vested vet is on the active roster at 4:01 pm today their base salary is fully guaranteed. That is why you see teams like the Pats cut vets and bring them back in Week 2. In Brown's case, conduct detrimental is a totally different situation and they are going after all of his money.
They already did it, his 4:01 guarantee is gone unless an arbitrator decides to give it back, as of now he's working week to week.
 

findguapo

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2006
774
FWIW, I *dont* think the Hill tweet had racial overtones. But I do expect the white establishment to employ some unfortunate language as this thing continues to blow up.
edit - nevermind, covered by bosockboy above.
 

SeoulSoxFan

Dope
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
18,982
Moved all the AB release posts to a new thread. Sorry for the slow moderation. Man, the script lags on Note 8.
 

lambeau

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 7, 2010
1,123
Connecticut
Curious that Gruden and Rosenhaus orchestrate a team meeting with AB apologizing, and a few hours later Mayock sends a letter voiding $30 M in guarantees, with predictable results. Since reportedly Mayock never wanted AB, but Gruden insisted, this miscommunication seems hardly accidental--
apology accepted by Gruden, but not by Mayock, who prevails.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
27,886
ESPN crawl:

“Rosenhaus: Looking forward to a new beginning.”

Dem’s not fighting words. They are words of acquiescence. The gambit may have worked. No grievance, no lawsuit, no nothin.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
25,779
ESPN crawl:

“Rosenhaus: Looking forward to a new beginning.”

Dem’s not fighting words. They are words of acquiescence. The gambit may have worked. No grievance, no lawsuit, no nothin.

Maybe the potential of illegal taping charges factored in.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
60,615
Oregon
Curious that Gruden and Rosenhaus orchestrate a team meeting with AB apologizing, and a few hours later Mayock sends a letter voiding $30 M in guarantees, with predictable results. Since reportedly Mayock never wanted AB, but Gruden insisted, this miscommunication seems hardly accidental--
apology accepted by Gruden, but not by Mayock, who prevails.
If you think for one moment that Gruden didn't sign off on the release ....

Manock gets to play the bad guy and Chucky looks like he stood up for a player
 

Al Zarilla

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
49,757
San Andreas Fault

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Staff member
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
7,151
KPWT
In the biggest Raiders Wide Receiver news of the week:



View: https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1170849840424792065


This Keelan Doss situation is wild. The #Raiders stayed on the rookie WR after he opted to stick on the #Jaguars’ practice squad yesterday. They made him an offer he couldn’t refuse: a $300k signing bonus and a fully gtd $495k base salary. The Alameda native is headed back home.
Keelan Doss went from a non-guaranteed $255,000 salary to $795,000 fully guaranteed plus an active roster spot in two days, thanks to the Antonio Brown situation. A guy we thought would be a mid-round pick but went undrafted is now getting money comparable to a fourth-rounder.
 

Cotillion

lurker
Jun 11, 2019
94
Good for him. Way to play it to your advantage to get fully guaranteed deal. Even if it’s only for one year.