2019 Raiders: We Got Keelan Doss back

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Fuck this guy. He should be out of the league.
I know you aren't saying this but its amazing to me that an admittedly difficult person like Brown is where the line gets drawn for people as to whether a player should be in the league or not. The NFL has more than a few players who have been accused of domestic abuse and other forms assault. I would be willing to wager a decent sum of money that the incidents and numbers are underreported as well.

Meanwhile, Brown has somehow gone too far with his feet, helmet and verbal insubordination? To be clear, he should feel the consequences of his actions but if I am naming players who I feel should be out of the league because of their behavior off or even on the field, I don't think Brown makes the top 20 and maybe not even top 50 given perfect information.
 

RedOctober3829

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If Brown plays Monday, I have to change my stance on Mayock. He goes from threatening to punch you in the face to an "emotional apology" only because he wants his money. Then after that how do you know he'll stay in line? This is the time for Mayock to put his foot down and follow through with the bluster to make a statement to the team.
 

dcmissle

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I know you aren't saying this but its amazing to me that an admittedly difficult person like Brown is where the line gets drawn for people as to whether a player should be in the league or not. The NFL has more than a few players who have been accused of domestic abuse and other forms assault. I would be willing to wager a decent sum of money that the incidents and numbers are underreported as well.

Meanwhile, Brown has somehow gone too far with his feet, helmet and verbal insubordination? To be clear, he should feel the consequences of his actions but if I am naming players who I feel should be out of the league because of their behavior off or even on the field, I don't think Brown makes the top 20 and maybe not even top 50 given perfect information.
The sentiment seems to be that teams shouldn’t want him, not that the League should ban him.
 

loshjott

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If Brown plays Monday, I have to change my stance on Mayock. He goes from threatening to punch you in the face to an "emotional apology" only because he wants his money. Then after that how do you know he'll stay in line? This is the time for Mayock to put his foot down and follow through with the bluster to make a statement to the team.

And......


@AdamSchefter

·Jon Gruden said Antonio Brown will play Monday night vs. Denver.
 

OnWisc

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This will play out about as predictably as an episode of Toonces on SNL.

The rest of the league really seems committed to their approach of dealing with Patriots dominance by staffing their organizations with complete fucking morons.
 

E5 Yaz

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This will play out about as predictably as an episode of Toonces on SNL.

The rest of the league really seems committed to their approach of dealing with Patriots dominance by staffing their organizations with complete fucking morons.
I picture Dana Carvey's Ross Perot pushing Manock out of the car
 

67YAZ

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Will Manock still be the GM-in-name-only Monday?
He has been since the day he was hired. No one in the Raiders organization is unclear about who is in charge - it's the guy with a 10 year, $100m contract.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The sentiment seems to be that teams shouldn’t want him, not that the League should ban him.
Does the distinction matter?

Its undeniable that Brown has been a difficult personality and its understandable if an organization wants nothing to do with him. At the risk of "victim blaming" here (which is a stretch for any NFL team and especially the Raiders), they knew the risks before this summer. However let's put everything in perspective - while Brown may well have had undisclosed issues in Pittsburgh in addition to what we already know "AB Livestream!" as well as the foot and helmet stuff, his transgressions pale in comparison quite a few of his NFL peers.

In short, Brown has been a headache but if people are weighing in on whether teams or the league should want him gone, I would argue that priorities are way out of whack.
 

E5 Yaz

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He has been since the day he was hired. No one in the Raiders organization is unclear about who is in charge - it's the guy with a 10 year, $100m contract.
We know that. I'm more thinking that Mayock is the type to walk away
 

OnWisc

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He has been since the day he was hired. No one in the Raiders organization is unclear about who is in charge - it's the guy with a 10 year, $100m contract.
Seems more like it's the guy with the 3 year, $50m one who's really in charge.
 

tims4wins

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Does the distinction matter?

Its undeniable that Brown has been a difficult personality and its understandable if an organization wants nothing to do with him. At the risk of "victim blaming" here (which is a stretch for any NFL team and especially the Raiders), they knew the risks before this summer. However let's put everything in perspective - while Brown may well have had undisclosed issues in Pittsburgh in addition to what we already know "AB Livestream!" as well as the foot and helmet stuff, his transgressions pale in comparison quite a few of his NFL peers.

In short, Brown has been a headache but if people are weighing in on whether teams or the league should want him gone, I would argue that priorities are way out of whack.
I think you're missing the point again. No one "wants him gone" - it's just that, as you point out, every team would be foolish to take him on.

Edit: it was said upthread, but worth repeating: I think it is a fair question to ask whether he even wants to play football any more
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I think you're missing the point again. No one "wants him gone" - it's just that, as you point out, every team would be foolish to take him on.

Edit: it was said upthread, but worth repeating: I think it is a fair question to ask whether he even wants to play football any more
A poster wrote: "Fuck this guy. He should be out of the league."

You may well be correct that I misinterpreted their meaning and I think the question about Brown's desire to continue playing football is valid. However I was simply responding to what was written.

Edit: Part of this is me struggling with what it means to be a fan of the NFL. I occasionally enjoy the overall product and clearly enjoy following the Patriots. However there are so many odious things about this league as well as parts of the fanbase that its really hard to justify supporting it in any fashion.
 

tims4wins

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A poster wrote: "Fuck this guy. He should be out of the league."

You may well be correct that I misinterpreted their meaning and I think the question about Brown's desire to continue playing football is valid. However I was simply responding to what was written.

Edit: Part of this is me struggling with what it means to be a fan of the NFL. I occasionally enjoy the overall product and clearly enjoy following the Patriots. However there are so many odious things about this league as well as parts of the fanbase that its really hard to justify supporting it in any fashion.
I think you're taking it too literally, but I will defer to whoever wrote the original post
 

nattysez

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Then it's a bigger shitshow than we already thought it was there. Why even bring in Mayock when Gruden apparently is making all the calls.
I suspect it's mostly so Gruden doesn't have to deal with day-to-day draft prep or any small-time player personnel stuff. And, of course, Gruden always needs someone around to blame things on when they go wrong, so Mayock will be that guy.
 

Super Nomario

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I suspect it's mostly so Gruden doesn't have to deal with day-to-day draft prep or any small-time player personnel stuff. And, of course, Gruden always needs someone around to blame things on when they go wrong, so Mayock will be that guy.
It's essentially the same org structure the Patriots have, just maybe a sliver less competent.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Does the distinction matter?

Its undeniable that Brown has been a difficult personality and its understandable if an organization wants nothing to do with him. At the risk of "victim blaming" here (which is a stretch for any NFL team and especially the Raiders), they knew the risks before this summer. However let's put everything in perspective - while Brown may well have had undisclosed issues in Pittsburgh in addition to what we already know "AB Livestream!" as well as the foot and helmet stuff, his transgressions pale in comparison quite a few of his NFL peers.

In short, Brown has been a headache but if people are weighing in on whether teams or the league should want him gone, I would argue that priorities are way out of whack.

I get that you're responding solely to the recent Raiders stuff, but I assume at least some of the posters fed up with AB are also aware that he recently settled and apologized for a case in which he was accused of throwing multiple pieces of heavy furniture off of his 14 story balcony down onto an active courtyard/pool area, nearly hitting a 22 month old and his grandfather. He was apparently having a tantrum because he thought someone stole some money and a gun of his, and utterly trashed his apartment in the process. Point being, his recklessness and self-centeredness extend beyond purely football-related petulance, and I think there may be some recognition of the nearly-killed-a-small-child aspect of his particular pathologies baked into the responses you're seeing now.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24942401/antonio-brown-sued-allegedly-throwing-items-balcony

 

dcmissle

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(1) Emotional apology to teammates (2) extended to the organization (3) followed by denial that he called Mayock a cracker (“I would never use that word.”)

Rosenhaus is good. He’s also highly experienced in this kind of player representation.
 

Gunfighter 09

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Meh. This is the best result all around.

If Rodney Hudson and Derek Carr were good with the apology, which based on Carr's brother telling the world on NLFN they were and reporting that they were standing next to him when he apologized to the team, then I am good with it.

The team has the leverage to void the guarantees in his deal (and the apology only enhances that) and thus make it possible to keep him relatively in line attendance and weird behavior wise.


As DC points out above, Rosenhaus isn't missing out on the commission from that $30M contract. AB now has to show up, play and not cross the line too far to get that money. I still feel better about having AB with $30M due over then next two than having Tyreke Hill for 3/$54.


* BTW - gotta hand it to the other totally in charge coach in the AFC West for doing the extension for their child and wife abusing receiver on the same day the AB drama went to 11. That is great PR clock management by Andy Reid.
 

mwonow

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(snip)


* BTW - gotta hand it to the other totally in charge coach in the AFC West for doing the extension for their child and wife abusing receiver on the same day the AB drama went to 11. That is great PR clock management by Andy Reid.
Finally! A non-blank page in The Book of Great Andy Reid Clock Management Moments!
 

Brand Name

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I have to imagine Brown has Grudens permission to release that audio, otherwise he has to be suspended, right?
If not, it’s also a legal issue given California is a two-party state for recording consent.

Gruden’s voice is dead there, almost as if trying to control his tantruming toddler. Granted, that’s not far from the truth.
 

EvilEmpire

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Sometimes you just have to acknowledge greatness. Really good football player. As a performance artist? Greatness.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I get that you're responding solely to the recent Raiders stuff, but I assume at least some of the posters fed up with AB are also aware that he recently settled and apologized for a case in which he was accused of throwing multiple pieces of heavy furniture off of his 14 story balcony down onto an active courtyard/pool area, nearly hitting a 22 month old and his grandfather. He was apparently having a tantrum because he thought someone stole some money and a gun of his, and utterly trashed his apartment in the process. Point being, his recklessness and self-centeredness extend beyond purely football-related petulance, and I think there may be some recognition of the nearly-killed-a-small-child aspect of his particular pathologies baked into the responses you're seeing now.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24942401/antonio-brown-sued-allegedly-throwing-items-balcony

Fair enough and if the events leading up to this past week weren't enough to confirm that Brown has issues, that video (or at least the reasons for it) is the exclamation point.

That said, if you go down the list I linked to upthread as well as what we know about others (e.g. Mixon), Brown's transgressions pale in comparison. I know you aren't arguing that Brown is on par with them but for me, there is a pretty big gulf between inadvertent harm and someone deliberately trying to hurt another person.

As someone noted upthread, the NFL loves this sort of drama. Well except maybe Mayock but he made his own bed in acquiring a "Space Player".