2019 PGA Tour

The Needler

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Dec 7, 2016
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One would have to think his season is over. I don't see how he can pull out of this tournament and then show up next week. And he won't qualify for the finals.
I’d guess it’s better than 50/50 he plays next week. He wasn’t gonna make the cut, so why bother if he was even a little stiff?
 

BigMike

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Jordan Spieth in the lead? Are they playing with the bumper rails up this week redirecting lost balls back into play?
 

johnmd20

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Like a lot of guys on tour, he's a really superb golfer a couple times a week. It's the other rounds that are a problem. Weekend Spieth forecast: PAIN.
His statistics for round 3 and 4 this year are HORRENDOUS. He's one of the worst scorers on the tour on the weekends, and I believe he's ranked near the top for Thursday and Friday.

So tomorrow is a pretty big day for him.

Here are the stats: Entering the Playoffs, Spieth has averaged scores of 69.35 and 68.4 for his first two rounds, respectively, ranking 10th and second on tour. The next two days have been the struggle as Spieth’s average goes to 71.19 in the third round and 73.0 in the fourth, ranking him 172nd and 195th among his peers for Saturday and Sunday.
 

Zomp

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Also, on the slow play thing, here’s DeChambeau talking almost 2:30 on a 8 foot putt.

View: https://twitter.com/fantasygolfpod/status/1160011658686849024?s=21
This blew up overnight. Some pros are slamming him on twitter as well,notably Eddie Pepperell and Luke Donald.

One thing that the tour needs to do is allow range finders for the caddies. That would help. I’m not crazy about a shot clock because different circumstances do call for longer thought process.
 

johnmd20

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This blew up overnight. Some pros are slamming him on twitter as well,notably Eddie Pepperell and Luke Donald.

One thing that the tour needs to do is allow range finders for the caddies. That would help. I’m not crazy about a shot clock because different circumstances do call for longer thought process.
But if there was a shot clock, everyone golfer would have to play shots they might have to rush. So, ultimately, it would be equal for all of them. I think that would improve the pace of play and golfers would most certainly adjust. These guys are good and all that. Dechambeau took over two minutes to analyze an 8 foot putt. That just can't happen.

Of course he missed the putt.
 

The Needler

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Golfer stands over the ball, the wind gusts up, he’s got 15 seconds to hit the ball. Should he not be able to switch clubs?
First off, rub of the green. Why should a magical wind gust be any different from a bad bounce off a mound in the fairway? Anyway, it’s still not exactly an insurmountable problem scenario. There are plenty of options, including the opportunity to call timeout once or twice per round. A shot clock also doesn’t need to be imposed universally; they could just start it once a group falls behind. The reality is, the guys who would seem to be most sensitive to “wind gusts,” will be the usual suspects - JB, Bryson, et al.
 

BigMike

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Spieth drives it off the map on 1.
And birdies the hole. Birdies 2. Then on 3 hits one right down the middle, 98 yards from the hole, and bogies it :)

Koepka started hot, and good lord the wheels fell off the bus at 8/9 going 6/7
 

BigMike

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Watched the post match interview with Koepka. He was under par in all 4 rounds, and will finish around 30, And to listen to Koepka talk you'd think he finished last after 2 rounds in the mid 70s. this was a complete disaster for him, and he had absolutely no idea where his shots were going all week, and he was uncomfortable with the putter.
 

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
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Throw on the LPGA event (Golf Channel) if you want to be entertained. They’re being forced to play through downpour and the greens have standing water. Someone just rolled a 20’ putt that went maybe half that because it hydroplaned the first few feet and ground to a halt. It’s a disaster.
 

johnmd20

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Reed has a 4 footer for the win and the announcers are acting like it's a 55 footer, off the green, through a windmill.
 

BaseballJones

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DeChambeau firing back about his slow play: https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/2019-northern-trust-bryson-dechambeau-swings-misses-in-firing-back-at-slow-play-critics/

From the article:

"This is a conversation about playing golf in a certain time," said DeChambeau. "If we really want to talk about this, if we really want to do something about this, let's look at the other people that are associated to it. It's the total time it takes to play the hole. It's not just about the time it takes to hit a shot.


"Take the total amount of time to play a hole and see how long it takes for players to walk between their shots. Now guys will say we don't like that because we have our certain rhythm that they have to go the full distance. That's where the problem comes about.

"So which way are you going fix it? Are you going to fix it by timing players as well for how long it takes to get from one shot to the next? Or just over the shot in general? You know, there's a lot of stuff you have to factor in. Today there was a lot of weird things happening."

In the end, I heard a lot of excuses from DeChambeau and not much ownership for a ridiculous display on Friday at Liberty National Golf Club. A little humility here would likely go a long way for DeChambeau, but he seems content to try and explain why, despite evidence to the contrary, he doesn't play as slow as you think.

- - - - -

That last paragraph is the writer's editorial commentary, not mine. Here's mine: DeChambeau does tend to take a long time over the ball, and I don't know how quickly he walks to them. But he's right about speed of play *in general*. When I was learning how to play as a kid, my father said, "It's ok to take a little time over the ball, but you absolutely have to walk quickly TO the ball. You can't mosey over to the ball and *then* take your time over it. Get where you need to go." Of course, maybe one reason I golf in the 80s instead of the 70s is because I walk quickly to the ball and then don't take any time over it either!

But in principle, it's not about waiting for each shot to be made...it's the speed of a round being played. Now maybe on the PGA tour they just look at it differently. Maybe it's more accepted to walk more slowly and then take less time over the ball. I don't know. I just know that there are two ways to look at it.

But man, watching him take *forever* looking at some of these shots is just...painful. Part of why it's painful as a fan is because we don't watch them walk to the next shot. The camera just shows them AT the next shot, and so it feels like it's torture. But when the rest of the PGA tour is criticizing him for slow play, I suppose there must be SOME fire where there's that much smoke.
 

The Needler

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That last paragraph is the writer's editorial commentary, not mine. Here's mine: DeChambeau does tend to take a long time over the ball, and I don't know how quickly he walks to them. But he's right about speed of play *in general*. When I was learning how to play as a kid, my father said, "It's ok to take a little time over the ball, but you absolutely have to walk quickly TO the ball. You can't mosey over to the ball and *then* take your time over it. Get where you need to go." Of course, maybe one reason I golf in the 80s instead of the 70s is because I walk quickly to the ball and then don't take any time over it either!

But in principle, it's not about waiting for each shot to be made...it's the speed of a round being played. Now maybe on the PGA tour they just look at it differently. Maybe it's more accepted to walk more slowly and then take less time over the ball. I don't know. I just know that there are two ways to look at it.
He loves to use this excuse, but it doesn’t hold water. It’s really only relevant when he’s first to play, and, being among the top 20% or so on tour in driving distance, it’s safe to say that’s not usually the case. What’s more, it doesn’t really matter how quickly he walks to the ball if his caddie is not there with him. And based at least on the best anecdotal evidence we have—Andy Johnson’s report from the U.S. Open—his caddie regularly lags behind.
 

BaseballJones

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He loves to use this excuse, but it doesn’t hold water. It’s really only relevant when he’s first to play, and, being among the top 20% or so on tour in driving distance, it’s safe to say that’s not usually the case. What’s more, it doesn’t really matter how quickly he walks to the ball if his caddie is not there with him. And based at least on the best anecdotal evidence we have—Andy Johnson’s report from the U.S. Open—his caddie regularly lags behind.
Well, he doesn't need his caddy to get a good first look at the shot. He knows the course he's playing. Not with precise yardages and of course getting his caddy's input on shot shape and selection is important, but he certainly could use that little bit of time he gets there first to eyeball the shot.

The funny thing is, if he is taking this much time to play his shot, AFTER having walked briskly TO the ball, that means he's taking even LONGER to take his shot than it appears, unless he's using those few extra seconds before his caddy arrives to pick his nose or sign autographs or whatever.
 

cshea

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Bryson blamed everyone but himself. Stevie Williams(!), caddies, other players, etc. Most of the slow players either don’t care or refuse to admit there is a problem. JB Holmes is a guy that doesn’t care, Bryson is more or less in the second category.

The Tour announced yesterday that they will be reviewing the pace of play policy. We’ll see what they come up with. Handing out penalty shots would probably be the quickest way to get the players attention, and it is already in the rule book. Maybe start with that, though the problem here is they don’t put players on the clock until they are already out of position. Brooks has been begging for them to just enforce this rule. A shot clock with players given some allotment of timeouts could work. I don’t love the range finder idea. Sure it would speed things up a bit but I also think calculating distances is a skill. Plus I think they generally get their number quickly, it’s the decision making that is more of a problem. Maybe take away the green reading charts?
 

johnmd20

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Bryson blamed everyone but himself. Stevie Williams(!), caddies, other players, etc. Most of the slow players either don’t care or refuse to admit there is a problem. JB Holmes is a guy that doesn’t care, Bryson is more or less in the second category.

The Tour announced yesterday that they will be reviewing the pace of play policy. We’ll see what they come up with. Handing out penalty shots would probably be the quickest way to get the players attention, and it is already in the rule book. Maybe start with that, though the problem here is they don’t put players on the clock until they are already out of position. Brooks has been begging for them to just enforce this rule. A shot clock with players given some allotment of timeouts could work. I don’t love the range finder idea. Sure it would speed things up a bit but I also think calculating distances is a skill. Plus I think they generally get their number quickly, it’s the decision making that is more of a problem. Maybe take away the green reading charts?
How is a yardage book any different than a range finder, ultimately?

And Brooks is right. Just ENFORCE the rule that already exists. The PGA tour is going to "look into" this? What's to look into, just enforce your own rules? It's insane how incompetent these guys are.
 

johnmd20

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Bryson's arguments are not actual arguments. He's just trying to defend himself, but there is no defense. He just looks stupid.

He calls himself The Scientist. Maybe he should formulate an experiment where he doesn't take 3 minutes to line up and hit an 8 foot putt, and miss it.

I am in full support of speeding up baseball and golf. Part of the game is being ready to play fast. There are enough breaks in both sports, as it is. Anyway, nothing will changes, but it is nice to dream.
 

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
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If everyone is so concerned with pace of play, what is the argument against carts again?
They’re not great for the course in general. But for PGA events the gallery is already murdering the rough so I’m not sure that matters a ton.

Except for the knucklehead slow players I doubt they make a difference since groups do spend more time on the green. Speeding down the fairway to then just wait for the group on the green to do its thing doesn’t seem like it would move the needle much. Some of the resort courses they play have huge distances between holes so maybe they should ferry more.

Golf shouldn’t be encouraging cart use anyway. There’s a place for them but they’re not exactly eco-friendly and they kind of suck compared to carrying. And so many courses require their use at times I hate to give them any more weight to their crappy pro-cart policies.
 

The Needler

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Dec 7, 2016
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If everyone is so concerned with pace of play, what is the argument against carts again?
I believe it was that "the condition of walking is a substantive rule of competition, and that waiving it . . . for any reason would fundamentally alter the nature of the competition." To that end, "Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, and Ken Venturi explained that fatigue can be a critical factor in a tournament, particularly on the last day when psychological pressure is at a maximum."

I would guess those same players would argue that preparing for and taking the shot within a reasonable time is also a critical factor in a tournament, and a substantive part of the competition.
 

cshea

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I don’t think carts would do much. Maybe shorten the overall time of the round but the slow players pace will still be slow. Despite what Bryson says I don’t think players are lollygagging their way from shot to shot. The problems is the routines players go through to hit a shot or putt. JB will get there quicker but still take 2-3 minutes to go through his routine.
 

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
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I don’t think carts would do much. Maybe shorten the overall time of the round but the slow players pace will still be slow. Despite what Bryson says I don’t think players are lollygagging their way from shot to shot. The problems is the routines players go through to hit a shot or putt. JB will get there quicker but still take 2-3 minutes to go through his routine.
Right. They’re not slow walkers. They do spend a ton of time once they arrive at the ball. You don’t get a sense of it much on TV but if you’ve ever been to an event you realize they spend a lot of time deciding what to do—talking to caddy, looking through yardage book, gauging wind, getting reassured by caddy, checking the wind again...
 

barbed wire Bob

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If everyone is so concerned with pace of play, what is the argument against carts again?
Along with what other people have said, it just looks bad on tv. The tour promotes these guys as world class athletes so seeing Brooks, Dustin and Rory jetting down the fairway in a golf cart just adds to the narrative that golf is not an athletic contest.
 

johnmd20

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Along with what other people have said, it just looks bad on tv. The tour promotes these guys as world class athletes so seeing Brooks, Dustin and Rory jetting down the fairway in a golf cart just adds to the narrative that golf is not an athletic contest.
And there is something to the aspect of wearing down on Sunday, when the pressure is highest. Part of golf is being physically able to walk the course and play great shots. Carts would be an abomination and probably wouldn't save that much time, anyway.
 

TFP

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FYI the US Am is on Fox/FS1 this week as well, being played at Pinehurst #2 and #4. Having played #4 earlier this year and absolutely loving it, I'm really excited to see how it shows on TV. And #2 is always amazing. I'm way more interested in watching this than the BMW, to be perfectly honest.
 

The Needler

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Hovland with an opening 64 in the first Korn Ferry final event to tie for the lead. Kid is having no part of playing in the minors next year.
 

cshea

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FYI the US Am is on Fox/FS1 this week as well, being played at Pinehurst #2 and #4. Having played #4 earlier this year and absolutely loving it, I'm really excited to see how it shows on TV. And #2 is always amazing. I'm way more interested in watching this than the BMW, to be perfectly honest.
Wild golf here in the semi’s but still fun to watch. I don’t think anyone’s made a birdie since they came on air an hour ago.
 

TFP

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Wild golf here in the semi’s but still fun to watch. I don’t think anyone’s made a birdie since they came on air an hour ago.
Honestly seems like they’re tired from the grind of the week. This is not good golf but it is kinda fun to watch like you said. They’re all just grinding out there. Augenstein is clearly the best golfer and should be the favorite to win it all.

The course is a beast too.
 

cshea

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Honestly seems like they’re tired from the grind of the week. This is not good golf but it is kinda fun to watch like you said. They’re all just grinding out there. Augenstein is clearly the best golfer and should be the favorite to win it all.

The course is a beast too.
It’s nuts how fast the greens are especially given the rain they got yesterday. These guys are constantly having to make 6-8 foot comebackers.

Competitive and fun matches even if they aren’t playing the best of golf.
 

TFP

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Augenstein’s short game is absurd. 15 straight pars for him today despite spraying it off the tee, this is an impressive round.
 

bostonbeerbelly

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Justin Thomas could have had the best round ever in golf today. I know you can always have what if’s...but he missed 5 putts inside 16’ and dunked his drive in the water on the drivable par 4. Now -11 through 17.