2019 Pats: OL Discussion

DJnVa

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Newhouse was also 8 years younger at the time. Might have something to do with it.
No, you don't understand. Great QBs still win games with him, therefore he's good and Brady fans should stop whining.
 

Bowhemian

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Remember a few years ago when the Pats used to use a 6th offensive lineman in certain situations? They’d bring in Cam Fleming or Waddle to be the 3rd guy on one side of the line. With Wynn coming back, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them use Newhouse in a similar role.
 

ShaneTrot

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Remember a few years ago when the Pats used to use a 6th offensive lineman in certain situations? They’d bring in Cam Fleming or Waddle to be the 3rd guy on one side of the line. With Wynn coming back, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them use Newhouse in a similar role.
They used Eluemunor 5 times yesterday as an extra blocker.
 

lexrageorge

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23 y/o Newhouse started LT for a 15-1 team with a far more mobile QB. 25 y/o Newhouse started in only 22% of offensive snaps for the same team and was released after the season. Took all of 3 minutes to look this up.

Newhouse the person will have my respect; gotta love that tweet. If the Pats do win it, he will deserve the ring as much as everyone else on the team deserves the ring. He's just not a very good LT, and really not even an average LT at this point. And that's a big problem for how this team is constructed. So, yes, I am looking forward to Newhouse playing a solid role on the offensive line every week.... on the scout team in practice.
 

bsj

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Marshall Newhouse was a damn good LT 8 years ago.
He got old.
He was a street FA for a reason.
Yet I give him credit....busted his ass. Kept us winning (Baltimore was not on him)...and Brady isnt broken.
I have no Newhouse hate.
Not sure why any of this is a thing.
 

Seels

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That's a funny tweet and I appreciate his attitude but he's probably the worst player I've seen in 25 years of watching the team. At least the worst starter. I'm actually not sure of anyone who is even close aside from maybe Chad Johnson.
 

Oppo

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That's a funny tweet and I appreciate his attitude but he's probably the worst player I've seen in 25 years of watching the team. At least the worst starter. I'm actually not sure of anyone who is even close aside from maybe Chad Johnson.
Cyrus Jones says hello
 

RetractableRoof

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That's a funny tweet and I appreciate his attitude but he's probably the worst player I've seen in 25 years of watching the team. At least the worst starter. I'm actually not sure of anyone who is even close aside from maybe Chad Johnson.
Imagine if he agreed and just retired. The alternatives must be mind-boggling if a) BB keeps running him out there and b) this is the best Dante can coach him up.

I have no issue with a player giving it his all and coming up short. It's up to the team to put him in a position to succeed or replace him or scheme around his abilities.
 

InstaFace

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Marshall Newhouse was a damn good LT 8 years ago.
He got old.
He was a street FA for a reason.
Yet I give him credit....busted his ass. Kept us winning (Baltimore was not on him)...and Brady isnt broken.
I have no Newhouse hate.
Not sure why any of this is a thing.
I hate that he's starting at LT. I can't wait for him to no longer be starting at LT. But that's not personal, it's strictly business. The guy himself seems fine.
 

Super Nomario

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That's a funny tweet and I appreciate his attitude but he's probably the worst player I've seen in 25 years of watching the team. At least the worst starter. I'm actually not sure of anyone who is even close aside from maybe Chad Johnson.
Even in the "recent OL" division, I'm not sure he's worse than Jordan Devey.
 

joe dokes

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Imagine if he agreed and just retired. The alternatives must be mind-boggling if a) BB keeps running him out there and b) this is the best Dante can coach him up.

I have no issue with a player giving it his all and coming up short. It's up to the team to put him in a position to succeed or replace him or scheme around his abilities.
Theyre 9-1, without changing the offense much to suit one player. A lot of "regular" stuff isn't working, but then they just dig to the back of the playbook to find something that does. At least just enough to let the D and ST take over. With hopes, when LT is less of a hole, they'll keep running their offense and it will just work better. If it was just one big playoff game, or it turned out to be permanent this season, then they'd have to scheme around him. But for a finite temporary period, it makes sense to run the normal offense as best they can.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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That's a funny tweet and I appreciate his attitude but he's probably the worst player I've seen in 25 years of watching the team. At least the worst starter. I'm actually not sure of anyone who is even close aside from maybe Chad Johnson.
Clearly you’ve blocked out the memory of Cassius Marsh.

Edit: and Cyrus Jones sends his regards.
 

Super Nomario

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Theyre 9-1, without changing the offense much to suit one player. A lot of "regular" stuff isn't working, but then they just dig to the back of the playbook to find something that does. At least just enough to let the D and ST take over. With hopes, when LT is less of a hole, they'll keep running their offense and it will just work better. If it was just one big playoff game, or it turned out to be permanent this season, then they'd have to scheme around him. But for a finite temporary period, it makes sense to run the normal offense as best they can.
That's not how the Patriots operate. They don't have a "normal offense." Their system is heavily gameplan-dependent. They are famous for totally changing what they do week to week to attack weaknesses. They have been unable to do that this year, because they don't have a broad set of skills on their offense and they can't execute with any kind of consistency. The in-game adjustments aren't there either; when plan A goes badly, plan B isn't working any better.
 

Van Everyman

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That's a funny tweet and I appreciate his attitude but he's probably the worst player I've seen in 25 years of watching the team. At least the worst starter. I'm actually not sure of anyone who is even close aside from maybe Chad Johnson.
So you’re still mad on the internet then? Cool.
 

SMU_Sox

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That's a funny tweet and I appreciate his attitude but he's probably the worst player I've seen in 25 years of watching the team. At least the worst starter. I'm actually not sure of anyone who is even close aside from maybe Chad Johnson.
Recency bias. He’s not a starter. He’s a backup who is starting. It’s an important distinction here. Belichick through injury, lack of performance, cap issues, retirements, etc. couldn’t solidify an NFL caliber swing tackle until he signed Newhouse on September 11th. Two reasons to never forget that day.

I think the entire line has been mediocre minus Thuney. Even though they might be gameplan specific there are usually staples that they are good at running. Or there are certain personnel packages that they do better in year to year. This year you just hope they BioWare it.

The optimist in me says the ripple effect from Wynn coming back with more time for Harry and Sanu will get them to be a good 11 personnel team. The line playing better will settle Brady down.

But on the other hand the line might only improve slightly and the offense is stuck in the middle of the pack. Even in this negative case they still have the ST and defense to compete.

I just hope this year on offense isn’t the BioWare equivalent of Anthem.
 

joe dokes

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That's not how the Patriots operate. They don't have a "normal offense." Their system is heavily gameplan-dependent. They are famous for totally changing what they do week to week to attack weaknesses. They have been unable to do that this year, because they don't have a broad set of skills on their offense and they can't execute with any kind of consistency. The in-game adjustments aren't there either; when plan A goes badly, plan B isn't working any better.
That's what I meant. I think they *are* doing their usual gameplanning for the particular opponent. It just isn't working very well. My only point was that they *aren't* game-planning "around" NewThisOldhouse (as far as I can tell). And when A and B don't work, they have Edelman throw a pass and Burkhead throw a long lateral. One of them worked, and it was just enough to let superior D and ST carry the day. The idea is that they'll keep doing what they do (game-plan for Dallas) when Wynn is at LT, and it should just work better.
 

richgedman'sghost

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That's a funny tweet and I appreciate his attitude but he's probably the worst player I've seen in 25 years of watching the team. At least the worst starter. I'm actually not sure of anyone who is even close aside from maybe Chad Johnson.
Cyrus the Virus Jones?
 

SeoulSoxFan

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That's a funny tweet and I appreciate his attitude but he's probably the worst player I've seen in 25 years of watching the team. At least the worst starter. I'm actually not sure of anyone who is even close aside from maybe Chad Johnson.
I'd put signings like Monty Beisel or Shawn Springs way above (below?) Ocho or even Newhouse.
 

BaseballJones

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cbssports.com mock draft: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-nfl-mock-draft-after-tua-tagovailoa-injury-dolphins-now-have-to-rethink-qb-position-other-needs/

They have Tua falling out of the first round, and the Pats taking:

Josh Jones OL
HOUSTON • SR • 6'7" / 310 LBS
PROJECTED TEAM New England PROSPECT RNK 91st POSITION RNK 6th


LT Isaiah Wynn, the Pats' 2018 first-round pick, has played in just two games in 2019 after missing all of his rookie season. If we've learned anything the last two months it's that Tom Brady isn't the same player when he's not protected. Jones is having a strong year for the Cougars and displays the type of strength and athleticism that translates well to the NFL.
- - - - -

So if you're the Pats, and Tua's prognosis is reasonable, and he's there for you at the end of the first round, would you rather they take Tua or Josh Jones to help shore up the OL?
 

DJnVa

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cbssports.com mock draft: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-nfl-mock-draft-after-tua-tagovailoa-injury-dolphins-now-have-to-rethink-qb-position-other-needs/

They have Tua falling out of the first round, and the Pats taking:

Josh Jones OL
HOUSTON • SR • 6'7" / 310 LBS
PROJECTED TEAM New England PROSPECT RNK 91st POSITION RNK 6th


LT Isaiah Wynn, the Pats' 2018 first-round pick, has played in just two games in 2019 after missing all of his rookie season. If we've learned anything the last two months it's that Tom Brady isn't the same player when he's not protected. Jones is having a strong year for the Cougars and displays the type of strength and athleticism that translates well to the NFL.
- - - - -

So if you're the Pats, and Tua's prognosis is reasonable, and he's there for you at the end of the first round, would you rather they take Tua or Josh Jones to help shore up the OL?
Tua. CBS is being too cute here in a lot of ways, mostly by saying Pats are going to draft the 91st rated prospect because, you know, BB doesn't care for traditional rankings. So they're digging deep and trying to find one.
 

BaseballJones

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Tua. CBS is being too cute here in a lot of ways, mostly by saying Pats are going to draft the 91st rated prospect because, you know, BB doesn't care for traditional rankings. So they're digging deep and trying to find one.
That's what I say. Tua probably still has a chance to be a great great player. Not sure Jones does, even though the Pats could definitely use more talent on the OL. Imagine a healthy Tua backing up Brady and being the heir apparent? That would be amazing. I'd take Tua and assume they could shore up the OL with other draft picks.
 

dcmissle

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Tua. CBS is being too cute here in a lot of ways, mostly by saying Pats are going to draft the 91st rated prospect because, you know, BB doesn't care for traditional rankings. So they're digging deep and trying to find one.
Logan Mankins projected third round, went in the first. I seriously doubt commentators are using mock drafts to troll BB.
 

DJnVa

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Logan Mankins projected third round, went in the first. I seriously doubt commentators are using mock drafts to troll BB.
They're not trolling BB and I even said in my post that BB does do that.

I'm saying CBS trying to project which guy they are going to reach for.
 

BaseballJones

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Let's say that Wynn does represent an enormous upgrade, and suddenly the running game rips off 140 yards and Brady is kept clean and throws for 300+, while the defense still does its normal thing. How much different is that going to feel than it does right now?

(hoping that actually comes to pass)
 

Soxy

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We probably shouldn't lose sight of the fact that Wynn has been healthy enough to play all of 82 snaps in his 29 game (regular and post-season) NFL career.

Let's see if he can make it through back to back games without getting injured first, before we start declaring him a savior. Baby steps.
 

E5 Yaz

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So if you're the Pats, and Tua's prognosis is reasonable, and he's there for you at the end of the first round, would you rather they take Tua or Josh Jones to help shore up the OL?
I doubt Tua would be an OL upgrade
 

Super Nomario

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Low key reason that the line is so bad is that Cajuste and Froholdt both weren't ready to contribute this year.
Cajuste at least had to be expected when they drafted him. But don't forget Jared Veldheer and Brian Schwenke retiring, too. They might have both started this year.
 

DJnVa

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Let's say that Wynn does represent an enormous upgrade, and suddenly the running game rips off 140 yards and Brady is kept clean and throws for 300+, while the defense still does its normal thing. How much different is that going to feel than it does right now?
Are you asking us if we'll be happier on Sunday evening if the Patriots offense looks good?
 

j44thor

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Let's say that Wynn does represent an enormous upgrade, and suddenly the running game rips off 140 yards and Brady is kept clean and throws for 300+, while the defense still does its normal thing. How much different is that going to feel than it does right now?

(hoping that actually comes to pass)
I know Newhouse sucks and Wynn will certainly be an upgrade but it is going to take a lot more than improved LT play to make Sony Green Ellis faster and more elusive this year. To think this team drafted him over Chubb despite Chubb being the more productive player who ranked higher in the same program. Just imagine this team with Chubb instead of Sony right now. That was a scouting misfire plain and simple.
 

tims4wins

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I know Newhouse sucks and Wynn will certainly be an upgrade but it is going to take a lot more than improved LT play to make Sony Green Ellis faster and more elusive this year. To think this team drafted him over Chubb despite Chubb being the more productive player who ranked higher in the same program. Just imagine this team with Chubb instead of Sony right now. That was a scouting misfire plain and simple.
Sony could never play another down and I still wouldn't be mad at the pick. 6 playoff TDs last year. 6.
 

j44thor

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Sony could never play another down and I still wouldn't be mad at the pick. 6 playoff TDs last year. 6.
Running through holes you could drive a bus through behind a top 3 OL. He took advantage of the opp but I'm fairly certain there are at least 20rbs that could have delivered those 6tds and I'm likely being very conservative.
 

RIrooter09

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I know Newhouse sucks and Wynn will certainly be an upgrade but it is going to take a lot more than improved LT play to make Sony Green Ellis faster and more elusive this year. To think this team drafted him over Chubb despite Chubb being the more productive player who ranked higher in the same program. Just imagine this team with Chubb instead of Sony right now. That was a scouting misfire plain and simple.
Shades of drafting Jermaine Cunningham over teammate Carlos Dunlap.
 

Manuel Aristides

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Both things are true. Chubb seems to obviously be the better player, and choosing Michel looks like a mistake. But the Michel pick did indeed lead to a super bowl win. Could a Chubb pick have led to that? Maybe, sure. Easy to imagine it. But I'm with tims4wins, I can't hate Sony Michel. It worked, at least enough for one superbowl... and lest we forget how spoiled we are, most fans would trade several first rounder successes for a single superbowl win. As ugly as Sony has looked this year, if you told me you could swap Chubb for Sony and the only cost would be "you have to play that superbowl over again", I'm passing on that. Also, I think it's really difficult to calculate how much the offensive lines impact our judgement of both players— would Chubb have 1000 yards behind this line? Kinda doubt it.
 

ShaneTrot

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I know Newhouse sucks and Wynn will certainly be an upgrade but it is going to take a lot more than improved LT play to make Sony Green Ellis faster and more elusive this year. To think this team drafted him over Chubb despite Chubb being the more productive player who ranked higher in the same program. Just imagine this team with Chubb instead of Sony right now. That was a scouting misfire plain and simple.
I believe one of the reasons that the Pats liked Sony was he can pass block. He is not in on a lot of passing downs but he can do it. You will not play a down for the Pats as a RB unless you do what they want (ask a young James White or Vereen or Damien Harris). Sony also has excelled at ball security. I am not thrilled with Sony's production this year but he hasn't been helped by all the injuries and players lost from last year. Gronk and Allen blocked like OTs last year.
 

Jimbodandy

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We need some BB style breakdowns in this thread to show how bad the run blocking has been.
Or maybe just some videos of prime Jim Brown or prime Barry Sanders, because those are the only two guys besting 4ypc with this OL. Downvoting Sony here is bizarre. Burkhead has 4.1ypc running mostly on passing downs.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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So if you're the Pats, and Tua's prognosis is reasonable, and he's there for you at the end of the first round, would you rather they take Tua or Josh Jones to help shore up the OL?
Who wouldn't love it if Tua refused to work out or share medicals with any NFL team except the Pats, who in turn gave him a promise to select him in the first round?