Pats Sign ST Justin Bethel

E5 Yaz

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Baltimore Sun:

The Ravens signed Bethel to a two-year, $4 million deal this offseason, but with former Ravens defensive end Brent Urban’s release Saturday by the Tennessee Titans, the team was expected to lose a compensatory 2020 NFL draft pick. By releasing Bethel before Week 10, the Ravens will get back their projected fourth-round pick.

“Judgment has to be made for the future as well,” Ravens coach John Harbaugh, who called the compensatory system “funky,” said at his weekly news conference Monday. “That’s tough for us because, I told him, I think he’s the best special teams player in the NFL, and he’s playing that way. So that’s going to be a blow, and we’re going to have to find a way to overcome that.”

Bethel, 29, has six tackles and a fumble recovery in seven games this season while playing a team-high 81.07% of the Ravens’ special teams snaps.
 

Harry Hooper

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Baltimore Sun:

The Ravens signed Bethel to a two-year, $4 million deal this offseason, but with former Ravens defensive end Brent Urban’s release Saturday by the Tennessee Titans, the team was expected to lose a compensatory 2020 NFL draft pick. By releasing Bethel before Week 10, the Ravens will get back their projected fourth-round pick.

“Judgment has to be made for the future as well,” Ravens coach John Harbaugh, who called the compensatory system “funky,” said at his weekly news conference Monday. “That’s tough for us because, I told him, I think he’s the best special teams player in the NFL, and he’s playing that way. So that’s going to be a blow, and we’re going to have to find a way to overcome that.”

Bethel, 29, has six tackles and a fumble recovery in seven games this season while playing a team-high 81.07% of the Ravens’ special teams snaps.
How will the Ravens fandom take the coach saying a player was cut for non-performance, non-disciplinaryreasons? How will the players' association handle it?
 

BigJimEd

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2 years of the best special teams player in the league isn't worth a 4th round comp pick?
 

bigq

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This is amazing. The Patriots already have outstanding special teams play and it just got better.
 

Ed Hillel

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Forget Sanu, replacing Fuckhead with arguably the best Special Teams player in the league? Good golly, Miss Jolly.
 

RetractableRoof

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Forget Sanu, replacing Fuckhead with arguably the best Special Teams player in the league? Good golly, Miss Jolly.
I like the Sanu deal, but wrt Richards/Bethel exchange, that really is a huge upgrade. We often see BB churning spots or positions on the roster, just looking for incremental improvement. This is way beyond that. Later this season there will be a play by Bethel that a lesser ST wouldn't have made that swings field position or the like and the rest of the league will just shake their heads at how BB gets his hands on players like that.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Harbough saying they were “required” by comp rules to release Johnson is just bullshit spin. They chose a late fourth over him. It’s fine but call it what it is.

Putting Johnson on the market is catnip for Belichick. I mean, who in the league would he grab faster? Hekker. Maybe. Ed Reed is retired.

If you wanted to infiltrate the Patriots with a Manchurian candidate this would be the way to do it if you’re Harbaugh. Brady better have someone watch his sports drinks to make sure Johnson isn’t sneaking something in there.
 

bankshot1

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So if they released him they got their a 4th back, but if they traded him they would receive the trade value (presumably less than a 4th)?
 
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thehitcat

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is there a Sons of Deer Antler Spray board where I can go watch actual Ravens fans go crazy over this? It seems unfathomable to me that you would dump a player of his pedigree for a late 4th that you don't get until next year.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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is there a Sons of Deer Antler Spray board where I can go watch actual Ravens fans go crazy over this? It seems unfathomable to me that you would dump a player of his pedigree for a late 4th that you don't get until next year.
General sentiment at Russellstreet report.com is that cutting Bethel was a cold blooded move that had to be done. Most posters don’t mention his special teams prowess. But then, when his signing w Pats is announced, there’s more outrage the Ravens didn’t wait until the other side of the Week 9 matchup to make the move
https://forum.russellstreetreport.com/showthread.php?184237-Justin-Bethel-ReleasedI should add, much as I detest the Ravens, this board seems like a fairly level-headed and useful place. Chiefsplanet.com just lowered the bar beyond all recognition — makes theganggreen.com look like politico.
 
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E5 Yaz

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Harbough saying they were “required” by comp rules to release Johnson is just bullshit spin. They chose a late fourth over him. It’s fine but call it what it is.

Putting Johnson on the market is catnip for Belichick. I mean, who in the league would he grab faster? Hekker. Maybe. Ed Reed is retired.

If you wanted to infiltrate the Patriots with a Manchurian candidate this would be the way to do it if you’re Harbaugh. Brady better have someone watch his sports drinks to make sure Johnson isn’t sneaking something in there.
Who's Johnson?
 

thehitcat

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General sentiment at Russellstreet report.com is that cutting Bethel was a cold blooded move that had to be done. Most posters don’t mention his special teams prowess. But then, when his signing w Pats is announced, there’s more outrage the Ravens didn’t wait until the other side of the Week 9 matchup to make the move
https://forum.russellstreetreport.com/showthread.php?184237-Justin-Bethel-ReleasedI should add, much as I detest the Ravens, this board seems like a fairly level-headed and useful place. Chiefsplanet.com just lowered the bar beyond all recognition — makes theganggreen.com look like politico.
Thanks @Mugsy's Jock I agree that place is fairly well put together and seems reasonably well moderated. Quick note it's odd for me to see how they refer to Eric Da Costa. Their reverence for him is at odds with how I remember him from college but I suppose we all change and add gravitas as we age.
 

joe dokes

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This is amazing. The Patriots already have outstanding special teams play and it just got better.
Someone in the Sanu thread suggested that the gaggle of big receivers can "make up" for a shaky OL, (paraphrasing) because there's no time to throw long anyway.
I think this is related to that. At this point in the season, BB et al might see the 3 phases as: freakishly excellent defense, excellent ST (FG kicker ?? aside) and darn good offense. Turning the ST into freakishly excellent, too, helps "compensate" for the not-historically great offense. Longer fields for the other team against this defense; shorter fields for this offense. Who knows? Maybe we'll see more punts from the other side of the 50 to take advantage of the D and ST. It's pretty remarkable. BB doesn't just game-plan by opponent week by week. He approaches in-season team building in a flexible way depending on circumstances like: makeshift O-line, no fullbacks, and tight ends who are not necessarily crushing blockers (certainly not at the Allen and Gronk levels, anyway).
 

InstaFace

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FO rates our ST as average, 14th, +0.3% after being 21st last week. Positive on punt and punt return, a little positive on kick and a little negative on kick return, and WAY negative (28th) on FG/XP, which frankly matches our eyes.

Bethel's major impact is on kick coverage, with lots of FG blocks and kickoff/punt coverage plays like the above. If anything, he's going to make an existing strength (Between Slater / Jones) into a bigger strength. But I'm not sure he's going to turn around our biggest ST weakness, the way Nugent could.
 

Super Nomario

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FO rates our ST as average, 14th, +0.3% after being 21st last week. Positive on punt and punt return, a little positive on kick and a little negative on kick return, and WAY negative (28th) on FG/XP, which frankly matches our eyes.

Bethel's major impact is on kick coverage, with lots of FG blocks and kickoff/punt coverage plays like the above. If anything, he's going to make an existing strength (Between Slater / Jones) into a bigger strength. But I'm not sure he's going to turn around our biggest ST weakness, the way Nugent could.
You have to read FO's methodologies carefully because they are inconsistent about whether they describe what happened or try to predict the future. The Patriots get no credit for their blocked punts this year because "blocked kicks are so rare as to be statistically insignificant as predictors for future performance and are thus ignored."
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I guess in thinking about this a bit more, it's not a horrible move by the Ravens. Would you use a 4th round pick during the draft for a year and a half of a preominant special teamer. Probably most teams wouldn't, unless he has some other significant flexibility. Plus, add in the Ravens get a little cap relief.

It's noteworthy that Bethel signed so quickly with the Patriots. My guess is that there wasn't a huge market. I think other teams just don't value special teams quite as highly as Belichick does. I think as yards per attempt and first downs and stuff increase league wide, and with the new kick off rules, there's less of a premium put on field position than their used to be, at least in some coaches' minds.

But more fundamentally, special teams is just really significant to how Belichick operates. First, I think the Patriots are really lucky in that they know that every year may very well come down to one or two plays here or there. Second, I think Belichick really values very highly not having to worry about special teams taking up too many reps during the week or too much mental energy in constructing depth charts for in-game injury. He loves his swiss army knife guys who can play multiple special teams positions in a pinch without giving much away. Two of his favorites -- Burkhead and Chung -- have been nicked up this year.

Anyway, tl;dr I think you can make a good case that this was the right move for both teams.
 

Pandemonium67

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This move helps the Pats a bit and so I'm glad they made it. It was really a no-brainer.

However, I see the Pats as having just improved a defensive ST that was already excellent. Their punt coverage (which is important) will be fantastic. Their kickoff coverage (much less important due to touchbacks, unless BB starts trying to pin the other team back the way the Pats did last year) will also be fantastic.

The offensive ST, though, is pretty mediocre. Bolden returning kickoffs? I mean, I like the guy but that's just not his forte. He's not a burner that can see a crease and fly. Gunner returning punts? He might be OK, but you don't have a lot of hopes that he's going to break very many. The big thing is you hope he doesn't muff any, and the jury is still out on that (he's muffed just the one so far). And we all know that Nugent was taken off the scrap heap. Maybe he's OK, maybe not; we don't know yet. In any case we'll all be praying when he's lining up a key 48-yarder sometime in January. Those three key positions -- KO returner, punt returner and kicker -- are where the Pats most need an upgrade.
 

tims4wins

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This move helps the Pats a bit and so I'm glad they made it. It was really a no-brainer.

However, I see the Pats as having just improved a defensive ST that was already excellent. Their punt coverage (which is important) will be fantastic. Their kickoff coverage (much less important due to touchbacks, unless BB starts trying to pin the other team back the way the Pats did last year) will also be fantastic.

The offensive ST, though, is pretty mediocre. Bolden returning kickoffs? I mean, I like the guy but that's just not his forte. He's not a burner that can see a crease and fly. Gunner returning punts? He might be OK, but you don't have a lot of hopes that he's going to break very many. The big thing is you hope he doesn't muff any, and the jury is still out on that (he's muffed just the one so far). And we all know that Nugent was taken off the scrap heap. Maybe he's OK, maybe not; we don't know yet. In any case we'll all be praying when he's lining up a key 48-yarder sometime in January. Those three key positions -- KO returner, punt returner and kicker -- are where the Pats most need an upgrade.
Circumstances matter, but FWIW Gost was 18-23 this year and Nugent is 15-17 so far. And one of Nugent's misses was quite clearly an awful hold. His other miss was his first kick.
 

tmracht

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This move helps the Pats a bit and so I'm glad they made it. It was really a no-brainer.

Snip Their kickoff coverage (much less important due to touchbacks, unless BB starts trying to pin the other team back the way the Pats did last year) will also be fantastic.

The offensive ST, though, is pretty mediocre. Bolden returning kickoffs? I mean, I like the guy but that's just not his forte. He's not a burner that can see a crease and fly. Snip
Think you see why KR is not a huge priority for them this year in your two statements. Agree on the other two, PR and K are still highly important especially when your defense is not letting punters pin you at the 5 and there is some room to return.
 

Pandemonium67

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Yeah, Nugent is a scrap-heap replacement for a guy whom I've been increasingly less sure about. So far Nugent looks good on PATs, which was becoming an issue for Gost.

So far, so good on Nugent's FGs, but we don't really know yet. BB seems to "shield" him a bit from difficult FG attempts, choosing to punt from close in rather than attempting 45- to 50-yarders. Those were largely determined by game circumstances, of course -- no need to kick a FG when you're up 33 in the 4th, and maybe he wants to give Bailey practice with the coffin corner. We'll see what happens in close games when the Pats have 4th and 8 from the opponent's 35.

I'm hoping Nugent is a great replacement, but I'm far from sold. I figure there's a good reason he was out of a job in September.
 

tims4wins

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Yeah, Nugent is a scrap-heap replacement for a guy whom I've been increasingly less sure about. So far Nugent looks good on PATs, which was becoming an issue for Gost.

So far, so good on Nugent's FGs, but we don't really know yet. BB seems to "shield" him a bit from difficult FG attempts, choosing to punt from close in rather than attempting 45- to 50-yarders. Those were largely determined by game circumstances, of course -- no need to kick a FG when you're up 33 in the 4th, and maybe he wants to give Bailey practice with the coffin corner. We'll see what happens in close games when the Pats have 4th and 8 from the opponent's 35.

I'm hoping Nugent is a great replacement, but I'm far from sold. I figure there's a good reason he was out of a job in September.
They'll "protect" him like this all year. I doubt he will line up for a kick longer than 45 yards all year unless it is an end of half / end of game situation. In the playoffs when it is cold they probably won't even send him out there for a 45 yarder. They'll just go for it or have Brady pooch punt. Given how good the D is, pinning opposing offenses inside the 10 can easily lead to points.
 

InstaFace

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Yeah, Nugent is a scrap-heap replacement for a guy whom I've been increasingly less sure about. So far Nugent looks good on PATs, which was becoming an issue for Gost.
I think it's pretty apparent that Ghost's issues in kicking this year were a result of his hip injury, which eventually became surgery-worthy. I'm not sure I'd say PATs were "becoming an issue for Ghost". In the 3 previous seasons since the PAT distance change, he was 46/49, 45/47, and 49/50 last year.
 

joe dokes

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Yeah, Nugent is a scrap-heap replacement for a guy whom I've been increasingly less sure about. So far Nugent looks good on PATs, which was becoming an issue for Gost.

So far, so good on Nugent's FGs, but we don't really know yet. BB seems to "shield" him a bit from difficult FG attempts, choosing to punt from close in rather than attempting 45- to 50-yarders. Those were largely determined by game circumstances, of course -- no need to kick a FG when you're up 33 in the 4th, and maybe he wants to give Bailey practice with the coffin corner. We'll see what happens in close games when the Pats have 4th and 8 from the opponent's 35.

I'm hoping Nugent is a great replacement, but I'm far from sold. I figure there's a good reason he was out of a job in September.
That could also be related to why they tried to amp up the punt coverage team.

EDIT: as tims4twins said firstly.
 

Pandemonium67

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In the 3 previous seasons since the PAT distance change, he was 46/49, 45/47, and 49/50 last year.
Thanks for the stats. I would've thought he'd missed more -- probaby because of recency bias (he missed 4 of 15 PATs this season, though his hip injury was likely a factor, as you pointed out) and because of huge playoff misses, such as in the Atlanta SB and the Denver AFCCG. I like seeing Nugent sail them right down the middle.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I think the problem is that Nugent just doesn't have a strong leg. If he did, my guess is that our punter/holder wouldn't be taking kick offs.

Nugent has very few 50+ attempts in his career -- especially in the last few years -- and he misses the majority of them (17 misses in 30 attempts). I imagine that each game he'll give Judge the outer limit of where he thinks he can be accurate and the team will play accordingly. Weather was pretty much a nonfactor in New York, so I think we're getting a sense of where the line is.
 

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I think that was another reason that BB didn't go for it with Nugent against the Jets on a couple of drives. If he doesn't demonstrate to the opponents that Nugent CAN'T kick the field goals, they the opposing coach has to coach with that as a possibility. If the other team KNOWS he can't hit a particular kick, it might change their aggression/play call on defense.
 

tims4wins

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Thanks for the stats. I would've thought he'd missed more -- probaby because of recency bias (he missed 4 of 15 PATs this season, though his hip injury was likely a factor, as you pointed out) and because of huge playoff misses, such as in the Atlanta SB and the Denver AFCCG. I like seeing Nugent sail them right down the middle.
Can't believe you didn't include both misses in the Eagles SB. Those were really costly.