2019 Pats: General Training Camp Thread

nattysez

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The Jakobi Meyers hype train continues to run unabated. He ran with the ones for the first time today and apparently looked good.

Meyers is one of the guys I'm most looking forward to seeing in action during pre-season. I don't know a damn thing about this kid but he seems to have made quite the impression thus far.
Just came here to say the same thing. And then I discovered that he was a QB when he first arrived at NC State and couldn't help making the Edelman comparison. And then I read this:

Jakobi Meyers projects well as a developmental possession receiver. Meyers is a former quarterback who blossomed in 2018, coming a long way in creating underneath separation and showing strong natural ball skills. Meyers is tough after the catch and his physical style of play works well in tight spaces to win contested targets. Look for Meyers to continue to develop his snap off route stems if he's to be a more impact player at the NFL level.
Ah Jakobi... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGJTaP6anOU
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Pats bringing in another WR


Seems like a good risk to take. Don't really think it says a lot about where they see the WR crew, just think it's good value.
 

RedOctober3829

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Due to his knee recovery, the Patriots signed WR Cameron Meredith and placed him on PUP. He joins Julian Edelman (NFI) and Demaryius Thomas (PUP) amongst veteran wideouts working back to full strength.
--Field Yates
 

Soxy Brown

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I don't really understand what they are doing at running back.
The running back room is going to be some combination of
Michel
Develin
White
Harris
Bolden
Burkhead

But 6 running backs is a lot (call it 5 if you want to exclude the fullback). I'm going to guess that despite his ability to contribute on special teams that Bolden is going to be the odd man out.

But the guy I'm starting to understand less and less is Burkhead. I actually really like the player but I'm suspect of his ability to stay healthy. He has 6 NFL seasons to his credit but his games played by season are; 1, 9, 16, 16, 10, 8. That's a lot of missed games due to injury and he has always been a secondary option or in a time share. It's reasonable to expect him to miss games in 2019. I really like his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield though, in some ways he is White's back up as an option to catch the ball. But reports from training camp are that Michel has been much more involved in the passing game this year. Damien Harris caught 22 balls last year at Alabama, but asking a rookie RB to step into the passing game is a tall order. I also do not believe that Burkhead played on any special team units last year. Basically with Harris added to the team I'm not sure that Burkhead has a role (unless Michel does not progress as a pass catcher, then Rex's role is much more defined).

But Burkhead is entering year 2 of a three year deal. If they cut him they'll only save $500k against the cap but also have to carry $2.5m in dead money.

We know that they value Bolden's contributions on special teams but Burkhead's contract makes is hard to cut him, even if his role is unclear. With a roster crunch coming from their edge players and DBs it seems like carrying 6 RBs isn't going to be feasible, so I'm guessing Bolden is the guy to go.
Pats gave Bolden $2 mil guaranteed in the off-season so I'll be surprised if he doesn't make the team. If there is an odd-man out, it's probably Burkhead. But I also wouldn't be shocked if they kept all six RBs.

When you include special teams, I don't think it's a stretch for them to find roles for all six RBs on gameday. Michel/Harris can split up being primary ball-carriers. White/Burkhead can split up passing downs. Develin does his thing at FB. Bolden and Burkhead both play special teams. Plus, injuries are likely to happen at some point. Keeping all six doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Brady turns 42 tomorrow and his stats declined pretty much across the board last season. Gronk is probably not coming back, at least not this season. Outside of Edelman, James White is basically the only proven, reliable pass catcher on the team (unless you want to include Dorsett, which seems like a stretch). And they can only throw the ball to Edelman so many times, or they'll risk running him into the ground.

In other words, don't be shocked if they run the ball a lot more than they have in the past this season, and save Brady for when they really need him. There's also been some indications during camp that they'll throw to the backs more often this season, which makes sense given their relative weaknesses at WR and TE, compared to the depth they have at RB.
 

Dernells Casket n Flagon

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I think we'll see a lot more of Michel as a pass catcher this season. The scoring report when he came out was that he had good hands and was in the Kamara mold. We know the Patriots bring along their pass catching RBs slowly because of the playbook complexity, (we saw this with Vereen and White) but I'd expect him to increase that load.
 

shoosh77

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Due to his knee recovery, the Patriots signed WR Cameron Meredith and placed him on PUP. He joins Julian Edelman (NFI) and Demaryius Thomas (PUP) amongst veteran wideouts working back to full strength.
--Field Yates
Think he really believed the call to come in? From wiki:

During the 2015 NFL Draft, Meredith was the victim of a prank call, a person pretending to be New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick stating that the team would be taking him with the 97th overall pick; instead, the Patriots took defensive end Geneo Grissom and Meredith went undrafted
 

joe dokes

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Pats gave Bolden $2 mil guaranteed in the off-season so I'll be surprised if he doesn't make the team. If there is an odd-man out, it's probably Burkhead. But I also wouldn't be shocked if they kept all six RBs.

When you include special teams, I don't think it's a stretch for them to find roles for all six RBs on gameday. Michel/Harris can split up being primary ball-carriers. White/Burkhead can split up passing downs. Develin does his thing at FB. Bolden and Burkhead both play special teams. Plus, injuries are likely to happen at some point. Keeping all six doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Brady turns 42 tomorrow and his stats declined pretty much across the board last season. Gronk is probably not coming back, at least not this season. Outside of Edelman, James White is basically the only proven, reliable pass catcher on the team (unless you want to include Dorsett, which seems like a stretch). And they can only throw the ball to Edelman so many times, or they'll risk running him into the ground.

In other words, don't be shocked if they run the ball a lot more than they have in the past this season, and save Brady for when they really need him. There's also been some indications during camp that they'll throw to the backs more often this season, which makes sense given their relative weaknesses at WR and TE, compared to the depth they have at RB.
Not just for all those good reasons, but also because, as defenses havev seeemingly gotten lighter and faster to stop spread offenses, the Patriots developed a successful road-grading offense.
But unlike teams that do that in part because they have Trent Dilfer at QB, NE has a guy that can both call a pass if the defense suddenly gets heavy, and can also execute it.
 

nattysez

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On his offseason weight gain: "I focused on a lot of things, I really did. Every year has its different challenges. I wanted to get a little bigger this year and put on a few more pounds and try to absorb the hits a little more. I worked pretty hard at that. It was good. I still realized when I got here I wanted to be a little more fluid. There's a difference between getting really dense and obviously getting more pliable."
 

Super Nomario

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Pats gave Bolden $2 mil guaranteed in the off-season so I'll be surprised if he doesn't make the team. If there is an odd-man out, it's probably Burkhead. But I also wouldn't be shocked if they kept all six RBs.
Burkhead has more guaranteed money though - $3.5 MM. They actually lose $500K in cap space if they cut him. So I think if it is one guy gone, it's Bolden, though I agree they're likely to keep six.
 

Soxy Brown

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Burkhead has more guaranteed money though - $3.5 MM. They actually lose $500K in cap space if they cut him. So I think if it is one guy gone, it's Bolden, though I agree they're likely to keep six.
I thought they saved like $1-1.5 mil on the cap by cutting or trading Burkhead? Admittedly, I don't have a great grasp of cap stuff. I'm basically relying on memory of either what I read or what someone else told me some time ago. So, I may have no idea what I'm talking about here.

If you're correct, makes it even more likely that they keep all six.
 

Super Nomario

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I thought they saved like $1-1.5 mil on the cap by cutting or trading Burkhead? Admittedly, I don't have a great grasp of cap stuff. I'm basically relying on memory of either what I read or what someone else told me some time ago. So, I may have no idea what I'm talking about here.

If you're correct, makes it even more likely that they keep all six.
They lose $500 K in cap space by cutting Burkhead. But if they trade him, they do clear his $1.5 MM guaranteed salary, so they would save about $1 MM. So that would make sense from a cap perspective. I'm not sure it makes football sense to trade their second- best receiving back in a year with major questions at WR and TE.
 

bsj

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They lose $500 K in cap space by cutting Burkhead. But if they trade him, they do clear his $1.5 MM guaranteed salary, so they would save about $1 MM. So that would make sense from a cap perspective. I'm not sure it makes football sense to trade their second- best receiving back in a year with major questions at WR and TE.
The only reason I could see it possibly making sense is if they think someone else is ready to step up, and they dont want to put their faith in someone with such a ridiculously bad injury history. Dude has missed 14 games in 2 years
 

Shelterdog

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The only reason I could see it possibly making sense is if they think someone else is ready to step up, and they dont want to put their faith in someone with such a ridiculously bad injury history. Dude has missed 14 games in 2 years
Missing 14 games in two years isn't great but it's far from a ridiculous injury history (he'd also played 16 games a year the two years before he came here). Anyhow the smarter play with a good running back who gets hurt sometime is to play them and then if they get hurt replace them with a Nick Brosette off the practice squad.
 

bsj

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Missing 14 games in two years isn't great but it's far from a ridiculous injury history (he'd also played 16 games a year the two years before he came here). Anyhow the smarter play with a good running back who gets hurt sometime is to play them and then if they get hurt replace them with a Nick Brosette off the practice squad.
He also missed 22 game sin his first 2 years in Cinci and is already hurt in camp.

I like him, i'd like to see him hang around, just saying there is a logic to not hitching your wagon to him if they go that route.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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He could be stashed away via IR-R, no? That makes him eligible for return on week 9.

I still am a huge fan of Burkhead despite the injuries. If the numbers really get tight, I'd much rather cut Hoyer than Burkhead.
 

BaseballJones

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They haven't even played a preseason game yet, but I'm curious what people hear think. If the Super Bowl was this Sunday, and it came down to needing the offense to generate a touchdown, or the defense to prevent a touchdown, which unit do you have more confidence in and why? Obviously the last we saw of the Patriots, the defense dominated the game, and yet, the offense put together two scoring drives at the end of that hard-fought contest to win the game.

Who do you trust more in a big spot right now - the offense or defense?
 

BigSoxFan

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They haven't even played a preseason game yet, but I'm curious what people hear think. If the Super Bowl was this Sunday, and it came down to needing the offense to generate a touchdown, or the defense to prevent a touchdown, which unit do you have more confidence in and why? Obviously the last we saw of the Patriots, the defense dominated the game, and yet, the offense put together two scoring drives at the end of that hard-fought contest to win the game.

Who do you trust more in a big spot right now - the offense or defense?
I would probably go defense since the offense, especially the passing game, is a complete unknown right now. They’ll obviously be ok but I trust the D more right now.
 

Harry Hooper

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Until the left tackle situation is resolved, I would lean towards the defense at first blush. However, given the NFL bias towards offense, I would in the end have to trust Brady and co.
 

RedOctober3829

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I've been reading the reports so far from Lions-Pats joint practices and it seems like the Pats receivers are having a good day. The star of the day seems to be Jakobi Myers. N'Keal Harry just made a diving catch on a long bomb down the sideline from Brady who is 13-16 in team drills so far. Evan Lazar(who is a great follow if you don't already) says Harry is a beast in the run game as a blocker. On the defensive side, Shilique Calhoun was getting first team reps and flashed. Stephon Gilmore finally allowed the first catch on him in camp to Danny Amendola.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I haven't been this excited about a high draft pick/UDFA rookie receiving duo since Dobson and Thompkins.

I kid, I kid (mostly). Eager to see these guys on the field.
 

Saints Rest

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They haven't even played a preseason game yet, but I'm curious what people hear think. If the Super Bowl was this Sunday, and it came down to needing the offense to generate a touchdown, or the defense to prevent a touchdown, which unit do you have more confidence in and why? Obviously the last we saw of the Patriots, the defense dominated the game, and yet, the offense put together two scoring drives at the end of that hard-fought contest to win the game.

Who do you trust more in a big spot right now - the offense or defense?
The D.
I saw a series of clips the other day showing "Brady's Top 10 plays from 2018." 9 of the 10 catches were by players who are not on the field today. And 7 of the 10 were by players who presumably won't play all season (1 for Patterson, and 6 by some guy wearing #87). The other three plays were by JE11, James White, and Josh Gordon.
So until we know that Jules, Watson, and Josh are back and/or that Harry, Myers and LaCosse can show up in game situations, I have to vote D.
 

5dice

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I get that people are gone on offense, but I am excited to see what Harry, Meyers, Harris, Berrios can do better than Patterson and, as much as I liked him, the corpse of Chris Hogan last year. And that says nothing of what Harris the RB and a better-at-receiving Michel can do from that position along with White and Rex.
 

streeter88

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Like 5Dice’s point. Receiving corps became a bit limited in options toward end of last season due to decline of Hogan, Gordon stepping away, Gronk influence fading, and gimmickry of Patterson.

Brady will be very excited to have new toys to play with, Edelman will still be reliable, Dorsett may evolve from being “Phil in accounting”, and RBs will continue to be excellent. And if (big if) Gordon can contribute, it will combine to be another heckuva show.

Not saying the defense won’t continue to be solid, but really excited for TB to add to his list of TD receivers. O/U of 75 seems about right.
 

BaseballJones

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Here's the Pats' record without Gronk, since 2010, including playoffs:

2012: 4-1
2013: 7-2
2014: 0-1
2016: 11-0
2017: 1-0
2018: 2-1

Total: 25-5 (.833)

As much as his absence will hurt in all phases, the reality is...they've been just fine without him ever since he joined the team.
 

DrewDawg

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Here's the Pats' record without Gronk, since 2010, including playoffs:

2012: 4-1
2013: 7-2
2014: 0-1
2016: 11-0
2017: 1-0
2018: 2-1

Total: 25-5 (.833)

As much as his absence will hurt in all phases, the reality is...they've been just fine without him ever since he joined the team.
Additionally those were generally times that he was a part of the team and had to adjust on the fly. This time at least they've had an entire offseason to figure it out.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Here's the Pats' record without Gronk, since 2010, including playoffs:

2012: 4-1
2013: 7-2
2014: 0-1
2016: 11-0
2017: 1-0
2018: 2-1

Total: 25-5 (.833)

As much as his absence will hurt in all phases, the reality is...they've been just fine without him ever since he joined the team.
Conversely, the Patriots are 20-11 (.645) since 2014 in games missed by Edelman. I've always maintained the Tom Brady engine has relied much heavier on the slot receivers than Gronk. And, while my love for Gronk knows no bounds, I believe his value is secondary to guys like Welker/Edelman.
 

tims4wins

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Conversely, the Patriots are 20-11 (.645) since 2014 in games missed by Edelman. I've always maintained the Tom Brady engine has relied much heavier on the slot receivers than Gronk. And, while my love for Gronk knows no bounds, I believe his value is secondary to guys like Welker/Edelman.
2015 sure went to hell in a hurry after Edelman got hurt
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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2015 sure went to hell in a hurry after Edelman got hurt
I actually erased that they went 13-3 that season without him. Mainly because I wasn't sure if the injury happening a few weeks before the season gave them better time to prep, how that would relate to Gronk being gone the whole season, and because it didn't agree with the point I was trying to make so I had to twist the facts.
 

tims4wins

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I actually erased that they went 13-3 that season without him. Mainly because I wasn't sure if the injury happening a few weeks before the season gave them better time to prep, how that would relate to Gronk being gone the whole season, and because it didn't agree with the point I was trying to make so I had to twist the facts.
Wrong year. That was 2017. 2015 the Pats were 10-0. They went to 9-0 in the game at the Giants where Edelman broke his hand foot. They won the next week at home, ugly vs. Buffalo. Then they infamously finished 2-4, lost HFA, and lost the AFCCG in Denver.

Edit: I was help trying to prove your point. In 2017, while they did lose Edelman, they had Gronk and Cooks all year.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Wrong year. That was 2017. 2015 the Pats were 10-0. They went to 9-0 in the game at the Giants where Edelman broke his hand. They won the next week at home, ugly vs. Buffalo. Then they infamously finished 2-4, lost HFA, and lost the AFCCG in Denver.

Edit: I was help trying to prove your point. In 2017, while they did lose Edelman, they had Gronk and Cooks all year.
Sorry, was on a work call while I was reading SoSH. Or, I'm dumb.

Or both.
 

Super Nomario

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Wrong year. That was 2017. 2015 the Pats were 10-0. They went to 9-0 in the game at the Giants where Edelman broke his hand foot. They won the next week at home, ugly vs. Buffalo. Then they infamously finished 2-4, lost HFA, and lost the AFCCG in Denver.

Edit: I was help trying to prove your point. In 2017, while they did lose Edelman, they had Gronk and Cooks all year.
I think we have to look at context. As you note, in 2017, they had pieces even without Edelman. In 2015, there was just a mess of injuries. Solder and Lewis were already on IR when Edelman went down. Amendola missed two full games and parts of two others. Dobson went on IR (which doesn't sound like a big deal but involved heavy doses of Keshawn Martin down the stretch). Vollmer missed two games, Kline missed two games (and parts of another), Stork missed a game. Blount went on IR and the run game went all to hell with a battered OL and washed-up Steven Jackson. Even Gronk missed a game.

In short, I'm not sure the right takeaway is "they went 3-4 without Edelman" so much as "the offense sucked down a bunch of guys, including Edelman."
 

Captaincoop

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Is it foolish to be excited about this group of receivers?

Because I am excited. The Pats have needed an injection of youth and playmaking in that group and now...they have it?
 

steveluck7

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Is it foolish to be excited about this group of receivers?

Because I am excited. The Pats have needed an injection of youth and playmaking in that group and now...they have it?
and on cue... N'Keal Harry tweaked his hammy
from Phil Perry
N’Keal Harry grabbed at the back of his right leg and spent some time with trainer Jim Whalen. After sitting out a while — jogging, trying to loosen it up — he worked his way back onto the field for 11-on-11 work and blocked. Haven’t seen him run a route since tweaking his leg.
 

BaseballJones

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and on cue... N'Keal Harry tweaked his hammy
from Phil Perry
N’Keal Harry grabbed at the back of his right leg and spent some time with trainer Jim Whalen. After sitting out a while — jogging, trying to loosen it up — he worked his way back onto the field for 11-on-11 work and blocked. Haven’t seen him run a route since tweaking his leg.
Ouch. Hammies. I assume he'll be out for a couple of days and then be fine.
 

RedOctober3829

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and on cue... N'Keal Harry tweaked his hammy
from Phil Perry
N’Keal Harry grabbed at the back of his right leg and spent some time with trainer Jim Whalen. After sitting out a while — jogging, trying to loosen it up — he worked his way back onto the field for 11-on-11 work and blocked. Haven’t seen him run a route since tweaking his leg.
Megan O'Brien of Pats.com said he participated in the hill runs, so I'm guessing it can't be that bad. Still wouldn't expect him out there tomorrow or Thursday however. Play it safe this early in camp.