2019 Patriots: Post-SB Roster Thread

Super Nomario

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I just meant, I wouldn't rule out Brown returning because of Wynn.
I agree.

That may be the case, but from the very limited info we have (because of the injury) they were at least willing to move Wynn FOR Brown.
I think you're reading too much into Wynn moving rather than Brown - it was the preseason, and Brown needed experience on the left side (because he had mostly played RT in SF) while Wynn needed experience on the right side (because he'd played LT for UGA). Whichever one didn't win LT would be either a) an option at RT if Cannon got / stayed hurt or b) need to back up both LT and RT, so it made sense to give both as much exposure as possible to everything. Moving Wynn *at that time* was the best way to do that. I do agree that it was entirely possible, maybe even probable, that Brown would have beaten Wynn out for the LT job even if Wynn hadn't gotten hurt.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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I like Dorsett but could Amendola be back in NE? The former Pat may be released by the Dolphins:


"Another scoop coming in: sounds like the #Dolphins will be moving on from WR Danny Amendola this offseason. Was up in the air with Chad O’Shea coming in as the OC, but from what I’ve been told it sounds like Chris Grier isn’t interested in letting Dola stay at $6M."

Here are his contract details per Spotrac: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/danny-amendola-5905/

Stat line for 2018: 79 targets, 59 rec, 9.7 per, 573 yards from the scrimmage. Pretty average Dola year and don't see a drop-off, especially when considering Tannehill & Osweiler throwing the ball.

I'd be happy to see him back. Edelman, Dola, Dorsett, Patterson, and perhaps a FA signing or a draft WR (assuming Hogan is out of the picture)?
 

Adrian's Dome

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What does that mean? Dola and Tate?
I wouldn't consider that "loading up."

The Pats have slot options and guys to throw the ball to between the numbers, what they need are better outside options and those two aren't it.

I'd love to take a whack at AJ Green if we're shooting for the moon. Pair him with Dorsett and/or CP and that could be formidable.
 

brandonchristensen

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So what’s Gordon’s deal? Is there no suspension? He missed a year for suspension before right?

Is this year different?
 

Jimbodandy

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I wouldn't consider that "loading up."

The Pats have slot options and guys to throw the ball to between the numbers, what they need are better outside options and those two aren't it.

I'd love to take a whack at AJ Green if we're shooting for the moon. Pair him with Dorsett and/or CP and that could be formidable.
Don't mean to be a putz, but the Pats have been winning Super Bowls with crap outside options forever. Aside from Moss, who has been a great deep threat? Even a good one?

I won't complain if they get a home run guy, but the evidence seems to indicate that they don't "need" one.
 

BigSoxFan

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Don't mean to be a putz, but the Pats have been winning Super Bowls with crap outside options forever. Aside from Moss, who has been a great deep threat? Even a good one?

I won't complain if they get a home run guy, but the evidence seems to indicate that they don't "need" one.
If Gronk retires, I think that all changes. When the Pats needed a big chunk yardage play on the outside against KC, they went to Gronk. When they needed another one in the SB, they went to Gronk again. Every attempt to Hogan in the SB was a dud. Having a guy who can go up and get the ball has proven to be very valuable for this team.

In the regular season, Gordon and Gronk filled this role. Next year, there is a good chance that neither is back. This team has proven they don’t “need” a star outside threat but it certainly would make things a lot easier.

I, for one, am very interested to see what they do, especially if Gronk retires. Hopefully Gordon gets back at some point but you obviously can’t count on him. A guy like AJ Green seems like a pipe dream. Relying on a rookie seems like a 2013 redux waiting to happen. I would not be surprised at all to see an under the radar trade here.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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They had a good outside option in Gordon, but actually improved once he was off the team. Having a good / great outside option is obviously not necessary with this crew...losing Gronk somewhat changes that as they will need “something”, either outside or inside to replace, although I think Gronk returns for one more year.
 

Red Averages

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Mike Reiss on Pats All-Access says he thinks the Pats may load up at WR similar to 07.
Interesting, I was wondering if this would be the case. They have a lot of draft picks to be able to trade, and should have some cap room flexibility. This will be the first year they haven't had to think about RB, and maybe OL as well depending on how they view Wynn.

Actually the more I look into the AJ Green situation, the more I think that could happen. He is a free agent after the 2019 year (I believe), and he is entering the year 31 years old. Seems unlikely he'd ever be around to see the Bengals in the playoffs. Meanwhile, they had Boyd come on strong last year and might prefer a nice draft pick as they build for the future. Boyd is also a free agent in 2020, so likely needs a contract extension this offseason.

Here are the 2020 NFL WR Free Agents. Seems like a good list to isolate if we're looking for guys that could be traded. Guys that stick out to me:

AJ Green, Emmanuel Sanders, DaVante Parker, Travis Benjamin.

I also wonder if BB might make a run at Jack Doyle. Ebron had a huge year for IND, which might help. Doyle was PFFs best blocking tight end, and clearly good at catching the ball as well. He'll be 29 heading into 2019 and a free agent in 2020.
 
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lexrageorge

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I don't believe it's possible to read too much into the media speculation. But I can certainly see the Pats being aggressive in filling the WR spots. Consider:

Edelman will be 33 and takes a ton of hits.
Gordon may or may not come back.
Gronk may retire. If he doesn't retire, he will be 30, with a lot of hard miles on him.
Hogan will be 31, and is really a depth option anyway.
Dorsett hasn't really been able to do a lot since he arrived.
Patterson had 21 catches all season.

If Amendola comes back, he will be 34.

It worked out fine this past season. But I wouldn't count on the team going into the season with the same group.
 

FredJones

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Interesting, I was wondering if this would be the case. They have a lot of draft picks to be able to trade, and should have some cap room flexibility. This will be the first year they haven't had to think about RB, and maybe OL as well depending on how they view Wynn.

Someone mentioned AJ Green before. What other WR might be traded?
AJ Green is in the sweet spot of age (31), contract status (entering his final year), and dead money (not much). If Mike Brown doesn't intend to extend a 32-year old Green, he may be open to trading him.

I think Emmanuel Sanders may be available for similar reasons, especially if the Broncos don't feel like they'll be competing for a while.

Laquon Treadwell of the Vikings is a possible reclamation project. Adam Thielen's contract is surprisingly tradeable, though the Vikings would be nuts to follow through.

Demaryius Thomas is another possible target, but I'm not sure the Texans would be willing to deal unless they intend to release him anyway.
 

BigSoxFan

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Interesting, I was wondering if this would be the case. They have a lot of draft picks to be able to trade, and should have some cap room flexibility. This will be the first year they haven't had to think about RB, and maybe OL as well depending on how they view Wynn.

Someone mentioned AJ Green before. What other WR might be traded?

Actually the more I look into the AJ Green situation, the more I think that could happen. He is a free agent after the 2019 year (I believe), and he is entering the year 31 years old. Seems unlikely he'd ever be around to see the Bengals in the playoffs. Meanwhile, they had Boyd come on strong last year and might prefer a nice draft pick as they build for the future.
Green is definitely a situation worth watching. I mentioned Woods earlier but that is unlikely. Thielen is another guy who’s playing on an absolute bargain contract so he’s off limits like Woods. Brown is obviously a non-starter.

I just don’t see too many realistic high impact options. I think we’re looking at the draft and some low cost vet trades / signings.
 

FredJones

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I think Baldwin is another sleeper option who might be available for the right price.
 

Red Averages

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I was editing my post, but a few people responded to it after, so I'll paste this in below...

Actually the more I look into the AJ Green situation, the more I think that could happen. He is a free agent after the 2019 year (I believe), and he is entering the year 31 years old. Seems unlikely he'd ever be around to see the Bengals in the playoffs. Meanwhile, they had Boyd come on strong last year and might prefer a nice draft pick as they build for the future. Boyd is also a free agent in 2020, so likely needs a contract extension this offseason.

Here are the 2020 NFL WR Free Agents. Seems like a good list to isolate if we're looking for guys that could be traded. Guys that stick out to me:

AJ Green, Emmanuel Sanders, DaVante Parker, Travis Benjamin.

I also wonder if BB might make a run at Jack Doyle. Ebron had a huge year for IND, which might help. Doyle was PFFs best blocking tight end, and clearly good at catching the ball as well. He'll be 29 heading into 2019 and a free agent in 2020. He'd be fantastic to pair with Gronk in a year where, if he comes back, it's likely we get a watered down Gronk in the regular season. Would cause huge matchup issues if they could roll out a Doyle/Gronk/Develin offense.
 

BigSoxFan

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AJ Green is in the sweet spot of age (31), contract status (entering his final year), and dead money (not much). If Mike Brown doesn't intend to extend a 32-year old Green, he may be open to trading him.

I think Emmanuel Sanders may be available for similar reasons, especially if the Broncos don't feel like they'll be competing for a while.

Laquon Treadwell of the Vikings is a possible reclamation project. Adam Thielen's contract is surprisingly tradeable, though the Vikings would be nuts to follow through.

Demaryius Thomas is another possible target, but I'm not sure the Texans would be willing to deal unless they intend to release him anyway.
Problem with Thomas and Sanders is they’re both down with a torn Achilles. At their respective ages, heavy odds are against them ever being impact WRs again.
 

bigq

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Don't mean to be a putz, but the Pats have been winning Super Bowls with crap outside options forever. Aside from Moss, who has been a great deep threat? Even a good one?
Cooks was pretty good in that role but aside from that there hasn’t been a whole lot of outstanding talent. LaFell had one decent season on the outside but he wasn’t really a deep threat. Same goes for Malcolm Mitchell. Brandon Lloyd had one decent season for the Pats and I think he mostly played on the outside and his season did not end with a Super Bowl victory.
 
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FredJones

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Problem with Thomas and Sanders is they’re both down with a torn Achilles. At their respective ages, heavy odds are against them ever being impact WRs again.
Ah, I completely forgot about their injuries. Yes then I'd agree that they're not viable trade targets.

Speaking of recently injured receivers, what about Allen Hurns? Showed some potential several years ago in Jacksonville, but hasn't done much up until now. His year in Dallas wasn't going well even before he went on IR.
 

BigSoxFan

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Ah, I completely forgot about their injuries. Yes then I'd agree that they're not viable trade targets.

Speaking of recently injured receivers, what about Allen Hurns? Showed some potential several years ago in Jacksonville, but hasn't done much up until now. His year in Dallas wasn't going well even before he went on IR.
That was such a nasty injury that it’s hard to count on him for next season as well. Looking through the league, not many teams have a surplus of impact guys.
 

FredJones

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That was such a nasty injury that it’s hard to count on him for next season as well. Looking through the league, not many teams have a surplus of impact guys.
Both Schefter and the doctor-who-shall-not-be-named have claimed he's likely to be ready by August. I guess that precludes him from partaking in OTAs, but I think he remains an option.
 

Seels

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I feel like with very so rare exceptions 30 is kind of a death sentence for WR. I know Edelman just did amazing shit over the last few weeks as a 33 year old, but the only way I really want in on 31 year old AJ Green on a team that has many other big needs is if he's coming for a third or less.

Green is a great player but an extremely temporary fix. But then hey maybe that's the point when your quarterback is 42.
 

EddieYost

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Cooks was pretty good in that role but aside from that there hasn’t been a whole lot of outstanding talent. LaFell had one decent season on the outside but he wasn’t really a deep threat. Same goes for Malcolm Mitchell. Greg Lloyd had one decent season for the Pats and I think he mostly played on the outside and his season did not end with a Super Bowl victory.
Brandon Lloyd. I had to look it up. I don’t really remember him being on the team, but he had a big year.
 

EddieYost

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Oh yeah. I think I blended him and Brandon Lafell into one player.
 

bigq

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Brandon Lloyd. I had to look it up. I don’t really remember him being on the team, but he had a big year.
Crap that’s right it’s Brandon not Greg. Think I may have been getting him mixed up with this guy. Can’t believe they let him wear #86 after Morgan. Speaking of Stanley Morgan, now there was a great outside deep threat.
 

Adrian's Dome

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Don't mean to be a putz, but the Pats have been winning Super Bowls with crap outside options forever. Aside from Moss, who has been a great deep threat? Even a good one?

I won't complain if they get a home run guy, but the evidence seems to indicate that they don't "need" one.
And the one year they had an elite outside option Brady broke damn near every standing record and came within a ballhair of a perfect season, lost on the biggest fluke in NFL history.

Nobody said they "needed" anything, by the way.
 

Ed Hillel

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I think Baldwin is another sleeper option who might be available for the right price.
The guy nobody talks about/knows who would be a perfect fit is Adam Humphries from Tampa Bay. Slot receiver who had 80 catches this year with Famous Jameis throwing him the ball. Plus he’s an undrafted white guy, so helps keep the reputation going. It almost has to happen.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HumpAd00.htm

I think they’ll also go after an outside guy like Baldwin and get Gordon back week 5 or 7 or whatever.
My guess had been Mike Evans as a an unexpected trade target, but his cap hit for TB would be awful if cut or traded.
But I think we may see a trade.
Great player, but BB ain’t paying 20 million to a WR next season. His contract is almost untradeable...which means the Jets will send them a 2nd for him.
 
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Super Nomario

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I think they’ll also go after an outside guy like Baldwin and get Gordon back week 5 or 7 or whatever.
Nitpick, but Baldwin is mostly a slot guy. Less nitpicky: even if they get Gordon back then, they just cannot count on him to stay on the field very long.

Cooks was pretty good in that role but aside from that there hasn’t been a whole lot of outstanding talent. LaFell had one decent season on the outside but he wasn’t really a deep threat. Same goes for Malcolm Mitchell. Greg Lloyd had one decent season for the Pats and I think he mostly played on the outside and his season did not end with a Super Bowl victory.
Historically they've had mismatch weapons elsewhere and so they've just needed the X receiver to keep the defense honest. Guys like LaFell and Mitchell and Hogan were fine for that, but we saw in the Super Bowl that Hogan (and frankly, throughout the season) isn't really at that level anymore.

The question beyond that is, looking forward to a post-Gronk and maybe, at age 33, a post-Edelman world, do the Patriots need more out of their X receiver? I think the Cooks acquisition was something of a nod to that idea, but then they got rid of Cooks after a season. I don't think they'll ever be in the business of paying $15-$20 MM to a prototypical X, but they might need more out of the X if they're not getting what they're accustomed to out of the TE and slot.
 

Ed Hillel

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Nitpick, but Baldwin is mostly a slot guy. Less nitpicky: even if they get Gordon back then, they just cannot count on him to stay on the field very long.
I agree, which is why I anticipate they’ll add another few guys in addition to him. I’m honestly surprised Bill reportedly wants anything to do with him. I suppose if it’s cheap, but he’s still taking someone else’s time from learning the offense/reps with Brady. If he gets booted again late, it’s nearly impossible to get someone up to speed, especially if it’s his first year in the system.
 

FredJones

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I love how this season's roster thread is full of hope and wonderment and joy instead of bitterness and dissatisfaction.
 

E5 Yaz

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Brandon Lloyd. I had to look it up. I don’t really remember him being on the team, but he had a big year.
All I remember about Brandon Lloyd was the penalty he got for giving the ball to the ref too forcefully
 

Buck Showalter

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I would not be surprised to see Hogan play for the Jets or Giants next year. His family lives on Long Island full-time, went to school in NJ, and has been commuting back and forth for the last couple years.
Agreed.

Wife is a doctor on Long Island and just starting in the field.

Long Island will be home.....plus, I can see him in media post-playing career.
 

bigq

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I would not be surprised to see Hogan play for the Jets or Giants next year. His family lives on Long Island full-time, went to school in NJ, and has been commuting back and forth for the last couple years.
I was about to say it wouldn’t be much of a loss because his contributions were minimal this past season but then I looked up his stats and his numbers for 2018 were pretty similar to what they were the previous two seasons. I guess he is what he is - a fourth or fifth option depth piece.
 

Jimbodandy

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And the one year they had an elite outside option Brady broke damn near every standing record and came within a ballhair of a perfect season, lost on the biggest fluke in NFL history.

Nobody said they "needed" anything, by the way.
I wouldn't consider that "loading up."

The Pats have slot options and guys to throw the ball to between the numbers, what they need are better outside options and those two aren't it.

I'd love to take a whack at AJ Green if we're shooting for the moon. Pair him with Dorsett and/or CP and that could be formidable.
I'll be psyched if they get a guy who can take off the top, at the right price, with the right approach/attitude. But they don't need one. Never have.
 

Adrian's Dome

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I'll be psyched if they get a guy who can take off the top, at the right price, with the right approach/attitude. But they don't need one. Never have.
That was in reply to the prospect of signing Tate and Amendola. THOSE players are what the Pats don't "need" as they already have good options between the numbers (as stated.) Squabble over the context for as long as you'd like.
 

Jimbodandy

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That was in reply to the prospect of signing Tate and Amendola. THOSE players are what the Pats don't "need" as they already have good options between the numbers (as stated.) Squabble over the context for as long as you'd like.
If I read that wrong, I apologize. Seemed like you were saying that they need outside options. I don't think that they do. I agree that one would be nice though. There are many ways to make this omelet, as their record has shown.
 

BigJimEd

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The guy nobody talks about/knows who would be a perfect fit is Adam Humphries from Tampa Bay. Slot receiver who had 80 catches this year with Famous Jameis throwing him the ball. Plus he’s an undrafted white guy, so helps keep the reputation going. It almost has to happen.
Mentioned him earlier. Be an excellent fit but might end up being expensive
 

jablo1312

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I don't see any reason the Seahawks would trade Baldwin with 2 years left on a deal that isn't a bargain but isn't outrageous. Obviously same with Thielen in Minny.

Tyrell Williams is going to get paid, I'd be shocked if they brought him in. Humphries will get less money but still a size-able contract, and the Pats aren't dripping in space.

If they feel good about Edelman coming back (all indications show that they are) I'd be surprised if they pursued Golden Tate, who probably is a bit more of a downfield threat then Edelman but nominally fills a similar role and will have a market (probably like 2 year 16 million).

Belichick has raved about Green in the past, but unless they work out a trade and extension its difficult to see them carrying Green at a $14 million cap hit next year with Gronkowski on the roster. W/o him who knows if the Bengals want to trade him and what his market would look like.

Honestly an Amendola return makes a ton of sense, especially as he provides a modicum of Edelman-injury insurance and has shown he can execute the offense at a high level. No idea what his markets going to be either like but have to imagine it'll be lower then everyone i've listed thus far.

Other then that, there's a lot of flotsam out there. Could see them bring in a failed high draft picks again (Kevin White, Breshad Perriman, or just keep Dorsett). Maybe they monitor the injured guys (Bryant, D. Thomas, Sanders) and take fliers on ones that are the most recovered. Doubt they'll be interested in relying heavily on 30+ year olds coming off devastating lower body injuries though, but given the sheer number of old receivers they've brought into camp over the past decade I wouldn't be surprised to see one of them in Foxborough next August. If 87 comes back it will probably end up as someone that everyone is complaining about midway through next season (Cody Latimer, Chris Conley, Dontrelle Inman, or someone equally uninspiring), if not I have no idea what's going to happen as they'll need to restructure the offense to some degree.

Bummer that Mitchell's knees are paper mache he'd be providing exactly what they'll look for at a tiny cost if he was still on the roster.
 

genoasalami

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The guy nobody talks about/knows who would be a perfect fit is Adam Humphries from Tampa Bay. Slot receiver who had 80 catches this year with Famous Jameis throwing him the ball. Plus he’s an undrafted white guy, so helps keep the reputation going. It almost has to happen.

I've been watching him the past few years here in Tampa and have lost count of the number of times I've said BB/Brady would make him a star.
 

Ed Hillel

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Mentioned him earlier. Be an excellent fit but might end up being expensive
It will take a fundamental change in the way team’s value slot receivers on the open market to keep him from New England, but I think we might actually be there with Edelman’s spotlight. We’ll see, I hope nobody else values him too much.

Beasley and maybe Amendola are other options, of course.
 

McBride11

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AJ Green is a 15m (12m sal +3m bonus proration) cap hit in his final season of contract. Aged 31. Bengals look to be rebuilding (or at least think they would with improving Browns, strong Ravens, and Steelers).
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/a.j.-green-7719/


Julio Jones is a 13.5m cap hit (9.5m salary + 2m bonus) entering second to last season of contract. Aged 30. Not sure what to make of the Falcons. 7-9 in their division last year, NO looks to win again, who knows about Carolina and TB. But they drafted Calvin Ridley. There are rumblings Jones may want out (and gotta get that ring). Longer shot but if ATL decides they want to start fresh on the outside may be an option.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/julio-jones-7721/

Green seems like a feasible option, use the plethora of draft picks.
 

DrewDawg

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Pats expected to add Mick Lombardi to staff. Yes, Michael Lombardi's kid.

He was with the Pats in 2011/12, and was with the Jets the last few seasons.
 

BaseballJones

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Texans are going to cut Demaryius Thomas. He's coming off a torn achilles, and I have no idea how long that will take for him to be healthy. But assuming that drives his price down, might he be worth picking up? The Pats were obviously interested in him at the trade deadline (pre-injury).
 

BigSoxFan

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Texans are going to cut Demaryius Thomas. He's coming off a torn achilles, and I have no idea how long that will take for him to be healthy. But assuming that drives his price down, might he be worth picking up? The Pats were obviously interested in him at the trade deadline (pre-injury).
I think he would be a fine candidate for the 2019 “vet whose signing I get excited about but who then gets cut 1 week later” award.

In all seriousness, I would hope we kick the tires on him but doubt he’d be of much use after that injury and considering his age.