2019 Patriots: Post-SB Roster Thread

mcpickl

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Pretty obvious he picked guys who were not "critical" or team captains or whatever - his point that cutting some mid tier guys doesn't get you anywhere, so why do it?

This whole argument is dumb. It was pretty clear what he was trying to say. The Pats are up against it cap wise and without a major move like a retirement or big time cut, they don't have much wiggle room. Is it that controversial or hard to understand?
Nope this part isn't hard to understand, which is why I didn't question this whatsoever.
 

rodderick

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I guess not any more.

Maybe replace it with 'Jordy Nelson'?
Nah, pining for an unproven player because the Pats are sitting the early days of free agency out and the best options have come off the board is way more representative of the fan experience in this period (not questioning their MO, just pointing out we go through this dance pretty much every year).
 

dcmissle

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http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/2019-patriots-post-sb-roster-thread.26166/page-17#post-3310595

"I should have been more clear. the intent of my post was to demonstrate the cap constraints the team has. Cutting those 5 guys would "only" net a max of $11 million (less, as pointed out in subsequent posts thanks to the rule of 51). I wasn't advocating getting rid of them. I just picked non-star players making "real" money who would provide "real" cap savings if cut"
Useless exercise.

Name who you would sign with these machinations. If you are proposing a trade, name a plausible trade partner and target.

You don’t do this crap for its own sake, which only feeds Felgerism.
 

DavidTai

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Nah, pining for an unproven player because the Pats are sitting the early days of free agency out and the best options have come off the board is way more representative of the fan experience in this period (not questioning their MO, just pointing out we go through this dance pretty much every year).
I've stopped expecting big-name free agents loooong ago.

Now it's just kinda more like 'who's likely to be underpaid for what they bring to the table?'

Stephon Gilmore is the biggest 'wtf, really?' I've ever had.

Now I'm just wondering what's next... for example, could Sterling Shepard be had from the Giants now that they have Tate?
 

dcmissle

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Nelson — 15 games, 63 catches, 740 yards and 3 TDs. For the Raiders. Who cut him yes but also massively upgraded the position this week.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I've stopped expecting big-name free agents loooong ago.

Now it's just kinda more like 'who's likely to be underpaid for what they bring to the table?'

Stephon Gilmore is the biggest 'wtf, really?' I've ever had.

Now I'm just wondering what's next... for example, could Sterling Shepard be had from the Giants now that they have Tate?
In the context of the rest of their offseason to this point, the Beckham trade looks more like a "We think we're not that far off but we just can't stand this guy anymore" move than a "blow it up" move. Like the Bruins' trade of Tyler Seguin, except the B's had a better argument for being a good team with or without him. If that is correct then I don't see Shepard being available.
 

Soxy Brown

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I've stopped expecting big-name free agents loooong ago.

Now it's just kinda more like 'who's likely to be underpaid for what they bring to the table?'
I have no idea if this is the case with Ellington and/or Harris but a common thread with a lot of these younger, less known FAs that the Pats bring in is that NE liked them coming out of college. They get drafted somewhere else and, for whatever reason, don't get very many opportunities up to this point in their careers. Seems like the Pats like those kind of guys and generally feel comfortable bringing them in for cheap money, giving them a blank slate, and just seeing how it goes. It's a decent, inexpensive way to acquire potentially undervalued assets.
 

SMU_Sox

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I have no idea if this is the case with Ellington and/or Harris but a common thread with a lot of these younger, less known FAs that the Pats bring in is that NE liked them coming out of college. They get drafted somewhere else and, for whatever reason, don't get very many opportunities up to this point in their careers. Seems like the Pats like those kind of guys and generally feel comfortable bringing them in for cheap money, giving them a blank slate, and just seeing how it goes. It's a decent, inexpensive way to acquire potentially undervalued assets.
Finished Michael Lombardi's Gridiron Genius which I recommend finding used and reading. It might take you 5-6 hours tops to get through it. But this is one of the things that good organizations like the Patriots do.
 

steveluck7

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Useless exercise.

Name who you would sign with these machinations. If you are proposing a trade, name a plausible trade partner and target.

You don’t do this crap for its own sake, which only feeds Felgerism.
I’ll chime back in here as it was my post that set this whole odd tangent off.
It wasn’t an exercise in “who could they cut to free up space?” It was an illustration of “even jettisoning 4 contributors/ rotational guys (and Hoyer only nets this much space.”
My apologies again for not being more clear
 

dcmissle

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There is a middle ground between expecting these guys to be major contributors and mocking them. Mo Harris belongs in that middle ground.
 

singaporesoxfan

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I too have often wondered why Brady wouldn't say "I've made $300M in my career, my wife brings in $30M/year, a few million in salary means nothing to me. But adding a 7th or 8th Super Bowl would be worth every penny I give up. So, Bill, put me down for the vet minimum and spend the rest on whatever you think is best to add more RINGS to my world!"
I know the union would freak out, but is there anything they can do?
Why would Brady need to take any less than he gets now? It’s not like his salary is hindering them from winning Super Bowls
 

dcmissle

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It’s fascinating to watch these small positional moves on the chessboard. It’s even more fascinating that the four-letter heads, masters of the big bold strokes, are fascinated.
 

cornwalls@6

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My barometer for the Pats in free agency: If Felger and Mazz think it's a disaster, Bill is on the right track. And these modest, low risk/decent potential upside moves have them apoplectic. So, good off season to this point.
 

rodderick

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My barometer for the Pats in free agency: If Felger and Mazz think it's a disaster, Bill is on the right track. And these modest, low risk/decent potential upside moves have them apoplectic. So, good off season to this point.
I don't understand why people are upset. They lost two players of any significance: Flowers and Brown. As direct replacements, they have Michael Bennett and a first round pick OT in Wynn, which is probably as well as you could do to fill those roles without spending a shit ton of money. Last offseason was way, way, waaaay more concerning and they still won the Super Bowl, despite losing a lot of key starters.
 

koufax32

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I don't understand why people are upset. They lost two players of any significance: Flowers and Brown. As direct replacements, they have Michael Bennett and a first round pick OT in Wynn, which is probably as well as you could do to fill those roles without spending a shit ton of money. Last offseason was way, way, waaaay more concerning and they still won the Super Bowl, despite losing a lot of key starters.
A first round pick that they have real, in house data on from before and after his injury. Scar and BB seem cool with the idea.
 

cornwalls@6

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I don't understand why people are upset. They lost two players of any significance: Flowers and Brown. As direct replacements, they have Michael Bennett and a first round pick OT in Wynn, which is probably as well as you could do to fill those roles without spending a shit ton of money. Last offseason was way, way, waaaay more concerning and they still won the Super Bowl, despite losing a lot of key starters.
I agree completely. We go through this drill every year, it seems like. Other teams go on spending sprees for the big shiny things in the window, they hold steady, re-sign some key guys, and try to pluck value after the dust clears from the first couple of days of free agency, with the exception of shut down corners (Revis, Gilmore). Roster building is a multi-faceted project(initial free agency, the draft, trades, available June cuts, camp cuts, etc.). And every year, they work the entire process to field a super bowl contender once the season starts. Believing they will do the same this year isn't mindless, in Bill we trust, hero worship. It's using 19 years worth of evidence to draw a reasonable, probable conclusion.
 
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rodderick

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I agree completely. We go through this drill every yer, it seems like. Other teams go on spending sprees for the big shiny things in the window, they hold steady, re-sign some key guys, and try to pluck value after the dust clears from the first couple of days of free agency, with the exception of shut down corners (Revis, Gilmore). Roster building is a multi-faceted project(initial free agency, the draft, trades, available June cuts, camp cuts, etc.). And every year, they work the entire process to field a super bowl contender once the season starts. Believing they will do the same this year isn't mindless, in Bill we trust, hero worship. It's using 19 years worth of evidence to draw a reasonable, probable conclusion.
But I'm not even saying that. I think there have been offseasons where worry was warranted like 2006, 2013 and even 2018, where they lost a lot of contributors and didn't do much to replace them through free agency. That's not even the case this year. You may believe they haven't gotten better, but they still aren't done in the market, have the most picks in the draft, and I'd argue the team isn't even worse than it was last year.
 

cornwalls@6

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But I'm not even saying that. I think there have been offseasons where worry was warranted like 2006, 2013 and even 2018, where they lost a lot of contributors and didn't do much to replace them through free agency. That's not even the case this year. You may believe they haven't gotten better, but they still aren't done in the market, have the most picks in the draft, and I'd argue the team isn't even worse than it was last year.
I guess my worry level wasn't that high in those years, at least 2013 and 2018. Because of, by then, their well established modus operandi. And the knowledge that as long as they had TB and BB, they would likely be able to fill in enough parts around them to contend.
 

rodderick

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I guess my worry level wasn't that high in those years, at least 2013 and 2018. Because of, by then, their well established modus operandi. And the knowledge that as long as they had TB and BB, they would likely be able to fill in enough parts around them to contend.
I'm a nancy (I have to actively avoid gamethreads because I'm one of those "oh great, the defense fucking sucks again" after one 15 yard completion allowed types), but last year I was convinced they had very little talent and would finally have a down season. Shows what I know.
 
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Why would that interior DL cancel out the comp pick we will get for the Trent Brown loss? Aren't the comp picks based on salary more than anything?
 

cornwalls@6

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I'm a nancy (I have to actively avoid gamethreads because I'm one of those "oh great, the defense fucking sucks again" after one 15 yard completion allowed types), but last year I was convinced they had very little talent and would finally have a down season. Shows what I know.
Oh, I hear you. There’s 2 of me. In- game me is a puddle. Between games me is maybe slightly more rational.
 

Archer1979

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I'm a nancy (I have to actively avoid gamethreads because I'm one of those "oh great, the defense fucking sucks again" after one 15 yard completion allowed types), but last year I was convinced they had very little talent and would finally have a down season. Shows what I know.
And... let's not forget that they have a shit-ton of draft picks this year.