2019 Patriots: Post-SB Roster Thread

BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
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Just get Tate already.

Edelman
Tate
Dorsett
Draft pick
Cheap vet
Gordon

That’s all we need,
That would be a fantastic WR corps, especially if Gordon was able to stick around all year (not likely but still). I mean, they just won the Super Bowl with Edelman, an invisible Hogan, Dorsett, and Patterson, and not much else.
 

DeadlySplitter

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the Steelers are a tire fire, he might take a bit less to come here. if he cares about that, Humphries seemed not to prioritize winning if we really bumped up the offer that much.
 

Mystic Merlin

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the Steelers are a tire fire, he might take a bit less to come here. if he cares about that, Humphries seemed not to prioritize winning if we really bumped up the offer that much.
Part if it might be he already orally committed to the Titans at that point.

Doesn’t mean what, say, Anthony Barr did was beyond the pale, but I get it.
 

InstaFace

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You are prepared to evaluate the JG trade after one season? In which he did not play because he was injured?
You're arguing that we need to wait to see how SF did in the trade (i.e., how Garoppolo performs) to evaluate what the Patriots ended up getting in return for our backup QB?

I mostly was just glad to proclaim the Dorsett trade a success, just because the odds of that seemed so remote back in 2017. We now know that the Jimmy G trade was harder for BB than even we appreciated at the time, so I'm certainly anxious to see the extent to which his sentimentality got the better of him ("...that one time!")
 

DrewDawg

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Tate expected to choose between NE and PIT today.

I cant fathom where the Pats are even finding the money to make this competitive
They have $12 million according to Miguel. Sign Tate then they can rework some guys to create what they need for draft.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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They have $12 million according to Miguel. Sign Tate then they can rework some guys to create what they need for draft.
They don't need much for the draft. They need money to start the season though. September 1 is when the rule of 51 goes away and all your practice players start to count.

With the signings yesterday, they don't have much room. They'd have to give Tate a big signing bonus and postpone most of the money to future years. Still, just looking at some of the deals, it's going to be at least $6 million or so next year unless they get really creative. Also, they lose a comp pick. My guess is that this isn't going to happen, but if it does, there must be something going on behind the scenes on a restructure or something that we don't know about.

Do you think there's any chance that Brady is getting ready to do something crazy? I mean, if the guy came out and said, "I'll play for $10 million a year in 2020 and 2021 if you give me a no trade clause" or something like that, all of the sudden, the Patriots can do anything. But I can't believe he would actually do that. He's a $28 million player. But, who knows? If he decides this team is his best chance for whatever he has left then maybe he just says "fuck it, I have enough money." His agent would never go for it and the league would lose its mind but it's kind of a very special circumstance and maybe, just maybe?
 

TheoShmeo

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Perhaps he was just trying to scare up interest but Tate’s comments as reported by Reiss give me some hope that he will choose NE.

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4816959/golden-tate-would-welcome-chance-to-catch-passes-from-tommy-boy

Money quotes:

“I would love it. That organization, they've proven to be champions year-in and year-out," Tate said on the Prostyle Podcast with former NFL receiver Earl Bennett. "They work hard, for sure. But you know where you're going to be at the end of the season; you're going to be looking at not [only] going to the playoffs, but maybe a first-round bye. You got to admire that organization. They do things right and they've been doing it for a long, long, long time.

"So I'd definitely love to be a part of something like that, and definitely catch a few passes from old Tommy Boy."
 

DrewDawg

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With the signings yesterday, they don't have much room. They'd have to give Tate a big signing bonus and postpone most of the money to future years. Still, just looking at some of the deals, it's going to be at least $6 million or so next year unless they get really creative.
I thought Miguel's cap numbers reflected those signings. Is that not the case? If that's the case, and we don't need a lot for the draft, Tate getting $6M isn't a killer.
 

DrewDawg

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They don't need much for the draft. They need money to start the season though. September 1 is when the rule of 51 goes away and all your practice players start to count.

With the signings yesterday, they don't have much room. They'd have to give Tate a big signing bonus and postpone most of the money to future years. Still, just looking at some of the deals, it's going to be at least $6 million or so next year unless they get really creative.
I thought Miguel's numbers reflected the signings. Is that not the case?

If they do, and have $12M plus, how is Tate's $6M a problem? What else are they saving for besides the draft? They were trying to fit Humphries in and I think he's getting more than Tate will.

EDIT: I guess Dorsett's amount hasn't been announced yet...
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Breaking: Golden Tate expected to finalize deal with #Patriots.

As I reported Sunday, he met with #Steelers and they we’re back up option but chose New England. #Cowboys also showed some interest.
That guy has less than 500 Twitter followers...calls himself the premier Pittsburgh handicapper and sports insider...I will wait for better confirmation before a get too excited.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I thought Miguel's numbers reflected the signings. Is that not the case?
Miguel's 12.3m number does not include Dorsett, McCourty, Bolden or Simon.

What else are they saving for besides the draft?
They need $2.8 to $3.0 million for the draft if they keep their current spots. They will also need to start the season with at least $5 million. This is a point that people don't really appreciate this time of the year when they see all the numbers about how much teams have. The off season cap is different from the season cap. Right now, the cap only includes your top 51 players. During the season, your cap includes your entire 53-man roster and your practice squad and your PUP and IR players. So, you know, if a player goes on IR and you need to replace him with a $700,000 player you need $700,000 in cap room. So, you usually try to start the season with at least $5 or $6 million give or take and then whatever you have left carries over.
 

rodderick

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Tate seems like a perfect fit for the Patriots offense. I have a feeling the Pats believe Gordon will play next year, but I'd still like them to target an outside receiver just to be sure.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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He says it is updated as of 2 hours ago?


ICYMI - My current Patriots salary cap space number is $12,386,721. It accounts for the Jones/Gordon RFA tenders and the Bennett trade. Does not yet account for the Dorsett, Bolden, McCourty and Simon signings. Why? Do not have yet the details of the deals.
 

Ed Hillel

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Miguel's 12.3m number does not include Dorsett, McCourty, Bolden or Simon.



They need $2.8 to $3.0 million for the draft if they keep their current spots. They will also need to start the season with at least $5 million. This is a point that people don't really appreciate this time of the year when they see all the numbers about how much teams have. The off season cap is different from the season cap. Right now, the cap only includes your top 51 players. During the season, your cap includes your entire 53-man roster and your practice squad and your PUP and IR players. So, you know, if a player goes on IR and you need to replace him with a $700,000 player you need $700,000 in cap room. So, you usually try to start the season with at least $5 or $6 million give or take and then whatever you have left carries over.
Again, they will still pretty easily be able to create at least 10 million in cap space, probably more. They clearly have some money to work with, based on their actions.

I’m gonna guess that Simon deal is basically a 1 year deal extended out to spread his small bonus.
 

Super Nomario

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They need $2.8 to $3.0 million for the draft if they keep their current spots. They will also need to start the season with at least $5 million. This is a point that people don't really appreciate this time of the year when they see all the numbers about how much teams have. The off season cap is different from the season cap. Right now, the cap only includes your top 51 players. During the season, your cap includes your entire 53-man roster and your practice squad and your PUP and IR players. So, you know, if a player goes on IR and you need to replace him with a $700,000 player you need $700,000 in cap room. So, you usually try to start the season with at least $5 or $6 million give or take and then whatever you have left carries over.
This sort of thing usually resolves itself though, right? Like, they draft a kid at a position they have a higher-priced vet at, and they decide to trade / cut the vet on the final day and clear up a couple million. Last year they saved $1.5 MM cutting Marquis Flowers and $2.5 MM cutting Mike Gilllislee. I'd be interested to see what the cap space typically is when they start the preseason versus the opening day roster.
 

RedOctober3829

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This sort of thing usually resolves itself though, right? Like, they draft a kid at a position they have a higher-priced vet at, and they decide to trade / cut the vet on the final day and clear up a couple million. Last year they saved $1.5 MM cutting Marquis Flowers and $2.5 MM cutting Mike Gilllislee. I'd be interested to see what the cap space typically is when they start the preseason versus the opening day roster.
Doesn't Bill usually keep about $4-$6 million at a minimum for in-season moves?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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This sort of thing usually resolves itself though, right? Like, they draft a kid at a position they have a higher-priced vet at, and they decide to trade / cut the vet on the final day and clear up a couple million. Last year they saved $1.5 MM cutting Marquis Flowers and $2.5 MM cutting Mike Gilllislee. I'd be interested to see what the cap space typically is when they start the preseason versus the opening day roster.
Yes, right -- there will be natural attrition that will result in cap savings which are different from moves deliberately designed to save cap space (like restructures). But I think still it isn't exactly neutral for most teams and there are no obvious cuts on the Patriots. I haven't followed it too closely. But, yeah, definitely, there will be some netting out. Also, you start the year with a contingency plan that assumes a worst case. If you end up bringing in a $700,000 player to replace an injured player in week 10 it affects your cap differently than if you do it in week 1, etc. If the Patriots get through free agency and rookie signings without being in a hole they will find a way. The bottom line, though, is that right now you're looking at 51 players and in a few months you're looking at 53 players plus the practice squad.

Again, they will still pretty easily be able to create at least 10 million in cap space, probably more. They clearly have some money to work with, based on their actions.

I’m gonna guess that Simon deal is basically a 1 year deal extended out to spread his small bonus.
I'll just throw out my wild ass guesses on cap effect of the four signings from yesterday. Again, this is just rank speculation just to go on record and see how I do when they are announced. These are strictly cap effects for 2019 without regard to actual salary or future years and are net of the savings due to rule of 51. Bolden $400,000. Dorsett $1,400,000. McCourty $1,800,000. Simon $2,000,000. So, I'm saying a cap number remaining around 6.7 million.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Clayborn seems pretty obvious
Yeah -- I think he's pretty much baked in at this point. I've kind of been expecting that we're going to see a Gostkowski deal and a Clayborn cut right around the same time.

If the Patriots do a Tate signing or something like it though I'd guess we're probably looking at a rookie kicker. Hope there's a good one out there!
 

steveluck7

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Using overthecap, I could find about $11.5 million in savings by cutting:
Adrian Clayborn
Lawrence Guy
Brian Hoyer
Nate Ebner
Elandon Roberts

also Gronk extension would net them about 6 million or so.
A Brady extension could also net the another 10 but he can't be restructured until August (365 day rule)

Greg Bedard was just on with Felger and Mazz and he is very bearish about the Pats cap situation
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Using overthecap, I could find about $11.5 million in savings by cutting:
Adrian Clayborn
Lawrence Guy
Brian Hoyer
Nate Ebner
Elandon Roberts

also Gronk extension would net them about 6 million or so.
A Brady extension could also net the another 10 but he can't be restructured until August (365 day rule)

Greg Bedard was just on with Felger and Mazz and he is very bearish about the Pats cap situation
Just a few points and then I'll STFU, since I'm posting too much and take everyone's comments off air.

1) The cap savings on those 5 cuts actually is about $8.8 million because you have to factor back in the next man up.
2) Someone (redoctober?) demonstrated that brady can be restructured at any time.
3) It will be hard to get more than $5 million out of Brady unless he does us a massive favor but I'm hoping.

Edit: 9.2, not 8.8
 

RedOctober3829

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Using overthecap, I could find about $11.5 million in savings by cutting:
Adrian Clayborn
Lawrence Guy
Brian Hoyer
Nate Ebner
Elandon Roberts

also Gronk extension would net them about 6 million or so.
A Brady extension could also net the another 10 but he can't be restructured until August (365 day rule)

Greg Bedard was just on with Felger and Mazz and he is very bearish about the Pats cap situation
A Brady extension will not net a $10 million savings. $5 million at best. Also, he can get extended at any time because he did not get more money in his last restructure.
 

steveluck7

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A Brady extension will not net a $10 million savings. $5 million at best. Also, he can get extended at any time because he did not get more money in his last restructure.
Bedard addressed this because it was his thought as well and said that someone in the org. "who would know"told him that the 365 day rule does apply to Brady
 

Saints Rest

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They don't need much for the draft. They need money to start the season though. September 1 is when the rule of 51 goes away and all your practice players start to count.

With the signings yesterday, they don't have much room. They'd have to give Tate a big signing bonus and postpone most of the money to future years. Still, just looking at some of the deals, it's going to be at least $6 million or so next year unless they get really creative. Also, they lose a comp pick. My guess is that this isn't going to happen, but if it does, there must be something going on behind the scenes on a restructure or something that we don't know about.

Do you think there's any chance that Brady is getting ready to do something crazy? I mean, if the guy came out and said, "I'll play for $10 million a year in 2020 and 2021 if you give me a no trade clause" or something like that, all of the sudden, the Patriots can do anything. But I can't believe he would actually do that. He's a $28 million player. But, who knows? If he decides this team is his best chance for whatever he has left then maybe he just says "fuck it, I have enough money." His agent would never go for it and the league would lose its mind but it's kind of a very special circumstance and maybe, just maybe?
I too have often wondered why Brady wouldn't say "I've made $300M in my career, my wife brings in $30M/year, a few million in salary means nothing to me. But adding a 7th or 8th Super Bowl would be worth every penny I give up. So, Bill, put me down for the vet minimum and spend the rest on whatever you think is best to add more RINGS to my world!"
I know the union would freak out, but is there anything they can do?

Using overthecap, I could find about $11.5 million in savings by cutting:
Adrian Clayborn
Lawrence Guy
Brian Hoyer
Nate Ebner
Elandon Roberts

also Gronk extension would net them about 6 million or so.
A Brady extension could also net the another 10 but he can't be restructured until August (365 day rule)

Greg Bedard was just on with Felger and Mazz and he is very bearish about the Pats cap situation
I agree with you on Clayborn, completely disagree on Guy, and think the other three are unlikely but they wouldn't shock me. Now come training camp, perhaps one or more of those latter three could end up being cuts, but not today.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Bedard addressed this because it was his thought as well and said that someone in the org. "who would know"told him that the 365 day rule does apply to Brady
As I understand it the issue is this: Does adding incentives, which were NLTBE and which in fact were not actually earned, constitute new money for purposes of the CBA prohibition on a second restructure of a vet contract within 12 months? My reading says no but it's clear as mud. Maybe Bedard does have a source.

Ok, carry on, now I'll STFU.
 

steveluck7

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I agree with you on Clayborn, completely disagree on Guy, and think the other three are unlikely but they wouldn't shock me. Now come training camp, perhaps one or more of those latter three could end up being cuts, but not today.
I should have been more clear. the intent of my post was to demonstrate the cap constraints the team has. Cutting those 5 guys would "only" net a max of $11 million (less, as pointed out in subsequent posts thanks to the rule of 51). I wasn't advocating getting rid of them. I just picked non-star players making "real" money who would provide "real" cap savings if cut
 

Brand Name

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I'd guess we're probably looking at a rookie kicker. Hope there's a good one out there!
Cole Tracy from LSU/Assumption is probably the best pure guy in years, no mechanical issues, solid in kickoffs but he's no Ghost in that regard, probably the only one I'd want from this class.

My silver, for however you see this, is John Baron II from San Diego State is solid, like his leg strength (5/5 from 50+) but am not as sold on his consistency overall.
 

bagwell1

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For those that seem to have 2019 cap space angst, from an estimate looking at the 2019 contracts on OTC, I would say the Pats could create a minimum of 35M in space not counting Brady and not cutting anybody. The Brady expected restructure will help replenish the "in season bank" so I didn't include that one.

And please remember, the 2019 cap hit for any free agent can be fairly minimal if necessary.
 

DrewDawg

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It may not be official yet pending physical. Looking on this guy's timeline it's apparent he would have a source inside the Steelers. But until somebody bigger than him says this, then it's not official.
That dude is now saying the Steelers will sign Justin Houston.