2019 Patriots: Post-SB Roster Thread

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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If I remember, the club option means when you decline it, they become free agents -and- will count as part of your compensatory formula, as opposed to just cutting a player. So a two year contract that includes an option year basically lets you spread out the signing bonus, but will not cost you a compensatory pick if you decline the option instead of just cutting them.

See:

http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/front-office/2018/04/05/three-ways-fix-compensatory-picks/

So the structure in this case may be more about giving them a shot at picking up a low-round compensatory pick NEXT year instead...
Ah -- ok, got it. Interesting. I think there's also some kind of concept where if a player qualifies for the minimum salary cap relief for veterans benefit, then it can also affect the comp formula. But after some googling I really couldn't find anything other than stuff explaining the cap benefit for low salary vets, but not anything about comp pick affect.

E.g.: http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/78757/mailbag-veteran-minimum-salary-benefit
 

SMU_Sox

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And you also don't want to be flush up against the cap because stuff happens in camp and in season and you need to be able to add guys then, too. They usually want to enter the season with $6ish MM cap space. So they don't even have the full $12 MM to work with.
Good point.

Yep, I love it. He's a perfect 4th RB for the team - he can fill either RB role (not well, but in a "break glass in case of emergency" kind of way) and he's a good STer.

It is surreal to me to see Belichick invest in ST every year, wax philosophic about how important ST play is, see the team steal a game or two on ST every year, have unprecedented success, and for people here (and elsewhere) to treat Belichick's special teams obsession as a bug rather than a feature. It's one of the reasons they win, you guys.
Bolden is more a Ramon Humber replacement, not a Jeremy Hill replacement, and he's more valuable in the locker room (not disparaging Humber as a teammate in any way).
I made that mistake yesterday looking at ST guys as potential cuts because the potential cut list is thin. The good news there is I don't think they have any truly bad contracts. Even High for what he is and how he performs is not drastically overpaid considering he was a FA. High also has a chunk of (5m+) dead cap and frees up only 5. I like the Bolden signing and the Simon re-sign. Simon is good depth. I look forward to more of these types of moves with the cap situation as it is.

Seems though even if they can get JAG minimums to fill out the roster it is going to be a lot of pray the young can play.

Jon Jones being protected with a 2nd is interesting because I would imagine some teams might be interested and they don't necessarily have the dollars to compete. Hope he stays... DB and depth for 2019 on the Pats is v good even if they could use a depth corner and safety and some guys are aging.
 

DavidTai

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Ah -- ok, got it. Interesting. I think there's also some kind of concept where if a player qualifies for the minimum salary cap relief for veterans benefit, then it can also affect the comp formula. But after some googling I really couldn't find anything other than stuff explaining the cap benefit for low salary vets, but not anything about comp pick affect.

E.g.: http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/78757/mailbag-veteran-minimum-salary-benefit
If compensatory picks are based on average salary, and are limited to 32 picks, then I suspect minimum salary people would fall way, way, way, under the threshhold needed to qualify for one of those 32 picks.
 

bagwell1

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fyi, overthecap.com tracks the 2020 comp pick cancelation charts as the signings happen and they are usually pretty good at predicting the actual picks.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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If compensatory picks are based on average salary, and are limited to 32 picks, then I suspect minimum salary people would fall way, way, way, under the threshhold needed to qualify for one of those 32 picks.
According to OTC there are years where vet minimum contracts qualified to grant or negate compensatory picks.

But in 2013, the signing of Philip Wheeler counted against Oakland despite only making the veteran minimum of $700,000 at the time. Perhaps it could have been explained by the fact that he played 98.5% of the snaps on defense in 2012. But in 2014 there were several qualifying low value players that played much less. The most stark example was Brian Leonard qualifying in favor for Cincinnati on a veteran minimum of $715,000 despite only playing in 28.1% of the offensive snaps in 2013. Similarly, Mike Pollak qualified against Cincinnati on a minimum salary benefit contract of $780,000 despite only appearing in 32.4% of 2013’s offensive snaps.
Bolden's vet minimum for next year should be $920,000. I think there's the chance that will qualify. Most years it wouldn't but some years it would. I think the idea of the vet minimum benefit is that if they structure it to qualify, he would only count for salary cap and comp qualification at the lower number.

https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

fyi, overthecap.com tracks the 2020 comp pick cancelation charts as the signings happen and they are usually pretty good at predicting the actual picks.
I think it will be more meaningful in a few months when we have a better sense of what the qualifying salaries will likely be. Right now Bolden cancels out Rowe but that could change.
 

boca

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CB Jason McCourty back to the #Patriots on a two-year deal, source says.
 

DavidTai

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I think it will be more meaningful in a few months when we have a better sense of what the qualifying salaries will likely be. Right now Bolden cancels out Rowe but that could change.
You're right, I think you're making a good case for why Bolden might qualify.

Could they be upping the signing bonus and adding the option year just enough to make him qualify for the compensation pick -and- the minimum salary credit?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Could they be upping the signing bonus and adding the option year just enough to make him qualify for the compensation pick -and- the minimum salary credit?
That's kind of what I'm wondering, but the mechanics are very difficult to understand. I can't seem to find a good discussion on google of the relation between the veteran minimum relief rules and the comp pick formulas.
 

DourDoerr

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Enjoyed this immensely. Glad to see Bolden back - and they say no one likes playing under BB.

Like the Simon re-signing for depth. Solid 28 year old guy whose performance might have an uptick due to the combo of better coaching and greater experience/wisdom. Will be sweating J. Jones and hoping someone doesn't grab him. It's been said before, but BB's confidence in his player evaluations and belief that he can draft/trade his way out of a hole is the ace up his sleeve. Every year, the entire NFL panics in free agency and he rolls on with letting prime players go because of the future roster cost and NOBODY learns from it. Not even DC's who are just a year removed from the brain trust. Just amazing.
 

E5 Yaz

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You're using scare quotes like that's not true. The Pats--like basically every single team--dedicate a couple of slots to special teams coverage guys every single one and Bolden is pretty good at that job. And if they find a running back out of slippery rock who can do the special teams and carry the ball a little better, I'm sure they'd be comfortable cutting Bolden.
It wasn't scare quotes." It was quoting the pertinent part of the tweet
 

RedOctober3829

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If the Giants are in complete tear down mode, would it be worth it to reach out to them about TE Evan Engrem? I've liked him ever since he came out of Ole Miss. He's had some injury issues, but is the prototypical flex TE. He has 2 years left on his rookie deal plus his 5th year option.
 

Mooch

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Tyrell Williams is reportedly signing with the Raiders. Sounds like Jordy Nelson might get cut. I'd love to see the Pats kick the tires on the cheap. He was sneakily good down the stretch last year.
 

BaseballJones

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Tyrell Williams is reportedly signing with the Raiders. Sounds like Jordy Nelson might get cut. I'd love to see the Pats kick the tires on the cheap. He was sneakily good down the stretch last year.
The Raiders get AB and now Tyrell Williams....Carr now has some nice weapons with which to work.
 

tims4wins

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Tyrell Williams is reportedly signing with the Raiders. Sounds like Jordy Nelson might get cut. I'd love to see the Pats kick the tires on the cheap. He was sneakily good down the stretch last year.
Yeah I had no idea he was good - last 5 games 38 catches on 48 targets for 386. Not the same downfield threat he once was but... he could help, on the cheap.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Seahawks signing Jason Myers. So, two of the top 3 free agent kickers are off the board and Butker is tendered and Lutz extended.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Gostkowski is coming back. Unless we hear in the next day or so that the Bears gave him funny money or something.
 

tims4wins

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Seahawks signing Jason Myers. So, two of the top 3 free agent kickers are off the board and Butler is tendered and Lutz extended.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Gostkowski is coming back. Unless we hear in the next day or so that the Bears gave him funny money or something.
Or the J-E-T-S
 

soxhop411

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Seahawks signing Jason Myers. So, two of the top 3 free agent kickers are off the board and Butker is tendered and Lutz extended.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Gostkowski is coming back. Unless we hear in the next day or so that the Bears gave him funny money or something.

Bears already signed an excellent kicker. Blewitt
 

j44thor

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Curious why people are concerned about a team signing Jonathan Jones.
Wouldn't a 2nd rd pick be great value for your 3rd/4th CB? He played well in the playoffs but I'd rather have JC Jackson and the recent track record is NE has been able to grow CBs on trees. Better than just about any other position.
 

BigSoxFan

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Curious why people are concerned about a team signing Jonathan Jones.
Wouldn't a 2nd rd pick be great value for your 3rd/4th CB? He played well in the playoffs but I'd rather have JC Jackson and the recent track record is NE has been able to grow CBs on trees. Better than just about any other position.
I’m not concerned. I would actively be rooting for it to happen. Don’t think anyone bites though. 2nd round pick is too much for him.
 

nattysez

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Jared Cook was a solid blocking TE early in his career and was Carr's security blanket last year. I'd love to see him with the Pats if the price is reasonable.
 

dcmissle

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He had a 6.95 3 cone drill at Cal pro day back in 2016. Had a solid season for the Skins last year and has size. Might be someone the Pats are interested in.
28 catches, 304 yards for a thin and injury riddled receiving corps. At most we’re talking about backup for what we already have.
 

SMU_Sox

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I’m not concerned. I would actively be rooting for it to happen. Don’t think anyone bites though. 2nd round pick is too much for him.
Yeah this.
I am torn on this. Jones is versatile and a good corner. I think he might even grow more in this system. He's a guy I would consider keeping long term. He can even play safety. Might they consider moving him there long term? He is also athletic. He's a huge ST contributor too.

A 2nd rounder though is nice compensation if you weren't going to sign him long term (it would let you move up and still have a huge day 2 haul).
But in a vacuum I think I prefer keeping Jones and considering a long term contract if it makes sense. He seems like a Pats kind of player though, right? Athletic, positionally versatile, and plays on special teams.
 

SMU_Sox

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Jonathan Jones had the 4th highest snap counts on ST last year and played 50% of defensive snaps. I am reading Gridiron Genius and Jones is one of those 3 or 4 down types BB covets because of his availability on ST. He's a guy some of us were talking about as being sorely missed in a huge game just a year ago.

2nd round picks are great. They are even better now when you see the available prospects and assume, with the rosiest glasses, how each of their gold jacket careers will unfold with the Pats. I'm exaggerating a bit and I am absolutely just as guilty about doing this. Fully admit that. But the more I think about it the more I'd rather keep Jones.

Edit: I'm a Buchholz. His being tendered at a 2nd round is indicative to some degree of his value to BB. That is getting close to circular logic a bit but I think it is just further proof of what Lombardi wrote about.
 

BigSoxFan

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I am torn on this. Jones is versatile and a good corner. I think he might even grow more in this system. He's a guy I would consider keeping long term. He can even play safety. Might they consider moving him there long term? He is also athletic. He's a huge ST contributor too.

A 2nd rounder though is nice compensation if you weren't going to sign him long term (it would let you move up and still have a huge day 2 haul).
But in a vacuum I think I prefer keeping Jones and considering a long term contract if it makes sense. He seems like a Pats kind of player though, right? Athletic, positionally versatile, and plays on special teams.
He’s a good player and certainly very valuable but with Gilmore, J-Mac, Jackson, Dawson, Crossen, and 2019 draft/UDFA additions, I think I might rather have the 2nd round pick. His performance against Hill was eye opening for me and I wouldn’t love to see him go but I want more draft capital to build the other areas of the team, specifically the DL, WR, S, and TE.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Seahawks signing Jason Myers. So, two of the top 3 free agent kickers are off the board and Butker is tendered and Lutz extended.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Gostkowski is coming back. Unless we hear in the next day or so that the Bears gave him funny money or something.
Colts? I've seen that play before...
 

Super Nomario

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Jared Cook was a solid blocking TE early in his career and was Carr's security blanket last year. I'd love to see him with the Pats if the price is reasonable.
Are you confusing him with someone else? Early in his career he was considered a tight end in name only and always paired with an actual blocking TE. He came out as a spread TE that was basically a big slot WR.

Edit: I'm a Buchholz. His being tendered at a 2nd round is indicative to some degree of his value to BB. That is getting close to circular logic a bit but I think it is just further proof of what Lombardi wrote about.
I wouldn't read too much into the second-round tender. If Belichick had given Jones an original round tender, since Jones was undrafted, the Patriots would receive zero compensation if he signed elsewhere. Had there been more granular options (3rd, 4th, 5th round tenders) we don't know what Belichick would have chosen (well, we know he wouldn't have chosen 5th). But the only options are 1st, 2nd, and original round.

I agree with you that he's a useful player that has been effective on special teams and shown development as a defensive player. I probably still side with the second but I think your position is reasonable.
 

mcpickl

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If the Giants are rebuilding, what would it take to get Sterling Shephard? He's on the last year of his rookie contract.
This is the guy I'd be trying to get as well.

A Giants teardown could make him available for the right draft pick compensation.
 

alydar

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Curious why people are concerned about a team signing Jonathan Jones.
Wouldn't a 2nd rd pick be great value for your 3rd/4th CB? He played well in the playoffs but I'd rather have JC Jackson and the recent track record is NE has been able to grow CBs on trees. Better than just about any other position.

The circa 2013 version of myself would not believe this thought
 

DJnVa

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28 catches, 304 yards for a thin and injury riddled receiving corps. At most we’re talking about backup for what we already have.
We have no receivers on roster except Edelman. And Slater.