2019 Off season -- Add a superstar, or subtract one?

benhogan

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LA is one ping pong bounce from having the best single asset available in this sweepstakes.

And man, this board is something else. Jayson Tatum is either worse than Danny Green, or worth AD in a trade.

edit: Holy shit, I didn't realize LA ended up at 11 in the lottery...oops and haha.
The answer is JT is worth AD...lovegtm is correct

I love me some Danny Green, great pick up by Toronto. BUT some people need to go examine what he has done in these playoffs so far (see attached). He hasn't played better or scored more than Kyrie's supporting cast did.

Doesn't really matter because you can't compare Kyrie to Kawhi, they aren't even close. Defense matters a lot (esp. in the playoffs). Kawhi's ability to shut down multiple position players and Kyrie's inability to cover anyone is HUGE. Looking forward to seeing if Kawhi, Siakam and Ibaka can slow down Giannis.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3988/danny-green

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/4065648/jayson-tatum

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3917376/jaylen-brown

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3213/al-horford
 

lovegtm

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I'm warming to the idea of trading for AD even with Kyrie gone. The league perception of Tatum is high (even after these playoffs), and I think there's a chance you're selling high.

But the really big factor for me is that with Kyrie out the door, Griffin wouldn't have Danny over a barrel. Danny would be negotiating from a pure value standpoint, and would likely be able to keep most/all picks, unless an AD-wanting team gets Zion, or Toronto goes with a Siakam+ package.

The real win would then be if you could somehow shoehorn Jrue into the deal, but that probably doesn't work unless you can S&T Kyrie for a big expiring or give up a pick to trade him into air for a TPE, which might be palatable to the acquiring team in some situations. The Celtics would be ludicrously good on D in that scenario, while getting a real PG.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I'm really surprised people are defending Kyrie and trying to blame his supporting cast for this series. He didn't just get shut down on offense, he was an abomination on defense - and that had nothing to do with who he was playing with or what Milwaukee was doing. He did not make an effort to play within the defensive scheme, nor to dig in at all on defense. He was a complete joke.

He has been better than that in the past, and could be better than that again next year, but he should own the disaster of the performance he just gave.

And trust me, I think there's plenty of blame to go around for that debacle, it's not all on Kyrie. But for his part, he was garbage on both ends of the floor.
I am not apologizing for Kyrie's defense. However, those saying that his struggles this past series were the result of something other than the Bucks focusing on shutting him down while living with other Celtics players trying to score clearly saw an entirely different matchup than me. Its plain to me that if the Cs had more consistent scoring, they would have been far more competitive.

If the Cs don't get more scoring, either via an acquisition or organically, a trade for Davis (with Kyrie gone) will have them in roughly the same spot. They will be a decent regular season team who can be slowed in the playoffs when teams look to take away the opposition's best weapon.

Regarding Kyrie's defense, he has always been terrible to passable (when he is engaged). There is no way to sugarcoat it.
 

jon abbey

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Wasn’t the 2010 Celtics/Cavs series the one with the Delonte West slept with LeBron’s mom and he found out rumors?
 

benhogan

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I'm warming to the idea of trading for AD even with Kyrie gone. The league perception of Tatum is high (even after these playoffs), and I think there's a chance you're selling high.

But the really big factor for me is that with Kyrie out the door, Griffin wouldn't have Danny over a barrel. Danny would be negotiating from a pure value standpoint, and would likely be able to keep most/all picks, unless an AD-wanting team gets Zion, or Toronto goes with a Siakam+ package.

The real win would then be if you could somehow shoehorn Jrue into the deal, but that probably doesn't work unless you can S&T Kyrie for a big expiring or give up a pick to trade him into air for a TPE, which might be palatable to the acquiring team in some situations. The Celtics would be ludicrously good on D in that scenario, while getting a real PG.
An AD/Horford duo does have me salivating, they will own the defensive paint and challenge/alter perimeter 3s. Also watching Smart/Hayward tossing lobs to AD would be enjoyable.

BUT wouldn't we have to wait a year (July 1, 2020) to sign him to a MAX?
I don't trust Lebron/Klutch at all.

agreed, getting Jrue with AD would be awesome. Tatum/Hayward/Yabu/TL/draft picks gets that done. BUT dealing Hayward is a non-starter around here

I'd love to see Holiday/Smart/Brown/AD/Horford play a Durant/Irving led Knicks team.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Maybe I don't understand DA correctly but if I do, I'm not sure this is all that complicated. We know first above everything that DA is all about assets and upgrades. He accumulates assets and then when available, he tries to upgrade his assets as he apparently recognizes that you can't win in the NBA without superstars.

So first and foremost, it is a no-brainer to me that DA will try to retain Kyrie. No matter what anyone thinks about him, the one undisputable fact is that at the current time, Kyrie is the best player that the Cs have.

I think the other indisputable fact that other than AD Kyrie is the best player that the Cs have any reasonable chance of acquiring at this moment.

Second, I'm not saying anything earthshaking but I think DA makes a hard run at AD whether or not Kyrie is around. I don't know if Kyrie being around is going to influence his offer, but AD is an upgrade and DA is going to pursue him.

Given that DA is rumored to have offered 4 (or so) first round draft picks for Justice Winslow, I can only imagine what he's going to offer for AD but I hope it's not both JT and JB.

If neither KI nor AD are here, DA doesn't have any choice but to hope that JB or JT (or maybe TL) makes a huge leap. But in the interim, DA will certainly be in on every superstar available. What else is he going to do?

We all want what DA wants - superstar talent. Maybe Kyrie didn't play like a superstar against MIL but at this point, there's no one else on BOS that demands a double-team.
 

the moops

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Tatum (or Brown) plus Smart, plus the Memphis pick, the Sac pick, and whatever else...for one year of AD
There is no way that it takes all that to get a guy who has one year left on his deal. No chance. Look at past history of guys who were traded with one year on their deal and the combo of players/picks comes nowhere near that. The MEM pick (assuming it down not convey) is just about, if not the most, valuable pick out there.
 

nighthob

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There is no way that it takes all that to get a guy who has one year left on his deal. No chance. Look at past history of guys who were traded with one year on their deal and the combo of players/picks comes nowhere near that. The MEM pick (assuming it down not convey) is just about, if not the most, valuable pick out there.
The problem is the salaries once you factor in the trade kicker. Boston, due to its long term plan, has no filler salaries on the roster (now, had Rozier signed that extension this wouldn’t be an issue). Practically speaking the only way to not move Hayward or Horford is to move Smart.

If you had Irving on a five year deal, it’s one thing. But right now it looks like a roster gutting move that has franchise killing potential if Davis walks in the summer of 2020.
 

the moops

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I wasn't talking about the Smart portion of the deal. I love Marcus, but if he is needed for salary filler, sign me up for a Brown + Smart deal. I was more talking about the valuable MEM pick
 

BaseballJones

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I think that for the next couple of seasons, their best shot at winning a championship is by adding Davis, re-signing Kyrie, and rolling with a Kyrie/Smart/Hayward/Davis/whomever lineup. I'm assuming Al would need to be traded for salary purposes in the AD deal. But I don't really know. Either way, I think pairing Davis with Kyrie is the best idea for the short term. And honestly, both are young enough so that they might be the most viable option for the next 7-8 years as well.

But...

I don't know what the future holds for those two. I don't know that you can make a deal guaranteeing they both stick around that long. And it's still a little hard to know how Kyrie would respond to being the 1A guy again, like he was with LeBron. He didn't like that last time, but AD is definitely the better player, even if Kyrie might not see it that way. But regardless, these two represent the most elite talent the Celtics would have had in quite a while.

That said...

I think I could be sold on a future without either of them. Kyrie walks. AD doesn't get dealt. I think that Brown and Tatum are given the room to grow into big time stars, which I think they're both capable of being. Not elite, all-NBA superstars, but 20-24 ppg kind of stars. There's still lots of time to go before either of them hits their primes. Add in Time Lord and some of these new draft picks (hopefully!) and that's a pretty good core.

My thinking is this: Every team wants to acquire talent and make a run at a championship. The vast majority of teams try this and fail. Here's the franchises that have won NBA titles in the past 10 years:

Golden State (3)
Miami (2)
LA Lakers (2)
San Antonio (1)
Cleveland (1)
Dallas (1)

Six teams. There are a ton of teams with elite NBA talent that have never won a championship. For example:

Boston (Kyrie/Hayward)
OKC (Westbrook/George)
Houston (Harden/Paul)
Milwaukee (Giannis/Middleton) - we shall see about this year
Toronto (DeRozan/Lowry or Kawhi/Lowry) - again, we shall see about this year
Portland (Lillard/McCollum) - maybe this year
New Orleans (Davis)
LA Clippers (Paul/Griffin/Jordan)

I mean, teams try and try and most fail to achieve the ultimate goal. And when they fail, it's usually back to the drawing board for a messy rebuild.

The Celtics gave it a two-year run with Kyrie and Hayward. Unfortunately, year 1 they had a great year but injuries took those two stars out of the mix. This year, they were worse even though they were healthy. If they said, "Well, we tried" and let Kyrie walk, they'd be in rebuild mode. But their rebuild mode would still feature a bunch of very very good NBA talent, some of which might be on the cusp of stardom themselves. So if this is a 2-3 year rebuild, this young core is as good a way to do the rebuild as I can imagine.
 

nighthob

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I mean if the Nets can unload Crabbe they have the ability to add Irving and Durant, and they already have a pretty good supporting cast. They could even try packaging Russell and Crabbe to a team with cap space for more supporting cast types to put around Irving and Durant.

This summer is going to be fascinating with all the A Listers on the market looking for their own new superteams.
 

cheech13

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Wasn't sure which thread to put this in, but the Wizards have offered their GM position to Tim Connelly of the Nuggets, per Shams.


Sources with @davidaldridgedc @fredkatz: The Washington Wizards are offering their head front-office job to Denver Nuggets president Tim Connelly. Connelly toured Wizards' practice facility today in meeting.

Bad news for the Nuggets if he takes it as he's done a phenomenal job putting together the current team. Also not good in that he's the second GM in a row being poached by an Eastern Conference team after the Raptors snagged Masai Ujiri back in 2013.
 

benhogan

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I mean if the Nets can unload Crabbe they have the ability to add Irving and Durant, and they already have a pretty good supporting cast. They could even try packaging Russell and Crabbe to a team with cap space for more supporting cast types to put around Irving and Durant.

This summer is going to be fascinating with all the A Listers on the market looking for their own new superteams.
If Kyrie indicates to Danny that he's off to the Nets with Durant, is a sign and trade with the Celtics getting something back (Crabbe & Russell???) a possibility?
 

JakeRae

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The problem is the salaries once you factor in the trade kicker. Boston, due to its long term plan, has no filler salaries on the roster (now, had Rozier signed that extension this wouldn’t be an issue). Practically speaking the only way to not move Hayward or Horford is to move Smart.
This simply isn’t true. The Celtics have numerous players that they can sign and trade to create space. They can also do this as part of a 3 team deal.

The most obvious way this makes sense is with Rozier. Rozier goes and finds his contract, say, 4/64 (numbers don’t really matter for purposes of his example as the focus is mechanics). Rozier agrees to a sign and trade that sends him to his new home with the benefit to Rozier and the acquiring team of Boston expressly walking away from its RFA rights. Boston gets an extra $8 million they can now count as outgoing salary. Boston could theoretically do this with other players too, but Rozier is the main option for a deal where everyone wins and where Boston has the leverage to extract this deal.
 

lovegtm

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If Kyrie indicates to Danny that he's off to the Nets with Durant, is a sign and trade with the Celtics getting something back (Crabbe & Russell???) a possibility?
They could, the problem is that that’s selling really low on Russell, and the Nets could probably get rid of Crabbe for a lottery protected first rounder or so.
 

nighthob

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If Kyrie indicates to Danny that he's off to the Nets with Durant, is a sign and trade with the Celtics getting something back (Crabbe & Russell???) a possibility?
No, Russell's an RFA, just like Rozier. A sign & trade for Crabbe and a #1 would be more likely.
 

nighthob

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This simply isn’t true. The Celtics have numerous players that they can sign and trade to create space. They can also do this as part of a 3 team deal.
The draft could throw a huge wet blanket on the proceedings if Chicago and Phoenix come out of it with PGs. I sincerely doubt the Pelicans want a backup PG for the kind of money necessary, and then there's the Morris situation (the other guy you'd need to play ball).

Now we're at a complicated four team deal to make it work, presuming the trade partners could be found. Of course Hayward to Indiana for a couple of low first round picks to be added to Tatum in a Tatum for Davis swap is easier to manage. And about the only way I'd feel good about losing Tatum in what's nigh on certain to be a one year rental that will come with this year's level of malaise. Because then they'd at least have Brown, the Memphis pick, and whatever they get in trade for Kyrie to build around.
 
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Carmine Hose

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It would be a fitting FU to the Celts from the Nets if they signed away Kyrie and effectively ended the turnaround started with the Jason Terry trade. I say effectively, because without Kyrie, there is no AD and maybe no Horford, and the we re-start and hope Memphis gets top 6 next year and wins the Lottery in 2021.
 

nighthob

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As for the last point, the 20 draft pool is pretty good, so even a mid lottery pick next year is a good building block. A guy like Theo Maledon might go a long way to easing the pain of the Irving loss.

As for the first point, if Irving walking prevents them from emptying the cupboard in an AD deal there's a non-zero chance that Boston is saved from making their own version of the Pierce/Garnett debacle (only in this case it's not the star to be placated being done so much as emptying the cupboard for a player that won't stay leading to a full teardown in the summer of 2020). At the very least if Irving walks Boston very likely treats the deal as a pure rental and bids appropriately.
 

benhogan

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They could, the problem is that that’s selling really low on Russell, and the Nets could probably get rid of Crabbe for a lottery protected first rounder or so.
Agreed, the Nets will want to keep Russell

Crabbe/Harris/draft pick and then the Celts turn that around for Mike Conley? or the Celtics could turn that Nets package around to the Hornets as a Kemba sign and trade?

Less than 1% chance of happening but looking to get something out of a Kyriexit
 

DrewDawg

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I say effectively, because without Kyrie, there is no AD and maybe no Horford, and the we re-start and hope Memphis gets top 6 next year and wins the Lottery in 2021.
Objection--stipulating facts not in evidence.

In fact, in the stories we've heard, Ainge will still pursue AD without Irving.
 

Carmine Hose

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Objection--stipulating facts not in evidence.

In fact, in the stories we've heard, Ainge will still pursue AD without Irving.
And that would be exacerbating the Kyrie folly, except this time he'd be giving away better assets (Tatum, Smart, MEM pick) than he gave for Kyrie, and get only one year of Davis (instead of the two he got from Kyrie).
 

BigSoxFan

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The draft could throw a huge wet blanket on the proceedings if Chicago and Phoenix come out of it with PGs. I sincerely doubt the Pelicans want a backup PG for the kind of money necessary, and then there's the Morris situation (the other guy you'd need to play ball).

Now we're at a complicated four team deal to make it work, presuming the trade partners could be found. Of course Hayward to Indiana for a couple of low first round picks to be added to Tatum in a Tatum for Davis swap is easier to manage. And about the only way I'd feel good about losing Tatum in what's nigh on certain to be a one year rental that will come with this year's level of malaise. Because then they'd at least have Brown, the Memphis pick, and whatever they get in trade for Kyrie to build around.
Bulls and Suns are both right in Garland/White range. Will be interesting. We’ve long speculated Orlando and they seem like a possible spot still.
 

DrewDawg

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And that would be exacerbating the Kyrie folly, except this time he'd be giving away better assets (Tatum, Smart, MEM pick) than he gave for Kyrie, and get only one year of Davis (instead of the two he got from Kyrie).
Ainge wanted AD long before Kyrie became available. Nothing has changed. I understand your point, but you're saying they won't go after AD if Kyrie leaves, and I have yet to see that anywhere.
 

nighthob

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Bulls and Suns are both right in Garland/White range. Will be interesting. We’ve long speculated Orlando and they seem like a possible spot still.
It would be hilarious to see a Rozier for Fultz swap and Fultz finally get over his mental/physical issues here. The other issue is the possibility of a Ball for #7 deal, which also takes Chicago out of the market for Rozier.
 

lovegtm

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Agreed, the Nets will want to keep Russell

Crabbe/Harris/draft pick and then the Celts turn that around for Mike Conley? or the Celtics could turn that Nets package around to the Hornets as a Kemba sign and trade?

Less than 1% chance of happening but looking to get something out of a Kyriexit
That’s actually not a bad idea—you can sub any high-priced guy whose salary the Cs currently can’t match for Conley. It’s hard for me to see the Nets doing an in-conference deal for the usual reasons, but there’s probably a version there that works for them.

If the Celtics had matching salary, they’d be a really good trading partner for Conley-type teams, since their mid to low first rounders this year go a much longer way in those deals. You’d have to know Kyrie’s plans pre-draft so that you can draft for the trade partner, but it seems likely they’ll know by then.
 

benhogan

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That’s actually not a bad idea—you can sub any high-priced guy whose salary the Cs currently can’t match for Conley. It’s hard for me to see the Nets doing an in-conference deal for the usual reasons, but there’s probably a version there that works for them.

If the Celtics had matching salary, they’d be a really good trading partner for Conley-type teams, since their mid to low first rounders this year go a much longer way in those deals. You’d have to know Kyrie’s plans pre-draft so that you can draft for the trade partner, but it seems likely they’ll know by then.
Good point, the Nets would be more inclined to deal with the Warriors in a sign & trade.

Any chance Kyrie starts working on Kyriexit with Danny a week before? That would be helpful if he is committed to walking OR will he be like screw 'em they are the competition now?
 

mcpickl

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I mean if the Nets can unload Crabbe they have the ability to add Irving and Durant, and they already have a pretty good supporting cast. They could even try packaging Russell and Crabbe to a team with cap space for more supporting cast types to put around Irving and Durant.

This summer is going to be fascinating with all the A Listers on the market looking for their own new superteams.
How would this even come close to working?

Kyrie and KD max contracts will be around 71M combined assuming a cap of around 109M.

Even if they dump all of their non-guaranteed guys, and their guys on cap holds including RHJ and Russell, and get out from under Crabbe while adding zero salary, they'd be at about 106M with just KD, Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Harris, Levert, Allen, Musa and Kurucs.

If they're signing Kyrie and KD into cap space, there is no realistic way of them adding much of anything else, even assuming they can get someone to take Crabbe off their hands.
 

lovegtm

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Good point, the Nets would be more inclined to deal with the Warriors in a sign & trade.

Any chance Kyrie starts working on Kyriexit with Danny a week before? That would be helpful if he is committed to walking OR will he be like screw 'em they are the competition now?
No clue re Kyrie’s thoughts. From the outside though, he seems like the type who could be manipulated into feeling bad and doing a favor as as a result.
 

mcpickl

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This simply isn’t true. The Celtics have numerous players that they can sign and trade to create space. They can also do this as part of a 3 team deal.

The most obvious way this makes sense is with Rozier. Rozier goes and finds his contract, say, 4/64 (numbers don’t really matter for purposes of his example as the focus is mechanics). Rozier agrees to a sign and trade that sends him to his new home with the benefit to Rozier and the acquiring team of Boston expressly walking away from its RFA rights. Boston gets an extra $8 million they can now count as outgoing salary. Boston could theoretically do this with other players too, but Rozier is the main option for a deal where everyone wins and where Boston has the leverage to extract this deal.
They'd probably front load this as well to make the cap hit higher in year one for matching purposes. They could start it around 17.5M in this example of 4/64 and with maximum decreases get to around that number. At that point just Rozier+Tatum+Yabusele would be able to get you a match with a player making around 25M. To get to Anthony Davis with his trade kicker, they'd need to get to a bit over 31M. They would have a few ways to get there. They could sign their draft picks going in the trade and wait 30 days to make a trade official. Could overpay one of Theis/Morris(possibly Jonathan Gibson not sure on him) and include them. If Baynes opts in he could be included.

The biggest part is Rozier and New Orleans being interested in each other. If they are, the Celtics can make a deal without other salaries they want to keep being included.
 

JakeRae

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They'd probably front load this as well to make the cap hit higher in year one for matching purposes. They could start it around 17.5M in this example of 4/64 and with maximum decreases get to around that number. At that point just Rozier+Tatum+Yabusele would be able to get you a match with a player making around 25M. To get to Anthony Davis with his trade kicker, they'd need to get to a bit over 31M. They would have a few ways to get there. They could sign their draft picks going in the trade and wait 30 days to make a trade official. Could overpay one of Theis/Morris(possibly Jonathan Gibson not sure on him) and include them. If Baynes opts in he could be included.

The biggest part is Rozier and New Orleans being interested in each other. If they are, the Celtics can make a deal without other salaries they want to keep being included.
You’re missing the point. Rozier doesn’t need to go to New Orleans. He can go anywhere with cap space as long as it’s done via sign and trade in a simultaneous trade. They probably cannot do this along with signing and trading draft picks for timing reasons, but where Rozier ends up doesn’t matter as long as he’s willing to let Boston use his salary to match in exchange for Boston letting him shop himself without the risks of RFA status weighing down his offers.
 

nighthob

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How would this even come close to working?
The Pacers have been rumored to have interest in Russell, so a Russell/Crabbe deal fits into their available cap space. Brooklyn gets back someone like Sabonis and possibly a first, while the Pacers get the secondary scorer to pair with Oladipo.

Chicago drafts someone like Coby White with their #1, they'd like a capable backup/emergency starter to smooth White's transition, they get Dinwiddie and a first for a second rounder.

If Brooklyn wanted to maintain their caphold on RHJ that would cause a squeeze as they'd have an active payroll around $32-$33 million including D-Will's dead money charge and assuming they pick up Napier and Graham. but without them they're around $24 million. Add in three draft picks (≈ $3.5 million for 16 & 27, plus whatever they pay #31), Sabonis at around $3.5 million and four empty roster slot charges. That puts them at around $36 million. Plenty of space.

If they can get Golden State to accept Crabbe and picks in a sign & trade, leaving them free to deal Russell with RHJ, they can take back some roleplayers and draft picks that fit their timeline better. It's not that hard for them to do.

You’re missing the point. Rozier doesn’t need to go to New Orleans. He can go anywhere with cap space as long as it’s done via sign and trade in a simultaneous trade. They probably cannot do this along with signing and trading draft picks for timing reasons, but where Rozier ends up doesn’t matter as long as he’s willing to let Boston use his salary to match in exchange for Boston letting him shop himself without the risks of RFA status weighing down his offers.
The problem is the amount that someone has to pay Rozier to make it work for Boston. With the real possibility that the two teams with the biggest need today might not have a need for him in a month.
 

nighthob

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No clue re Kyrie’s thoughts. From the outside though, he seems like the type who could be manipulated into feeling bad and doing a favor as as a result.
I've never heard that Ainge has had anything but a good relationship with 24/7, so if Irving is walking I could see his agency agreeing to do Ainge a solid in order to maintain a good working relationship and working to make the exit for a second round pick to keep everyone happy.
 

benhogan

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How would this even come close to working?

Kyrie and KD max contracts will be around 71M combined assuming a cap of around 109M.

Even if they dump all of their non-guaranteed guys, and their guys on cap holds including RHJ and Russell, and get out from under Crabbe while adding zero salary, they'd be at about 106M with just KD, Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Harris, Levert, Allen, Musa and Kurucs.

If they're signing Kyrie and KD into cap space, there is no realistic way of them adding much of anything else, even assuming they can get someone to take Crabbe off their hands.
If they dealt Dinwiddie off and retained Napier that would save them ~$9MM to give the Nets some flexibility to add ring chasers around Kyrie/Durant. Maybe Joe Harris ($7.6MM) is someone they trade for a cheaper, usable player to save more $$$.

a few questions for the cap wizards around here:
1. Lots of moving parts but if Jay Z convinced Ky/KD to pair up in Brooklyn, I'd think they'd jump at it, even if it meant gutting a lot of the roster, right?
OR
do you think Brooklyn can't conceivably add those two?

2. What would the C's likely want or get from a Kyrexit S&T:
trade ballast? future draft pick? trade exception? or a usable player (ie Harris or Dinwiddie)? nothing?
 
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JCizzle

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If they dealt Dinwiddie off and retained Napier that would save them ~$9MM to give the Nets some flexibility to add ring chasers around Kyrie/Durant. Maybe Joe Harris ($7.6MM) is someone they trade for a cheaper, usable player to save more $$$.

a few questions for the cap wizards around here:
1. Lots of moving parts but if Jay Z convinced Ky/KD to pair up in Brooklyn, I'd think they'd jump at it, even if it meant gutting a lot of the roster, right?
OR
do you think Brooklyn can't conceivably add those two?

2. What would the C's likely want or get from a Kyrexit S&T:
trade ballast? future draft pick? trade exception? or a usable player (ie Harris or Dinwiddie)? nothing?
Three first round pick swaps starting in a couple years sounds good to me ;)
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
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If they dealt Dinwiddie off and retained Napier that would save them ~$9MM to give the Nets some flexibility to add ring chasers around Kyrie/Durant. Maybe Joe Harris ($7.6MM) is someone they trade for a cheaper, usable player to save more $$$.

a few questions for the cap wizards around here:
1. Lots of moving parts but if Jay Z convinced Ky/KD to pair up in Brooklyn, I'd think they'd jump at it, even if it meant gutting a lot of the roster, right?
OR
do you think Brooklyn can't conceivably add those two?

2. What would the C's likely want or get from a Kyrexit S&T:
trade ballast? future draft pick? trade exception? or a usable player (ie Harris or Dinwiddie)? nothing?
If Jay Z convinced them it's pretty easily doable. People are convinced that it will be hard for the Nets to pay someone to eat $18.5 million of Crabbe but think that teams will be lining up to overpay Rozier by a third on a four year deal. I just don't think it's all that difficult given that it's a one year deal.

As for Boston I could see them trying to get Dinwiddie in a sign & trade, as that makes sense from a positional perspective. But the one way to get the Nets to cooperate is to offer to eat the Crabbe themselves (because Dinwiddie has real trade value for the Nets, unlike Crabbe) in exchange for a draftpick or two.
 

Big John

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I'd love to see Dinwiddie on the Celtics. They should also look into bringing back Shane Larkin, who has been killing it in Euroleague.
 

the moops

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Chicago drafts someone like Coby White with their #1, they'd like a capable backup/emergency starter to smooth White's transition, they get Dinwiddie and a first for a second rounder.
I must be reading this wrong. CHI gets Dinwiddie and a 1st and they just give up a 2nd round pick? Dinwiddie just had a breakout year and is singed to a great contract
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The Shane Larkin love around here is exactly what I was getting at with TJ McConnell. He plays hard, seems like a good team guy but each is essentially unplayable except vs opposing benches during the regular season and during garbage time. Its amusing that people pine for what amounts to the last spot on the bench.
 

nighthob

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I would not be opposed to the Clippers pursuing the Durant/Irving pairing, as at least Boston can work a sign & trade there and come out in not horrible shape afterwards.

I must be reading this wrong. CHI gets Dinwiddie and a 1st and they just give up a 2nd round pick? Dinwiddie just had a breakout year and is singed to a great contract
Within the context of the Nets having to quickly generate $71 million in cap space, yes. Then they would likely have to pay a premium to lose the Crabbe and Dunwiddie contracts so that they can use Russell in trade without tying him to one of those deals. Being able to move Russell to Indiana for Sabonis and picks or Atlanta for Prince and picks has some real value for them.
 

the moops

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But they could move Dinwiddie quite easily without having to attach an asset to him. He and his contract is an asset. They likely could get a protected 1st for him alone, nevermind having to attach a 1st to him
 

nighthob

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But they could move Dinwiddie quite easily without having to attach an asset to him. He and his contract is an asset. They likely could get a protected 1st for him alone, nevermind having to attach a 1st to him
Right, I mentioned that repeatedly in other posts, that their preference in signing Irving would be to just move Dinwiddie elsewhere outright for a pick since his contract is priced appropriately for a mere rotation player.

I was just answering a thought experiment question where someone stated that the Nets couldn't possibly produce the necessary cap space for Irving/Durant. I was just demonstrating that it was actually pretty easy.
 

Big John

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Dec 9, 2016
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The Shane Larkin love around here is exactly what I was getting at with TJ McConnell. He plays hard, seems like a good team guy but each is essentially unplayable except vs opposing benches during the regular season and during garbage time. Its amusing that people pine for what amounts to the last spot on the bench.
Are you kidding? As Rozier replacement? Sign me up.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/879474/shane-larkin-posts-best-ever-final-four-performance/